Anonymous
Post 06/24/2023 14:09     Subject: Re:Russia - civil war has broken out
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Those of you hoping for a "coup" or regime change.......

Does it occur to you that regime change might make Russia even worse?
I think Putin is a dangerous dictator, but will people from the Wagner Group be better?

I’m no expert (and some here actually are; I barely follow this stuff) but yes, I know it could be worse. The thing is that Putin is terrible. For two quick examples, his invasion of Ukraine and his treatment of Alexei Navalny.

Also my weakly hoping for Putin to be deposed isn’t really going to move the needle anywhere. I just wish Putin were gone and that some of the promise of democracy that Russia had in the early 90s could be realized.

Russia lived a hungry life under that promise and they won’t forget it. They are completely disillusioned about the West and democracy (didn’t turn out well for them). I don’t think there is any hope now. It will always be some level of autocracy
Anonymous
Post 06/24/2023 14:08     Subject: Russia - civil war has broken out
Anonymous wrote:Why do translations of “official” statements in russian always look like beuracratic gobbledygook. It’s like words don’t have any meaning. I understand the point of the above statement from the mayor, but it’s very weird.
Does it just not translate? Is it lost in translation?


Anything you translate word for word from Russian (and many other languages) is going to be a mess. They have tenses, grammar rules and declinations that English does not. So, you can translate the exact word, or you can translate the meaning of the statement. But, if you translate the meaning of something so politically charged, you open yourself up to accusations of bias in your translation. So, gobbledegook it is.
Anonymous
Post 06/24/2023 14:04     Subject: Re:Russia - civil war has broken out
Anonymous wrote:Those of you hoping for a "coup" or regime change.......

Does it occur to you that regime change might make Russia even worse?
I think Putin is a dangerous dictator, but will people from the Wagner Group be better?


Moot point
Anonymous
Post 06/24/2023 14:03     Subject: Russia - civil war has broken out
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’m dumb, can someone put this all into context for me???


A significant part of the Russian forces in ukraine which is a private army suddenly turns back into Russia and takes one of the border cities (no victims). The head demands talks with the army top officials. The talks take place. Not clear what’s next. Many cities are on high alert; roads between them blocked.
Not much change for ordinary civilians going about their day


Yeah. Talks must be going well. No change for the civilians. Yup.



Now let’s admit I was right
Anonymous
Post 06/24/2023 13:59     Subject: Russia - civil war has broken out
Anonymous wrote:but this makes putin look weak. surely he'll have to kill the Wagner chief


Yeah. Wagner may be ready to go back to Ukraine and keep warring there but there are some hints that it won't go like that.
Anonymous
Post 06/24/2023 13:58     Subject: Russia - civil war has broken out
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Wagner will eventually run out of ammunition and weaponry unless a foreign entity steps in as a supplier, which is doubtful. They need Russian soldiers to join the fight. It’s a long shot. Definitely a diversion from war in Ukraine that helps Ukraine refortify and recover more of its land.


No. It all depends on which way the Russian air forces goes. They may just stand down or join the rebels.


You seriously think the Russian Air Force will bomb its own cities? Get real. They could, but that will be the last thing they ever do. Once word of that spreads, there will be no Russia anymore and it's disintegration into anarchy won't take two years - it'll be two months.


Oh yes they will bomb their own cities. If you do not know that you are very naive.


Sorry, cupcake. I'm not naive at all. This is not about the 'plausible deniability' bombings, this is about using Russian military jets (bombers, fighters) to bomb Russian cities deep inside Russia in civilian locations. There are limits and lines that cannot be crossed, or there will be widespread panic within the country. If a full-out fight develops, the panic you're seeing now at railway stations and airports will turn into an outright exodus.

Roll back the clock a month. Remember the outrage and shock by the propagandists that a border area was attacked? This goes way, way beyond that. This goes to Putin's inability to deliver safety and security. That, my friend, is the point of no return.


You statement shows your naivety. Putin has already declared the Wagner group as criminals. Putin’s forces will do any and everything to stop and kill them. The wagner group have tanks and artillery. Lol at your “there are limits”. There are only winner and the dead.

! You really have no clue. Putin would destroy Moscow before giving up power.
Anonymous
Post 06/24/2023 13:55     Subject: Russia - civil war has broken out
but this makes putin look weak. surely he'll have to kill the Wagner chief
Anonymous
Post 06/24/2023 13:50     Subject: Russia - civil war has broken out
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Breaking : Wagner group has agreed to stop troop movement, deescalate.



https://twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1672653544439136260



Disinformation is normal for both Russia and their puppet, Belarus.

I will believe it when it appears on BBC news (they have excellent coverage of the Ukraine conflict, BTW).


Here it is from AP:
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-wagner-prigozhin-9acbdf1eda849692ca0423a4116058d1



Twitter broke it first .

Amazing
Anonymous
Post 06/24/2023 13:50     Subject: Russia - civil war has broken out
Hmm. You really think Shoigu and Gerasimov is just gonna take it? You really think Prigozhin will 'see the light' and go quietly off to trial?

Okay.

(Pfft..)
Anonymous
Post 06/24/2023 13:49     Subject: Russia - civil war has broken out
So that’s it?


Lolz.
Anonymous
Post 06/24/2023 13:48     Subject: Russia - civil war has broken out
And all of this goes to show how fragile Russia is.
Anonymous
Post 06/24/2023 13:47     Subject: Russia - civil war has broken out
Reportedly, Lukashenko supposedly brokered a deal in which Prigozhin will back down in exchange for removing Shoigu and Gerasimov from the Russian Ministry of Defense. Removing Shoigu and Gerasimov was Prigozhin's stated aim, though he also wanted to see Shoigu hanged on Red Square.
Anonymous
Post 06/24/2023 13:45     Subject: Russia - civil war has broken out
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Breaking : Wagner group has agreed to stop troop movement, deescalate.



https://twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1672653544439136260



Disinformation is normal for both Russia and their puppet, Belarus.

I will believe it when it appears on BBC news (they have excellent coverage of the Ukraine conflict, BTW).


Here it is from AP:
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-wagner-prigozhin-9acbdf1eda849692ca0423a4116058d1
Anonymous
Post 06/24/2023 13:45     Subject: Russia - civil war has broken out
Oh well. Guess the excitement is over.
Anonymous
Post 06/24/2023 13:42     Subject: Russia - civil war has broken out
Anonymous wrote:So who is in control of the nukes pointed at the USA? Seems like a good time to launch and blame it on chaos.


It’s a scary thought. But nothing the Russians make operates dependably. They are only good at making nesting dolls and vodka.