Anonymous
09/17/2018 16:39
Subject: PSA: Jews are a racial group
There's no definitive answer because it's complicated. The Jewish people are an ethnoreligious community and the criteria for "membership" in such a community isn't clear.
I'd ask you something, though: What does it mean to be Catholic? Do you need to have gone to confession regularly? What if you haven't been to church in years but still believe in the basic doctrines?
Point being, it's hard to define what it means to be a member of basically any religion, once you get past the most conservative, orthodox interpretation.
Anonymous
09/17/2018 15:03
Subject: PSA: Jews are a racial group
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Trying to be so exclusive is offensive to those who are kept out.
It’s not exclusive to define yourself as an ethnoreligious group. Not everyone can be a part of every group. Jews don’t proselytize for a reason; we’re happy to be who we are, and don’t feel we need tons and tons of us.
I also agree with PP; most of this thread is hugely offensive to the Jewish people.
As in, why dare you question who we think we are?
Exactly, actually. If we say, "Hey, you can be Jewish if you engage with one of the following: our religion, our ethnicity/culture, and/or you have certain genetic backgrounds (essentially Ashkenazi or Sephardic)" we would appreciate it if you would just say "ok, cool." We do not appreciate it when you say, "That's horrible/alt-right of you to say! How dare you! You are only a religion and nothing else!"
We're allowed to define what it means to be part of our group. We don't push our criteria on anyone else; in fact, we don't proselytize at all. If you want to be part of our group, you can convert. Those of us who have genetic backgrounds that are Jewish don't need to convert. This is simply how we define what it means to be Jewish. It's how we've defined it for thousands of years.
You're also allowed to argue endlessly among yourselves about who is more Jewish than whom.
Is there any sort of "authority" to settle this age old dispute? No.
Jews argue. It’s what we do, a piece of evidence that we hold education in high regard. Better to argue from a place of knowledge than sit back and just nod along. One of the most important documents in Judaism, the Talmud, is a collection of learned arguments.
Is this why there's no definitive answer to who is Jewish? How is that helpful to anyone?
Anonymous
09/17/2018 08:47
Subject: PSA: Jews are a racial group
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Trying to be so exclusive is offensive to those who are kept out.
It’s not exclusive to define yourself as an ethnoreligious group. Not everyone can be a part of every group. Jews don’t proselytize for a reason; we’re happy to be who we are, and don’t feel we need tons and tons of us.
I also agree with PP; most of this thread is hugely offensive to the Jewish people.
As in, why dare you question who we think we are?
Exactly, actually. If we say, "Hey, you can be Jewish if you engage with one of the following: our religion, our ethnicity/culture, and/or you have certain genetic backgrounds (essentially Ashkenazi or Sephardic)" we would appreciate it if you would just say "ok, cool." We do not appreciate it when you say, "That's horrible/alt-right of you to say! How dare you! You are only a religion and nothing else!"
We're allowed to define what it means to be part of our group. We don't push our criteria on anyone else; in fact, we don't proselytize at all. If you want to be part of our group, you can convert. Those of us who have genetic backgrounds that are Jewish don't need to convert. This is simply how we define what it means to be Jewish. It's how we've defined it for thousands of years.
You're also allowed to argue endlessly among yourselves about who is more Jewish than whom.
Is there any sort of "authority" to settle this age old dispute? No.
Jews argue. It’s what we do, a piece of evidence that we hold education in high regard. Better to argue from a place of knowledge than sit back and just nod along. One of the most important documents in Judaism, the Talmud, is a collection of learned arguments.
"Thou shalt argue until blue in the face and then longer, while eating good food and drinking good wine" might as well be one of our Commandments.
Anonymous
09/17/2018 08:11
Subject: PSA: Jews are a racial group
So if you want to be Jewish (or don't want to be Jewish), just keeping arguing until someone agrees with you.
Anonymous
09/17/2018 08:07
Subject: PSA: Jews are a racial group
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Trying to be so exclusive is offensive to those who are kept out.
It’s not exclusive to define yourself as an ethnoreligious group. Not everyone can be a part of every group. Jews don’t proselytize for a reason; we’re happy to be who we are, and don’t feel we need tons and tons of us.
I also agree with PP; most of this thread is hugely offensive to the Jewish people.
As in, why dare you question who we think we are?
Exactly, actually. If we say, "Hey, you can be Jewish if you engage with one of the following: our religion, our ethnicity/culture, and/or you have certain genetic backgrounds (essentially Ashkenazi or Sephardic)" we would appreciate it if you would just say "ok, cool." We do not appreciate it when you say, "That's horrible/alt-right of you to say! How dare you! You are only a religion and nothing else!"
We're allowed to define what it means to be part of our group. We don't push our criteria on anyone else; in fact, we don't proselytize at all. If you want to be part of our group, you can convert. Those of us who have genetic backgrounds that are Jewish don't need to convert. This is simply how we define what it means to be Jewish. It's how we've defined it for thousands of years.
You're also allowed to argue endlessly among yourselves about who is more Jewish than whom.
Is there any sort of "authority" to settle this age old dispute? No.
Jews argue. It’s what we do, a piece of evidence that we hold education in high regard. Better to argue from a place of knowledge than sit back and just nod along. One of the most important documents in Judaism, the Talmud, is a collection of learned arguments.
Anonymous
09/17/2018 07:56
Subject: PSA: Jews are a racial group
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Trying to be so exclusive is offensive to those who are kept out.
It’s not exclusive to define yourself as an ethnoreligious group. Not everyone can be a part of every group. Jews don’t proselytize for a reason; we’re happy to be who we are, and don’t feel we need tons and tons of us.
I also agree with PP; most of this thread is hugely offensive to the Jewish people.
As in, why dare you question who we think we are?
Exactly, actually. If we say, "Hey, you can be Jewish if you engage with one of the following: our religion, our ethnicity/culture, and/or you have certain genetic backgrounds (essentially Ashkenazi or Sephardic)" we would appreciate it if you would just say "ok, cool." We do not appreciate it when you say, "That's horrible/alt-right of you to say! How dare you! You are only a religion and nothing else!"
We're allowed to define what it means to be part of our group. We don't push our criteria on anyone else; in fact, we don't proselytize at all. If you want to be part of our group, you can convert. Those of us who have genetic backgrounds that are Jewish don't need to convert. This is simply how we define what it means to be Jewish. It's how we've defined it for thousands of years.
You're also allowed to argue endlessly among yourselves about who is more Jewish than whom.
Is there any sort of "authority" to settle this age old dispute? No.
Anonymous
09/16/2018 22:02
Subject: PSA: Jews are a racial group
Anonymous wrote:The idea that Ashkenazim are white but Sephardim are not white is a little nutty. Jews are generally speaking (not including Ethiopian, Indian, etc.) a population who have not been considered white for much of our history, e.g., like Armenians, Arabs, Roma, Southern Italians, etc., but who are broadly acknowledged as white for at least the last 50 years.
Also, the idea that Jews are happy with are few numbers is BS. We have these numbers because of, e.g., the Shoah, Farhud, inquisitions, pogroms, kidnappings, terrorism, forced conversions, childhood military conscriptions, etc. We could use more members. Would trade Javanka for minyans of Mexican anusim.
Who said Ashkenazi are white but Sephardic aren’t?
Also, sure it would be nice to have more Jews, but we don’t try to make our community as inclusive as possible. If we did, we’d proselytize.
Anonymous
09/16/2018 21:57
Subject: PSA: Jews are a racial group
The idea that Ashkenazim are white but Sephardim are not white is a little nutty. Jews are generally speaking (not including Ethiopian, Indian, etc.) a population who have not been considered white for much of our history, e.g., like Armenians, Arabs, Roma, Southern Italians, etc., but who are broadly acknowledged as white for at least the last 50 years.
Also, the idea that Jews are happy with are few numbers is BS. We have these numbers because of, e.g., the Shoah, Farhud, inquisitions, pogroms, kidnappings, terrorism, forced conversions, childhood military conscriptions, etc. We could use more members. Would trade Javanka for minyans of Mexican anusim.
Also, the idea that Jews are happy with are few numbers is BS. We have these numbers because of, e.g., the Shoah, Farhud, inquisitions, pogroms, kidnappings, terrorism, forced conversions, childhood military conscriptions, etc. We could use more members. Would trade Javanka for minyans of Mexican anusim.
Anonymous
09/16/2018 21:35
Subject: PSA: Jews are a racial group
Anonymous wrote:To the above idea: here is one perspective (https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/ashkenazi-jews-are-not-white-response-to-haaretz-article/).
It notes that as late as 1987, the US Government did not consider Ashkenazi Jews white.
Here is one excerpt (she writes in the second person because it’s addressed to Ashkenazi Jews):
You are Jews not because of your “religion” (are you even religious?), but because you were born into a tribe/people called the Nation of Israel. You are not “white people” with a “Jewish religion”, you are Jews – members of a people who origniated in Judea, whether you adhere to the laws of the tribe or not.
+ 1
Anonymous
09/16/2018 20:45
Subject: PSA: Jews are a racial group
To the above idea: here is one perspective (https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/ashkenazi-jews-are-not-white-response-to-haaretz-article/).
It notes that as late as 1987, the US Government did not consider Ashkenazi Jews white.
Here is one excerpt (she writes in the second person because it’s addressed to Ashkenazi Jews):
You are Jews not because of your “religion” (are you even religious?), but because you were born into a tribe/people called the Nation of Israel. You are not “white people” with a “Jewish religion”, you are Jews – members of a people who origniated in Judea, whether you adhere to the laws of the tribe or not.
It notes that as late as 1987, the US Government did not consider Ashkenazi Jews white.
Here is one excerpt (she writes in the second person because it’s addressed to Ashkenazi Jews):
You are Jews not because of your “religion” (are you even religious?), but because you were born into a tribe/people called the Nation of Israel. You are not “white people” with a “Jewish religion”, you are Jews – members of a people who origniated in Judea, whether you adhere to the laws of the tribe or not.
Anonymous
09/16/2018 20:41
Subject: Re:PSA: Jews are a racial group
Anonymous wrote:So if you are Jewish and marry a white catholic, it's an interracial marriage as the Jewish person is not white?
Jews are still considered broadly white (as long as they’re Ashkenazi; Sephardic is different). This is an issue of ethnicity and genetic background, not race.
I would say, though, that it’s important to note that someone with Jewish genetic background is Semitic, not Aryan (the latter being what most people think of as “white.”). In any case, though, it’s complicated when you get to the question of whether Jewish people are white.
Anonymous
09/16/2018 20:24
Subject: Re:PSA: Jews are a racial group
So if you are Jewish and marry a white catholic, it's an interracial marriage as the Jewish person is not white?
Anonymous
09/16/2018 19:51
Subject: PSA: Jews are a racial group
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Trying to be so exclusive is offensive to those who are kept out.
It’s not exclusive to define yourself as an ethnoreligious group. Not everyone can be a part of every group. Jews don’t proselytize for a reason; we’re happy to be who we are, and don’t feel we need tons and tons of us.
I also agree with PP; most of this thread is hugely offensive to the Jewish people.
As in, why dare you question who we think we are?
Exactly, actually. If we say, "Hey, you can be Jewish if you engage with one of the following: our religion, our ethnicity/culture, and/or you have certain genetic backgrounds (essentially Ashkenazi or Sephardic)" we would appreciate it if you would just say "ok, cool." We do not appreciate it when you say, "That's horrible/alt-right of you to say! How dare you! You are only a religion and nothing else!"
We're allowed to define what it means to be part of our group. We don't push our criteria on anyone else; in fact, we don't proselytize at all. If you want to be part of our group, you can convert. Those of us who have genetic backgrounds that are Jewish don't need to convert. This is simply how we define what it means to be Jewish. It's how we've defined it for thousands of years.
Anonymous
09/16/2018 18:52
Subject: PSA: Jews are a racial group
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Trying to be so exclusive is offensive to those who are kept out.
It’s not exclusive to define yourself as an ethnoreligious group. Not everyone can be a part of every group. Jews don’t proselytize for a reason; we’re happy to be who we are, and don’t feel we need tons and tons of us.
I also agree with PP; most of this thread is hugely offensive to the Jewish people.
This is well stated.
Yes.....especially the remarks about tribalism, which has definite derogatory connotations..
Anonymous
09/16/2018 18:48
Subject: PSA: Jews are a racial group
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Trying to be so exclusive is offensive to those who are kept out.
It’s not exclusive to define yourself as an ethnoreligious group. Not everyone can be a part of every group. Jews don’t proselytize for a reason; we’re happy to be who we are, and don’t feel we need tons and tons of us.
I also agree with PP; most of this thread is hugely offensive to the Jewish people.
This is well stated.