Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think I'd just assume that Yarl is some sweet young teen. A teen, yes. But a kid like that coming up to your front door out of the blue, as you look upward from laying on your couch? Yeah that's scary.

I also think this grandson was pretty disloyal, taking advantage of the situation to build his street cred.

But both these things are beside the point. Gun control undermines the Republican Party far more than Democrat. Peaceniks by definition don't carry guns, and they vote Democrat. People who love guns vote Republican, and they rocket fuel the party's power. So if you take away the guns you take away the power of the party's most loyal and effective foot soldiers. That ain't right.

What do you mean by that?

Anonymous wrote:I don't think I'd just assume that Yarl is some sweet young teen. A teen, yes. But a kid like that coming up to your front door out of the blue, as you look upward from laying on your couch? Yeah that's scary.

I also think this grandson was pretty disloyal, taking advantage of the situation to build his street cred.

But both these things are beside the point. Gun control undermines the Republican Party far more than Democrat. Peaceniks by definition don't carry guns, and they vote Democrat. People who love guns vote Republican, and they rocket fuel the party's power. So if you take away the guns you take away the power of the party's most loyal and effective foot soldiers. That ain't right.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My heart is broken for this young boy. He will never be the same child after this incident. No money in the world can repair the emotional damage. I hope that he has loving family and friends around him to support him through this tragedy and that he receives professional help as well. He deserves everything good coming to him.

I also hope the man who did this gets punished to the full extend of the law. In my eyes, this is attempted murder and he should be locked up in federal prison for the rest of his life even if he lives just another few months. What a horrible person to do such a thing. I don't know what it is going to take, but the gun issue needs to be addressed desperately. Hate and guns are ruining our society.

Look, obviously Andrew Lester deserves to go to jail for this. But I want to point out that this is an 84 year old man who, unless I’m wrong, did not have a prior police record. 84. He has outlived his expected life by 11 years and yes, maybe he was a racist a$&, and now he is going to jail for shooting an innocent kid who was just trying to take his siblings home. This is frightening because it means literally no one is safe from being shot through a door in this country. And it’s all because of the ease of getting guns. If we had strict gun control, perhaps Andrew Lester wouldn’t have been afraid that the knock on his door was the prelude to an armed invasion. If we had strict gun control, perhaps Andrew Lester would not have been affected by all the macho posturing of “stand your ground” and the “good guy with a gun” bulls$&t. He would just be another racist a$&hole, but not one that shot a child in the head. I hope he gets prosecuted, but in a way he is yet another victim of our asinine gun culture which has brainwashed otherwise law abiding people into vigilantes. Not as much as the tragic people who killed their own loved ones, thinking they were intruders, like this case

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article264787839.html

There are so many cases of people shooting innocent people at their homes and even their own loved ones by mistake. I wish we could just throw all the guns into the fires of Mordor and have a hobbit party afterwards. Sorry for my rant.

How can you defend garbage like that? The old man belongs in prison. I hope he gets time. Not one single politician in office has the balls to bring back strict gun laws.

When people look back at this tragic stupid chapter in American history, Andrew Lester will be one of the many many people who did bad things in the setting of a culture that worshipped guns, convinced the gullible that guns were the answer, believed people of color and woke libs were the enemy, and that shooting a kid through a closed door was justified. I am defending him in the sense of saying the problem is way way way bigger than one old racist attempted murderer. It’s a whole culture that is creating them that needs our anger and focus. He’s not like the idaho murderer guy, a one off serial killer. There are many Andrew Lesters out there who watch too much news max and fear the wrong things. It’s not just coincidence that nearly the same thing happened in upstate ny. And so many other times in the recent past if you do a quick google. Ralph’s case stands out because he was so truly innocent, so I hope it brings focus to all the other similar cases in which innocent people were killed or injured by guns. And then widen the focus and now you include all the kids and adults that were shot by children finding guns in the car or house. It’s all part of the same spectrum, all chapters in the stupid times we are living in.

This was me. Today nytimes published this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/20/us/wrong-house-shootings-guns.html

I knew I wasn’t alone in thinking this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My heart is broken for this young boy. He will never be the same child after this incident. No money in the world can repair the emotional damage. I hope that he has loving family and friends around him to support him through this tragedy and that he receives professional help as well. He deserves everything good coming to him.

I also hope the man who did this gets punished to the full extend of the law. In my eyes, this is attempted murder and he should be locked up in federal prison for the rest of his life even if he lives just another few months. What a horrible person to do such a thing. I don't know what it is going to take, but the gun issue needs to be addressed desperately. Hate and guns are ruining our society.

Look, obviously Andrew Lester deserves to go to jail for this. But I want to point out that this is an 84 year old man who, unless I’m wrong, did not have a prior police record. 84. He has outlived his expected life by 11 years and yes, maybe he was a racist a$&, and now he is going to jail for shooting an innocent kid who was just trying to take his siblings home. This is frightening because it means literally no one is safe from being shot through a door in this country. And it’s all because of the ease of getting guns. If we had strict gun control, perhaps Andrew Lester wouldn’t have been afraid that the knock on his door was the prelude to an armed invasion. If we had strict gun control, perhaps Andrew Lester would not have been affected by all the macho posturing of “stand your ground” and the “good guy with a gun” bulls$&t. He would just be another racist a$&hole, but not one that shot a child in the head. I hope he gets prosecuted, but in a way he is yet another victim of our asinine gun culture which has brainwashed otherwise law abiding people into vigilantes. Not as much as the tragic people who killed their own loved ones, thinking they were intruders, like this case

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article264787839.html

There are so many cases of people shooting innocent people at their homes and even their own loved ones by mistake. I wish we could just throw all the guns into the fires of Mordor and have a hobbit party afterwards. Sorry for my rant.

How can you defend garbage like that? The old man belongs in prison. I hope he gets time. Not one single politician in office has the balls to bring back strict gun laws.

When people look back at this tragic stupid chapter in American history, Andrew Lester will be one of the many many people who did bad things in the setting of a culture that worshipped guns, convinced the gullible that guns were the answer, believed people of color and woke libs were the enemy, and that shooting a kid through a closed door was justified. I am defending him in the sense of saying the problem is way way way bigger than one old racist attempted murderer. It’s a whole culture that is creating them that needs our anger and focus. He’s not like the idaho murderer guy, a one off serial killer. There are many Andrew Lesters out there who watch too much news max and fear the wrong things. It’s not just coincidence that nearly the same thing happened in upstate ny. And so many other times in the recent past if you do a quick google. Ralph’s case stands out because he was so truly innocent, so I hope it brings focus to all the other similar cases in which innocent people were killed or injured by guns. And then widen the focus and now you include all the kids and adults that were shot by children finding guns in the car or house. It’s all part of the same spectrum, all chapters in the stupid times we are living in.

Anonymous wrote:Of course the procecutor is saying that. . . . Listen, I'm not defending this man's actions. I'm just urging people here and elsewhere to stop jumping to conclusions. Don't parrot the voices on TV and in DC that seem to love to push this narrative. No nuance. No discussion. No evidence before being called tone of the most vile thing a person can be called. The elite media and elite politicians do not care. Let's blindly allow them to lead us to more division.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course the procecutor is saying that. . . . Listen, I'm not defending this man's actions. I'm just urging people here and elsewhere to stop jumping to conclusions. Don't parrot the voices on TV and in DC that seem to love to push this narrative. No nuance. No discussion. No evidence before being called tone of the most vile thing a person can be called. The elite media and elite politicians do not care. Let's blindly allow them to lead us to more division.

The division is already there--has always been there. We are a nation that was founded with violence, including the near-destruction of the native population and the horrific slave trade. Trying to paper over all of that doesn't make it better. We need to understand who we are, deal with systemic issues that keep different groups of people down, and then try to move forward together. I have hope that the younger generations will eventually get there. But we're not there yet and not talking about it isn't going to magically make the issues go away.

Please tell us which nations don't have a similar history.

There are many that don't--not all countries have been empires or part of empires. That being said, we were supposed to be different. We were supposed to be the giant "melting pot," the haven for the religiously persecuted, the politically persecuted, the poor, the downtrodden etc. We are literally founded on the notion of giving people a second chance in life. Or at least that's what many of us have been led to believe. So we should be better than we are. We should always strive to be better.

PP here. Of course, we should do and be better. We should also be encouraging our young people to be respectful to one another and have respect for authority figures, work hard in school, earn a degree that will provide a living, etc. This constant self flagellation and telling kids they can have a pass for criminal behavior is going to be very harmful for their futures. I'll add that there's not a country without rulers, kings, tribes, warriors, noblemen, etc without a history of violence and the subjugation of those beneath them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course the procecutor is saying that. . . . Listen, I'm not defending this man's actions. I'm just urging people here and elsewhere to stop jumping to conclusions. Don't parrot the voices on TV and in DC that seem to love to push this narrative. No nuance. No discussion. No evidence before being called tone of the most vile thing a person can be called. The elite media and elite politicians do not care. Let's blindly allow them to lead us to more division.

The division is already there--has always been there. We are a nation that was founded with violence, including the near-destruction of the native population and the horrific slave trade. Trying to paper over all of that doesn't make it better. We need to understand who we are, deal with systemic issues that keep different groups of people down, and then try to move forward together. I have hope that the younger generations will eventually get there. But we're not there yet and not talking about it isn't going to magically make the issues go away.

Please tell us which nations don't have a similar history.

There are many that don't--not all countries have been empires or part of empires. That being said, we were supposed to be different. We were supposed to be the giant "melting pot," the haven for the religiously persecuted, the politically persecuted, the poor, the downtrodden etc. We are literally founded on the notion of giving people a second chance in life. Or at least that's what many of us have been led to believe. So we should be better than we are. We should always strive to be better.

PP here. Of course, we should do and be better. We should also be encouraging our young people to be respectful to one another and have respect for authority figures, work hard in school, earn a degree that will provide a living, etc. This constant self flagellation and telling kids they can have a pass for criminal behavior is going to be very harmful for their futures. I'll add that there's not a country without rulers, kings, tribes, warriors, noblemen, etc without a history of violence and the subjugation of those beneath them.

The shooter's grandson already is on the news outlets attesting to his grandfather's bigotry and extreme racism.

This is a tragedy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course the procecutor is saying that. . . . Listen, I'm not defending this man's actions. I'm just urging people here and elsewhere to stop jumping to conclusions. Don't parrot the voices on TV and in DC that seem to love to push this narrative. No nuance. No discussion. No evidence before being called tone of the most vile thing a person can be called. The elite media and elite politicians do not care. Let's blindly allow them to lead us to more division.

The division is already there--has always been there. We are a nation that was founded with violence, including the near-destruction of the native population and the horrific slave trade. Trying to paper over all of that doesn't make it better. We need to understand who we are, deal with systemic issues that keep different groups of people down, and then try to move forward together. I have hope that the younger generations will eventually get there. But we're not there yet and not talking about it isn't going to magically make the issues go away.

Please tell us which nations don't have a similar history.

There are many that don't--not all countries have been empires or part of empires. That being said, we were supposed to be different. We were supposed to be the giant "melting pot," the haven for the religiously persecuted, the politically persecuted, the poor, the downtrodden etc. We are literally founded on the notion of giving people a second chance in life. Or at least that's what many of us have been led to believe. So we should be better than we are. We should always strive to be better.

PP here. Of course, we should do and be better. We should also be encouraging our young people to be respectful to one another and have respect for authority figures, work hard in school, earn a degree that will provide a living, etc. This constant self flagellation and telling kids they can have a pass for criminal behavior is going to be very harmful for their futures. I'll add that there's not a country without rulers, kings, tribes, warriors, noblemen, etc without a history of violence and the subjugation of those beneath them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course the procecutor is saying that. . . . Listen, I'm not defending this man's actions. I'm just urging people here and elsewhere to stop jumping to conclusions. Don't parrot the voices on TV and in DC that seem to love to push this narrative. No nuance. No discussion. No evidence before being called tone of the most vile thing a person can be called. The elite media and elite politicians do not care. Let's blindly allow them to lead us to more division.

The division is already there--has always been there. We are a nation that was founded with violence, including the near-destruction of the native population and the horrific slave trade. Trying to paper over all of that doesn't make it better. We need to understand who we are, deal with systemic issues that keep different groups of people down, and then try to move forward together. I have hope that the younger generations will eventually get there. But we're not there yet and not talking about it isn't going to magically make the issues go away.

Please tell us which nations don't have a similar history.

There are many that don't--not all countries have been empires or part of empires. That being said, we were supposed to be different. We were supposed to be the giant "melting pot," the haven for the religiously persecuted, the politically persecuted, the poor, the downtrodden etc. We are literally founded on the notion of giving people a second chance in life. Or at least that's what many of us have been led to believe. So we should be better than we are. We should always strive to be better.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From what his ex-wife says, he was abusive toward her. Unless you know that she is black, I think you are applying racism to this terrible tragedy. Pleas stop causing further division by crying "RASCIST" at every turn. It is not helpful. It divides. And it does help people who are actual victims of racism.

I think you have a very limited view of what racism is. Did this guy hate black people and want to harm them? Most likely no. Were his responses to this kid based on the color of this kid’s skin? Most likely yes. He saw a black kid on his doorstep who objectively looks like every other slightly dorky band kid ever (I know - I have one). What did he see? A criminal. It is hard to believe there was no implicit bias there. He saw what he was conditioned to believe - that black men are a threat and so he needed to protect himself.

Trying to eliminate these biases is why we talk about the state of racism in the country. But apparently talking about unconscious biases or institutional racism is “CRT” or “woke” or something. We need to get better if we want to prevent race from being a factor in things like this. And currently, the people who don’t want to be made uncomfortable are pushing back on us thinking about our own societal biases.

I agree PP. But I also think it's more than just about being made uncomfortable--I really think that Republicans are being force-fed the notion that all the groups that are asking for respect, equality under the law, and equality of opportunity are actually trying to take something away from them , be it money, jobs, other resources, college admission, etc. And a corollary of that is that they think those "other" people don't deserve it or, that they're trying to pull something over "regular" Americans.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah there's no doubt he's going to get off because prosecutors have to prove that he was not scared. Okay, try to prove that any case. Any stand your ground laws? You can pretty much kill anyone for any reason and just say you were scared

I think the stand your ground laws say that it has to be “reasonable” to use deadly force under the circumstances. No jury is going to find that it is reasonable to shoot a person who rang your doorbell, without more.

But I don’t think there will be a trial here. There will be some plea deal and this guy will be left to live out his miserable life under house arrest or something.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From what his ex-wife says, he was abusive toward her. Unless you know that she is black, I think you are applying racism to this terrible tragedy. Pleas stop causing further division by crying "RASCIST" at every turn. It is not helpful. It divides. And it does help people who are actual victims of racism.

I think you have a very limited view of what racism is. Did this guy hate black people and want to harm them? Most likely no. Were his responses to this kid based on the color of this kid’s skin? Most likely yes. He saw a black kid on his doorstep who objectively looks like every other slightly dorky band kid ever (I know - I have one). What did he see? A criminal. It is hard to believe there was no implicit bias there. He saw what he was conditioned to believe - that black men are a threat and so he needed to protect himself.

Trying to eliminate these biases is why we talk about the state of racism in the country. But apparently talking about unconscious biases or institutional racism is “CRT” or “woke” or something. We need to get better if we want to prevent race from being a factor in things like this. And currently, the people who don’t want to be made uncomfortable are pushing back on us thinking about our own societal biases.