Anonymous wrote:Lack ambition. Risk kids follow same route. Attractive and ambitious wife is very important now.

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Anonymous wrote:I'll be honest since you requested it OP.

I have a low opinion of parents who do not even want to be the primary caregiver for their children when they are infants and toddlers. I think prioritizing material things and one's own career and self-fulfillment is selfish and indicates a lack of understanding of how important it is for young children to spend most of their time with someone who loves them completely and unconditionally.

A little off of your topic but completely relevant.

Your opinion clearly presumes that the parent has a choice not to work. What about the mother who works not because she prioritizes material things but because she needs to earn money to put food on the table and a roof over the kid's head? Is she selfish?

Must be difficult for you to understand the world outside of your bubble.

I'm not talking about parents who have no choice financially. I'm talking about parents who don't want to be the primary caregiver for their children when they are infants and toddlers.

We did that as a family with very little extra money, prioritizing my children over everything else.

It really just robbed your kids of many experiences.

And you robbed your children of one of the most important experiences of their lives, and one which can't be experienced later in life: of being taken care of by someone who loves you completely and totally. They will never experience that in life. Ever. And that is very sad IMO.

Maybe? My own mother was like you and now that I’m a mother I find her behavior odd. I could write a novel on her bad parenting, but let’s just say that because if it I want to work and not stay home. She was also against “strangers” raising her children and thought she was so much better than others for prioritizing child rearing over money.

And, my mom prioritized my dad and her and his careers. I ended up doing most of the cleaning, cooking and laundry to keep the peace and had to sacrifice my teen years to their needs. I could not do sports or activities because it would inconvenience them. When I worked they took my money and barely gave me spending money except a rare occasion. They constantly screamed poverty when they both had good professional jobs and were being gifted money for our college and themselves. They inherited a ton and we never saw a dime. They were quick to help others but could not be bothered getting their kid a birthday present or their grandkids. So, yup, I choose the exact opposite.

I mean, you had a bad mom. But that had nothing to do with SAH. She would have been a bad mom as a working mom too.

Frankly this is all so much nonsense because working or staying home is pretty much irrelevant to outcome. Are you an alcoholic? Prone to rages? Financially unstable? Malicious? Physically or emotionally abusive? That’s going to matter a lot more to outcome than whether you stayed home or not.

Completely agree. If parents work 40 hours and devote the rest of their time to their kids it’s all good. But, many don’t and that is the problem but that’s with working or sah parents. When we die, our jobs wil be far less important than how we did raising our kids as that is our true legacy.

I’m glad my mom worked. She hated being home with us and resented having kids. She was too busy trying to please my dad who could never be please but that cost me my teen and young adult life being their caretakers.

That's a ballsy statement to say MOST working parents don't prioritize spending time with their children outside of work.

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Anonymous wrote:I'll be honest since you requested it OP.

I have a low opinion of parents who do not even want to be the primary caregiver for their children when they are infants and toddlers. I think prioritizing material things and one's own career and self-fulfillment is selfish and indicates a lack of understanding of how important it is for young children to spend most of their time with someone who loves them completely and unconditionally.

A little off of your topic but completely relevant.

Your opinion clearly presumes that the parent has a choice not to work. What about the mother who works not because she prioritizes material things but because she needs to earn money to put food on the table and a roof over the kid's head? Is she selfish?

Must be difficult for you to understand the world outside of your bubble.

I'm not talking about parents who have no choice financially. I'm talking about parents who don't want to be the primary caregiver for their children when they are infants and toddlers.

We did that as a family with very little extra money, prioritizing my children over everything else.

It really just robbed your kids of many experiences.

And you robbed your children of one of the most important experiences of their lives, and one which can't be experienced later in life: of being taken care of by someone who loves you completely and totally. They will never experience that in life. Ever. And that is very sad IMO.

Maybe? My own mother was like you and now that I’m a mother I find her behavior odd. I could write a novel on her bad parenting, but let’s just say that because if it I want to work and not stay home. She was also against “strangers” raising her children and thought she was so much better than others for prioritizing child rearing over money.

And, my mom prioritized my dad and her and his careers. I ended up doing most of the cleaning, cooking and laundry to keep the peace and had to sacrifice my teen years to their needs. I could not do sports or activities because it would inconvenience them. When I worked they took my money and barely gave me spending money except a rare occasion. They constantly screamed poverty when they both had good professional jobs and were being gifted money for our college and themselves. They inherited a ton and we never saw a dime. They were quick to help others but could not be bothered getting their kid a birthday present or their grandkids. So, yup, I choose the exact opposite.

I mean, you had a bad mom. But that had nothing to do with SAH. She would have been a bad mom as a working mom too.

Frankly this is all so much nonsense because working or staying home is pretty much irrelevant to outcome. Are you an alcoholic? Prone to rages? Financially unstable? Malicious? Physically or emotionally abusive? That’s going to matter a lot more to outcome than whether you stayed home or not.

Completely agree. If parents work 40 hours and devote the rest of their time to their kids it’s all good. But, many don’t and that is the problem but that’s with working or sah parents. When we die, our jobs wil be far less important than how we did raising our kids as that is our true legacy.

I’m glad my mom worked. She hated being home with us and resented having kids. She was too busy trying to please my dad who could never be please but that cost me my teen and young adult life being their caretakers.

That's a ballsy statement to say MOST working parents don't prioritize spending time with their children outside of work.

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Anonymous wrote:I'll be honest since you requested it OP.

I have a low opinion of parents who do not even want to be the primary caregiver for their children when they are infants and toddlers. I think prioritizing material things and one's own career and self-fulfillment is selfish and indicates a lack of understanding of how important it is for young children to spend most of their time with someone who loves them completely and unconditionally.

A little off of your topic but completely relevant.

Your opinion clearly presumes that the parent has a choice not to work. What about the mother who works not because she prioritizes material things but because she needs to earn money to put food on the table and a roof over the kid's head? Is she selfish?

Must be difficult for you to understand the world outside of your bubble.

I'm not talking about parents who have no choice financially. I'm talking about parents who don't want to be the primary caregiver for their children when they are infants and toddlers.

We did that as a family with very little extra money, prioritizing my children over everything else.

It really just robbed your kids of many experiences.

And you robbed your children of one of the most important experiences of their lives, and one which can't be experienced later in life: of being taken care of by someone who loves you completely and totally. They will never experience that in life. Ever. And that is very sad IMO.

Maybe? My own mother was like you and now that I’m a mother I find her behavior odd. I could write a novel on her bad parenting, but let’s just say that because if it I want to work and not stay home. She was also against “strangers” raising her children and thought she was so much better than others for prioritizing child rearing over money.

And, my mom prioritized my dad and her and his careers. I ended up doing most of the cleaning, cooking and laundry to keep the peace and had to sacrifice my teen years to their needs. I could not do sports or activities because it would inconvenience them. When I worked they took my money and barely gave me spending money except a rare occasion. They constantly screamed poverty when they both had good professional jobs and were being gifted money for our college and themselves. They inherited a ton and we never saw a dime. They were quick to help others but could not be bothered getting their kid a birthday present or their grandkids. So, yup, I choose the exact opposite.

I mean, you had a bad mom. But that had nothing to do with SAH. She would have been a bad mom as a working mom too.

Frankly this is all so much nonsense because working or staying home is pretty much irrelevant to outcome. Are you an alcoholic? Prone to rages? Financially unstable? Malicious? Physically or emotionally abusive? That’s going to matter a lot more to outcome than whether you stayed home or not.

Completely agree. If parents work 40 hours and devote the rest of their time to their kids it’s all good. But, many don’t and that is the problem but that’s with working or sah parents. When we die, our jobs wil be far less important than how we did raising our kids as that is our true legacy.

I’m glad my mom worked. She hated being home with us and resented having kids. She was too busy trying to please my dad who could never be please but that cost me my teen and young adult life being their caretakers.

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think anything about them. I don’t waste my time thinking about other people choices if they don’t affect me.

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Anonymous wrote:I'll be honest since you requested it OP.

I have a low opinion of parents who do not even want to be the primary caregiver for their children when they are infants and toddlers. I think prioritizing material things and one's own career and self-fulfillment is selfish and indicates a lack of understanding of how important it is for young children to spend most of their time with someone who loves them completely and unconditionally.

A little off of your topic but completely relevant.

Your opinion clearly presumes that the parent has a choice not to work. What about the mother who works not because she prioritizes material things but because she needs to earn money to put food on the table and a roof over the kid's head? Is she selfish?

Must be difficult for you to understand the world outside of your bubble.

I'm not talking about parents who have no choice financially. I'm talking about parents who don't want to be the primary caregiver for their children when they are infants and toddlers.

We did that as a family with very little extra money, prioritizing my children over everything else.

It really just robbed your kids of many experiences.

And you robbed your children of one of the most important experiences of their lives, and one which can't be experienced later in life: of being taken care of by someone who loves you completely and totally. They will never experience that in life. Ever. And that is very sad IMO.

Maybe? My own mother was like you and now that I’m a mother I find her behavior odd. I could write a novel on her bad parenting, but let’s just say that because if it I want to work and not stay home. She was also against “strangers” raising her children and thought she was so much better than others for prioritizing child rearing over money.

I mean, so what. I don't understand how a post about your own mother proves anything. Maybe you're a better person because you weren't raised by strangers who didn't love you and only saw you as a paycheck, despite how little your respect your mother.

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Anonymous wrote:I want to know what their Plan B is when the kids leave for college or if a divorce happens.

Plan B: For college - enjoy the freedom of not being a cook, housekeeper, laundry, and personal driver. If divorce happens, my spouse knows I'll go after everything but I cannot imagine divorce happening. The bigger concern is death and we have a paid-off house, college fund, savings and I'd get social security. And, life insurance. I could pick up a basic job if I wanted/needed to and be just fine. Believe it or not, some plan for these things. Death worries me more. I hope to die first.

Sounds like my best friend, except it took him 10 years to die. It drained their finances. He was 40 when he got sick. Social security is decades away and not that much when someone only working until 40.

We have good health insurance so thankfully it would only be a drain for a nursing home and I'd never do that to my spouse if I could avoid it. Same with my spouse. We are older so it's not decades away and as a spouse, with kids, you get survivor's benefits. And, I'd get my husband's small pension on top of social security, plus life insurance. And, that's why we made sure to live within our means, save and do things like pay off the house.

My father died young leaving my mother with five kids, two of them adults. She never worked outside the home. When he died she had a paid off house, SS, pension and 100% paid health insurance, now Medicare supplement. Even with inflation she still does ok and won’t let anyone help her financially.

It’s not automatic destitution when a woman is widowed young.

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Anonymous wrote:I want to know what their Plan B is when the kids leave for college or if a divorce happens.

Plan B: For college - enjoy the freedom of not being a cook, housekeeper, laundry, and personal driver. If divorce happens, my spouse knows I'll go after everything but I cannot imagine divorce happening. The bigger concern is death and we have a paid-off house, college fund, savings and I'd get social security. And, life insurance. I could pick up a basic job if I wanted/needed to and be just fine. Believe it or not, some plan for these things. Death worries me more. I hope to die first.

Sounds like my best friend, except it took him 10 years to die. It drained their finances. He was 40 when he got sick. Social security is decades away and not that much when someone only working until 40.

We have good health insurance so thankfully it would only be a drain for a nursing home and I'd never do that to my spouse if I could avoid it. Same with my spouse. We are older so it's not decades away and as a spouse, with kids, you get survivor's benefits. And, I'd get my husband's small pension on top of social security, plus life insurance. And, that's why we made sure to live within our means, save and do things like pay off the house.

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Anonymous wrote:I've been reading this board for more than ten years, and have always worked, adn needed to work. I was a child prodigy and today am tremendously successful in a field of biomedicine where I both do good and make quite a bit of money.
I have a DH who also makes plenty of money and works hard, but not like big law.
AS my kids finish elementary school I am so, so, tired. I am not doing the best job at either my work, where I increasingly realize my colleagues are childless or empty nesters and fitness nuts. I have a SN child and my other is high needs. I have a fantastic nanny, family in town and a great, helpful DH who does it all, but there is still too much.

I do not know what the answer is and I could not SAH - my nanny is better at most things than me, and we are sending my kids to private to deal with the rest, but..it is too much. So if SAH is working for someone, who am I to judge? (I know this last comment is virtually sacrilege on DCUM, but I told you I was tired!)

The answer is not to have children if you want an important career. You can't do well at both. Chose the career -- and spare the humans you are forcing to sacrifice on your behalf.

Is this advice for men or only directed as women?

Why would you want a country where only men continue to have careers after having children?

Did you not read the post you are responding to? it says SKIP having kids and just focus on your career.

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Anonymous wrote:I'll be honest since you requested it OP.

I have a low opinion of parents who do not even want to be the primary caregiver for their children when they are infants and toddlers. I think prioritizing material things and one's own career and self-fulfillment is selfish and indicates a lack of understanding of how important it is for young children to spend most of their time with someone who loves them completely and unconditionally.

A little off of your topic but completely relevant.

Your opinion clearly presumes that the parent has a choice not to work. What about the mother who works not because she prioritizes material things but because she needs to earn money to put food on the table and a roof over the kid's head? Is she selfish?

Must be difficult for you to understand the world outside of your bubble.

I'm not talking about parents who have no choice financially. I'm talking about parents who don't want to be the primary caregiver for their children when they are infants and toddlers.

We did that as a family with very little extra money, prioritizing my children over everything else.

It really just robbed your kids of many experiences.

And you robbed your children of one of the most important experiences of their lives, and one which can't be experienced later in life: of being taken care of by someone who loves you completely and totally. They will never experience that in life. Ever. And that is very sad IMO.

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Anonymous wrote:It depends HOW they do it. My mother was a SAHM and our house was always dirty and she was always laying on the couch in her nightgown watching soaps and talk shows when I came home. It wasn't some super clean house with cookies fresh from the oven after school. She never made me breakfast. She never decorated the house for any holidays. She often "forgot" to take anything out to defrost for dinner and we scrambled to pull together a meal.

So someone like that, I don't feel good. A friend of mine is a SAHM and she gets dressed each morning when her kids do, makes them breakfast, makes their lunches with them, keeps up the house, is always arranging play dates, does holiday decor, makes homemade treats for her kids to pass out to their classes for their birthdays, invites people over spontaneously, etc. She's a great SAHM. She treats it like a full time job.

I'm married to one. She's amazing. She gets up at 4:20, at the gym by 5:15. While she's gone I get up and make breakfast, get the kids ready for the day. She returns from the gym, I go to work, she starts teaching the kids. Takes them to ski club (where she volunteers), swim, etc. Yeah, I know, we have 4 kids and homeschool so DCUM thinks we're wacko extremists. But really, public school sucks, Catholic school was meh, with homeschooling there are now more options than there are at most schools. All 4 kids have some live online classes, in-home piano lessons, math tutoring from a local engineering student, etc.

Obviously I'm the breadwinner but I try to keep it to 40 hours so I can help with meals, weeknight activities, etc.

Our perspective is that her time is so valuable that we can't afford for her to work elsewhere. I know I'm being annoying by bragging on her, but it definitely works for us and I think more people would be happy doing this if they could get over the perceived social stigma.