Anonymous
Post 06/08/2016 20:20     Subject: Let's join forces to scrap the current homeless shelter plan and start over
Funny how seriously all of you are taking one idea conceived by the Mayor and some cronies, in the spur of the moment, while completely drunk.
Anonymous
Post 06/08/2016 18:45     Subject: Let's join forces to scrap the current homeless shelter plan and start over
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You area all now seeing the problems with 'fairness'. Fairness actually means bringing those who did everything right, down, to equalize those who haven't. That's not actually fair, now is it?

There is an individual who did everything right - who worked hard, scrapped, saved - to ensure he/she would not continue the poverty cycle. Instead of lifting that person up as an example, the 'fairness advocates' did their best to demean that individual's accomplishments.

This type of progressive liberalism only works when the group buys into it or when it's forced on them. The pushback you see is not due to 'racism', 'bias', etc. It's due to INDIVIDUALS who do not want to participate in their own demise. This is not selfish or racist, or whatever other names you want to throw out there. It's due to the basic UNfairness of the program overall - the stripping away of individual rights for the 'common good'. If that sounds a bit like Communism? Well....it is....


Love this line- "it's due to individuals who don't want to participate in their on demise." God bless you, sir


Thank you See what a cup of coffee can do? LOL.

I'm tired of success being demeaned, and even worse, success that comes from one's own efforts.
Anonymous
Post 06/08/2016 17:45     Subject: Let's join forces to scrap the current homeless shelter plan and start over
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Indeed, I'm betting that you don't live anywhere near any of the planned shelters either, and the real reason you support the current plan is that it puts them in someone else's backyard, which keeps them far away from you. Sounds to me like you're the real NIMBY here.


You are right that I don't live anywhere near the shelters. You are not right to say that I support the plan. I think it has flaws that can and should be fixed. And I think the way to fix them is to be honest. We can fix the problems of lack of a Good Neighbor Plan. We can fix the fact that they cost too much. We can fix the design if the design (aka, no private bathrooms or kitchens) is not right. Those are fixable problems and we should focus on fixing them. But after we fix all that, there is still going to be major opposition to this plan. And it's won't be because there are some technical flaws with the plan - it will be because the plan gives shelter to homeless families in places where people do not want to shelter homeless families.


How do you know the future? Instead of insulting people who are pointing to the same flaws you are, and pretending that your criticisms are pure while theirs are tainted, maybe you should instead encourage Bowser to fix the damn plan. Better yet, if Bowser had put forth a respectful plan in the first place, that works with the communities involved, this would have all gone better.

It's been pointed out in other posts that Ward 3 already has a number of homeless shelters. So do other wards. No one's complaining about those, and no one's working to push them out. If the shelters are arranged so they're actually good neighbors, any opposition will be a lot less and much more easily rebutted.

Your insults and dismissive attitude make this worse. Since you don't live anywhere near the shelters, you're pushing the problems with this plan onto other people, and you're refusing to listen to their legitimate concerns. Unless you're going to volunteer your neighborhood to adopt a shelter, it seems to me you are a hypocrite to dismiss their concerns.
Anonymous
Post 06/08/2016 17:29     Subject: Let's join forces to scrap the current homeless shelter plan and start over
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Once again, all this discussion about what Bowser's plan is for making sure the 8 shelters don't just become 8 mini-DC Generals, with all the attendant problems, is exactly the sort of thing that she should have put forth at the *beginning* of this process. If she had explained the steps she'd be taking to ensure the 8 shelters will be run well and won't negatively impact the neighborhoods, there would be a lot less opposition. But since she has just been strong-arming the neighborhoods into taking the shelters, and seemingly has given no thought to how the shelters will be integrated as functioning members of the communities, there is pushback.

Terrible plan - poorly executed.


Some of this stuff was in the plan. More to the point though, let's not kid ourselves. People are not opposed to the shelters because they are experts in providing temporary shelters for homeless families and disagree with the nuts and bolts of the Mayor's proposal for how the shelters will be run. The opposition is due to the fact that the shelters will be located near Ward 3 homeowners, and they don't like it. No plan would satisfy them except for changing the location of the shelters.


I disagree. When this issue first appeared, I read the plans. I'm certainly no expert on the design and management of homeless shelters, nor did I ever claim to be. But it's not hard to see that Bowser's plan made no effort to integrate the shelters into the neighborhoods, or to ensure they will be operated efficiently. The plan makes a passing reference to "Good Neighbor Agreements" that will be discussed later when the shelters are ready to open, so the neighbors will see that the shelters will be good neighbors. But that's it. There's no indication what will be in those Good Neighbor Agreements, or whether they will have any effect. There also was clearly no effort to engage the communities before Bowser issued her ultimatum about where the shelters would be located.

You keep claiming that the sole reason for opposition is that the shelters are located near Ward 3 homeowners who don't want them. You're simply wrong. First, you're wrong to single out Ward 3, because other homeowners in other Wards have raised the same concerns. Second, you're simply wrong about my reasons for opposition. I live about as far away from the closest planned shelter as Mayor Bowser herself does (which is pretty damn far!). My life experience in Ward 3 won't be hampered one bit by the shelter. My reason for opposing Bowser's plan is that it's a half-baked scheme which will just spend money inefficiently without any real chance of reducing homelessness or its problems. It's just a political maneuver that Bowser is using to help her next election.

Indeed, I'm betting that you don't live anywhere near any of the planned shelters either, and the real reason you support the current plan is that it puts them in someone else's backyard, which keeps them far away from you. Sounds to me like you're the real NIMBY here.


You are right that I don't live anywhere near the shelters. You are not right to say that I support the plan. I think it has flaws that can and should be fixed. And I think the way to fix them is to be honest. We can fix the problems of lack of a Good Neighbor Plan. We can fix the fact that they cost too much. We can fix the design if the design (aka, no private bathrooms or kitchens) is not right. Those are fixable problems and we should focus on fixing them. But after we fix all that, there is still going to be major opposition to this plan. And it's won't be because there are some technical flaws with the plan - it will be because the plan gives shelter to homeless families in places where people do not want to shelter homeless families.
Anonymous
Post 06/08/2016 17:27     Subject: Let's join forces to scrap the current homeless shelter plan and start over
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Once again, all this discussion about what Bowser's plan is for making sure the 8 shelters don't just become 8 mini-DC Generals, with all the attendant problems, is exactly the sort of thing that she should have put forth at the *beginning* of this process. If she had explained the steps she'd be taking to ensure the 8 shelters will be run well and won't negatively impact the neighborhoods, there would be a lot less opposition. But since she has just been strong-arming the neighborhoods into taking the shelters, and seemingly has given no thought to how the shelters will be integrated as functioning members of the communities, there is pushback.

Terrible plan - poorly executed.


Some of this stuff was in the plan. More to the point though, let's not kid ourselves. People are not opposed to the shelters because they are experts in providing temporary shelters for homeless families and disagree with the nuts and bolts of the Mayor's proposal for how the shelters will be run. The opposition is due to the fact that the shelters will be located near Ward 3 homeowners, and they don't like it. No plan would satisfy them except for changing the location of the shelters.


I opposed the plan because the costs were outrageous. One could actually buy a $650,000 townhouse for each family for what it would cost over 30 years. And that the city would be leasing, not owning the assets. And that the parties involved were big Bowser contributors and cronies. And that it really didn't get at why DC General was so bad in the first place. Add to that, the complete lack of transparency. And, by the way it wasn't just Ward 3. Seems to me every Ward they visited was met with a lot of questions and concerns. I live in Ward 6 and from what I can tell they never even took into consideration what we already have in terms of homeless facilities, services and public housing. Skin in the game? Sorry, we already have skin in the game, more than Ward 3 does, but none of that is reflected in their planning, none of that was taken into consideration. Lots of reasons, not just uninformed knee-jerk NIMBYism as you want to suggest.
Anonymous
Post 06/08/2016 17:19     Subject: Let's join forces to scrap the current homeless shelter plan and start over
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Once again, all this discussion about what Bowser's plan is for making sure the 8 shelters don't just become 8 mini-DC Generals, with all the attendant problems, is exactly the sort of thing that she should have put forth at the *beginning* of this process. If she had explained the steps she'd be taking to ensure the 8 shelters will be run well and won't negatively impact the neighborhoods, there would be a lot less opposition. But since she has just been strong-arming the neighborhoods into taking the shelters, and seemingly has given no thought to how the shelters will be integrated as functioning members of the communities, there is pushback.

Terrible plan - poorly executed.


Some of this stuff was in the plan. More to the point though, let's not kid ourselves. People are not opposed to the shelters because they are experts in providing temporary shelters for homeless families and disagree with the nuts and bolts of the Mayor's proposal for how the shelters will be run. The opposition is due to the fact that the shelters will be located near Ward 3 homeowners, and they don't like it. No plan would satisfy them except for changing the location of the shelters.


I disagree. When this issue first appeared, I read the plans. I'm certainly no expert on the design and management of homeless shelters, nor did I ever claim to be. But it's not hard to see that Bowser's plan made no effort to integrate the shelters into the neighborhoods, or to ensure they will be operated efficiently. The plan makes a passing reference to "Good Neighbor Agreements" that will be discussed later when the shelters are ready to open, so the neighbors will see that the shelters will be good neighbors. But that's it. There's no indication what will be in those Good Neighbor Agreements, or whether they will have any effect. There also was clearly no effort to engage the communities before Bowser issued her ultimatum about where the shelters would be located.

You keep claiming that the sole reason for opposition is that the shelters are located near Ward 3 homeowners who don't want them. You're simply wrong. First, you're wrong to single out Ward 3, because other homeowners in other Wards have raised the same concerns. Second, you're simply wrong about my reasons for opposition. I live about as far away from the closest planned shelter as Mayor Bowser herself does (which is pretty damn far!). My life experience in Ward 3 won't be hampered one bit by the shelter. My reason for opposing Bowser's plan is that it's a half-baked scheme which will just spend money inefficiently without any real chance of reducing homelessness or its problems. It's just a political maneuver that Bowser is using to help her next election.

Indeed, I'm betting that you don't live anywhere near any of the planned shelters either, and the real reason you support the current plan is that it puts them in someone else's backyard, which keeps them far away from you. Sounds to me like you're the real NIMBY here.
Anonymous
Post 06/08/2016 16:50     Subject: Let's join forces to scrap the current homeless shelter plan and start over
Anonymous wrote:Once again, all this discussion about what Bowser's plan is for making sure the 8 shelters don't just become 8 mini-DC Generals, with all the attendant problems, is exactly the sort of thing that she should have put forth at the *beginning* of this process. If she had explained the steps she'd be taking to ensure the 8 shelters will be run well and won't negatively impact the neighborhoods, there would be a lot less opposition. But since she has just been strong-arming the neighborhoods into taking the shelters, and seemingly has given no thought to how the shelters will be integrated as functioning members of the communities, there is pushback.

Terrible plan - poorly executed.


Some of this stuff was in the plan. More to the point though, let's not kid ourselves. People are not opposed to the shelters because they are experts in providing temporary shelters for homeless families and disagree with the nuts and bolts of the Mayor's proposal for how the shelters will be run. The opposition is due to the fact that the shelters will be located near Ward 3 homeowners, and they don't like it. No plan would satisfy them except for changing the location of the shelters.
Anonymous
Post 06/08/2016 16:38     Subject: Let's join forces to scrap the current homeless shelter plan and start over
Once again, all this discussion about what Bowser's plan is for making sure the 8 shelters don't just become 8 mini-DC Generals, with all the attendant problems, is exactly the sort of thing that she should have put forth at the *beginning* of this process. If she had explained the steps she'd be taking to ensure the 8 shelters will be run well and won't negatively impact the neighborhoods, there would be a lot less opposition. But since she has just been strong-arming the neighborhoods into taking the shelters, and seemingly has given no thought to how the shelters will be integrated as functioning members of the communities, there is pushback.

Terrible plan - poorly executed.
Anonymous
Post 06/08/2016 16:29     Subject: Let's join forces to scrap the current homeless shelter plan and start over
DC General was a horrific mess due to a number of things, such as poor hygienic practices. How about making it MANDATORY that residents attend life skills classes, and make it MANDATORY that they keep their units clean, look after the building and its sanitation, et cetera? If they aren't willing, swap them out for the next family on the wait list.

I see nothing wrong with that.
Anonymous
Post 06/08/2016 16:22     Subject: Let's join forces to scrap the current homeless shelter plan and start over
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The reason to rush this plan is to do as much as possible as quickly as possible to get families out of the hellish conditions at DC General.


But again, for the 100th time, what's to prevent the 8 new shelters from degenerating to the exact same hellish conditions?

Again, the program and services are not changing. And that's the reason DC General degenerated.


Just curious, did you know DC General was a former hospital before it became a shelter?


Of course I did, since I am familiar with the English language, and thus aware that the "General" in "DC General" is in fact short for "General Hospital". And also because I have been in this town long enough to have been at DC General when it was a hospital. Did you know that the way one would design a hospital is very different from the way one would design temporary housing for homeless families?
Anonymous
Post 06/08/2016 16:16     Subject: Let's join forces to scrap the current homeless shelter plan and start over
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The reason to rush this plan is to do as much as possible as quickly as possible to get families out of the hellish conditions at DC General.


But again, for the 100th time, what's to prevent the 8 new shelters from degenerating to the exact same hellish conditions?

Again, the program and services are not changing. And that's the reason DC General degenerated.


DC General was never designed to house homeless families. These new shelters are being designed for expressly that purpose.


Given they are dorm-style with shared, communal bathrooms I'd disagree that they are family-oriented... It's not all that different a model from how DC General was, having been hospital rooms...
Anonymous
Post 06/08/2016 15:29     Subject: Let's join forces to scrap the current homeless shelter plan and start over
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The reason to rush this plan is to do as much as possible as quickly as possible to get families out of the hellish conditions at DC General.


But again, for the 100th time, what's to prevent the 8 new shelters from degenerating to the exact same hellish conditions?

Again, the program and services are not changing. And that's the reason DC General degenerated.


Just curious, did you know DC General was a former hospital before it became a shelter?
Anonymous
Post 06/08/2016 15:25     Subject: Let's join forces to scrap the current homeless shelter plan and start over
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The reason to rush this plan is to do as much as possible as quickly as possible to get families out of the hellish conditions at DC General.


But again, for the 100th time, what's to prevent the 8 new shelters from degenerating to the exact same hellish conditions?

Again, the program and services are not changing. And that's the reason DC General degenerated.


DC General was never designed to house homeless families. These new shelters are being designed for expressly that purpose.
Anonymous
Post 06/08/2016 14:32     Subject: Let's join forces to scrap the current homeless shelter plan and start over
Anonymous wrote:The reason to rush this plan is to do as much as possible as quickly as possible to get families out of the hellish conditions at DC General.


But again, for the 100th time, what's to prevent the 8 new shelters from degenerating to the exact same hellish conditions?

Again, the program and services are not changing. And that's the reason DC General degenerated.
Anonymous
Post 06/08/2016 14:30     Subject: Re:Let's join forces to scrap the current homeless shelter plan and start over
You don't think for FAR LESS than 600 million it could be redone very quickly, the city would actually own it, and then could look to address any additional needs or simultaneously plan them?