Anonymous
Post 03/26/2021 23:05     Subject: PSA: Please do not host a Christian seder
Weird that some are citing the Feast of Unleavened Bread as Passover. They’re not the same thing: https://www.ancient.eu/article/1363/passover-in-the-hebrew-bible/

Passover is a Jewish festival celebrated since at least the 5th century BCE, typically associated with the tradition of Moses leading the Israelites out of Egypt. According to historical evidence and modern-day practice, the festival was originally celebrated on the 14th of Nissan. Directly after Passover is the Festival of Unleavened Bread, which most traditions describe as originating when the Israelites left Egypt and they did not have sufficient time to add yeast to the bread to allow it to rise. Although the Festivals of Passover and Unleavened Bread are closely associated, this article will focus primarily on Passover.
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2021 23:00     Subject: PSA: Please do not host a Christian seder
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’m not aware of Jewish families celebrating Christmas.

Interfaith families? Sure.

But loads of Jewish families putting up a Christmas tree and going to Mass?

Yeah ... no.


The example was a Hanukkah tree, not going to mass—which only applies to a small percentage of Christians. I live in the DMV and I know several Jewish families with Hanukkah trees.





Arguing t

Ok and ... ?

A Christmas tree isn’t religious. Neither is a Hanukkah bush or whatever.


A Christmas tree is absolutely religious. It’s something that originated hundreds of years ago in Europe abd has become very much a religious symbol —- kind of like how a Seder didn’t start until the Middle Ages and has now become ingrained in Jewish culture.




Not at all the same thing.

Christmas trees started out in pagan festivals.

The Passover holiday has always been sacred. Never secular.


You lose credibility when you disparage others religious symbols, while asking for respect for your own...

Regardless, both seders and Christmas trees originated in Europe hundreds of years ago. However, Passover is in the Christian Bible. It very explicitly describes the unleavened bread, wine, lamb, etc. That is part of Christianity. I’m sorry you don’t like it.



Seders did not originate in Europe! What the hell are you talking about?

The modern Seder originated with Rabbinical Judaism. The main tenets of our Haggadah were set by about 500-600 CE.


And lest you need a citation for that: https://reformjudaism.org/jewish-holidays/passover/passover-history

Celebrated in various ways throughout history, Passover incorporates remnants of ancient spring harvest festivals. When the Temple existed, the holiday was one of three major festivals that required pilgrimages to Jerusalem to bring sacrifices. After the destruction of the Second Temple, Passover became a more communal, home-centered holiday, with the Haggadah and the seder as we know them mostly finalized around 500-600 C.E.

Yeah ... not Europe.
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2021 22:58     Subject: PSA: Please do not host a Christian seder
Also, how am I disparaging the Christmas tree by saying it has pagan origins? That’s a fact.
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2021 22:58     Subject: PSA: Please do not host a Christian seder
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’m not aware of Jewish families celebrating Christmas.

Interfaith families? Sure.

But loads of Jewish families putting up a Christmas tree and going to Mass?

Yeah ... no.


The example was a Hanukkah tree, not going to mass—which only applies to a small percentage of Christians. I live in the DMV and I know several Jewish families with Hanukkah trees.





Arguing t

Ok and ... ?

A Christmas tree isn’t religious. Neither is a Hanukkah bush or whatever.


A Christmas tree is absolutely religious. It’s something that originated hundreds of years ago in Europe abd has become very much a religious symbol —- kind of like how a Seder didn’t start until the Middle Ages and has now become ingrained in Jewish culture.




Not at all the same thing.

Christmas trees started out in pagan festivals.

The Passover holiday has always been sacred. Never secular.


You lose credibility when you disparage others religious symbols, while asking for respect for your own...

Regardless, both seders and Christmas trees originated in Europe hundreds of years ago. However, Passover is in the Christian Bible. It very explicitly describes the unleavened bread, wine, lamb, etc. That is part of Christianity. I’m sorry you don’t like it.



Seders did not originate in Europe! What the hell are you talking about?

The modern Seder originated with Rabbinical Judaism. The main tenets of our Haggadah were set by about 500-600 CE.
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2021 22:55     Subject: PSA: Please do not host a Christian seder
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Moreover: We’ve been celebrating Passover since before Jesus.

The modern Passover Seder started in rabbinical Judaism, after the Second Temple was destroyed in 70 CE.

But it’s never been secular.


So, atheist Jews who celebrate as a cultural tradition don’t count?


I’m not sure that you understand what being an atheist Jew is.

But more broadly, the history of Passover is nothing like the history of the Christmas Tree, and comparing the two is really ignorant. With one, you’re talking about a secular origin story, and with the other, you’re talking about a sacred history, and some less religious adherents of an ethno-religious group celebrating it. Very different.
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2021 22:51     Subject: PSA: Please do not host a Christian seder
Anonymous wrote:Moreover: We’ve been celebrating Passover since before Jesus.

The modern Passover Seder started in rabbinical Judaism, after the Second Temple was destroyed in 70 CE.

But it’s never been secular.


So, atheist Jews who celebrate as a cultural tradition don’t count?
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2021 22:49     Subject: PSA: Please do not host a Christian seder
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’m not aware of Jewish families celebrating Christmas.

Interfaith families? Sure.

But loads of Jewish families putting up a Christmas tree and going to Mass?

Yeah ... no.


The example was a Hanukkah tree, not going to mass—which only applies to a small percentage of Christians. I live in the DMV and I know several Jewish families with Hanukkah trees.





Arguing t

Ok and ... ?

A Christmas tree isn’t religious. Neither is a Hanukkah bush or whatever.


A Christmas tree is absolutely religious. It’s something that originated hundreds of years ago in Europe abd has become very much a religious symbol —- kind of like how a Seder didn’t start until the Middle Ages and has now become ingrained in Jewish culture.




Not at all the same thing.

Christmas trees started out in pagan festivals.

The Passover holiday has always been sacred. Never secular.


You lose credibility when you disparage others religious symbols, while asking for respect for your own...

Regardless, both seders and Christmas trees originated in Europe hundreds of years ago. However, Passover is in the Christian Bible. It very explicitly describes the unleavened bread, wine, lamb, etc. That is part of Christianity. I’m sorry you don’t like it.

Anonymous
Post 03/26/2021 22:31     Subject: PSA: Please do not host a Christian seder
Moreover: We’ve been celebrating Passover since before Jesus.

The modern Passover Seder started in rabbinical Judaism, after the Second Temple was destroyed in 70 CE.

But it’s never been secular.
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2021 22:29     Subject: PSA: Please do not host a Christian seder
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’m not aware of Jewish families celebrating Christmas.

Interfaith families? Sure.

But loads of Jewish families putting up a Christmas tree and going to Mass?

Yeah ... no.


The example was a Hanukkah tree, not going to mass—which only applies to a small percentage of Christians. I live in the DMV and I know several Jewish families with Hanukkah trees.





Arguing t

Ok and ... ?

A Christmas tree isn’t religious. Neither is a Hanukkah bush or whatever.


A Christmas tree is absolutely religious. It’s something that originated hundreds of years ago in Europe abd has become very much a religious symbol —- kind of like how a Seder didn’t start until the Middle Ages and has now become ingrained in Jewish culture.




Not at all the same thing.

Christmas trees started out in pagan festivals.

The Passover holiday has always been sacred. Never secular.
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2021 22:25     Subject: Re:PSA: Please do not host a Christian seder
You are more than welcome to host my Seder ... it’s a ton of work cooking and cleaning up and super long reading the entire Haggadah. Please come host it for my family of 7.
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2021 22:25     Subject: PSA: Please do not host a Christian seder
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’m not aware of Jewish families celebrating Christmas.

Interfaith families? Sure.

But loads of Jewish families putting up a Christmas tree and going to Mass?

Yeah ... no.


The example was a Hanukkah tree, not going to mass—which only applies to a small percentage of Christians. I live in the DMV and I know several Jewish families with Hanukkah trees.





Arguing t

Ok and ... ?

A Christmas tree isn’t religious. Neither is a Hanukkah bush or whatever.


A Christmas tree is absolutely religious. It’s something that originated hundreds of years ago in Europe abd has become very much a religious symbol —- kind of like how a Seder didn’t start until the Middle Ages and has now become ingrained in Jewish culture.


Anonymous
Post 03/26/2021 22:21     Subject: PSA: Please do not host a Christian seder
None of yours, thanks!
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2021 22:15     Subject: PSA: Please do not host a Christian seder
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’m not aware of Jewish families celebrating Christmas.

Interfaith families? Sure.

But loads of Jewish families putting up a Christmas tree and going to Mass?

Yeah ... no.


The example was a Hanukkah tree, not going to mass—which only applies to a small percentage of Christians. I live in the DMV and I know several Jewish families with Hanukkah trees.





Ok and ... ?

A Christmas tree isn’t religious. Neither is a Hanukkah bush or whatever.
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2021 22:11     Subject: PSA: Please do not host a Christian seder
Anonymous wrote:I’m not aware of Jewish families celebrating Christmas.

Interfaith families? Sure.

But loads of Jewish families putting up a Christmas tree and going to Mass?

Yeah ... no.


The example was a Hanukkah tree, not going to mass—which only applies to a small percentage of Christians. I live in the DMV and I know several Jewish families with Hanukkah trees.



Anonymous
Post 03/26/2021 22:05     Subject: PSA: Please do not host a Christian seder
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Has someone already quoted Luke 22?

The Festival of Unleavened Bread, which is called Passover, was drawing near. 2 The chief priests and the scribes were looking for a way to put Him to death, because they were afraid of the people.

3 Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, who was numbered among the Twelve. 4 He went away and discussed with the chief priests and temple police how he could hand Him over to them. 5 They were glad and agreed to give him silver.[a] 6 So he accepted the offer and started looking for a good opportunity to betray Him to them when the crowd was not present.


That doesn’t make it a Passover Seder. Sorry.

That didn’t exist until rabbinical Judaism.


Ok. I can’t argue with that because I frankly don’t know anything about the religious aspect of Judaism. I just know in this section of the Bible it speaks a lot about Passover meal and killing the Passover lamb. So maybe a Seder is kind of like a developed thing like the African tradition of kwanza?


I don’t know what you mean by “developed thing.”

Jews have been celebrating Passover since the 5th century BCE, but the last supper wasn’t on Passover. A lamb was sacrificed at many Jewish feasts. Doesn’t mean it was a Passover Seder.

Moreover, the Passover Seder as we know it today was developed during rabbinical Judaism, so after the destruction of our second Temple in 70 CE, after which we stopped sacrificing animals.

So you having a Seder like we do isn’t akin to anything that Jesus would’ve done, even if the last supper had been on Passover. Judaism as it was practiced when the First and Second Temples were intact was nothing like it was afterwards.

In short: using matzah, charoset, the egg, or anything else present on the Seder plate to somehow relate things to Jesus is totally inaccurate.

Maybe have a Maudy Thursday service? Lots of ways to note the Last Supper.


The last supper was absolutely on Passover. It’s literally all over the Christian scriptures. Those very same Christian scriptures describe that the lamb discussed was being slaughtered to celebrate the exodus from Egypt.

So you may be right it wasn’t a Seder and maybe it was the pre-Seder time as some people here are asserting (of which I have no idea if they are right) the Christian scripture state unequivocally that the dinner with the unleavened bread and wine etc was for Passover. And it may be an uncomfortable comparison that Christianity borrowed its bread and wine directly from the Jewish faith 2000 years ago.


There’s legitimate scholarly debate about whether Jesus was still alive when Passover actually happened that year.

That said, the Jewish holiday of Passover has nothing to do with Jesus. None whatsoever.

If you want to sacrifice a lamb and call it your homage to Jesus’s Passover, more power to you, but please leave our holiday out of it.



I have an Idea. They can have one day in the Spring when there is a religious ceremony celebrating “Jesus’s passover,” often observed with a big family meal where lamb is served. We can call it Jesus’s Passover. Or maybe ... Easter?


Great idea!