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Anonymous wrote:Williams and Amherst boosters typically punch up and highlight comparisons to ivies; Bowdoin Wes Middlebury punch up with comparisons to Williams and Amherst. Rarely if never do you hear Williams or Amherst booster saying “we are just as good as Bowdoin or Middlebury!”

One thing about Pomona boosters: they don’t go there at all. They don’t need to, being in California. That’s part of the reason Pomona is so on the rise, with no end to that trajectory in sight.

Pomona to me is more of a direct peer or West Coast version of Haverford - not any of the upper nescacs

But Pomona doesn’t compare itself to east coast SLACs. They don’t care because they don’t have to. It is a sign of strength. East coast SLACs can compare themselves to Pomona all they want — a sign of weakness.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Williams and Amherst boosters typically punch up and highlight comparisons to ivies; Bowdoin Wes Middlebury punch up with comparisons to Williams and Amherst. Rarely if never do you hear Williams or Amherst booster saying “we are just as good as Bowdoin or Middlebury!”

One thing about Pomona boosters: they don’t go there at all. They don’t need to, being in California. That’s part of the reason Pomona is so on the rise, with no end to that trajectory in sight.

Pomona to me is more of a direct peer or West Coast version of Haverford - not any of the upper NESCACs

That would be a great peer to have because none of the other schools being discussed are objectively better than Haverford in any way.

BUT BUT BUT USNEWS RANKING…and MY PERSONAL DISDAIN FOR THE WEST COAST! You didn’t factor that in!

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Bowdoin's acceptance rate is artificially deflated because of their need blind policies for international students. They get about 3000 excess applications from international students because of this policy. The same issue holds for Williams, Amherst, the Ivies and other need blind for internationals schools. About 42-45% of Bowdoin's applications are international in a typical year. Domestic applicants have a 12% acceptance rate.

If you normalize of financial aid you will find that all of the top SLACs have a 10-12% admissions rate and the rate for the Ivies is 7-10%.

This is an interesting way of looking at it. Amongst WASP, Amherst is the only one that is Need Blind for internationals. So by your logic its acceptance should actually be higher than what it seems to be.

Not true, Pomona is need blind for some international applicants abroad and all international applicants who went to school in the US. Swat and Bowdoin are completely need blind.

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Anonymous wrote:Just curious as I have a kid looking at Swarthmore. Is it not considered similar to Williams/Amherst in these conversations (most of which center on WAP and Bowdoin) bc of perceived intensity or something else?

yes, I think WASP is alive and well as top 4. I also think Midd and Bowdoin are really just a half a step behind. Very tough admits, really nice environments, great career outcomes. I personally would pick Bowdoin and Midd over Amherst. If a kid liked the vibe of one over the others, that's the way to go. They're that close in prestige etc

Maybe I would consider Bowdoin, but definitely not Midd with it financial issues and very remote location and small surrounding town

The Midd hater has finally arrived. Please don't start because we will bat you around as typical when you start thread hijacking with your nonsense.

You may think you’re responding to your so-called Midd hater but I have no connection with Midd. Just stating my opinion. Whether you like it or not, that’s your problem, but there was nothing said that was false.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Bowdoin's acceptance rate is artificially deflated because of their need blind policies for international students. They get about 3000 excess applications from international students because of this policy. The same issue holds for Williams, Amherst, the Ivies and other need blind for internationals schools. About 42-45% of Bowdoin's applications are international in a typical year. Domestic applicants have a 12% acceptance rate.

If you normalize of financial aid you will find that all of the top SLACs have a 10-12% admissions rate and the rate for the Ivies is 7-10%.

This is an interesting way of looking at it. Amongst WASP, Amherst is the only one that is Need Blind for internationals. So by your logic its acceptance should actually be higher than what it seems to be.

Not true, Pomona is need blind for some international applicants abroad and all international applicants who went to school in the US. Swat and Bowdoin are completely need blind.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Bowdoin's acceptance rate is artificially deflated because of their need blind policies for international students. They get about 3000 excess applications from international students because of this policy. The same issue holds for Williams, Amherst, the Ivies and other need blind for internationals schools. About 42-45% of Bowdoin's applications are international in a typical year. Domestic applicants have a 12% acceptance rate.

If you normalize of financial aid you will find that all of the top SLACs have a 10-12% admissions rate and the rate for the Ivies is 7-10%.

This is an interesting way of looking at it. Amongst WASP, Amherst is the only one that is Need Blind for internationals. So by your logic its acceptance should actually be higher than what it seems to be.

Anonymous wrote:
I don’t really get why no one’s answering the question. This doesn’t call for analysis or deep thinking.

I’d ED Pomona, cause the students seems happy, sunshine year round is good for you, and student body size is great due to Claremont college system.

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Anonymous wrote:my DC attends a well-known NYC private - 25 applicants to Williams and Amherst over the last 4 years, with 7 acceptances. 2 Pomona applicants both accepted. Pomona a wonderful school, but doesn’t have the cache with the east coast elite - not do I think the school gives a sht, it’s doing just fine without the east coast strivers who are ivy or bust, then williams/amherst or bust

Meh, Pomona has a ton of east coast people on campus. Maybe there’s space for nuance.

the enrollment is 1700+/- - there’s not a ton of any type of kids there

I think it’s obvious we’re talking relative to an lac.

22 from New York
https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/pomona-college/student-life/diversity/chart-geographic-breakdown.html

Today I learned that New York is the only state on the east coast! Thanks.

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Other way around. The need blind schools aren’t nearly as selective as they appear because they draw huge numbers of international applications but only take a very tiny portion of them which “artificially” skews their numbers.

This phenomenon is by no means limited to the more exclusive need blind SLACs like Amherst and Bowdoin (and by extension W, S, and P who do not publicize this data). Many others (e.g Hamilton, Bates, Haverford) included the foreign application and acceptance data in recent CDS and have just as large a proportion of foreign applicants. The SLAC model has been very popular with a certain set of well-to-do foreign students. Of course after this year I expect to see drastic declines in such applications.

Yes, absolutely, need blind or not, SLAC or Ivy, internationals have lower acceptance rates. For example, Grinnell is not need blind for internationals, but they have a lot of international students and give aid to many — so a ton of applicants.

But the point is that all of this is irrelevant if you are a domestic student. Then you have to “normalize” for athletes, Questbridge and like programs (admitted ED at nearly a 1:1 ratio), major donors or famous, medium donors plus legacy, first gen not doing Questbridge, geographic diversity, low-performing high schools etc.

Then yield, then percent of class admitted ED, whether there are two ED rounds or one, whether ED is even an advantage etc.

Then you will find that domestic chances of admission are different after WASPB.

In other words, the international gobbledygook is an unnecessary distraction.

Care to provide some evidence for this? I'm pretty sure that you can't but there is plenty of evidence to the contrary regarding international applications skewing acceptance rates. ED is a different animal and harder to decipher because of programs like the ones that you mentioned along with athletes and others.

I’m pretty sure that you know nothing about domestic college admissions. Congrats on your irrelevant international point.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WASPB. LOL. Keep saying it over and over and it might become a thing.

You just did! Thank you.

WASPB
WASPB
WASPB
WASPB

Anonymous wrote:People don't talk like this on CC. The main reason? They're can't post over and over again pretending to be different people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:my DC attends a well-known NYC private - 25 applicants to Williams and Amherst over the last 4 years, with 7 acceptances. 2 Pomona applicants both accepted. Pomona a wonderful school, but doesn’t have the cache with the east coast elite - not do I think the school gives a sht, it’s doing just fine without the east coast strivers who are ivy or bust, then williams/amherst or bust

Meh, Pomona has a ton of east coast people on campus. Maybe there’s space for nuance.

the enrollment is 1700+/- - there’s not a ton of any type of kids there

I think it’s obvious we’re talking relative to an lac.

22 from New York
https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/pomona-college/student-life/diversity/chart-geographic-breakdown.html

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Other way around. The need blind schools aren’t nearly as selective as they appear because they draw huge numbers of international applications but only take a very tiny portion of them which “artificially” skews their numbers.

This phenomenon is by no means limited to the more exclusive need blind SLACs like Amherst and Bowdoin (and by extension W, S, and P who do not publicize this data). Many others (e.g Hamilton, Bates, Haverford) included the foreign application and acceptance data in recent CDS and have just as large a proportion of foreign applicants. The SLAC model has been very popular with a certain set of well-to-do foreign students. Of course after this year I expect to see drastic declines in such applications.

Yes, absolutely, need blind or not, SLAC or Ivy, internationals have lower acceptance rates. For example, Grinnell is not need blind for internationals, but they have a lot of international students and give aid to many — so a ton of applicants.

But the point is that all of this is irrelevant if you are a domestic student. Then you have to “normalize” for athletes, Questbridge and like programs (admitted ED at nearly a 1:1 ratio), major donors or famous, medium donors plus legacy, first gen not doing Questbridge, geographic diversity, low-performing high schools etc.

Then yield, then percent of class admitted ED, whether there are two ED rounds or one, whether ED is even an advantage etc.

Then you will find that domestic chances of admission are different after WASPB.

In other words, the international gobbledygook is an unnecessary distraction.

Care to provide some evidence for this? I'm pretty sure that you can't but there is plenty of evidence to the contrary regarding international applications skewing acceptance rates. ED is a different animal and harder to decipher because of programs like the ones that you mentioned along with athletes and others.