Anonymous
Post 12/13/2012 15:14     Subject: If I had know this was the case, I probably wouldn't have married you.
Anonymous wrote: I am asking how you think your child would feel if they were capable of hearing you talk this way about them and their mother? Either hypothetically now or in the future? You have said that you "gave your wife" a child so she wouldn't resent you. Not exactly a wonderful expression of fatherly love. I hope you don't irrevocably fuck up this child - you sound like my own ass of a father, who I hated for a long time and to whom I am now indifferent. Do you want your child to grow up and feel that way about you? Would all the sex in the world be worth that?


Way over analysis. I probably wouldn't even remember this thread in 2 years.


No, but your resentments will still be there. You're missing my point, because you don't want to face how YOUR choices and your role in your marriage is contributing. Bottom line.


My child won't know anything because I won't say anything to the child. What every time frame from now, If i'm still only having sex once a month, i still won't be happy. I don't see what it has to do with my child. Perhaps I resent DW for having another child and therefore preventing me from having more sex? Maybe. What exactly are my choices contributing to?
Anonymous
Post 12/13/2012 15:13     Subject: If I had know this was the case, I probably wouldn't have married you.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:[
+1 DING DING DING! My DH would get a lot more from me if he didn't A) try to initiate when I am already falling asleep, B) make a fucking effort to hire a babysitter or schedule dates and B) not stay up after me or sleep in on the weekend when I am up at 7am with my son. If you want sex, get the fuck up before I have a preschooler running around. Otherwise, quit bitching. There's only so many hours in the day and I am not doing it at 11pm on a weeknight when I have been up since 5:30 and have to work in the morning. I need sleep. Get over it.


THIS.


OP here. It's not fair that that DH would sleep in, i agree. But having to hire a sitter to go on a date as a pre-requisite to sex is freaking ridiculous. sex is as important as sleep, except maybe to a LD spouse.


My LD spouse has made it clear, over and over, that sex (and TV and booze) are all more important than sex. It's because he says, "Sex is work." You people wonder why I finally had an affair after 15 years of this nonsense.


But see, this is a bigger problem than just sex. There is a difference between an LD spouse who is bewildered by their own changes and trying to work toward an acceptable solution and your spouse, who just sounds like a lazy jerk. But there are a lot of HD posters on here who are painting all LD spouses with a broad brush, suggesting that they have been lied to, that we are all passive-aggressive withholders, etc etc etc. We are not. When you have experienced this dramatic shift in your drive and all the other myriad changes that go along with being a new parent, and your spouse is unsympathetic and not trying to see your POV, well, then you are not a great spouse either IMO and you must accept part of the blame. I don't see a lot of HDer's on here accepting THEIR roles in the situation. I see a lot of blame, anger and excuse making for their own failings.


What roles is that?


Go back and read the thread; see if you can't begin to figure it out.
Anonymous
Post 12/13/2012 15:12     Subject: If I had know this was the case, I probably wouldn't have married you.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I haven't read all the replies so maybe this had been covered.

Have you considered that your wife may not be that into you anymore? Is she a SAHM?

I know my mother never put out. She's a SAHM and hate my dad. She stays in the marriage because she doesn't want to work and doesn't want to rock the boat.

This is just my opinion. I think a lot of women are not being honest. I am a woman too and I was in a sexless marriage for years before we finally divorced. What I can't tell my ex is that I love sex, just not with him. I did not cheat and I am not dating. I just simply hate having sex with him because I don't love him anymore.

It is a very hard thing to say to someone. Women tend to dance around the subject and hope that men will forget about sex. I think you need to decide if this is an acceptable lifestyle for you going forward.

Good luck.


I really have a hard time believing that my LD husband doesn't put out often because he doesn't love me. It just takes him 5 or 6 days to get horny again after we hav sex, and nothing I've been able to do - lingerie, toys, couples' videos, doing 90% of the work of the kids and house - has shortened that time period. He's not even 50 yet


So does this make you love him less?
Anonymous
Post 12/13/2012 15:11     Subject: Re:If I had know this was the case, I probably wouldn't have married you.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Well, bully. It doesn't work that way for all of us.


A non related question. When you say "bully", is that just some figure of speech from somewhere? Like saying " Well, hell, I could have done that!" I've never seen the word bully used like that before.


Like as in "bully for you"? You've really never heard the term before? It basically means good for you.


Yes, I really have never heard that before. Is that a regional thing? Is it very common?


No idea. I'm from the Midwest.
Anonymous
Post 12/13/2012 15:10     Subject: If I had know this was the case, I probably wouldn't have married you.
Anonymous wrote:I haven't read all the replies so maybe this had been covered.

Have you considered that your wife may not be that into you anymore? Is she a SAHM?

I know my mother never put out. She's a SAHM and hate my dad. She stays in the marriage because she doesn't want to work and doesn't want to rock the boat.

This is just my opinion. I think a lot of women are not being honest. I am a woman too and I was in a sexless marriage for years before we finally divorced. What I can't tell my ex is that I love sex, just not with him. I did not cheat and I am not dating. I just simply hate having sex with him because I don't love him anymore.

It is a very hard thing to say to someone. Women tend to dance around the subject and hope that men will forget about sex. I think you need to decide if this is an acceptable lifestyle for you going forward.

Good luck.


I really have a hard time believing that my LD husband doesn't put out often because he doesn't love me. It just takes him 5 or 6 days to get horny again after we hav sex, and nothing I've been able to do - lingerie, toys, couples' videos, doing 90% of the work of the kids and house - has shortened that time period. He's not even 50 yet
Anonymous
Post 12/13/2012 15:08     Subject: If I had know this was the case, I probably wouldn't have married you.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:No, he sounds like he has needs that aren't being met. That doesn't make him an ass, it makes him human. OP, sit down and talk to your wife. Have open, non-hostile conversations about how both of you can come together to better meet family and maritial needs.


The subtext of his post is that he only got married for sex. That is pretty ass-y, IMO.


That's just not true. I married for love and companionship and to have kids with my husband. I didn't realize that our different sex drives, openness to variety, differing inhibitions, etc. would really wear on the marriage in the long run. It's more complicated than you LD spouses make it out to be.


Then just go have an affair or get a divorce already. If sex is more important than honoring your vows, taking care of your children together, engaging in shared interests and building a solid home, perhaps your spouse would be better off finding someone better matched to them.


No worries, I did go have an affair. Life's too short to be limited by an LD spouse.


Now maybe you should do the honorable thing and ask for a divorce since you can't honor your vows.


You could also say the LD spouse is not honoring the vows either.


Than file for divorce due to irreconcilable differences. I don't know what else to tell you.
Anonymous
Post 12/13/2012 15:07     Subject: Re:If I had know this was the case, I probably wouldn't have married you.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Well, bully. It doesn't work that way for all of us.


A non related question. When you say "bully", is that just some figure of speech from somewhere? Like saying " Well, hell, I could have done that!" I've never seen the word bully used like that before.


Like as in "bully for you"? You've really never heard the term before? It basically means good for you.


Yes, I really have never heard that before. Is that a regional thing? Is it very common?
Anonymous
Post 12/13/2012 15:06     Subject: Re:If I had know this was the case, I probably wouldn't have married you.
Anonymous wrote:
OP here. That was very deep. You obviously have put much thought into sex. I know my understanding of sex is very limited if I'm gonna use all that you said. Honestly, what you wrote was too deep and too surfer -like zen for me to get. But thanks for trying anyway.


OP, they aren't my ideas that I made up. And they are profound, but simple. I'll try a different explanation.

Is this any easier to follow, OP?


Not OP, but how does this apply to older people? I was sterilized more than 5 years ago (wife here) when I was in my early 40s, so sex has nothing to do with procreation now for us.
Anonymous
Post 12/13/2012 15:06     Subject: If I had know this was the case, I probably wouldn't have married you.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:[
+1 DING DING DING! My DH would get a lot more from me if he didn't A) try to initiate when I am already falling asleep, B) make a fucking effort to hire a babysitter or schedule dates and B) not stay up after me or sleep in on the weekend when I am up at 7am with my son. If you want sex, get the fuck up before I have a preschooler running around. Otherwise, quit bitching. There's only so many hours in the day and I am not doing it at 11pm on a weeknight when I have been up since 5:30 and have to work in the morning. I need sleep. Get over it.


THIS.


OP here. It's not fair that that DH would sleep in, i agree. But having to hire a sitter to go on a date as a pre-requisite to sex is freaking ridiculous. sex is as important as sleep, except maybe to a LD spouse.


My LD spouse has made it clear, over and over, that sex (and TV and booze) are all more important than sex. It's because he says, "Sex is work." You people wonder why I finally had an affair after 15 years of this nonsense.


But see, this is a bigger problem than just sex. There is a difference between an LD spouse who is bewildered by their own changes and trying to work toward an acceptable solution and your spouse, who just sounds like a lazy jerk. But there are a lot of HD posters on here who are painting all LD spouses with a broad brush, suggesting that they have been lied to, that we are all passive-aggressive withholders, etc etc etc. We are not. When you have experienced this dramatic shift in your drive and all the other myriad changes that go along with being a new parent, and your spouse is unsympathetic and not trying to see your POV, well, then you are not a great spouse either IMO and you must accept part of the blame. I don't see a lot of HDer's on here accepting THEIR roles in the situation. I see a lot of blame, anger and excuse making for their own failings.


What roles is that?
Anonymous
Post 12/13/2012 15:03     Subject: If I had know this was the case, I probably wouldn't have married you.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So if he make the plans and hires the sitter, you're sure to put out that night? And if he makes the plans for every night, you're going to put out ever night right?


It would be a hell of a lot more likely, yes. And I am never putting out every single night. If DH expects that he should just go ahead and start an affair or divorce me now. Every night is not realistic for most people, freak.


This is the most honest answer you will ever get from the passive aggressive withholder. It's why all the "you need to change" and "it's just a bad time" and "things will get better" posters are liars, intentionally or not.

Your desire to have sex with the person to whom you pledged your life, foresaking all other, is your "problem."

They have no interest in, and therefore will never, change.

Freak.


Look, when you have a baby and your libido tanks, not wanting to have sex is not being passive aggressive. If your body doesn't respond it doesn't respond. I've been very open about the fact that I just don't have the desire I used to. People like me are not liars, and wanting to renew your whole bond - not just sex - is not passive aggessive or crazy. You sound like a Grade A jerk and I'm glad my husband is not like you.


As the HD wife, I don't care if my husband has to fake wanting me. So long as he can get it up, we're good.


Well, we're all different. Some of us want more than that. Can you begin to acknowledge that?
Anonymous
Post 12/13/2012 15:03     Subject: Re:If I had know this was the case, I probably wouldn't have married you.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Well, bully. It doesn't work that way for all of us.


A non related question. When you say "bully", is that just some figure of speech from somewhere? Like saying " Well, hell, I could have done that!" I've never seen the word bully used like that before.


Like as in "bully for you"? You've really never heard the term before? It basically means good for you.
Anonymous
Post 12/13/2012 15:03     Subject: If I had know this was the case, I probably wouldn't have married you.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So if he make the plans and hires the sitter, you're sure to put out that night? And if he makes the plans for every night, you're going to put out ever night right?


It would be a hell of a lot more likely, yes. And I am never putting out every single night. If DH expects that he should just go ahead and start an affair or divorce me now. Every night is not realistic for most people, freak.


This is the most honest answer you will ever get from the passive aggressive withholder. It's why all the "you need to change" and "it's just a bad time" and "things will get better" posters are liars, intentionally or not.

Your desire to have sex with the person to whom you pledged your life, foresaking all other, is your "problem."

They have no interest in, and therefore will never, change.

Freak.


Look, when you have a baby and your libido tanks, not wanting to have sex is not being passive aggressive. If your body doesn't respond it doesn't respond. I've been very open about the fact that I just don't have the desire I used to. People like me are not liars, and wanting to renew your whole bond - not just sex - is not passive aggessive or crazy. You sound like a Grade A jerk and I'm glad my husband is not like you.


As the HD wife, I don't care if my husband has to fake wanting me. So long as he can get it up, we're good.
Anonymous
Post 12/13/2012 15:02     Subject: If I had know this was the case, I probably wouldn't have married you.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Ah, and now we're back to "wanting sex is immature."


No, that's not what I said. I do think that bringing up the issue of whether this baby was 100% wanted is immature.


Well, I think the question of who wanted the baby became relevant when someone above seemed to be suggesting that his desire for sex was somehow less legitimate because his wife "sacrificed" for the baby. It wasn't a sacrifice *for* him. So it's not exactly an even trade. If she was the driving force in baby #2, the exchange was more like "I want a baby, and it's going to mean I don't want sex as much, so I also want you to have less sex."

So it is acceptable among mature adults to determine who in a couple "wanted" their child more and to use that information in a conversation like this?
Really?

The question of who wanted the baby is NEVER relevant. This is their CHILD. He exists and OP is his father. Any look-back to who wanted this child and how much is unproductive, hurtful, and IMMATURE.


Agreed. OP, how do you think your child would feel one day knowing how you have spoken about this situation?


OP here. What situation? What exactly would my child get to know in the distant future?


I am asking how you think your child would feel if they were capable of hearing you talk this way about them and their mother? Either hypothetically now or in the future? You have said that you "gave your wife" a child so she wouldn't resent you. Not exactly a wonderful expression of fatherly love. I hope you don't irrevocably fuck up this child - you sound like my own ass of a father, who I hated for a long time and to whom I am now indifferent. Do you want your child to grow up and feel that way about you? Would all the sex in the world be worth that?


Way over analysis. I probably wouldn't even remember this thread in 2 years.


No, but your resentments will still be there. You're missing my point, because you don't want to face how YOUR choices and your role in your marriage is contributing. Bottom line.
Anonymous
Post 12/13/2012 15:02     Subject: Re:If I had know this was the case, I probably wouldn't have married you.
Anonymous wrote:
Well, bully. It doesn't work that way for all of us.


A non related question. When you say "bully", is that just some figure of speech from somewhere? Like saying " Well, hell, I could have done that!" I've never seen the word bully used like that before.
Anonymous
Post 12/13/2012 15:01     Subject: Re:If I had know this was the case, I probably wouldn't have married you.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Are we just passionate people, two "high drives" lucky enough to find each other? I'm sure our temperaments are part of it. But what is much more important, what is MOST important, is that we know what sex means: its purpose, its message, its profundity.
If you don't know what sex is all about, you're going to miss the mark, sometimes badly. You wouldn't put sand in your gas tank, and similarly disastrous consequences follow from misunderstanding how sex works and why it is designed the way it is.
What does sex mean to you, OP? What is its purpose? Apologies in advance if you've already shared this, but I need to know where you are coming from to try to help you get where you want to go.


Sex is feeling that I still have a place in this marriage besides the 2 kids. Sex is a release and I'm horny. Sex is me pleasing DW and watching her lose herself. Sex is connecting DW and I since there is no us time anymore with 2 kids. Sex (happening) means that I did not just suffer yet another rejection again.


Hi, OP. Me again. Can you explain something to me? Why do men feel personally rejected when we don't want sex? I can't speak for your wife, but in my case there is NO ONE that I would go for when I don't want it. Like, George Clooney could be naked in my bedroom and I'd be all "George, go the fuck home." For me, I had the hardest time convincing DH that it's not that I don't want sex with YOU, it's that I just don't want sex right now, period. It seems like you guys really internalize this as a self esteem thing. Maybe HD women feel the same way, IDK.



HD woman here. I feel rejected because I know DH would turn off the TV for a woman he hadn't been having sex with for the past 20 years. He makes it all about me when he doesn't want to make the effort to have sex. I don't need dates or romance or compliments, even. Just sex.


I'm sorry to hear that. Again, I do think this situation is different from some of us. I am still in love with my husband - I admire him and he is my best friend. I just don't have desire anymore, and it is really hard to rouse it. I would not turn off the TV for someone new. I don't want anyone else. I want him to work with me and help me get my mojo back. I can't just will it back into existence - I've tried that. After hashing this out for quite a while, he is beginning to help me in the ways that I need, and it is working. Cases like yours make me sad. It's not really about sex and the physiological repercussions of birthing or illness or anything else, it sounds to me like it's about indifference. I think indifference in a relationship is deadly.