Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:M&D is not performing well at the elementary school level. The club's days of dominance may be on the way out.

Is this supposed to be a troll or are you just so caught up in your kids elementary school athletic career that you think ANY of the scores and results at this age matter? Clubs like M&D and Heros do not need to worry if their 4th grade teams are not dominant - they can develop the players they have a continue to attract top talent over the years as well so that when it actually matters they will have HS teams with depth.

Clubs without a good reputation have to flip this around because if their teams are not dominant young, they risk losing their players to more well-established clubs. Look at the current recruiting class. Coppermine 2028 (good club, but not a great recruiting history) had the most dominant team in the country for years - consistently top 3 through 7th grade. But they were so worried about losing their girls that they constantly prioritized winning at all costs over development and opportunities for all their players. Seems like the logic was that if they're the best, people wouldn't leave. And for a while they didn't, but then as people got closer to recruiting years, many of the very good players who weren't getting the development or opportunities they needed said - were out of here - and now they're ranked 40th.

M&D has always been dominate at the younger age groups (the 31s and 30s were killers from the beginning) until they sold to 3 Step... it's fair to point this out, Hero's has not suffered the same fate and remained pretty consistent - yea sure they are gonna add a few every year but Hero's doesn't blow up teams like M&D seems to be doing in their Elem years now.

35s: black went 5-3 and green went 6-2 this season in the NGLL

34s: m&d stunk it up but green went 6-2, not exactly a juggernaut like older green teams. And as pointed out, black has already reshaped the roster, so I expect them to be up to program expectations immediately.

33s: black went 3-5 and green went 5-3 in the NGLL, so again, not a normal green machine killing everyone.

Green gets the nod in the younger ages, but it’s not like they are destroying like their older teams.

The truth is that in the elementary school age groups, families, for whatever reasons, haven’t consolidated into the traditional top teams like in years past. This is true to both m&d black and heros green. But my money is on those programs drawing in upgrades and turning it around.

Hero’s tends to be among the stronger youth teams due to their long-standing and well developed Developmental Team/Program. Those 40-60 kids feed directly into the green and white teams. Probably 90% of the first NGLL age group teams are those kids. This gets them jumpstarted from the get go and allows them to pick the best from a large lot for the green team.

They still are generally not juggernauts at these ages. The Hero’s records (33, 34, 35) this year are a bit misleading. Don’t think they’ve been beating the top teams. They aren’t and haven’t been top 5 teams. If you look at the last year or two, you can see they are good but no one would say great.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Yea , from what I have heard from a friend on the MnD 2034 team those girls have been delt a tough hand this year. Not much consistent coaching support, many practices with one coach or even parents jumping in. Apparently two moms helped run the winter sessions and they are just going to totally start over maybe, which is pretty crappy of the program. It surprises me because I feel like the MnD director truly values the kids and what is most surprising is they are now apparently rostering like 4-5 Broadneck girls for the next summer tournament, without even mentioning it to the current families. A parent took a look at the waivers and saw they had added all these players. It makes everyone a little upset, you have families spending money on hotels and travel etc. and now the subs will see even less field time. I guess that is just the main focus of a club like MnD , I mean they will want to win at all costs, but it is surprising the director is allowing it to happen. I get needing to reshuffle but at least put some support into the current roster.
[/quote]


That is pretty crappy, but not surprising from M&D.

To the poster who said they will be fine later on. Yes, they probably will but the players who were on these teams "early" hoping to ride it out are likely the ones who will be replaced and then either be stuck on their Red team or try to get on somewhere else on an already established team.[/quote]

Yea agree -that is totally crappy for the current roster . I mean I do get that they need to shift etc. but wait for try outs, those girls have paid and stuck it out for 10 months. It is really not fair to them and on top of it they are what .. 10 years old. I agree I would have expected more from the director, from what I have heard she really is good.

Anonymous wrote:The agendas on this page are funny and remind me of what Back of the Cage was still live, for those of you with older kids. On an anonymous forum, you can push any agenda you like which, I’m guessing here, is the agenda of people who don’t want to lose their players to other teams. Or who are now legitimately worried are their kids spot.

My older child played for M&D and so much of what is being said here has been untrue in our experience. Most of the M&D teams I’ve seen make it to high school with a core group of the same girls who started in elementary school - I’d say 1/3 - 1/2. Girls leave, girls quit the sport, and yes, girls get cut. I guess it’s coach dependent, but I have never felt that there is a win at costs atmosphere.

Bottom line is that no one is entitled to a lifetime membership to any club. When your child makes a team, especially at a top club, you know the deal. They make it for a year and come next summer, 100 girls will show up to tryouts who would love their spot. It is up to the athlete to work outside of practice to be the best athlete they can and continue to make whatever team it is they want to be on.

This. M&D teams most often have a core (agree with ur 1/3 estimate) that started in the ES years and go the whole ride. This is the very same for Hero’s (a non-profit). Even true for Hero’s White teams. I know plenty of people who had to migrate from a White team to a 50-100th ranked club, usually come middle school, to keep playing. That feels crappy because you’ve been years on the team. It’s the reality, however. No lifetime membership there either. It’s not first 3rd graders in get a guarantee.

Hard to believe CheckHers or Hoco or Integrity or Legends or Stars has a legacy policy that if you were there last year, we pick you over 5 other kids that came to tryouts and were clearly better. That’s not true. They just may not get those better 5 kids at tryouts. So it’s a mirage at lower level clubs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:M&D is not performing well at the elementary school level. The club's days of dominance may be on the way out.

Is this supposed to be a troll or are you just so caught up in your kids elementary school athletic career that you think ANY of the scores and results at this age matter? Clubs like M&D and Heros do not need to worry if their 4th grade teams are not dominant - they can develop the players they have a continue to attract top talent over the years as well so that when it actually matters they will have HS teams with depth.

Clubs without a good reputation have to flip this around because if their teams are not dominant young, they risk losing their players to more well-established clubs. Look at the current recruiting class. Coppermine 2028 (good club, but not a great recruiting history) had the most dominant team in the country for years - consistently top 3 through 7th grade. But they were so worried about losing their girls that they constantly prioritized winning at all costs over development and opportunities for all their players. Seems like the logic was that if they're the best, people wouldn't leave. And for a while they didn't, but then as people got closer to recruiting years, many of the very good players who weren't getting the development or opportunities they needed said - were out of here - and now they're ranked 40th.

M&D has always been dominate at the younger age groups (the 31s and 30s were killers from the beginning) until they sold to 3 Step... it's fair to point this out, Hero's has not suffered the same fate and remained pretty consistent - yea sure they are gonna add a few every year but Hero's doesn't blow up teams like M&D seems to be doing in their Elem years now.

35s: black went 5-3 and green went 6-2 this season in the NGLL

34s: m&d stunk it up but green went 6-2, not exactly a juggernaut like older green teams. And as pointed out, black has already reshaped the roster, so I expect them to be up to program expectations immediately.

33s: black went 3-5 and green went 5-3 in the NGLL, so again, not a normal green machine killing everyone.

Green gets the nod in the younger ages, but it’s not like they are destroying like their older teams.

The truth is that in the elementary school age groups, families, for whatever reasons, haven’t consolidated into the traditional top teams like in years past. This is true to both m&d black and heros green. But my money is on those programs drawing in upgrades and turning it around.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Feels like M&D is built on the shoulders of other Clubs and Coaches and that doesn’t feel good.

Hahaha, you can have your feel good story, m&d will take its national championships and 1000s of recruits.

Hero's doesn't operate like this and they are still wildly successful.

I do think parents are wising up to realize it's not fun to play somewhere where you are just a number, where it's win at all costs. It's certainly M&Ds choice to run their business like that, but there are a ton of other capable orgs and coaches now along with a much wider talent pool. ( there really wasn't 10-15 years ago when M&D basically created the club scene in Maryland and racked up those 1,000s of recruits).

Lol, you have no clue. Look at the green rosters over the years for the 28 and 29 teams, they upgrade just like m&d does. And the HG 30s are already upgrading their roster, they just took a u15 national team middie from MDU.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:M&D is not performing well at the elementary school level. The club's days of dominance may be on the way out.

Is this supposed to be a troll or are you just so caught up in your kids elementary school athletic career that you think ANY of the scores and results at this age matter? Clubs like M&D and Heros do not need to worry if their 4th grade teams are not dominant - they can develop the players they have a continue to attract top talent over the years as well so that when it actually matters they will have HS teams with depth.

Clubs without a good reputation have to flip this around because if their teams are not dominant young, they risk losing their players to more well-established clubs. Look at the current recruiting class. Coppermine 2028 (good club, but not a great recruiting history) had the most dominant team in the country for years - consistently top 3 through 7th grade. But they were so worried about losing their girls that they constantly prioritized winning at all costs over development and opportunities for all their players. Seems like the logic was that if they're the best, people wouldn't leave. And for a while they didn't, but then as people got closer to recruiting years, many of the very good players who weren't getting the development or opportunities they needed said - were out of here - and now they're ranked 40th.

M&D has always been dominate at the younger age groups (the 31s and 30s were killers from the beginning) until they sold to 3 Step... it's fair to point this out, Hero's has not suffered the same fate and remained pretty consistent - yea sure they are gonna add a few every year but Hero's doesn't blow up teams like M&D seems to be doing in their Elem years now.

There 28 and 29 teams were not consistently strong in elementary years

The agendas on this page are funny and remind me of what Back of the Cage was still live, for those of you with older kids. On an anonymous forum, you can push any agenda you like which, I’m guessing here, is the agenda of people who don’t want to lose their players to other teams. Or who are now legitimately worried are their kids spot.

My older child played for M&D and so much of what is being said here has been untrue in our experience. Most of the M&D teams I’ve seen make it to high school with a core group of the same girls who started in elementary school - I’d say 1/3 - 1/2. Girls leave, girls quit the sport, and yes, girls get cut. I guess it’s coach dependent, but I have never felt that there is a win at costs atmosphere.

Bottom line is that no one is entitled to a lifetime membership to any club. When your child makes a team, especially at a top club, you know the deal. They make it for a year and come next summer, 100 girls will show up to tryouts who would love their spot. It is up to the athlete to work outside of practice to be the best athlete they can and continue to make whatever team it is they want to be on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:M&D is not performing well at the elementary school level. The club's days of dominance may be on the way out.

Is this supposed to be a troll or are you just so caught up in your kids elementary school athletic career that you think ANY of the scores and results at this age matter? Clubs like M&D and Heros do not need to worry if their 4th grade teams are not dominant - they can develop the players they have a continue to attract top talent over the years as well so that when it actually matters they will have HS teams with depth.

Clubs without a good reputation have to flip this around because if their teams are not dominant young, they risk losing their players to more well-established clubs. Look at the current recruiting class. Coppermine 2028 (good club, but not a great recruiting history) had the most dominant team in the country for years - consistently top 3 through 7th grade. But they were so worried about losing their girls that they constantly prioritized winning at all costs over development and opportunities for all their players. Seems like the logic was that if they're the best, people wouldn't leave. And for a while they didn't, but then as people got closer to recruiting years, many of the very good players who weren't getting the development or opportunities they needed said - were out of here - and now they're ranked 40th.

M&D has always been dominate at the younger age groups (the 31s and 30s were killers from the beginning) until they sold to 3 Step... it's fair to point this out, Hero's has not suffered the same fate and remained pretty consistent - yea sure they are gonna add a few every year but Hero's doesn't blow up teams like M&D seems to be doing in their Elem years now.

Anonymous wrote:M&D is not performing well at the elementary school level. The club's days of dominance may be on the way out.

Is this supposed to be a troll or are you just so caught up in your kids elementary school athletic career that you think ANY of the scores and results at this age matter? Clubs like M&D and Heros do not need to worry if their 4th grade teams are not dominant - they can develop the players they have a continue to attract top talent over the years as well so that when it actually matters they will have HS teams with depth.

Clubs without a good reputation have to flip this around because if their teams are not dominant young, they risk losing their players to more well-established clubs. Look at the current recruiting class. Coppermine 2028 (good club, but not a great recruiting history) had the most dominant team in the country for years - consistently top 3 through 7th grade. But they were so worried about losing their girls that they constantly prioritized winning at all costs over development and opportunities for all their players. Seems like the logic was that if they're the best, people wouldn't leave. And for a while they didn't, but then as people got closer to recruiting years, many of the very good players who weren't getting the development or opportunities they needed said - were out of here - and now they're ranked 40th.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Feels like M&D is built on the shoulders of other Clubs and Coaches and that doesn’t feel good.

Hahaha, you can have your feel good story, m&d will take its national championships and 1000s of recruits.

Hero's doesn't operate like this and they are still wildly successful.

I do think parents are wising up to realize it's not fun to play somewhere where you are just a number, where it's win at all costs. It's certainly M&Ds choice to run their business like that, but there are a ton of other capable orgs and coaches now along with a much wider talent pool. ( there really wasn't 10-15 years ago when M&D basically created the club scene in Maryland and racked up those 1,000s of recruits).

Anonymous wrote:Feels like M&D is built on the shoulders of other Clubs and Coaches and that doesn’t feel good.

Hahaha, you can have your feel good story, m&d will take its national championships and 1000s of recruits.

Feels like M&D is built on the shoulders of other Clubs and Coaches and that doesn’t feel good.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Yea , from what I have heard from a friend on the MnD 2034 team those girls have been delt a tough hand this year. Not much consistent coaching support, many practices with one coach or even parents jumping in. Apparently two moms helped run the winter sessions and they are just going to totally start over maybe, which is pretty crappy of the program. It surprises me because I feel like the MnD director truly values the kids and what is most surprising is they are now apparently rostering like 4-5 Broadneck girls for the next summer tournament, without even mentioning it to the current families. A parent took a look at the waivers and saw they had added all these players. It makes everyone a little upset, you have families spending money on hotels and travel etc. and now the subs will see even less field time. I guess that is just the main focus of a club like MnD , I mean they will want to win at all costs, but it is surprising the director is allowing it to happen. I get needing to reshuffle but at least put some support into the current roster.
[/quote]


That is pretty crappy, but not surprising from M&D.

To the poster who said they will be fine later on. Yes, they probably will but the players who were on these teams "early" hoping to ride it out are likely the ones who will be replaced and then either be stuck on their Red team or try to get on somewhere else on an already established team.[/quote]

There is a reason that m&d has remained successful, and it is by recruiting top players. It sucks for the kids who get cut, but life isn’t fair. The 2034 team was underperforming, so m&d addressed it quickly. Do other programs have the ability to do that?

Coaches don’t always work out like planned, even at top clubs. What you want from a club is that they: recognize, respond, pivot, regroup, bolster. Not just let it ride or double down.

Not super familiar with the situation but a little. It seems they are resourcing this team, which I assume is what everyone wants. The one thing I heard is that a Manchester Valley High School coach is now leaning in.

“M&D develops teams, not players.” This makes no sense. I don’t think this holds up, though it sounds nice. Continuously trying to improve a team year over year (here, it’s not fun for anyone to be 1-7) in part through recruiting or tryouts doesn’t mean the club isn’t developing the girls it has currently. They aren’t mutually exclusive. It’s not a zero sum game. Development of one is development of the other. If you’ve ever seen a top club practice, if you’re a player, you’re getting massive individual development as the team is developed. That said, it’s not akin to a skills clinic or 1x1 session, though I’m sure if that’s what’s needed, it’s done.

Anonymous wrote:M&D with the clean sweep of NGLL National Championship. But no connection there. No conflict of interest. Hmmmm….

So your contention is that the management group instructed the league and its officials to give the titles to m&d teams? Lmao