Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP centers need to fill the classes and FCPS does not want to bus students far. The committee probably looks at students in the pool school by school and fill the quota. If there are a lot of students in the pool going to one particular center then the committee becomes more selective.

This is utter BS. So it's harder to get into AAP from some schools than others? Another reason the entire center concept is a farce. FCPS touts that unlike other districts, it can serve all students found eligible. But if it's not properly finding students eligible because of logistical considerations, that's misleading.

Before someone gets snarky, my child was admitted. This is not sour grapes personally.

The central screening committee is looking for reasons to find students Center-eligible and they are not considering "FCPS does not want to bus students far." They absolutely do NOT look "at students in the pool school by school and fill the quota."

See the GMU Program review, starting on page 45.
http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/pdfs/2013GMUReview.pdf

Do you think they would admit it if they were?

Nice to see you here, Oliver Stone.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I do want to state the facts as well and hope that someone can enlighten me as to what would be helpful do to in our case.
NNAT - 104 I know it is average or slightly above average
CogAT - 111 the same comment as above
GBRS - 6 we are truly flabbergasted by this number. Hardly any positive commentary is provided (so to an earlier poster who said "All GBRS commentary is positive", this is clearly not true)

I don't think I have seen GBRS as low as ours, in these and all past forums I have combed through. So I am curious to hear your opinions.

I am a proponent of all students having WISC testing done as the results help paint a picture of a child's strengths and challenges. With that being said, unless the WISC testing hints at an LD, I do not think your child will be found Level IV Center eligible. However, the WISC test results may point to strengths in verbal or math, which may result in Level III (part-time) placement.

some kids just don't do group tests well and as for GBRS well it's subjective. A strong WISC could work on appeal but with these scores I think you need 137+. I would also recommend submitting strong work samples to shore up the WISC.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP centers need to fill the classes and FCPS does not want to bus students far. The committee probably looks at students in the pool school by school and fill the quota. If there are a lot of students in the pool going to one particular center then the committee becomes more selective.

This is utter BS. So it's harder to get into AAP from some schools than others? Another reason the entire center concept is a farce. FCPS touts that unlike other districts, it can serve all students found eligible. But if it's not properly finding students eligible because of logistical considerations, that's misleading.

Before someone gets snarky, my child was admitted. This is not sour grapes personally.

The central screening committee is looking for reasons to find students Center-eligible and they are not considering "FCPS does not want to bus students far." They absolutely do NOT look "at students in the pool school by school and fill the quota."

See the GMU Program review, starting on page 45.
http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/pdfs/2013GMUReview.pdf

Do you think they would admit it if they were?

Anonymous wrote:I was the poster at 4.01. Thank you all for your responses.

Where do you inquire about testing for other than WSIC tests? Someone mentioned a Woodcock Johnson test, as well as inquiring about the Lever III services (are these part-time, as in like the same as a 'guest' in the program?) Our school has Level IV services and we have a designated AAP Center as well. How to go about inquiring (with the AART or with the Principal directly) either about 'guesting' in the program or part-time services? I understand there could be re-testing done for CogAT at the school itself, once in the 3rd-7th grades (so once in those 5 years). Does anyone know when that can be requested or is it school-specific?

It seems that my best bet is to hope for a high WSIC score. I do not want to prep my child as my intention truly is to see how capable he is - the testing needs to be novel to him. I will also want to manage my expectations - a good point from the earlier poster - about WSIC. Perhaps my child excels in only 1 area and that is fine and he may get advanced services in that area. If we do not get into AAP, the life will go on and we will make sure our son matures. Someone noted offering him extracurricular opportunities - he has done that consistently since K, taking a variety of school enrichment programs. I am told his chess club instructor thinks he reasons and strategizes really well. He is on a swim team and his coach is impressed with his dedication. I assume letters from extracurricular activities like this should be helpful in the appeals package. BUT a lot of discussants also say that this is an ACADEMIC not extracurricular placement and what matters ultimately and above all is STRONG math and STRONG writing/reading. We are strong in math and we read above grade level. How did that translate into GBRS as low as 6 is completely stumping us.

Can someone please post a few examples of what they have done on appeals if their scores were SIMILAR or IDENTICAL to ours? (NNAT 104, CogAT 111, GBRS 6 (he is clearly not the teacher's favorite student); WSIC testing pending). Did they do WSIC and other tests and if the latter, where and with what testing and results turnaround? What WSIC score did they get? Were they successful with the appeals process?

I was also shocked at the samples the school selected for the screening file. My child spontaneously produces much better samples at home. I do plan to show strong samples from home but wonder if the central committee will see them as 'controlled' since the will come from home.

Thank you all for your input.

You seem to have a lot of self-worth invested in this, even if only subconsciously. The bottom line is, with those scores, only an IQ test above 130 is going to help. Letters and work samples are not going to make the difference at this point. In fact, I'm puzzled why you didn't submit them in the first round.

FWIW, my fourth grader had very similar scores (slightly lower NNAT, slightly higher COGAT) and is in Gen Ed and advanced math, and absolutely belongs where he is. With those scores, I never considered AAP referral. We had him WISC-tested this year as part of broader ADHD testing, and WISC was 109, possibly suppressed a little by undiagnosed ADHD. Get the WISC, but you may need to come to terms with the fact that this isn't happening for this child.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP centers need to fill the classes and FCPS does not want to bus students far. The committee probably looks at students in the pool school by school and fill the quota. If there are a lot of students in the pool going to one particular center then the committee becomes more selective.

This is utter BS. So it's harder to get into AAP from some schools than others? Another reason the entire center concept is a farce. FCPS touts that unlike other districts, it can serve all students found eligible. But if it's not properly finding students eligible because of logistical considerations, that's misleading.

Before someone gets snarky, my child was admitted. This is not sour grapes personally.

The central screening committee is looking for reasons to find students Center-eligible and they are not considering "FCPS does not want to bus students far." They absolutely do NOT look "at students in the pool school by school and fill the quota."

See the GMU Program review, starting on page 45.
http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/pdfs/2013GMUReview.pdf

Adding to my comment above. I fully believe that is what happens. I don't think the comment is a farce, I think the process is a farce.

Anonymous wrote:AAP centers need to fill the classes and FCPS does not want to bus students far. The committee probably looks at students in the pool school by school and fill the quota. If there are a lot of students in the pool going to one particular center then the committee becomes more selective.

This is utter BS. So it's harder to get into AAP from some schools than others? Another reason the entire center concept is a farce. FCPS touts that unlike other districts, it can serve all students found eligible. But if it's not properly finding students eligible because of logistical considerations, that's misleading.

Before someone gets snarky, my child was admitted. This is not sour grapes personally.

By the way, this is 10:55 poster (above). We did WISC at GMU and it was just fine.

I just wanted to give some advice to parents who are considering the appeal. First, with respect to my son currently in 2nd grade, I am still waiting to find out if he got into AAP (zip code 22101 and can't believe I haven't heard yet). I have twins and one of them we are trying for AAP and one we are not (as AAP is definitely not appropriate for him - he is so smart, but has learning disabilities and we don't want his confidence and enjoyment in school to lessen).

This appeal info is with respect to my older son who is currently at Longfellow in 7th grade AAP and didn't get into AAP at first, but got in on appeal. He took the WISC for the appeal and he scored 99th percentile on verbal so that helped a lot. His 2nd grade teacher was not supportive of him getting into AAP and so I knew I had to do the appeal on my own. The WISC score was enough to get him in on appeal and I would like to say that now in 7th grade he is straight As and one of the best students in Longfellow AAP program (doing super in Mr. Williams math class for those of you who know who he is) so those parents who say that kids who get in on appeal don't deserve to get into AAP don't know what they are talking about. You know your kid better than anyone. Have your kid take the WISC and if the scores are good, appeal. If they are not good, you can still appeal, but know your chances are not as good. If they don't get into AAP for 3rd grade, try again next year, but maybe have your kid do mathnesium or a similar program after school so they don't fall behind in math - that's the biggest difference between AAP and regular education program is that the math moves ahead a year. It's much easier to catch up in reading than math. My oldest son actually didn't enter into AAP until 6th grade because we were overseas and he still did fabulously because we got him a math tutor in 5th grade to help him catch up to where the kids were by 6th grade. So your kid can also do fine entering AAP later if you keep up the math. Good luck!

My son (4th grade ) GBRS 14 CogAt 129, V121/Q131/N123 and NNAT 124 and he was found ineligible. when he took the CoAgt back on the 2nd grade his number was lower CogAt V105/Q109/NV110 and NNAT113. Do you think the screening committee may not have realized the difference in tests scores since the one in the screen sheet is the old one??

And should do the WISK @ GMU or @ private practice
Thank you all for your input

I was the poster at 4.01. Thank you all for your responses.

Where do you inquire about testing for other than WSIC tests? Someone mentioned a Woodcock Johnson test, as well as inquiring about the Lever III services (are these part-time, as in like the same as a 'guest' in the program?) Our school has Level IV services and we have a designated AAP Center as well. How to go about inquiring (with the AART or with the Principal directly) either about 'guesting' in the program or part-time services? I understand there could be re-testing done for CogAT at the school itself, once in the 3rd-7th grades (so once in those 5 years). Does anyone know when that can be requested or is it school-specific?

It seems that my best bet is to hope for a high WSIC score. I do not want to prep my child as my intention truly is to see how capable he is - the testing needs to be novel to him. I will also want to manage my expectations - a good point from the earlier poster - about WSIC. Perhaps my child excels in only 1 area and that is fine and he may get advanced services in that area. If we do not get into AAP, the life will go on and we will make sure our son matures. Someone noted offering him extracurricular opportunities - he has done that consistently since K, taking a variety of school enrichment programs. I am told his chess club instructor thinks he reasons and strategizes really well. He is on a swim team and his coach is impressed with his dedication. I assume letters from extracurricular activities like this should be helpful in the appeals package. BUT a lot of discussants also say that this is an ACADEMIC not extracurricular placement and what matters ultimately and above all is STRONG math and STRONG writing/reading. We are strong in math and we read above grade level. How did that translate into GBRS as low as 6 is completely stumping us.

Can someone please post a few examples of what they have done on appeals if their scores were SIMILAR or IDENTICAL to ours? (NNAT 104, CogAT 111, GBRS 6 (he is clearly not the teacher's favorite student); WSIC testing pending). Did they do WSIC and other tests and if the latter, where and with what testing and results turnaround? What WSIC score did they get? Were they successful with the appeals process?

I was also shocked at the samples the school selected for the screening file. My child spontaneously produces much better samples at home. I do plan to show strong samples from home but wonder if the central committee will see them as 'controlled' since the will come from home.

Thank you all for your input.

7:12 here again.
Just wanted to add-

If/When you talk to your base school, ask about what services they have and if you can refer your child for level III services.
If your school has LLIV, and depending on how it is set up, the principal might be able to do placements.
You should also find out about Advanced Math.
You'll need to be familiar with what your school has in case your child gets denied.

In our situation, our base school had no LLIV.
They were just starting advanced math but for the level a year younger than our kid.
Our kid was already in Level III and it wasn't enough.
So the paths were either Level III or AAP center. Huge difference in those 2 "options" for services.
We also had an older child that went through the base school so we knew what the rest of the curriculum looked like and were already told it was more or less going to be the same.

And a more important note:
Look for enrichment opportunities OUTSIDE the school. Get feedback from non-FCPS people about your kid. See what your kid can do when not limited in his curriculum.
Once we were able to "know" our kid's capabilities outside the school, then the answers really came clear.

Responding to 4:01's questions. I've been in your situation so I understand what you are going through.

What do you think our chances of an appeal are?
It will totally depend on your appeal package, which should include at least a WISC.

What would you think his WISC needs to be?
Unlike the CogAT, there is not a firm cut off on the WISC. The "consensus" in DCUM says above 130 but it varies. If your child gets a score above 130, there's not much else you need to do with the rest of the package. If it's below 130, then I'd recommend get other testing done- such as Woodcock Johnson Achievement Test, to see if your child is functioning way above grade level. I know you have a lot invested in this WISC right now but make sure you manage your expectations.

Is it worth my time to contact the school screening file committee (not sure if this is the class teacher, AART teacher, principal?) and challenge the content of the screening file which I do have at my disposal.
No, no, no. I know you feel like "challenging" people but don't do it. Looks like the way you see your child is not the way the school sees him. If you were to talk with the school, be polite and gather information. Do not challenge!

How to prepare the appeals package so it tells the central committee that my child deserves to be in the AAP class because he is an exceptional child, exceptional in his own ways. What to put an emphasis on in the appeals package?
Hard evidence helps the package. Testing scores. Don't limit yourself to the WISC.

I assume that since my school thinks so low of my child that involving them in the appeals file is pointless?
You don't need to involve the school in the appeals but do get their input for your benefit.

I did submit a parent questionnaire and recommendation letter the first time around. Is it worth arguing this point again?
You seem to be a parent who puts attention to details. Write a parent letter on how/why your child would be a fit in the AAP classroom, especially if the test results can corroborate with what you are saying.

New samples and if so, of what type? original writing? Math critical thinking? Artsy projects?
Yes all those wouldn't hurt, but focus on the work samples that show your child's strengths. Use the WISC report to see which areas you should highlight.

At also note, your child is ONLY in 2nd grade. This is not a one time thing. If he doesn't get in on appeal, take the next few months to record more observations and refer him next year if you still think that he doesn't fit the gen ed classroom. Good luck and please post about how that goes.

Anonymous wrote:

I do want to state the facts as well and hope that someone can enlighten me as to what would be helpful do to in our case.
NNAT - 104 I know it is average or slightly above average
CogAT - 111 the same comment as above
GBRS - 6 we are truly flabbergasted by this number. Hardly any positive commentary is provided (so to an earlier poster who said "All GBRS commentary is positive", this is clearly not true)

I don't think I have seen GBRS as low as ours, in these and all past forums I have combed through. So I am curious to hear your opinions.

I am a proponent of all students having WISC testing done as the results help paint a picture of a child's strengths and challenges. With that being said, unless the WISC testing hints at an LD, I do not think your child will be found Level IV Center eligible. However, the WISC test results may point to strengths in verbal or math, which may result in Level III (part-time) placement.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The person who "works in education" sounds like a total idiot.

Best practices for gifted identification require a holistic review and definitely to a single score criterion.

In fact, the program review done a few years ago absolutely praised FCPS for its thorough and fair identification process.

Which review was this and who conducted it?

GMU Program Review

http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/review.shtml