https://sierranewsonline.com/hiking-on-the-savage-lundy-trail/

It looked quite different before the fire in 2018.

I think you can search for the Savage-Lundy trail too, it came up on Google Earth or Bing, one of them, and you could see the switchbacks, etc.

The thing that is so hard to understand is they had to FEEL the heat increasing as they went down the HC trail. They had to SEE how deep the canyon was. People are often not good at judging risk or re-evaluating or integrating new info once a decision has been reached and maybe that goes to part of how this played out. Also, I think they may have been more afraid of the algae caution whereas the river and staying near it may have been safest for the humans until the sun was off the switchbacks. Algae can and does kill dogs and I'm not sure how feasible keeping him away from the water would be in that heat.

I think they overestimated their ability and underestimated the heat. The IG "all the gear and no idear" post struck me re: a prior close call they had, that one at altitude. I don't think either was overly cautious, they often did "spontaneous hikes" pre-baby. When he looked up the trail did he even read the reviews from spring that referenced heat? Or did it not register because they had decided to go and he was just determining the trail location?

So sad.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not sure why the link wouldn't click through...

https://earth.app.goo.gl/orK4Dn

Great work, PP. It’s really pretty down there, which helps with understanding why they chose that particular trail, as well as crazy steep to get out in any direction.

Thanks, it's given me a much better understanding of what they were actually facing.
Thanks for the suggestion.

One additional note...

I just searched where a hiker would park if they wanted to hike through Devil's Gulch, and the National Park Service listed their Scott Road location in Mariposa as the site that hikers should park their cars & sign in (so the rangers know if you don't return from your hike).

Admittedly, I don't know if they parked their car there OR because they were locals, they may have known a secret out of the way spot to park?
Some of you may know the answer to that?

But if... again *IF* they did park at the Scott Road check in site, the photo below would give an estimate of how far they would have been to their truck.

* Context: looking at this map in the number of miles "as the crow flies" means absolutely nothing in this situation -- having to navigate all of those dangerous switchbacks, means that the car may as well have been 20 miles away. 😕

* DG = Devil's Gulch (where the bodies were found).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if they could have survived had they tried to stay near the water, or make shade with their clothes, and waited it out. After sunset it would have been cooler and they could have tried to hike out. If worse came to worse and they ran out of water, they could have drunk the river water or their own urine.

Maybe unless one of them was suffering from heat stroke. If one of them had heat stroke then drinking water wouldn’t help. They would need to immediately lower core body temperature. I don’t know if that river is cold enough for that.

Weren’t they found with water left in their canteens? I remember seeing that early on. Perhaps they weren’t having symptoms of needing to drink?

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if they could have survived had they tried to stay near the water, or make shade with their clothes, and waited it out. After sunset it would have been cooler and they could have tried to hike out. If worse came to worse and they ran out of water, they could have drunk the river water or their own urine.

Maybe unless one of them was suffering from heat stroke. If one of them had heat stroke then drinking water wouldn’t help. They would need to immediately lower core body temperature. I don’t know if that river is cold enough for that.

I wonder if they could have survived had they tried to stay near the water, or make shade with their clothes, and waited it out. After sunset it would have been cooler and they could have tried to hike out. If worse came to worse and they ran out of water, they could have drunk the river water or their own urine.

Anonymous wrote:
Not sure why the link wouldn't click through...

https://earth.app.goo.gl/orK4Dn

Great work, PP. It’s really pretty down there, which helps with understanding why they chose that particular trail, as well as crazy steep to get out in any direction.

And here's the distance between Hite's Cove & Devil's Gulch.

Not sure why the link wouldn't click through...

https://earth.app.goo.gl/orK4Dn

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They were on a deserted 8 mile trail/mountain with a dog and baby in 110 degree heat. It's obviously heat related. Stop with your fanfiction nonsense. Y'all sound like idiots.

It is not obvious, farm and construction workers are out all day in the same conditions and rarely die. Not only that, it is extremely strange for two healthy people to die in close proximity (time and location) to each other from heat conditions.

https://twitter.com/UFWupdates/status/1421199094610071554?s=20

People rarely die of heatstroke in national parks. As for construction workers, it is a known hazard, and workers still die.

https://www.safeopedia.com/summertime-roadwork-and-heat-stroke/2/6023

Never makes the news though.

But not all of them at the same time. If one had succumbed, the other would have gone for help. This is so obvious. It was FA/murder suicide. I guarantee this is why we are no hearing anything more. It's sad and obviously nobody wants that to be made public.

Once you both are at the bottom of the hill, it doesn't matter if one turns back. Neither was making it up the hill in those conditions. Especially someone without water.

For people who are unfamiliar, take a look at the SL trail using Google Earth. When the change in elevation requires switchbacks to get up the trail, it is steep. And in 109+ degree heat and direct sun, might as well have been Everest. The truck was so close but much too far, tragically.

Christ on a cracker!
I had never looked at their trail on Google earth, but did just now... those switchbacks are insane. 😱

In full sun, with temps over 109 in Devil's Gulch, they sadly could not make it up. Not only was the sun baking down (tree cover having burned in 2018 fire) but the canyon was radiating up heat. It had to be brutal.

Days later, SAR dogs had to be pulled because they were burning their paws on the trail and one LE was overcome by heat on Wednesday morning, Sunday afternoon was hotter. LE also had difficulty with satellite phones where the bodies were found so I'm not even certain a PLB would have worked. They had to hike up higher to get a signal.

That canyon is deep and once you go down to the bottom it is going to be hell getting back out. On AllTrails many of the reviews from spring months mention the heat in the canyon. Devil's Gulch appears to be aptly named.

Wow, thanks so much for all of that detail.
I had no idea how arduous it would've been to get back to the truck, thanks for suggesting Google Earth.

Like most people, I had imagined in my mind what I thought their trail probably looked like, but seeing it on Google Earth was shocking and NOTHING like I imagined.
It really put into perspective the daunting nature of what they were dealing with.

I imagine none of their families knew they were taking these seriously dangerous hikes with the baby, because once look at Google Earth would've made me TERRIFIED for my grandchild, no matter how experienced of a hiker my child was.

There's a big difference between the heat a toddler can tolerate and the heat an adult can tolerate.... devil's gulch indeed.

I went one step further on Google Earth.
Obviously you can't see Devil's Gulch close up, because there are no roads to see a POV from, so I clicked on a photo sphere (those little blue bubbles) at Hite Cove, which is part of Devil's Gulch with a creek running through it, and the 360 degree views look super, super intimidating.
It gives you a feel of what it would be like to attempt a hike out of there, almost a straight vertical up.

I'm sweating just looking at it.

Sorry, meant to add that if anyone wants to see this POV, just search Devil's Gulch hiking trail in California, then click the little cartoon figure that's right above 2D or 3D.

Click on one of the blue bubbles you see that's closest to Devil's Gulch.

Can you post link please? I couldn’t find it in Google search.

Ok, so just to give you an idea how arduous Devil's Gulch is... there are NO photos from inside of it on Google Earth.

This photo shows you the distance between Hite Cove & Devil's Gulch, and Hite's Cove is the closest I could get to Devil's Gulch with a 360° view (so they're close, but not THAT close).




Here's the link with the 360° from Hite's Cove.

https://earth.app.goo.gl/orK4Dn

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They were on a deserted 8 mile trail/mountain with a dog and baby in 110 degree heat. It's obviously heat related. Stop with your fanfiction nonsense. Y'all sound like idiots.

It is not obvious, farm and construction workers are out all day in the same conditions and rarely die. Not only that, it is extremely strange for two healthy people to die in close proximity (time and location) to each other from heat conditions.

https://twitter.com/UFWupdates/status/1421199094610071554?s=20

People rarely die of heatstroke in national parks. As for construction workers, it is a known hazard, and workers still die.

https://www.safeopedia.com/summertime-roadwork-and-heat-stroke/2/6023

Never makes the news though.

But not all of them at the same time. If one had succumbed, the other would have gone for help. This is so obvious. It was FA/murder suicide. I guarantee this is why we are no hearing anything more. It's sad and obviously nobody wants that to be made public.

Once you both are at the bottom of the hill, it doesn't matter if one turns back. Neither was making it up the hill in those conditions. Especially someone without water.

For people who are unfamiliar, take a look at the SL trail using Google Earth. When the change in elevation requires switchbacks to get up the trail, it is steep. And in 109+ degree heat and direct sun, might as well have been Everest. The truck was so close but much too far, tragically.

Christ on a cracker!
I had never looked at their trail on Google earth, but did just now... those switchbacks are insane. 😱

In full sun, with temps over 109 in Devil's Gulch, they sadly could not make it up. Not only was the sun baking down (tree cover having burned in 2018 fire) but the canyon was radiating up heat. It had to be brutal.

Days later, SAR dogs had to be pulled because they were burning their paws on the trail and one LE was overcome by heat on Wednesday morning, Sunday afternoon was hotter. LE also had difficulty with satellite phones where the bodies were found so I'm not even certain a PLB would have worked. They had to hike up higher to get a signal.

That canyon is deep and once you go down to the bottom it is going to be hell getting back out. On AllTrails many of the reviews from spring months mention the heat in the canyon. Devil's Gulch appears to be aptly named.

Wow, thanks so much for all of that detail.
I had no idea how arduous it would've been to get back to the truck, thanks for suggesting Google Earth.

Like most people, I had imagined in my mind what I thought their trail probably looked like, but seeing it on Google Earth was shocking and NOTHING like I imagined.
It really put into perspective the daunting nature of what they were dealing with.

I imagine none of their families knew they were taking these seriously dangerous hikes with the baby, because once look at Google Earth would've made me TERRIFIED for my grandchild, no matter how experienced of a hiker my child was.

There's a big difference between the heat a toddler can tolerate and the heat an adult can tolerate.... devil's gulch indeed.

I went one step further on Google Earth.
Obviously you can't see Devil's Gulch close up, because there are no roads to see a POV from, so I clicked on a photo sphere (those little blue bubbles) at Hite Cove, which is part of Devil's Gulch with a creek running through it, and the 360 degree views look super, super intimidating.
It gives you a feel of what it would be like to attempt a hike out of there, almost a straight vertical up.

I'm sweating just looking at it.

Sorry, meant to add that if anyone wants to see this POV, just search Devil's Gulch hiking trail in California, then click the little cartoon figure that's right above 2D or 3D.

Click on one of the blue bubbles you see that's closest to Devil's Gulch.

Can you post link please? I couldn’t find it in Google search.

Sure, give me a minute.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They were on a deserted 8 mile trail/mountain with a dog and baby in 110 degree heat. It's obviously heat related. Stop with your fanfiction nonsense. Y'all sound like idiots.

It is not obvious, farm and construction workers are out all day in the same conditions and rarely die. Not only that, it is extremely strange for two healthy people to die in close proximity (time and location) to each other from heat conditions.

https://twitter.com/UFWupdates/status/1421199094610071554?s=20

People rarely die of heatstroke in national parks. As for construction workers, it is a known hazard, and workers still die.

https://www.safeopedia.com/summertime-roadwork-and-heat-stroke/2/6023

Never makes the news though.

But not all of them at the same time. If one had succumbed, the other would have gone for help. This is so obvious. It was FA/murder suicide. I guarantee this is why we are no hearing anything more. It's sad and obviously nobody wants that to be made public.

Once you both are at the bottom of the hill, it doesn't matter if one turns back. Neither was making it up the hill in those conditions. Especially someone without water.

For people who are unfamiliar, take a look at the SL trail using Google Earth. When the change in elevation requires switchbacks to get up the trail, it is steep. And in 109+ degree heat and direct sun, might as well have been Everest. The truck was so close but much too far, tragically.

Christ on a cracker!
I had never looked at their trail on Google earth, but did just now... those switchbacks are insane. 😱

In full sun, with temps over 109 in Devil's Gulch, they sadly could not make it up. Not only was the sun baking down (tree cover having burned in 2018 fire) but the canyon was radiating up heat. It had to be brutal.

Days later, SAR dogs had to be pulled because they were burning their paws on the trail and one LE was overcome by heat on Wednesday morning, Sunday afternoon was hotter. LE also had difficulty with satellite phones where the bodies were found so I'm not even certain a PLB would have worked. They had to hike up higher to get a signal.

That canyon is deep and once you go down to the bottom it is going to be hell getting back out. On AllTrails many of the reviews from spring months mention the heat in the canyon. Devil's Gulch appears to be aptly named.

Wow, thanks so much for all of that detail.
I had no idea how arduous it would've been to get back to the truck, thanks for suggesting Google Earth.

Like most people, I had imagined in my mind what I thought their trail probably looked like, but seeing it on Google Earth was shocking and NOTHING like I imagined.
It really put into perspective the daunting nature of what they were dealing with.

I imagine none of their families knew they were taking these seriously dangerous hikes with the baby, because once look at Google Earth would've made me TERRIFIED for my grandchild, no matter how experienced of a hiker my child was.

There's a big difference between the heat a toddler can tolerate and the heat an adult can tolerate.... devil's gulch indeed.

I went one step further on Google Earth.
Obviously you can't see Devil's Gulch close up, because there are no roads to see a POV from, so I clicked on a photo sphere (those little blue bubbles) at Hite Cove, which is part of Devil's Gulch with a creek running through it, and the 360 degree views look super, super intimidating.
It gives you a feel of what it would be like to attempt a hike out of there, almost a straight vertical up.

I'm sweating just looking at it.

Sorry, meant to add that if anyone wants to see this POV, just search Devil's Gulch hiking trail in California, then click the little cartoon figure that's right above 2D or 3D.

Click on one of the blue bubbles you see that's closest to Devil's Gulch.

Can you post link please? I couldn’t find it in Google search.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They were on a deserted 8 mile trail/mountain with a dog and baby in 110 degree heat. It's obviously heat related. Stop with your fanfiction nonsense. Y'all sound like idiots.

It is not obvious, farm and construction workers are out all day in the same conditions and rarely die. Not only that, it is extremely strange for two healthy people to die in close proximity (time and location) to each other from heat conditions.

https://twitter.com/UFWupdates/status/1421199094610071554?s=20

People rarely die of heatstroke in national parks. As for construction workers, it is a known hazard, and workers still die.

https://www.safeopedia.com/summertime-roadwork-and-heat-stroke/2/6023

Never makes the news though.

But not all of them at the same time. If one had succumbed, the other would have gone for help. This is so obvious. It was FA/murder suicide. I guarantee this is why we are no hearing anything more. It's sad and obviously nobody wants that to be made public.

Once you both are at the bottom of the hill, it doesn't matter if one turns back. Neither was making it up the hill in those conditions. Especially someone without water.

For people who are unfamiliar, take a look at the SL trail using Google Earth. When the change in elevation requires switchbacks to get up the trail, it is steep. And in 109+ degree heat and direct sun, might as well have been Everest. The truck was so close but much too far, tragically.

Christ on a cracker!
I had never looked at their trail on Google earth, but did just now... those switchbacks are insane. 😱

In full sun, with temps over 109 in Devil's Gulch, they sadly could not make it up. Not only was the sun baking down (tree cover having burned in 2018 fire) but the canyon was radiating up heat. It had to be brutal.

Days later, SAR dogs had to be pulled because they were burning their paws on the trail and one LE was overcome by heat on Wednesday morning, Sunday afternoon was hotter. LE also had difficulty with satellite phones where the bodies were found so I'm not even certain a PLB would have worked. They had to hike up higher to get a signal.

That canyon is deep and once you go down to the bottom it is going to be hell getting back out. On AllTrails many of the reviews from spring months mention the heat in the canyon. Devil's Gulch appears to be aptly named.

Wow, thanks so much for all of that detail.
I had no idea how arduous it would've been to get back to the truck, thanks for suggesting Google Earth.

Like most people, I had imagined in my mind what I thought their trail probably looked like, but seeing it on Google Earth was shocking and NOTHING like I imagined.
It really put into perspective the daunting nature of what they were dealing with.

I imagine none of their families knew they were taking these seriously dangerous hikes with the baby, because once look at Google Earth would've made me TERRIFIED for my grandchild, no matter how experienced of a hiker my child was.

There's a big difference between the heat a toddler can tolerate and the heat an adult can tolerate.... devil's gulch indeed.

I went one step further on Google Earth.
Obviously you can't see Devil's Gulch close up, because there are no roads to see a POV from, so I clicked on a photo sphere (those little blue bubbles) at Hite Cove, which is part of Devil's Gulch with a creek running through it, and the 360 degree views look super, super intimidating.
It gives you a feel of what it would be like to attempt a hike out of there, almost a straight vertical up.

I'm sweating just looking at it.

Sorry, meant to add that if anyone wants to see this POV, just search Devil's Gulch hiking trail in California, then click the little cartoon figure that's right above 2D or 3D.

Click on one of the blue bubbles you see that's closest to Devil's Gulch.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They were on a deserted 8 mile trail/mountain with a dog and baby in 110 degree heat. It's obviously heat related. Stop with your fanfiction nonsense. Y'all sound like idiots.

It is not obvious, farm and construction workers are out all day in the same conditions and rarely die. Not only that, it is extremely strange for two healthy people to die in close proximity (time and location) to each other from heat conditions.

https://twitter.com/UFWupdates/status/1421199094610071554?s=20

People rarely die of heatstroke in national parks. As for construction workers, it is a known hazard, and workers still die.

https://www.safeopedia.com/summertime-roadwork-and-heat-stroke/2/6023

Never makes the news though.

But not all of them at the same time. If one had succumbed, the other would have gone for help. This is so obvious. It was FA/murder suicide. I guarantee this is why we are no hearing anything more. It's sad and obviously nobody wants that to be made public.

Once you both are at the bottom of the hill, it doesn't matter if one turns back. Neither was making it up the hill in those conditions. Especially someone without water.

For people who are unfamiliar, take a look at the SL trail using Google Earth. When the change in elevation requires switchbacks to get up the trail, it is steep. And in 109+ degree heat and direct sun, might as well have been Everest. The truck was so close but much too far, tragically.

Christ on a cracker!
I had never looked at their trail on Google earth, but did just now... those switchbacks are insane. 😱

In full sun, with temps over 109 in Devil's Gulch, they sadly could not make it up. Not only was the sun baking down (tree cover having burned in 2018 fire) but the canyon was radiating up heat. It had to be brutal.

Days later, SAR dogs had to be pulled because they were burning their paws on the trail and one LE was overcome by heat on Wednesday morning, Sunday afternoon was hotter. LE also had difficulty with satellite phones where the bodies were found so I'm not even certain a PLB would have worked. They had to hike up higher to get a signal.

That canyon is deep and once you go down to the bottom it is going to be hell getting back out. On AllTrails many of the reviews from spring months mention the heat in the canyon. Devil's Gulch appears to be aptly named.

Wow, thanks so much for all of that detail.
I had no idea how arduous it would've been to get back to the truck, thanks for suggesting Google Earth.

Like most people, I had imagined in my mind what I thought their trail probably looked like, but seeing it on Google Earth was shocking and NOTHING like I imagined.
It really put into perspective the daunting nature of what they were dealing with.

I imagine none of their families knew they were taking these seriously dangerous hikes with the baby, because once look at Google Earth would've made me TERRIFIED for my grandchild, no matter how experienced of a hiker my child was.

There's a big difference between the heat a toddler can tolerate and the heat an adult can tolerate.... devil's gulch indeed.

I went one step further on Google Earth.
Obviously you can't see Devil's Gulch close up, because there are no roads to see a POV from, so I clicked on a photo sphere (those little blue bubbles) at Hite Cove, which is part of Devil's Gulch with a creek running through it, and the 360 degree views look super, super intimidating.
It gives you a feel of what it would be like to attempt a hike out of there, almost a straight vertical up.

I'm sweating just looking at it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They were on a deserted 8 mile trail/mountain with a dog and baby in 110 degree heat. It's obviously heat related. Stop with your fanfiction nonsense. Y'all sound like idiots.

It is not obvious, farm and construction workers are out all day in the same conditions and rarely die. Not only that, it is extremely strange for two healthy people to die in close proximity (time and location) to each other from heat conditions.

https://twitter.com/UFWupdates/status/1421199094610071554?s=20

People rarely die of heatstroke in national parks. As for construction workers, it is a known hazard, and workers still die.

https://www.safeopedia.com/summertime-roadwork-and-heat-stroke/2/6023

Never makes the news though.

But not all of them at the same time. If one had succumbed, the other would have gone for help. This is so obvious. It was FA/murder suicide. I guarantee this is why we are no hearing anything more. It's sad and obviously nobody wants that to be made public.

Once you both are at the bottom of the hill, it doesn't matter if one turns back. Neither was making it up the hill in those conditions. Especially someone without water.

For people who are unfamiliar, take a look at the SL trail using Google Earth. When the change in elevation requires switchbacks to get up the trail, it is steep. And in 109+ degree heat and direct sun, might as well have been Everest. The truck was so close but much too far, tragically.

Christ on a cracker!
I had never looked at their trail on Google earth, but did just now... those switchbacks are insane. 😱

In full sun, with temps over 109 in Devil's Gulch, they sadly could not make it up. Not only was the sun baking down (tree cover having burned in 2018 fire) but the canyon was radiating up heat. It had to be brutal.

Days later, SAR dogs had to be pulled because they were burning their paws on the trail and one LE was overcome by heat on Wednesday morning, Sunday afternoon was hotter. LE also had difficulty with satellite phones where the bodies were found so I'm not even certain a PLB would have worked. They had to hike up higher to get a signal.

That canyon is deep and once you go down to the bottom it is going to be hell getting back out. On AllTrails many of the reviews from spring months mention the heat in the canyon. Devil's Gulch appears to be aptly named.

Wow, thanks so much for all of that detail.
I had no idea how arduous it would've been to get back to the truck, thanks for suggesting Google Earth.

Like most people, I had imagined in my mind what I thought their trail probably looked like, but seeing it on Google Earth was shocking and NOTHING like I imagined.
It really put into perspective the daunting nature of what they were dealing with.

I imagine none of their families knew they were taking these seriously dangerous hikes with the baby, because once look at Google Earth would've made me TERRIFIED for my grandchild, no matter how experienced of a hiker my child was.

There's a big difference between the heat a toddler can tolerate and the heat an adult can tolerate.... devil's gulch indeed.

Or in this case, no difference at all...they all perished.