Anonymous
Post 07/27/2017 12:55     Subject: Re:Trump announces policy banning transgender military service
https://www.militarytimes.com/pay-benefits/military-benefits/health-care/2015/02/13/dod-spends-84m-a-year-on-viagra-similar-meds/

Most goes to retirees. Medicare spends a lot on Viagra, as well.

Anonymous
Post 07/27/2017 12:51     Subject: Re:Trump announces policy banning transgender military service
It is meaningful. Because ED costs far outweigh the costs of transitioning surgeries. That you've chosen to break it down for "average" soldiers or per soldier is what is not meaningful b/c there are always going to be differences between between each individual. The healthy soldier with no medical history is going to cost less than the "average" soldier with asthma, or who injures him/herself, or who has allergies, or . . . pick your ailment. So, this is a bit of cute maneuvering to do it that way. Overall, the financial argument simply doesn't hold up.

And why ED is identified should be obvious. It's not necessary to be able to get an erection to serve in the military just as it isn't, according to people here, "necessary" to undergo transition while in the military. Yet, one is extensively covered. The other people are bitching and complaining about b/c, let's be honest, it has zero to do with cost and all to do with fear of what they don't know.


And, some may have ED as a result of injuries incurred in service. And, I seriously doubt that many enlistees need Viagara when they enlist. Let's see that statistic first, please.

And, let's face it--there are plenty of other factors involved. But, if the DOD starts paying for transgender surgery, I guarantee you that there will be a lot more enlistments from transgenders--and the expense will quickly escalate.

This is a bogus argument.

Also, what is your source for the amount spent on Viagara? I'd love to see that.

Anonymous
Post 07/27/2017 12:50     Subject: Trump announces policy banning transgender military service
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:And just to hammer home how ill conceived Trump's new policy is, both in terms of substance and how it's received by those in the military - the chairman of the joint chiefs issued a statement saying that they would not be implementing this new ban and plan to treat "all our personnel with respect."

https://twitter.com/PeterAlexander/status/890589409329983489


Wow. You neglected to add the phrases "until implementation guidelines are given" and "in the meantime".


I think the chairman was pretty clear on not supporting this policy. But surely you know more about works for the military than he does.
Anonymous
Post 07/27/2017 12:44     Subject: Trump announces policy banning transgender military service
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Transgender people join the military to get free sex re-assignment surgery. It costs tax payers a couple million a year, but better than botching their bodies in Thailand.

The military pays 5 times as much on viagra then on gender reassignment surgery.


Why do people keep saying that as if it's meaningful?
How much is spent for the average soldier with ED?
How much is spent for the average transgender soldier?

If I can demonstrate that ADHD is less expensive to treat than transgender...ism? or ED, will that suddenly convince everyone that people who are treating their ADHD should be allowed to serve?


It is meaningful. Because ED costs far outweigh the costs of transitioning surgeries. That you've chosen to break it down for "average" soldiers or per soldier is what is not meaningful b/c there are always going to be differences between between each individual. The healthy soldier with no medical history is going to cost less than the "average" soldier with asthma, or who injures him/herself, or who has allergies, or . . . pick your ailment. So, this is a bit of cute maneuvering to do it that way. Overall, the financial argument simply doesn't hold up.

And why ED is identified should be obvious. It's not necessary to be able to get an erection to serve in the military just as it isn't, according to people here, "necessary" to undergo transition while in the military. Yet, one is extensively covered. The other people are bitching and complaining about b/c, let's be honest, it has zero to do with cost and all to do with fear of what they don't know.
Anonymous
Post 07/27/2017 12:44     Subject: Re:Trump announces policy banning transgender military service
"The United States Military generally avoids recruiting people that require a daily medication for an illness (such as diabetes, thyroid conditions, and ADHD). It is best if you take a daily medication to discontinue use for a year before you apply to join the army."

http://www.answers.com/Q/Can_someone_with_ADHD_join_the_military?#slide=1

Also, visible tattoos, prior criminal convictions, no high school diploma

Can otherkins enlist? Gender neutrals have their "they' respected?

Whole classes of people are kept out of the military for a variety of reasons.

How would you like to phase in the military restructure that would be required to treat everyone 'fairly'?

Right now the military has fairly competently worked out race and gayness, and is working on really difficult issues with integrating women in combat (Isn't it funny that this seems to be elective--what will happen when they start forcing women service members who are qualified but don't seek frontline combat to go?)

Trans previously could serve if they were not transitioning and did their trans thing at home. I think President Obama hugely disservice them by putting the cart before the horse on this one. To bring in the medical element as well as the fluid gender on active duty would seemingly open up all of the above.
Anonymous
Post 07/27/2017 12:26     Subject: Trump announces policy banning transgender military service
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Transgender people join the military to get free sex re-assignment surgery. It costs tax payers a couple million a year, but better than botching their bodies in Thailand.

The military pays 5 times as much on viagra then on gender reassignment surgery.


Why do people keep saying that as if it's meaningful?
How much is spent for the average soldier with ED?
How much is spent for the average transgender soldier?

If I can demonstrate that ADHD is less expensive to treat than transgender...ism? or ED, will that suddenly convince everyone that people who are treating their ADHD should be allowed to serve?


Parent of 2 ADHD kids functioning at a very high level-- one doing well academically at TJ. I hate to say there is anything these kids cannot do. But even with carefully calibrated Adderall doses, and taking a booster at lunch and sometimes another at dinner if it is going to be a late homework night, there is still a time in the evenings when both kids get moody and start having trouble dealing. And if they don't come off their meds at night, the can't sleep. The military does not want to precisely time their Adderall doses so that they don't have a gap. And they don't want a soldier who. Loses focus and get overloaded in the midfdle of a firefight.

Maybe kids who have less severe ADHD and can manage without meds are fine. But med dependent ADHD people, especially stimulant med dependent people, not be allowed to serve. ADHD cannot be managed in many cases so that you never have periods when the symptoms don't interfere.
Anonymous
Post 07/27/2017 12:08     Subject: Trump announces policy banning transgender military service
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Transgender people join the military to get free sex re-assignment surgery. It costs tax payers a couple million a year, but better than botching their bodies in Thailand.

The military pays 5 times as much on viagra then on gender reassignment surgery.


Why do people keep saying that as if it's meaningful?
How much is spent for the average soldier with ED?
How much is spent for the average transgender soldier?

If I can demonstrate that ADHD is less expensive to treat than transgender...ism? or ED, will that suddenly convince everyone that people who are treating their ADHD should be allowed to serve?


I'm not sure why it keeps getting mentioned either unless the poster somehow thinks Viagra and ED are funny in some juvenile way. The military also recently started covering breast pumps, which brought them out of the dinosaur age. Yes, the military provides medical coverage. I'm not sure what that has to do with the Trans discussion, except that an incredibly arduous and expensive surgery may be elected by some trans service members in which case the question has been whether the military would cover the cost. I believe this was holding up the defense authorization bill and this tweet was Trumps attempt to cut through the swathe and simplify things. I personal have zero issue with trans serving as their current sex and to uniform standards, and doing what they want on private time. Transformation on the governments dime does not seem like a great deal for taxpayers however. And if we acknowledge that service members can do sexually/and gender on their private time - lets stop prosecuting them for adultery shall we? How many heterosexualservice members have been prosecuted, stripped of rank, dishonorably discharged for what they do in their "private lives"? I'm guessing with gay marriage we will see some adultery and prosecution there as well?
Anonymous
Post 07/27/2017 12:07     Subject: Trump announces policy banning transgender military service
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Transgender people join the military to get free sex re-assignment surgery. It costs tax payers a couple million a year, but better than botching their bodies in Thailand.

The military pays 5 times as much on viagra then on gender reassignment surgery.


Why do people keep saying that as if it's meaningful?
How much is spent for the average soldier with ED?
How much is spent for the average transgender soldier?

If I can demonstrate that ADHD is less expensive to treat than transgender...ism? or ED, will that suddenly convince everyone that people who are treating their ADHD should be allowed to serve?
is be

People are saying this because Trump twittered that cost was one reason to kick out transgender soldiers. So to point out that the military is paying a vast amount more on a non-medically-life-saving drug like Viagra shows that cost is not a real concern to Trump or anyone else in the military.
Anonymous
Post 07/27/2017 11:55     Subject: Trump announces policy banning transgender military service
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Transgender people join the military to get free sex re-assignment surgery. It costs tax payers a couple million a year, but better than botching their bodies in Thailand.

The military pays 5 times as much on viagra then on gender reassignment surgery.


Why do people keep saying that as if it's meaningful?
How much is spent for the average soldier with ED?
How much is spent for the average transgender soldier?

If I can demonstrate that ADHD is less expensive to treat than transgender...ism? or ED, will that suddenly convince everyone that people who are treating their ADHD should be allowed to serve?
Anonymous
Post 07/27/2017 11:35     Subject: Re:Trump announces policy banning transgender military service
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff just told Reuters that there will be no policy change with regard to transgender service members until directed from the President. Apparently he doesn't take order over Twitter.


Where do I go to hug the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff?


And, this is always the policy. They don't make changes until they are given an order to do so. And, FWIW, didn't Mattis just announce a delay?

Please remember that Dunford is a Marine.

The mission comes first with these people. Mattis said that at his hearing. I doubt he had the transgenders in mind when he answered Gillibrand on her LGBT question--but, he made it quite clear that he didn't care unless it affects the mission.

And, like it or not--Trump is Commander in Chief. They take their orders from him directly--not from tweets. If he tells them to do it, they will.
Anonymous
Post 07/27/2017 11:33     Subject: Re:Trump announces policy banning transgender military service
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff just told Reuters that there will be no policy change with regard to transgender service members until directed from the President. Apparently he doesn't take order over Twitter.


Where do I go to hug the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff?


The military are professionals who follow our civilian directives. The hug you can give is by treating them as such. Stop reflexively hugging or bashing them and understand that it comes down to political directives, and the beauty of the military is they follow what we ask them to do--which ultimately preserves our democracy, Simply be thankful that unlike many countries, the military has faithfully fulfilled this role time and time again. If/when they are asked to implement a different plan than you would like--instead of bashing them work to influence your political leadership.
Anonymous
Post 07/27/2017 11:32     Subject: Trump announces policy banning transgender military service
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm a Veteran and I think this was a reasonable policy change.

Transgender persons, in my observations (admittedly only a few, in the last couple years before I separated from service) have a negative effect on small unit cohesion and moral, especially with younger enlisted personnel.

I have no issue with transgendered persons, I just don't think they belong in the military, because they have detrimental effect on other members who serve with them. I've seen this firsthand, and no amount of study-citing or name calling will convince me otherwise.

Unless you've served, frankly, your opinion isn't even valid.


Again: this is exactly what was said about blacks, and women, and gays. Fear mongering. Next up you'll be talking about showers. The people who want to impede progress and equality always get real worked up about showers.


This is not the same thing. FWIW, there was an article in news yesterday by a female WP grad and an Army doctor. The point of the article is that there are definitely additional physical risks to women and that the services need to make that clear. And, there are different rules for women. The transgender issue is much, much more complicated.

As far as transgenders currently serving, let's please not forget Bradley/Chelsea Manning--who I think is fighting to get reassignment surgery paid for by the taxpayers. Great example. And, yes, I know, a bad example.

The transgender issue is very fluid. In fact, there is a "gender fluid" category these days, which means it can vary from day to day. There is also a "gender neutral" category for some people.

There are some transgenders who want surgery and some who do not. There are some who are still attracted to the opposite sex of their birth gender (Caitlin Jenner comes to mind) and have said they do not want the surgery (although, I think that may have changed recently).
If they do select gender reassignment, then that requires lots of counseling prior to this. It removes them from



The military operates on rules and regulations. How in the world is this worth the effort? The training alone would be quite time consuming. Do you have any idea how much sexual assault prevention training goes on these days? There is still race relations training, as well.

This is a very, very difficult issue. It is not comparable to integration--this involves logistics that were never considered when Obama put this forward.




It's worth it because if we want our military to be part of a global theater it will include transgender service persons from other countries. Otherwise America will have to abstain from confrontations which include countries that have transgender person serving.
Anonymous
Post 07/27/2017 11:32     Subject: Trump announces policy banning transgender military service
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:And just to hammer home how ill conceived Trump's new policy is, both in terms of substance and how it's received by those in the military - the chairman of the joint chiefs issued a statement saying that they would not be implementing this new ban and plan to treat "all our personnel with respect."

https://twitter.com/PeterAlexander/status/890589409329983489


Wow. You neglected to add the phrases "until implementation guidelines are given" and "in the meantime".

Well, the Pres is CIC. What else is he supposed to say?
Anonymous
Post 07/27/2017 11:30     Subject: Trump announces policy banning transgender military service
Anonymous wrote:And just to hammer home how ill conceived Trump's new policy is, both in terms of substance and how it's received by those in the military - the chairman of the joint chiefs issued a statement saying that they would not be implementing this new ban and plan to treat "all our personnel with respect."

https://twitter.com/PeterAlexander/status/890589409329983489


Wow. You neglected to add the phrases "until implementation guidelines are given" and "in the meantime".
Anonymous
Post 07/27/2017 11:29     Subject: Re:Trump announces policy banning transgender military service
jsteele wrote:The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff just told Reuters that there will be no policy change with regard to transgender service members until directed from the President. Apparently he doesn't take order over Twitter.


Where do I go to hug the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff?