Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Here's the thing. It is realistic. Before we had counseling, got separated, etc ... I was caught up in trying to make the relationship with my wife work that I looked past her lack of effort -- in initimacy, helping around the house, maintaining friendships -- and told myself this was the way it had to be and all marriages were, and if I continued to make the effort at least I was being the good husband. Then one of my friends suggested I do a couple things for myself instead of her -- so I joined a couple of new circles ... and it became evident from the relationships these folks had with their spouses that ... no. This was not the way things had to be. I insisted on counseling, realized that she was unable to put in the effort, and now we're separated. I'm looking for a relationship that's based on *mutual* respect, communication, and affection. Not one way -- I'd rather be alone than in a relationship where the other person didn't care again.

So -- if you care, get your ass into gear. If not, you better hope your spouse doesn't see the light.

But you separated before cheating, right? See, it can be done!

Yep. I'd argue that both the cheater here and the spouses who've decided they no longer need to put in the effort are dealing with things in a way that could cause more problems in the long run. I'm also clearly not going to sit here and tell people they have a moral obligation to save their marriage.

Having said that ... suffering through a sexless, affectionless marriage for a long period of time has caused me to drop judgement I may have once had for a cheating spouse. If you haven't dealt with it you won't understand the mess it causes. It stinks. It hurts. Being supposedly together and alone is so much worse than just being alone. It got to the point where there were days when I didn't want to go home from work to deal with her mess. So it's not that I'm a saint or perfect -- had my circumstances and group of friends been a little different, I may have made different choices and I recognize that. I'm still angry with her and angry with myself for being willing to put up with it for so long.

Yes, yes it does suck to suffer through a marriage that is less than — less than fulfilling sexually or as a partnership or whatever. That, however, is no justification for cheating.

My mama taught me two wrongs don’t make a right.

Good for you. I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying that we are all human beings -- not robots -- and saddled with the emotional and psychological problems that come along with that. When a person feels hopeless, unwanted, unloved, and a little worthless -- I can understand why mistakes are made. I'm not willing to judge those who for whatever reason don't have the same facilities to handle the issue in the same way I did.

I might even draw an analogy to our current situation. I have associates who are terribly judgemental of others who are asking why we can't go back to work. Like me, these associates are fortunate in that they work for "essential" businesses and can do a fair amount of their work from home. They can not empathize with those who have lost jobs and are hit harder than they are by our current situation. If this goes on long enough and our jobs are impacted? I can guarantee you that about 75% of them will be clamoring to open back up so we can go back to work. They'll be a little more understanding once they're in the same shoes as those who are currently out of work.

PP to whom you respond. I didn’t have sex with my DH for 2 years. I enjoy sex. I can’t imagine a marital relationship without sex. So, I understand very well the position that the the cheater PPs find themselves in. It’s one thing to make a “mistake” and cheat in response to a sexless marriage. Yes, that happens to some people who lack the skills and resources to negotiate the end of a relationship. That doesn’t make it right.

It’s quite another to insist that that response is correct, predictable and justifiable and to go on and on in that self-righteousness hiding an affair and manipulating a spouse. That doesn’t happen as a result of personal inadequacy. That happens as a result of psychopathy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Here's the thing. It is realistic. Before we had counseling, got separated, etc ... I was caught up in trying to make the relationship with my wife work that I looked past her lack of effort -- in initimacy, helping around the house, maintaining friendships -- and told myself this was the way it had to be and all marriages were, and if I continued to make the effort at least I was being the good husband. Then one of my friends suggested I do a couple things for myself instead of her -- so I joined a couple of new circles ... and it became evident from the relationships these folks had with their spouses that ... no. This was not the way things had to be. I insisted on counseling, realized that she was unable to put in the effort, and now we're separated. I'm looking for a relationship that's based on *mutual* respect, communication, and affection. Not one way -- I'd rather be alone than in a relationship where the other person didn't care again.

So -- if you care, get your ass into gear. If not, you better hope your spouse doesn't see the light.

But you separated before cheating, right? See, it can be done!

Yep. I'd argue that both the cheater here and the spouses who've decided they no longer need to put in the effort are dealing with things in a way that could cause more problems in the long run. I'm also clearly not going to sit here and tell people they have a moral obligation to save their marriage.

Having said that ... suffering through a sexless, affectionless marriage for a long period of time has caused me to drop judgement I may have once had for a cheating spouse. If you haven't dealt with it you won't understand the mess it causes. It stinks. It hurts. Being supposedly together and alone is so much worse than just being alone. It got to the point where there were days when I didn't want to go home from work to deal with her mess. So it's not that I'm a saint or perfect -- had my circumstances and group of friends been a little different, I may have made different choices and I recognize that. I'm still angry with her and angry with myself for being willing to put up with it for so long.

Yes, yes it does suck to suffer through a marriage that is less than — less than fulfilling sexually or as a partnership or whatever. That, however, is no justification for cheating.

My mama taught me two wrongs don’t make a right.

Good for you. I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying that we are all human beings -- not robots -- and saddled with the emotional and psychological problems that come along with that. When a person feels hopeless, unwanted, unloved, and a little worthless -- I can understand why mistakes are made. I'm not willing to judge those who for whatever reason don't have the same facilities to handle the issue in the same way I did.

I might even draw an analogy to our current situation. I have associates who are terribly judgemental of others who are asking why we can't go back to work. Like me, these associates are fortunate in that they work for "essential" businesses and can do a fair amount of their work from home. They can not empathize with those who have lost jobs and are hit harder than they are by our current situation. If this goes on long enough and our jobs are impacted? I can guarantee you that about 75% of them will be clamoring to open back up so we can go back to work. They'll be a little more understanding once they're in the same shoes as those who are currently out of work.

PP to whom you respond. I didn’t have sex with my DH for 2 years. I enjoy sex. I can’t imagine a marital relationship without sex. So, I understand very well the position that the the cheater PPs find themselves in. It’s one thing to make a “mistake” and cheat in response to a sexless marriage. Yes, that happens to some people who lack the skills and resources to negotiate the end of a relationship. That doesn’t make it right.

It’s quite another to insist that that response is correct, predictable and justifiable and to go on and on in that self-righteousness hiding an affair and manipulating a spouse. That doesn’t happen as a result of personal inadequacy. That happens as a result of psychopathy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Here's the thing. It is realistic. Before we had counseling, got separated, etc ... I was caught up in trying to make the relationship with my wife work that I looked past her lack of effort -- in initimacy, helping around the house, maintaining friendships -- and told myself this was the way it had to be and all marriages were, and if I continued to make the effort at least I was being the good husband. Then one of my friends suggested I do a couple things for myself instead of her -- so I joined a couple of new circles ... and it became evident from the relationships these folks had with their spouses that ... no. This was not the way things had to be. I insisted on counseling, realized that she was unable to put in the effort, and now we're separated. I'm looking for a relationship that's based on *mutual* respect, communication, and affection. Not one way -- I'd rather be alone than in a relationship where the other person didn't care again.

So -- if you care, get your ass into gear. If not, you better hope your spouse doesn't see the light.

But you separated before cheating, right? See, it can be done!

Yep. I'd argue that both the cheater here and the spouses who've decided they no longer need to put in the effort are dealing with things in a way that could cause more problems in the long run. I'm also clearly not going to sit here and tell people they have a moral obligation to save their marriage.

Having said that ... suffering through a sexless, affectionless marriage for a long period of time has caused me to drop judgement I may have once had for a cheating spouse. If you haven't dealt with it you won't understand the mess it causes. It stinks. It hurts. Being supposedly together and alone is so much worse than just being alone. It got to the point where there were days when I didn't want to go home from work to deal with her mess. So it's not that I'm a saint or perfect -- had my circumstances and group of friends been a little different, I may have made different choices and I recognize that. I'm still angry with her and angry with myself for being willing to put up with it for so long.

Yes, yes it does suck to suffer through a marriage that is less than — less than fulfilling sexually or as a partnership or whatever. That, however, is no justification for cheating.

My mama taught me two wrongs don’t make a right.

Good for you. I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying that we are all human beings -- not robots -- and saddled with the emotional and psychological problems that come along with that. When a person feels hopeless, unwanted, unloved, and a little worthless -- I can understand why mistakes are made. I'm not willing to judge those who for whatever reason don't have the same facilities to handle the issue in the same way I did.

I might even draw an analogy to our current situation. I have associates who are terribly judgemental of others who are asking why we can't go back to work. Like me, these associates are fortunate in that they work for "essential" businesses and can do a fair amount of their work from home. They can not empathize with those who have lost jobs and are hit harder than they are by our current situation. If this goes on long enough and our jobs are impacted? I can guarantee you that about 75% of them will be clamoring to open back up so we can go back to work. They'll be a little more understanding once they're in the same shoes as those who are currently out of work.

PP to whom you respond. I didn’t have sex with my DH for 2 years. I enjoy sex. I can’t imagine a marital relationship without sex. So, I understand very well the position that the the cheater PPs find themselves in. It’s one thing to make a “mistake” and cheat in response to a sexless marriage. Yes, that happens to some people who lack the skills and resources to negotiate the end of a relationship. That doesn’t make it right.

It’s quite another to insist that that response is correct, predictable and justifiable and to go on and on in that self-righteousness hiding an affair and manipulating a spouse. That doesn’t happen as a result of personal inadequacy. That happens as a result of psychopathy.