Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Nick being a good guy is wishful thinking. At what point do you imagine he turned spy — before or after he killed Americans and overthrew his own government? I think it’s clear he loves June and regrets his role in creating and maintaining Gilead, but let’s not forget that he was a Gilead soldier long before there was a Gilead. If this show suddenly decides to say “Oh, he was a plant from even before the rebellion,” I will lose it because it’s so very unrealistic and just pandering to viewers who want to think the cute enemy soldier really is a good guy.
I think that Nick was very malleable and apathetic when he was younger. He wanted money to take care of his family, and joined the “cause” in order to do that- a soldier for hire. Once he was in there was no getting out. I hope that his relationship with June changed him. Obviously she sees something more than a moral void in him. I don’t think the show in general presents people as just good or bad, though; most of the characters are morally complicated.
I think there are a lot of identity issues in play as well. Everyone has been brainwashed and manipulated, stripped down to nothing but what Gilead had made them.
Lydia stands out. I don’t think she particularly enjoys her role, but she’s good at it and it’s her identity. What other choice does she have? There is so much psychologically at play, too (Stockholm Syndrome, etc.) What would she do if she left? How difficult would reintegration be, especially considering her past. This sort of forced moral complexity is so interesting to watch.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Samira Wiley’s performance was so strong that I wish they’d gone deeper into her story with her girlfriend in Canada and the aide organization rather than reverse engineering old drama between Luke, June, and Moira.
I don’t care about the GF but agree SW was wonderful. The old drama was dumb and unnecessarily dilated the storyline. Could have been compressed to 1/2 the allotted screen time so we could have seen more action elsewhere. I think this may have been the single worst written episode of the series.
I loved Moira always, but this episode was exceptional. Also, Samira Wiley and her wife just had a baby!
I was so mad that June stole that pitcher. I think that it shows her pettiness at times.
I thought that the pitcher stealing scene actually showed that she really valued her times with Moira.
I really hated the flashbacks in this episode. Dumb, petty, who cares. The convo on the steps with Luke and the baby Hannah flashback would have sufficed perfectly well. Give Moira something better to do.
I think the flashbacks were important to show why June was vehemently against going to Canada. Luke was the one who wanted a baby desperately, and Moira had put the idea in June’s head that she alone wasn’t enough for him, without a baby. Luke and Moira had both complained about June remaining in Gilead, but the truth is they both played a part in that decision.
This is all a new plant because a) there is zero inherent conflict with Luke and b) they need conflict to make it interesting
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Nick being a good guy is wishful thinking. At what point do you imagine he turned spy — before or after he killed Americans and overthrew his own government? I think it’s clear he loves June and regrets his role in creating and maintaining Gilead, but let’s not forget that he was a Gilead soldier long before there was a Gilead. If this show suddenly decides to say “Oh, he was a plant from even before the rebellion,” I will lose it because it’s so very unrealistic and just pandering to viewers who want to think the cute enemy soldier really is a good guy.
I think that Nick was very malleable and apathetic when he was younger. He wanted money to take care of his family, and joined the “cause” in order to do that- a soldier for hire. Once he was in there was no getting out. I hope that his relationship with June changed him. Obviously she sees something more than a moral void in him. I don’t think the show in general presents people as just good or bad, though; most of the characters are morally complicated.
Anonymous wrote:Nick being a good guy is wishful thinking. At what point do you imagine he turned spy — before or after he killed Americans and overthrew his own government? I think it’s clear he loves June and regrets his role in creating and maintaining Gilead, but let’s not forget that he was a Gilead soldier long before there was a Gilead. If this show suddenly decides to say “Oh, he was a plant from even before the rebellion,” I will lose it because it’s so very unrealistic and just pandering to viewers who want to think the cute enemy soldier really is a good guy.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Nick just proves the concept that not all bad men appear to be monsters. He’s just as bad as all the other Gillead supporters. He’s done some terrible things.
But he could be playing the long game. Staying in it and moving up as high as possible to blow Gilead apart. He couldn’t do that if he just fled to Canada.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Nick just proves the concept that not all bad men appear to be monsters. He’s just as bad as all the other Gillead supporters. He’s done some terrible things.
But he could be playing the long game. Staying in it and moving up as high as possible to blow Gilead apart. He couldn’t do that if he just fled to Canada.
Anonymous wrote:Nick just proves the concept that not all bad men appear to be monsters. He’s just as bad as all the other Gillead supporters. He’s done some terrible things.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Has this already been covered?
Was Janine really with June during the blast? Or was June just imagining her there because they had been through so much together.
I think she was there. And as bummed as I was to lose Alma, this was a good move on the writers/showrunner's part. Tightens up the story and adds a new angle.
But speaking of hallucinations, I listened to a podcast where one of the commentators thought the Nick/June scene on the bridge was a hallucination - the light was all dreamy, it seemed out of sequence, etc. I don't know if I buy that, BUT I really need an explanation of who Nick really is in Gilead. He was supposedly Waterford's driver, but was clearly much more than that. Now he's a pretty high-ranking commander. Like, I need some backstory on that.
Kinda hoping to see Agent Truello (or whatever his name is) debriefing June in the next episode. You're going down Waterfords.
I think Nick is a double agent working for the Americans.
Oh, I hope this is right. I really, really want Nick to turn out to be a good guy.
I actually presumed this all along. It never occurred to me that he was loyal to Gilead. I always thought he was a resistance spy.
I always thought he was pretty apolitical. He was kind of wayward when younger, wasn't he, and then taken in and mentored by that older guy? It seemed more like survival or just taking the only path open, but a fundamentally decent guy so didn't buy into the Gilead ideology.
This was my take as well.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Has this already been covered?
Was Janine really with June during the blast? Or was June just imagining her there because they had been through so much together.
I think she was there. And as bummed as I was to lose Alma, this was a good move on the writers/showrunner's part. Tightens up the story and adds a new angle.
But speaking of hallucinations, I listened to a podcast where one of the commentators thought the Nick/June scene on the bridge was a hallucination - the light was all dreamy, it seemed out of sequence, etc. I don't know if I buy that, BUT I really need an explanation of who Nick really is in Gilead. He was supposedly Waterford's driver, but was clearly much more than that. Now he's a pretty high-ranking commander. Like, I need some backstory on that.
Kinda hoping to see Agent Truello (or whatever his name is) debriefing June in the next episode. You're going down Waterfords.
I think Nick is a double agent working for the Americans.
Oh, I hope this is right. I really, really want Nick to turn out to be a good guy.
I actually presumed this all along. It never occurred to me that he was loyal to Gilead. I always thought he was a resistance spy.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I thought this episode was drawn out too, and it seemed like June was a bit psychotic.
I thought the behavior of the CERA humanitarian people (Canadians) was spot on. You know, we are devoting our lives to helping "you" but when one of "you" are actually in front of us needing your life saved, we would sooner throw you overboard than actually get off our butts to try to do something to help you. This is like so many "humanitarians" I've met in real life. No no, let us coldly calculate the cost-benefits of helping you.
What they said was true though, they could help one person or thousands. BTDT.
As it seemed, with very minimal effort, they did both.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Samira Wiley’s performance was so strong that I wish they’d gone deeper into her story with her girlfriend in Canada and the aide organization rather than reverse engineering old drama between Luke, June, and Moira.
I don’t care about the GF but agree SW was wonderful. The old drama was dumb and unnecessarily dilated the storyline. Could have been compressed to 1/2 the allotted screen time so we could have seen more action elsewhere. I think this may have been the single worst written episode of the series.
I loved Moira always, but this episode was exceptional. Also, Samira Wiley and her wife just had a baby!
I was so mad that June stole that pitcher. I think that it shows her pettiness at times.
I thought that the pitcher stealing scene actually showed that she really valued her times with Moira.
I really hated the flashbacks in this episode. Dumb, petty, who cares. The convo on the steps with Luke and the baby Hannah flashback would have sufficed perfectly well. Give Moira something better to do.
I think the flashbacks were important to show why June was vehemently against going to Canada. Luke was the one who wanted a baby desperately, and Moira had put the idea in June’s head that she alone wasn’t enough for him, without a baby. Luke and Moira had both complained about June remaining in Gilead, but the truth is they both played a part in that decision.
This is all a new plant because a) there is zero inherent conflict with Luke and b) they need conflict to make it interesting
June sent that tape telling Luke that Nicole's father was Nick and that she loved both Luke and Nick.
Yes, and yet Luke was totally chill and started raising the child of June and Nick. So....zerio conflictio
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I thought this episode was drawn out too, and it seemed like June was a bit psychotic.
I thought the behavior of the CERA humanitarian people (Canadians) was spot on. You know, we are devoting our lives to helping "you" but when one of "you" are actually in front of us needing your life saved, we would sooner throw you overboard than actually get off our butts to try to do something to help you. This is like so many "humanitarians" I've met in real life. No no, let us coldly calculate the cost-benefits of helping you.
What they said was true though, they could help one person or thousands. BTDT.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Samira Wiley’s performance was so strong that I wish they’d gone deeper into her story with her girlfriend in Canada and the aide organization rather than reverse engineering old drama between Luke, June, and Moira.
I don’t care about the GF but agree SW was wonderful. The old drama was dumb and unnecessarily dilated the storyline. Could have been compressed to 1/2 the allotted screen time so we could have seen more action elsewhere. I think this may have been the single worst written episode of the series.
I loved Moira always, but this episode was exceptional. Also, Samira Wiley and her wife just had a baby!
I was so mad that June stole that pitcher. I think that it shows her pettiness at times.
I thought that the pitcher stealing scene actually showed that she really valued her times with Moira.
I really hated the flashbacks in this episode. Dumb, petty, who cares. The convo on the steps with Luke and the baby Hannah flashback would have sufficed perfectly well. Give Moira something better to do.
I think the flashbacks were important to show why June was vehemently against going to Canada. Luke was the one who wanted a baby desperately, and Moira had put the idea in June’s head that she alone wasn’t enough for him, without a baby. Luke and Moira had both complained about June remaining in Gilead, but the truth is they both played a part in that decision.
This is all a new plant because a) there is zero inherent conflict with Luke and b) they need conflict to make it interesting
June sent that tape telling Luke that Nicole's father was Nick and that she loved both Luke and Nick.