Anonymous wrote:No, in many cases the knowledge isn't gone because Mitre employees will jump back into for-profit government contracting, *if* they have relevant current skills (like I did when I decided to leave). And not every contractor is experiencing a bloodbath because my very-large employer has had relatively few layoffs, and redirected DOGE-affected staff to new work. There were some layoffs in my current agency work group but they were either known non-producers or their projects were cut.

This. Someone with current knowledge, experience, and skills simply will land at Booz, Leidos, ManTech, or another for-profit firm. Part of Mitre’s mistake was growing without _sufficient_ differentiation in expertise and experience from the commercial contractors, particularly in IT, less so in RF, collection, and more exotic technology. It is fixable, but I will not hold my breath waiting for that to happen.

A lot of work that flows to FFRDCs (and to UARCs) does so primarily because it is easy to create a task order for an existing FFRDC/UARC contract vehicle and fund it using government-internal funds transfers (e.g., MIPR). UARC and FFRDC contracts are sole-source and the standard boilerplate text to justify using them is well known. By contrast, creating a new services contract competitively takes a long time, takes specialist contract-savvy civil service folks, and often will get protested/delayed. To some extent, there is so much subcontracting under services contracts that are put in place to avoid creating a new contract. The situation might well shift if Congress would simplify the services contracting rules, unlikely though that is.

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Anonymous wrote:This all will pass in a year. Are FFRDCs a bit bloated? Probably. Is it worth the risk to demolish them? No. Freeze their ceiling and step up audits.

What risk? Are you paying attention to what's happening in government?

If there’s another terrorist attack after all of these RIFs and resignations, who has the analytic shop to advise on what to do next? That shop takes decades to cultivate. Get rid of it and see what alternatives you have. That my friend is the risk.

How many analysts sit around twiddling their thumbs?

I have noticed staff from some of the studies and analysis FFRDCs are very very young - like a year out of undergrad + 1 year MA in security studies. They have no work experience besides writing a term paper or two in school.

Are these the folks my office is shelling out $800k+ to advise us on grand strategy with a 70%+ multiplier for overhead?

There's one FFRDC... that won't be named... who seems to be hiring a lot of very young, inexperienced FTE and placing them on our task orders. They are energetic but their work just isn't sophisticated, on average. What's worse, it seems this particular FFRDC is now letting these kiddos talk to news outlets and write articles in the press with minimal supervision... often about topics related to the task orders we are paying them to do. Sometimes they are saying the most idiotic things to get attention and I know the report we paid them for will have their names as coauthors on it, which just invites the current administration to give us even more hassle. It's incredibly frustrating.

Mitre?

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Anonymous wrote:
This is really sad. It’s not like the problems facing IRS IT, CMS, DHS, etc are just going away. There will be need for at least some of these services in the future, but the knowledge needed for these services will be gone and will cost the country more in the long run.

Another former Mitre employee here.
Any layoff is "sad" but in the case of Mitre (poor leadership, changes in direction, not taking on true FFRDC work, hiring less-experienced staff not SMEs and especially high overhead) the downsizing is completely predictable, DOGE or no-DOGE.

No, in many cases the knowledge isn't gone because Mitre employees will jump back into for-profit government contracting, *if* they have relevant current skills (like I did when I decided to leave). And not every contractor is experiencing a bloodbath because my very-large employer has had relatively few layoffs, and redirected DOGE-affected staff to new work. There were some layoffs in my current agency work group but they were either known non-producers or their projects were cut.

+1

Anonymous wrote:
This is really sad. It’s not like the problems facing IRS IT, CMS, DHS, etc are just going away. There will be need for at least some of these services in the future, but the knowledge needed for these services will be gone and will cost the country more in the long run.

Another former Mitre employee here.
Any layoff is "sad" but in the case of Mitre (poor leadership, changes in direction, not taking on true FFRDC work, hiring less-experienced staff not SMEs and especially high overhead) the downsizing is completely predictable, DOGE or no-DOGE.

No, in many cases the knowledge isn't gone because Mitre employees will jump back into for-profit government contracting, *if* they have relevant current skills (like I did when I decided to leave). And not every contractor is experiencing a bloodbath because my very-large employer has had relatively few layoffs, and redirected DOGE-affected staff to new work. There were some layoffs in my current agency work group but they were either known non-producers or their projects were cut.

The new MITRE CEO appears to be nice, empathetic and well-meaning but the RIF measures are simply reactive with no creative, imaginative or defiant plans. It appears the strategy is to shed employees until things level-off. Frankly, anyone can do that.

I completely agree

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Anonymous wrote:So far, over 1,000 MITRE employees laid off and more RIFs might come in summer/fall. The"new normal" under Trump.

No, Mitre always laid off employees when work levels were low... it was quietly handled and not obvious. I was laid off apx. 10+ years ago, along with several colleagues, because Mitre couldn't find me a suitable assignment that wasn't 30-50+ miles away. I could not commute from NoVA to sites in Maryland with strict school and daycare pickup schedules. Mitre called me back within a few weeks to ask me to return to a local assignment but I had already started another job (that I still hold today).

As PP said, Mitre recently hired too many employees. Unfortunately some long-time staff were let go in favor of the younger and cheaper... but that is a topic for another thread.

These RIFs aren't that, they're due to Trump/DOGE impacts on specific Sponsor agencies. In two months, Trump/DOGE have "saved" billions by trashing IRS IT, CMS, etc. - Cutting Federal IT staff by tens of percentage points, wiping out multi-million-dollar modernization programs, ... Whether we believe those programs are necessary or not, they're not coming back any time soon. Commercial contractors and MITRE FFRDC staff supporting that Federal staff and those programs are just collateral damage.

This is really sad. It’s not like the problems facing IRS IT, CMS, DHS, etc are just going away. There will be need for at least some of these services in the future, but the knowledge needed for these services will be gone and will cost the country more in the long run.

They are non-profits and ofcourse can hire lobbying firms but them spending money on that from the overhead that Govt pays is ridiculous. Whenever I try to hire someone from FFRDCs, the FTE rates are so high that I end up hiring two equally qualified people elsewhere at that price.

RAND effectively setup a lobbying arm for Open Philanthropy to fund their preferred AI policy agenda.

I do not think someone who came from Battelle will do it, but it would be in Mitre's mid/long term best interest to reduce the number of new grad hires and to focus instead on having a smaller company with much more consistently deep technical expertise.

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Anonymous wrote:So far, over 1,000 MITRE employees laid off and more RIFs might come in summer/fall. The"new normal" under Trump.

No, Mitre always laid off employees when work levels were low... it was quietly handled and not obvious. I was laid off apx. 10+ years ago, along with several colleagues, because Mitre couldn't find me a suitable assignment that wasn't 30-50+ miles away. I could not commute from NoVA to sites in Maryland with strict school and daycare pickup schedules. Mitre called me back within a few weeks to ask me to return to a local assignment but I had already started another job (that I still hold today).

As PP said, Mitre recently hired too many employees. Unfortunately some long-time staff were let go in favor of the younger and cheaper... but that is a topic for another thread.

These RIFs aren't that, they're due to Trump/DOGE impacts on specific Sponsor agencies. In two months, Trump/DOGE have "saved" billions by trashing IRS IT, CMS, etc. - Cutting Federal IT staff by tens of percentage points, wiping out multi-million-dollar modernization programs, ... Whether we believe those programs are necessary or not, they're not coming back any time soon. Commercial contractors and MITRE FFRDC staff supporting that Federal staff and those programs are just collateral damage.

I think both can be true. MITRE would be much more resilient to Trump/DOGE if Jason wasn’t doing foolish things to grow the alt-FFRDC business.

I agree that Jason was an idiot, and the Board went along with it. But, the vast majority of the current RIFs and the next round(s) would have occurred no matter what MITRE did.
The DOGE madness would have Trumped any MITRE positioning. Commercial contractors didn't have Jason, but the same things happening to them.

That is partly because Jason emphasized growth above all else. So Mitre expanded beyond the FFRDC "sweet spot" of specialized technical expertise that is not available elsewhere. Jason pushed Mitre into doing much of the same work that commercial contractors do. This was particularly true for IT work.

If Jason had not pushed growth so much, Mitre would have had many fewer people exposed to these general IT cuts -- and Mitre would more obviously been different from Booz or ManTech or such like. Mitre under Jason moved away from the sweet spot of deep technical expertise and more into the direction of the generic IT services contractors. That shift away from specialized deep expertise made Mitre a much larger target than it would have been.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:So far, over 1,000 MITRE employees laid off and more RIFs might come in summer/fall. The"new normal" under Trump.

No, Mitre always laid off employees when work levels were low... it was quietly handled and not obvious. I was laid off apx. 10+ years ago, along with several colleagues, because Mitre couldn't find me a suitable assignment that wasn't 30-50+ miles away. I could not commute from NoVA to sites in Maryland with strict school and daycare pickup schedules. Mitre called me back within a few weeks to ask me to return to a local assignment but I had already started another job (that I still hold today).

As PP said, Mitre recently hired too many employees. Unfortunately some long-time staff were let go in favor of the younger and cheaper... but that is a topic for another thread.

These RIFs aren't that, they're due to Trump/DOGE impacts on specific Sponsor agencies. In two months, Trump/DOGE have "saved" billions by trashing IRS IT, CMS, etc. - Cutting Federal IT staff by tens of percentage points, wiping out multi-million-dollar modernization programs, ... Whether we believe those programs are necessary or not, they're not coming back any time soon. Commercial contractors and MITRE FFRDC staff supporting that Federal staff and those programs are just collateral damage.

I think both can be true. MITRE would be much more resilient to Trump/DOGE if Jason wasn’t doing foolish things to grow the alt-FFRDC business.

I agree that Jason was an idiot, and the Board went along with it. But, the vast majority of the current RIFs and the next round(s) would have occurred no matter what MITRE did.
The DOGE madness would have Trumped any MITRE positioning. Commercial contractors didn't have Jason, but the same things happening to them.

Different poster. I respectfully disagree. I don't think Jason helped MITRE prepare for these times at all. Also, comparing MITRE too ommercial contractors is apples versus oranges since they are totally different businesses.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So far, over 1,000 MITRE employees laid off and more RIFs might come in summer/fall. The"new normal" under Trump.

No, Mitre always laid off employees when work levels were low... it was quietly handled and not obvious. I was laid off apx. 10+ years ago, along with several colleagues, because Mitre couldn't find me a suitable assignment that wasn't 30-50+ miles away. I could not commute from NoVA to sites in Maryland with strict school and daycare pickup schedules. Mitre called me back within a few weeks to ask me to return to a local assignment but I had already started another job (that I still hold today).

As PP said, Mitre recently hired too many employees. Unfortunately some long-time staff were let go in favor of the younger and cheaper... but that is a topic for another thread.

These RIFs aren't that, they're due to Trump/DOGE impacts on specific Sponsor agencies. In two months, Trump/DOGE have "saved" billions by trashing IRS IT, CMS, etc. - Cutting Federal IT staff by tens of percentage points, wiping out multi-million-dollar modernization programs, ... Whether we believe those programs are necessary or not, they're not coming back any time soon. Commercial contractors and MITRE FFRDC staff supporting that Federal staff and those programs are just collateral damage.

I think both can be true. MITRE would be much more resilient to Trump/DOGE if Jason wasn’t doing foolish things to grow the alt-FFRDC business.

I agree that Jason was an idiot, and the Board went along with it. But, the vast majority of the current RIFs and the next round(s) would have occurred no matter what MITRE did.
The DOGE madness would have Trumped any MITRE positioning. Commercial contractors didn't have Jason, but the same things happening to them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So far, over 1,000 MITRE employees laid off and more RIFs might come in summer/fall. The"new normal" under Trump.

No, Mitre always laid off employees when work levels were low... it was quietly handled and not obvious. I was laid off apx. 10+ years ago, along with several colleagues, because Mitre couldn't find me a suitable assignment that wasn't 30-50+ miles away. I could not commute from NoVA to sites in Maryland with strict school and daycare pickup schedules. Mitre called me back within a few weeks to ask me to return to a local assignment but I had already started another job (that I still hold today).

As PP said, Mitre recently hired too many employees. Unfortunately some long-time staff were let go in favor of the younger and cheaper... but that is a topic for another thread.

These RIFs aren't that, they're due to Trump/DOGE impacts on specific Sponsor agencies. In two months, Trump/DOGE have "saved" billions by trashing IRS IT, CMS, etc. - Cutting Federal IT staff by tens of percentage points, wiping out multi-million-dollar modernization programs, ... Whether we believe those programs are necessary or not, they're not coming back any time soon. Commercial contractors and MITRE FFRDC staff supporting that Federal staff and those programs are just collateral damage.

I think both can be true. MITRE would be much more resilient to Trump/DOGE if Jason wasn’t doing foolish things to grow the alt-FFRDC business.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So far, over 1,000 MITRE employees laid off and more RIFs might come in summer/fall. The"new normal" under Trump.

No, Mitre always laid off employees when work levels were low... it was quietly handled and not obvious. I was laid off apx. 10+ years ago, along with several colleagues, because Mitre couldn't find me a suitable assignment that wasn't 30-50+ miles away. I could not commute from NoVA to sites in Maryland with strict school and daycare pickup schedules. Mitre called me back within a few weeks to ask me to return to a local assignment but I had already started another job (that I still hold today).

As PP said, Mitre recently hired too many employees. Unfortunately some long-time staff were let go in favor of the younger and cheaper... but that is a topic for another thread.

These RIFs aren't that, they're due to Trump/DOGE impacts on specific Sponsor agencies. In two months, Trump/DOGE have "saved" billions by trashing IRS IT, CMS, etc. - Cutting Federal IT staff by tens of percentage points, wiping out multi-million-dollar modernization programs, ... Whether we believe those programs are necessary or not, they're not coming back any time soon. Commercial contractors and MITRE FFRDC staff supporting that Federal staff and those programs are just collateral damage.