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Anonymous wrote:Who on the council is "falling all over themselves to praise police?"

The only example I can think of is Elrich's absurd covid bonuses.

I’m the PP who posted above about the council’s treatment of police. I can’t think of one time I’ve witnessed this, and I do watch council proceedings.

All one needs to do is go to certain council members’ social media accounts and search for references to the police. It’s just criticism after criticism after criticism. No support at all. Recruitment for police is down nationwide, but it is critical here.

Names? Examples?

Hucker and Jawando were the worst. Riemer on occasion.

This new Council? Mink.

So 2 out of 11 current councilmembers are by themselves making police work so difficult that they need to reduce traffic stops by 2/3? Through their Twitter posts.

Well, I suppose if you limit their impact to solely social media.

But don't forget the 30+ new legal mandates they've placed on police over the past 2 years, and all the negative discussion that surrounded those deliberations.

I was about to post this. Thank you.

That sounds very persuasive but the police themselves are not blaming the "30+ legal mandates" for the work stoppage. They are blaming the "rhetoric". And I actually have listened to council sessions and find the notion that the rhetoric during the sessions was in any way offensive or abusive towards police hilarious. There are current and former councilmembers that are abusive bullies. Jawando, Hucker, Riemer and Mink are not in this group.

Have you been listening to the council for the past couple of years? You don’t see the hostility?

In any case, it doesn’t matter if you see it. We went from full recruit classes and the pick of applicants to barely being able to fill a class. This used to be the county law enforcement officers wanted to work for. It was a premier department. Now we can’t keep pace with any of the neighboring counties. The word is out that officers aren’t supported. It doesn’t matter whether you see it. Others do.

I think that MCPD has been saying "We're not like those other terrible police departments!" and that's true, but that doesn't mean there aren't also problems with MCPD. Plus the Montgomery County Council doesn't have legislative and funding authority over those other terrible police departments; it has legislative and funding authority over MCPD.

How is recruiting for the Gaithersburg PD and the Rockville PD, by the way?

And the problems are? What I see is a lot of localizing national issues where it is just not relevant. Or crazy nitpicking.

People should be grateful that we have MCPD and not those other police departments. My fear is that this constant and ridiculous barrage against MCPD will only lead in one direction, MCPD getting worse.

Well, there you go. There are problems, but you don't consider them serious, just "crazy nitpicking".

Am I grateful that we have MCPD and not, for example, NYPD? Yes, I am. I think it's reasonable to expect more from our police department than merely "less bad than other police departments that are notoriously terrible".

What are the problems? Please identify them and be specific.

Honestly, PP. For any problems here, short of police murder, you will dismiss them as "crazy nitpicking." Are you the one who keeps saying people should listen to police officers? Well, how about you listen to people talking about their experiences with policing.

So you refuse to actually state any specific problem with MCPD? But I am supposed to just accept your word for it that it has vaguely defined “problems”? No thanks.

No, you are supposed to listen to people who have given many such examples in the public arena in real life.

+1 including on this thread but PP just denies denies denies so they can justify the fact that MCPD is totally resistant to reform. They are driving recruits away, not a small minority of the County Council. Who would want to be a part of an organization where one is expected to protect fellow officers that harass and abuse BIPOC people.

I’m a DP.
I don’t see anyone on this thread denying anything. Nobody on this thread has said MCPD is perfect. Nobody. What a couple posters HAVE said is that this department is held to a higher standard than most, and that this department is further along in reforms than most. I suspect even our council members would agree to that. This department historically has had a very strong reputation.

You are entirely wrong that MCPD drives recruits away. They are among the lowest paid in the region now. They don’t get the same support that officers in other districts get. For those entering this job, it’s pretty well known that MCPD doesn’t get a lot of support from local politicians. Those factors have affected recruitment, and yes… even our council members have been quoted acknowledging that.

As for whether they listen to the community, they do. How do I know? Because I go to community events. Regularly. If you have a complaint… MAKE IT. They collect data on all complaints, and they do follow through. Incidentally, most complaints against officers in this county actually come from other officers.

Wow. Um, this current fiscal year police have gotten 7.5% in cost of living adjustments, and an additional 7% in pay adjustments. 14.5% total increase in pay. Other county employees got about 9%. So to say leaders don't support police is just ...wow. I mean you are just blatantly lying.

Nope:
https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/council/Resources/Files/agenda/cm/2023/20230213/20230213_PS4.pdf

This document actually cites the large increases I referenced and says MCPD is now in the middle of the pack in terms of salaries. It also references the county's DROP program which not all jurisdictions have

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who on the council is "falling all over themselves to praise police?"

The only example I can think of is Elrich's absurd covid bonuses.

I’m the PP who posted above about the council’s treatment of police. I can’t think of one time I’ve witnessed this, and I do watch council proceedings.

All one needs to do is go to certain council members’ social media accounts and search for references to the police. It’s just criticism after criticism after criticism. No support at all. Recruitment for police is down nationwide, but it is critical here.

Names? Examples?

Hucker and Jawando were the worst. Riemer on occasion.

This new Council? Mink.

So 2 out of 11 current councilmembers are by themselves making police work so difficult that they need to reduce traffic stops by 2/3? Through their Twitter posts.

Well, I suppose if you limit their impact to solely social media.

But don't forget the 30+ new legal mandates they've placed on police over the past 2 years, and all the negative discussion that surrounded those deliberations.

I was about to post this. Thank you.

That sounds very persuasive but the police themselves are not blaming the "30+ legal mandates" for the work stoppage. They are blaming the "rhetoric". And I actually have listened to council sessions and find the notion that the rhetoric during the sessions was in any way offensive or abusive towards police hilarious. There are current and former councilmembers that are abusive bullies. Jawando, Hucker, Riemer and Mink are not in this group.

Have you been listening to the council for the past couple of years? You don’t see the hostility?

In any case, it doesn’t matter if you see it. We went from full recruit classes and the pick of applicants to barely being able to fill a class. This used to be the county law enforcement officers wanted to work for. It was a premier department. Now we can’t keep pace with any of the neighboring counties. The word is out that officers aren’t supported. It doesn’t matter whether you see it. Others do.

I think that MCPD has been saying "We're not like those other terrible police departments!" and that's true, but that doesn't mean there aren't also problems with MCPD. Plus the Montgomery County Council doesn't have legislative and funding authority over those other terrible police departments; it has legislative and funding authority over MCPD.

How is recruiting for the Gaithersburg PD and the Rockville PD, by the way?

And the problems are? What I see is a lot of localizing national issues where it is just not relevant. Or crazy nitpicking.

People should be grateful that we have MCPD and not those other police departments. My fear is that this constant and ridiculous barrage against MCPD will only lead in one direction, MCPD getting worse.

Well, there you go. There are problems, but you don't consider them serious, just "crazy nitpicking".

Am I grateful that we have MCPD and not, for example, NYPD? Yes, I am. I think it's reasonable to expect more from our police department than merely "less bad than other police departments that are notoriously terrible".

What are the problems? Please identify them and be specific.

Honestly, PP. For any problems here, short of police murder, you will dismiss them as "crazy nitpicking." Are you the one who keeps saying people should listen to police officers? Well, how about you listen to people talking about their experiences with policing.

So you refuse to actually state any specific problem with MCPD? But I am supposed to just accept your word for it that it has vaguely defined “problems”? No thanks.

No, you are supposed to listen to people who have given many such examples in the public arena in real life.

+1 including on this thread but PP just denies denies denies so they can justify the fact that MCPD is totally resistant to reform. They are driving recruits away, not a small minority of the County Council. Who would want to be a part of an organization where one is expected to protect fellow officers that harass and abuse BIPOC people.

I’m a DP.
I don’t see anyone on this thread denying anything. Nobody on this thread has said MCPD is perfect. Nobody. What a couple posters HAVE said is that this department is held to a higher standard than most, and that this department is further along in reforms than most. I suspect even our council members would agree to that. This department historically has had a very strong reputation.

You are entirely wrong that MCPD drives recruits away. They are among the lowest paid in the region now. They don’t get the same support that officers in other districts get. For those entering this job, it’s pretty well known that MCPD doesn’t get a lot of support from local politicians. Those factors have affected recruitment, and yes… even our council members have been quoted acknowledging that.

As for whether they listen to the community, they do. How do I know? Because I go to community events. Regularly. If you have a complaint… MAKE IT. They collect data on all complaints, and they do follow through. Incidentally, most complaints against officers in this county actually come from other officers.

Wow. Um, this current fiscal year police have gotten 7.5% in cost of living adjustments, and an additional 7% in pay adjustments. 14.5% total increase in pay. Other county employees got about 9%. So to say leaders don't support police is just ...wow. I mean you are just blatantly lying.

Nope:
https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/council/Resources/Files/agenda/cm/2023/20230213/20230213_PS4.pdf

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Anonymous wrote:Who on the council is "falling all over themselves to praise police?"

The only example I can think of is Elrich's absurd covid bonuses.

I’m the PP who posted above about the council’s treatment of police. I can’t think of one time I’ve witnessed this, and I do watch council proceedings.

All one needs to do is go to certain council members’ social media accounts and search for references to the police. It’s just criticism after criticism after criticism. No support at all. Recruitment for police is down nationwide, but it is critical here.

Names? Examples?

Hucker and Jawando were the worst. Riemer on occasion.

This new Council? Mink.

So 2 out of 11 current councilmembers are by themselves making police work so difficult that they need to reduce traffic stops by 2/3? Through their Twitter posts.

Well, I suppose if you limit their impact to solely social media.

But don't forget the 30+ new legal mandates they've placed on police over the past 2 years, and all the negative discussion that surrounded those deliberations.

I was about to post this. Thank you.

That sounds very persuasive but the police themselves are not blaming the "30+ legal mandates" for the work stoppage. They are blaming the "rhetoric". And I actually have listened to council sessions and find the notion that the rhetoric during the sessions was in any way offensive or abusive towards police hilarious. There are current and former councilmembers that are abusive bullies. Jawando, Hucker, Riemer and Mink are not in this group.

Have you been listening to the council for the past couple of years? You don’t see the hostility?

In any case, it doesn’t matter if you see it. We went from full recruit classes and the pick of applicants to barely being able to fill a class. This used to be the county law enforcement officers wanted to work for. It was a premier department. Now we can’t keep pace with any of the neighboring counties. The word is out that officers aren’t supported. It doesn’t matter whether you see it. Others do.

I think that MCPD has been saying "We're not like those other terrible police departments!" and that's true, but that doesn't mean there aren't also problems with MCPD. Plus the Montgomery County Council doesn't have legislative and funding authority over those other terrible police departments; it has legislative and funding authority over MCPD.

How is recruiting for the Gaithersburg PD and the Rockville PD, by the way?

And the problems are? What I see is a lot of localizing national issues where it is just not relevant. Or crazy nitpicking.

People should be grateful that we have MCPD and not those other police departments. My fear is that this constant and ridiculous barrage against MCPD will only lead in one direction, MCPD getting worse.

Well, there you go. There are problems, but you don't consider them serious, just "crazy nitpicking".

Am I grateful that we have MCPD and not, for example, NYPD? Yes, I am. I think it's reasonable to expect more from our police department than merely "less bad than other police departments that are notoriously terrible".

What are the problems? Please identify them and be specific.

Honestly, PP. For any problems here, short of police murder, you will dismiss them as "crazy nitpicking." Are you the one who keeps saying people should listen to police officers? Well, how about you listen to people talking about their experiences with policing.

So you refuse to actually state any specific problem with MCPD? But I am supposed to just accept your word for it that it has vaguely defined “problems”? No thanks.

No, you are supposed to listen to people who have given many such examples in the public arena in real life.

+1 including on this thread but PP just denies denies denies so they can justify the fact that MCPD is totally resistant to reform. They are driving recruits away, not a small minority of the County Council. Who would want to be a part of an organization where one is expected to protect fellow officers that harass and abuse BIPOC people.

I’m a DP.
I don’t see anyone on this thread denying anything. Nobody on this thread has said MCPD is perfect. Nobody. What a couple posters HAVE said is that this department is held to a higher standard than most, and that this department is further along in reforms than most. I suspect even our council members would agree to that. This department historically has had a very strong reputation.

You are entirely wrong that MCPD drives recruits away. They are among the lowest paid in the region now. They don’t get the same support that officers in other districts get. For those entering this job, it’s pretty well known that MCPD doesn’t get a lot of support from local politicians. Those factors have affected recruitment, and yes… even our council members have been quoted acknowledging that.

As for whether they listen to the community, they do. How do I know? Because I go to community events. Regularly. If you have a complaint… MAKE IT. They collect data on all complaints, and they do follow through. Incidentally, most complaints against officers in this county actually come from other officers.

Wow. Um, this current fiscal year police have gotten 7.5% in cost of living adjustments, and an additional 7% in pay adjustments. 14.5% total increase in pay. Other county employees got about 9%. So to say leaders don't support police is just ...wow. I mean you are just blatantly lying.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who on the council is "falling all over themselves to praise police?"

The only example I can think of is Elrich's absurd covid bonuses.

I’m the PP who posted above about the council’s treatment of police. I can’t think of one time I’ve witnessed this, and I do watch council proceedings.

All one needs to do is go to certain council members’ social media accounts and search for references to the police. It’s just criticism after criticism after criticism. No support at all. Recruitment for police is down nationwide, but it is critical here.

Names? Examples?

Hucker and Jawando were the worst. Riemer on occasion.

This new Council? Mink.

So 2 out of 11 current councilmembers are by themselves making police work so difficult that they need to reduce traffic stops by 2/3? Through their Twitter posts.

Well, I suppose if you limit their impact to solely social media.

But don't forget the 30+ new legal mandates they've placed on police over the past 2 years, and all the negative discussion that surrounded those deliberations.

I was about to post this. Thank you.

That sounds very persuasive but the police themselves are not blaming the "30+ legal mandates" for the work stoppage. They are blaming the "rhetoric". And I actually have listened to council sessions and find the notion that the rhetoric during the sessions was in any way offensive or abusive towards police hilarious. There are current and former councilmembers that are abusive bullies. Jawando, Hucker, Riemer and Mink are not in this group.

Have you been listening to the council for the past couple of years? You don’t see the hostility?

In any case, it doesn’t matter if you see it. We went from full recruit classes and the pick of applicants to barely being able to fill a class. This used to be the county law enforcement officers wanted to work for. It was a premier department. Now we can’t keep pace with any of the neighboring counties. The word is out that officers aren’t supported. It doesn’t matter whether you see it. Others do.

I think that MCPD has been saying "We're not like those other terrible police departments!" and that's true, but that doesn't mean there aren't also problems with MCPD. Plus the Montgomery County Council doesn't have legislative and funding authority over those other terrible police departments; it has legislative and funding authority over MCPD.

How is recruiting for the Gaithersburg PD and the Rockville PD, by the way?

And the problems are? What I see is a lot of localizing national issues where it is just not relevant. Or crazy nitpicking.

People should be grateful that we have MCPD and not those other police departments. My fear is that this constant and ridiculous barrage against MCPD will only lead in one direction, MCPD getting worse.

Well, there you go. There are problems, but you don't consider them serious, just "crazy nitpicking".

Am I grateful that we have MCPD and not, for example, NYPD? Yes, I am. I think it's reasonable to expect more from our police department than merely "less bad than other police departments that are notoriously terrible".

What are the problems? Please identify them and be specific.

Honestly, PP. For any problems here, short of police murder, you will dismiss them as "crazy nitpicking." Are you the one who keeps saying people should listen to police officers? Well, how about you listen to people talking about their experiences with policing.

So you refuse to actually state any specific problem with MCPD? But I am supposed to just accept your word for it that it has vaguely defined “problems”? No thanks.

No, you are supposed to listen to people who have given many such examples in the public arena in real life.

+1 including on this thread but PP just denies denies denies so they can justify the fact that MCPD is totally resistant to reform. They are driving recruits away, not a small minority of the County Council. Who would want to be a part of an organization where one is expected to protect fellow officers that harass and abuse BIPOC people.

I’m a DP.
I don’t see anyone on this thread denying anything. Nobody on this thread has said MCPD is perfect. Nobody. What a couple posters HAVE said is that this department is held to a higher standard than most, and that this department is further along in reforms than most. I suspect even our council members would agree to that. This department historically has had a very strong reputation.

You are entirely wrong that MCPD drives recruits away. They are among the lowest paid in the region now. They don’t get the same support that officers in other districts get. For those entering this job, it’s pretty well known that MCPD doesn’t get a lot of support from local politicians. Those factors have affected recruitment, and yes… even our council members have been quoted acknowledging that.

As for whether they listen to the community, they do. How do I know? Because I go to community events. Regularly. If you have a complaint… MAKE IT. They collect data on all complaints, and they do follow through. Incidentally, most complaints against officers in this county actually come from other officers.

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You clearly don’t know policing. You realize they also respond to CALLS, correct? And that they aren’t running around pulling people over all day? Calls are way up and officers are down. As for your “work stoppage,” it simply isn’t happening. I know many cops, and they are too busy doing their jobs and covering the shortages. Are they upset with the council? Yes, and rightfully so. If you have paid ANY attention to this council for the past couple of years, you would know that the problems faced in recruitment and retention fall very heavily on the council and its vitriol toward the department.

And to say the Council is “eating it up”? Very mature.

This is a US-wide phenomenon, it's not just Montgomery County. And at least part of it is due to the actions of police officers in the US, which have caused a reassessment of policing in general. There can only be so much attention on so many bad cops before people start to wonder whether there's a systemic problem.

That's the thing. The media, particularly social media, take low probability/high consequence incidents and drive them into our eyes/ears/brains until it is the only reality we know. And then we demand policy changes based on the cognitive distortion of imagined frequency.

1,000 deaths at the hands of police is horrible. Every life matters. But when put in context of the number of police contacts, which is 61 million per year across the U.S., that's 0.002% chance of death each time you encounter a police officer.

That's one in 2,000
Your risk of dying in a gun assault are one in 221.

Excellent post. But I’m still waiting for someone to jump in with the “even one death is too many!” nonsense.

The thing y'all don't want to admit is that the killings are just the most extreme example of disparate and abusive policing. Just because you don't get killed doesn't mean you haven't been harassed or worse injured by police. The people paid to protect you. That impacts a person and it happens a lot, including in Montgomery County.

10 years ago, I would have believed in the possibility of this being true. But cell phone and ring camera footage is so ubiquitous, we would have seen it. People are out there taunting police, trying to get them to lose their tempers, so that they can film it and upload it.

There is no pervasive pattern of abuse or misconduct in MoCo.

I can tell you as a White person I have directly observed disparate and abusive treatment of Black.people by police. I'm sorry you saw some camera footage that upset you. It's ridiculous and offensive to assert that this disproves what Black people are saying

Disparate treatment? So they had one white suspect and one Black suspect before them at the same time, under completely equal circumstances, and they treated them differently?

We were knocking on doors in the same neighborhoods for weeks and they repeatedly got stopped and harassed by police and I never did.

If you base treatment solely on race, you will always have different outcomes. There are many other issues at play. Maybe others matched the description of a suspect and you didn't, for example.

Really, all four of them "matched the description" of a suspect?

Honestly, what was happening was abundantly clear to me. I get it, you don't believe me, and you and your kind will always hide behind the notion that you can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the treatment is disparate. But it is obvious to those of us that have observed it. The police can keep denying denying denying denying but that is not going to make their lives any easier. They need to reform. They do not want to reform. That is 100% on them.

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Anonymous wrote:Who on the council is "falling all over themselves to praise police?"

The only example I can think of is Elrich's absurd covid bonuses.

I’m the PP who posted above about the council’s treatment of police. I can’t think of one time I’ve witnessed this, and I do watch council proceedings.

All one needs to do is go to certain council members’ social media accounts and search for references to the police. It’s just criticism after criticism after criticism. No support at all. Recruitment for police is down nationwide, but it is critical here.

Names? Examples?

Hucker and Jawando were the worst. Riemer on occasion.

This new Council? Mink.

So 2 out of 11 current councilmembers are by themselves making police work so difficult that they need to reduce traffic stops by 2/3? Through their Twitter posts.

Well, I suppose if you limit their impact to solely social media.

But don't forget the 30+ new legal mandates they've placed on police over the past 2 years, and all the negative discussion that surrounded those deliberations.

I was about to post this. Thank you.

That sounds very persuasive but the police themselves are not blaming the "30+ legal mandates" for the work stoppage. They are blaming the "rhetoric". And I actually have listened to council sessions and find the notion that the rhetoric during the sessions was in any way offensive or abusive towards police hilarious. There are current and former councilmembers that are abusive bullies. Jawando, Hucker, Riemer and Mink are not in this group.

Have you been listening to the council for the past couple of years? You don’t see the hostility?

In any case, it doesn’t matter if you see it. We went from full recruit classes and the pick of applicants to barely being able to fill a class. This used to be the county law enforcement officers wanted to work for. It was a premier department. Now we can’t keep pace with any of the neighboring counties. The word is out that officers aren’t supported. It doesn’t matter whether you see it. Others do.

I think that MCPD has been saying "We're not like those other terrible police departments!" and that's true, but that doesn't mean there aren't also problems with MCPD. Plus the Montgomery County Council doesn't have legislative and funding authority over those other terrible police departments; it has legislative and funding authority over MCPD.

How is recruiting for the Gaithersburg PD and the Rockville PD, by the way?

And the problems are? What I see is a lot of localizing national issues where it is just not relevant. Or crazy nitpicking.

People should be grateful that we have MCPD and not those other police departments. My fear is that this constant and ridiculous barrage against MCPD will only lead in one direction, MCPD getting worse.

Well, there you go. There are problems, but you don't consider them serious, just "crazy nitpicking".

Am I grateful that we have MCPD and not, for example, NYPD? Yes, I am. I think it's reasonable to expect more from our police department than merely "less bad than other police departments that are notoriously terrible".

What are the problems? Please identify them and be specific.

Honestly, PP. For any problems here, short of police murder, you will dismiss them as "crazy nitpicking." Are you the one who keeps saying people should listen to police officers? Well, how about you listen to people talking about their experiences with policing.

So you refuse to actually state any specific problem with MCPD? But I am supposed to just accept your word for it that it has vaguely defined “problems”? No thanks.

No, you are supposed to listen to people who have given many such examples in the public arena in real life.

+1 including on this thread but PP just denies denies denies so they can justify the fact that MCPD is totally resistant to reform. They are driving recruits away, not a small minority of the County Council. Who would want to be a part of an organization where one is expected to protect fellow officers that harass and abuse BIPOC people.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Who on the council is "falling all over themselves to praise police?"

The only example I can think of is Elrich's absurd covid bonuses.

I’m the PP who posted above about the council’s treatment of police. I can’t think of one time I’ve witnessed this, and I do watch council proceedings.

All one needs to do is go to certain council members’ social media accounts and search for references to the police. It’s just criticism after criticism after criticism. No support at all. Recruitment for police is down nationwide, but it is critical here.

Names? Examples?

Hucker and Jawando were the worst. Riemer on occasion.

This new Council? Mink.

So 2 out of 11 current councilmembers are by themselves making police work so difficult that they need to reduce traffic stops by 2/3? Through their Twitter posts.

Well, I suppose if you limit their impact to solely social media.

But don't forget the 30+ new legal mandates they've placed on police over the past 2 years, and all the negative discussion that surrounded those deliberations.

I was about to post this. Thank you.

That sounds very persuasive but the police themselves are not blaming the "30+ legal mandates" for the work stoppage. They are blaming the "rhetoric". And I actually have listened to council sessions and find the notion that the rhetoric during the sessions was in any way offensive or abusive towards police hilarious. There are current and former councilmembers that are abusive bullies. Jawando, Hucker, Riemer and Mink are not in this group.

Have you been listening to the council for the past couple of years? You don’t see the hostility?

In any case, it doesn’t matter if you see it. We went from full recruit classes and the pick of applicants to barely being able to fill a class. This used to be the county law enforcement officers wanted to work for. It was a premier department. Now we can’t keep pace with any of the neighboring counties. The word is out that officers aren’t supported. It doesn’t matter whether you see it. Others do.

I think that MCPD has been saying "We're not like those other terrible police departments!" and that's true, but that doesn't mean there aren't also problems with MCPD. Plus the Montgomery County Council doesn't have legislative and funding authority over those other terrible police departments; it has legislative and funding authority over MCPD.

How is recruiting for the Gaithersburg PD and the Rockville PD, by the way?

And the problems are? What I see is a lot of localizing national issues where it is just not relevant. Or crazy nitpicking.

People should be grateful that we have MCPD and not those other police departments. My fear is that this constant and ridiculous barrage against MCPD will only lead in one direction, MCPD getting worse.

Well, there you go. There are problems, but you don't consider them serious, just "crazy nitpicking".

Am I grateful that we have MCPD and not, for example, NYPD? Yes, I am. I think it's reasonable to expect more from our police department than merely "less bad than other police departments that are notoriously terrible".

What are the problems? Please identify them and be specific.

Honestly, PP. For any problems here, short of police murder, you will dismiss them as "crazy nitpicking." Are you the one who keeps saying people should listen to police officers? Well, how about you listen to people talking about their experiences with policing.

So you refuse to actually state any specific problem with MCPD? But I am supposed to just accept your word for it that it has vaguely defined “problems”? No thanks.

No, you are supposed to listen to people who have given many such examples in the public arena in real life.

+1 including on this thread but PP just denies denies denies so they can justify the fact that MCPD is totally resistant to reform. They are driving recruits away, not a small minority of the County Council. Who would want to be a part of an organization where one is expected to protect fellow officers that harass and abuse BIPOC people.

I haven’t read the whole thread. So maybe you could provide a link? Thanks!

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who on the council is "falling all over themselves to praise police?"

The only example I can think of is Elrich's absurd covid bonuses.

I’m the PP who posted above about the council’s treatment of police. I can’t think of one time I’ve witnessed this, and I do watch council proceedings.

All one needs to do is go to certain council members’ social media accounts and search for references to the police. It’s just criticism after criticism after criticism. No support at all. Recruitment for police is down nationwide, but it is critical here.

Names? Examples?

Hucker and Jawando were the worst. Riemer on occasion.

This new Council? Mink.

So 2 out of 11 current councilmembers are by themselves making police work so difficult that they need to reduce traffic stops by 2/3? Through their Twitter posts.

Well, I suppose if you limit their impact to solely social media.

But don't forget the 30+ new legal mandates they've placed on police over the past 2 years, and all the negative discussion that surrounded those deliberations.

I was about to post this. Thank you.

That sounds very persuasive but the police themselves are not blaming the "30+ legal mandates" for the work stoppage. They are blaming the "rhetoric". And I actually have listened to council sessions and find the notion that the rhetoric during the sessions was in any way offensive or abusive towards police hilarious. There are current and former councilmembers that are abusive bullies. Jawando, Hucker, Riemer and Mink are not in this group.

Have you been listening to the council for the past couple of years? You don’t see the hostility?

In any case, it doesn’t matter if you see it. We went from full recruit classes and the pick of applicants to barely being able to fill a class. This used to be the county law enforcement officers wanted to work for. It was a premier department. Now we can’t keep pace with any of the neighboring counties. The word is out that officers aren’t supported. It doesn’t matter whether you see it. Others do.

I think that MCPD has been saying "We're not like those other terrible police departments!" and that's true, but that doesn't mean there aren't also problems with MCPD. Plus the Montgomery County Council doesn't have legislative and funding authority over those other terrible police departments; it has legislative and funding authority over MCPD.

How is recruiting for the Gaithersburg PD and the Rockville PD, by the way?

And the problems are? What I see is a lot of localizing national issues where it is just not relevant. Or crazy nitpicking.

People should be grateful that we have MCPD and not those other police departments. My fear is that this constant and ridiculous barrage against MCPD will only lead in one direction, MCPD getting worse.

Well, there you go. There are problems, but you don't consider them serious, just "crazy nitpicking".

Am I grateful that we have MCPD and not, for example, NYPD? Yes, I am. I think it's reasonable to expect more from our police department than merely "less bad than other police departments that are notoriously terrible".

What are the problems? Please identify them and be specific.

Honestly, PP. For any problems here, short of police murder, you will dismiss them as "crazy nitpicking." Are you the one who keeps saying people should listen to police officers? Well, how about you listen to people talking about their experiences with policing.

So you refuse to actually state any specific problem with MCPD? But I am supposed to just accept your word for it that it has vaguely defined “problems”? No thanks.

No, you are supposed to listen to people who have given many such examples in the public arena in real life.

+1 including on this thread but PP just denies denies denies so they can justify the fact that MCPD is totally resistant to reform. They are driving recruits away, not a small minority of the County Council. Who would want to be a part of an organization where one is expected to protect fellow officers that harass and abuse BIPOC people.

"BIPOC" lol - now I know this is Kristin posting or one of her close allies.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who on the council is "falling all over themselves to praise police?"

The only example I can think of is Elrich's absurd covid bonuses.

I’m the PP who posted above about the council’s treatment of police. I can’t think of one time I’ve witnessed this, and I do watch council proceedings.

All one needs to do is go to certain council members’ social media accounts and search for references to the police. It’s just criticism after criticism after criticism. No support at all. Recruitment for police is down nationwide, but it is critical here.

Names? Examples?

Hucker and Jawando were the worst. Riemer on occasion.

This new Council? Mink.

So 2 out of 11 current councilmembers are by themselves making police work so difficult that they need to reduce traffic stops by 2/3? Through their Twitter posts.

Well, I suppose if you limit their impact to solely social media.

But don't forget the 30+ new legal mandates they've placed on police over the past 2 years, and all the negative discussion that surrounded those deliberations.

I was about to post this. Thank you.

That sounds very persuasive but the police themselves are not blaming the "30+ legal mandates" for the work stoppage. They are blaming the "rhetoric". And I actually have listened to council sessions and find the notion that the rhetoric during the sessions was in any way offensive or abusive towards police hilarious. There are current and former councilmembers that are abusive bullies. Jawando, Hucker, Riemer and Mink are not in this group.

Have you been listening to the council for the past couple of years? You don’t see the hostility?

In any case, it doesn’t matter if you see it. We went from full recruit classes and the pick of applicants to barely being able to fill a class. This used to be the county law enforcement officers wanted to work for. It was a premier department. Now we can’t keep pace with any of the neighboring counties. The word is out that officers aren’t supported. It doesn’t matter whether you see it. Others do.

I think that MCPD has been saying "We're not like those other terrible police departments!" and that's true, but that doesn't mean there aren't also problems with MCPD. Plus the Montgomery County Council doesn't have legislative and funding authority over those other terrible police departments; it has legislative and funding authority over MCPD.

How is recruiting for the Gaithersburg PD and the Rockville PD, by the way?

And the problems are? What I see is a lot of localizing national issues where it is just not relevant. Or crazy nitpicking.

People should be grateful that we have MCPD and not those other police departments. My fear is that this constant and ridiculous barrage against MCPD will only lead in one direction, MCPD getting worse.

Well, there you go. There are problems, but you don't consider them serious, just "crazy nitpicking".

Am I grateful that we have MCPD and not, for example, NYPD? Yes, I am. I think it's reasonable to expect more from our police department than merely "less bad than other police departments that are notoriously terrible".

What are the problems? Please identify them and be specific.

Honestly, PP. For any problems here, short of police murder, you will dismiss them as "crazy nitpicking." Are you the one who keeps saying people should listen to police officers? Well, how about you listen to people talking about their experiences with policing.

So you refuse to actually state any specific problem with MCPD? But I am supposed to just accept your word for it that it has vaguely defined “problems”? No thanks.

No, you are supposed to listen to people who have given many such examples in the public arena in real life.

+1 including on this thread but PP just denies denies denies so they can justify the fact that MCPD is totally resistant to reform. They are driving recruits away, not a small minority of the County Council. Who would want to be a part of an organization where one is expected to protect fellow officers that harass and abuse BIPOC people.

I haven’t read the whole thread. So maybe you could provide a link? Thanks!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who on the council is "falling all over themselves to praise police?"

The only example I can think of is Elrich's absurd covid bonuses.

I’m the PP who posted above about the council’s treatment of police. I can’t think of one time I’ve witnessed this, and I do watch council proceedings.

All one needs to do is go to certain council members’ social media accounts and search for references to the police. It’s just criticism after criticism after criticism. No support at all. Recruitment for police is down nationwide, but it is critical here.

Names? Examples?

Hucker and Jawando were the worst. Riemer on occasion.

This new Council? Mink.

So 2 out of 11 current councilmembers are by themselves making police work so difficult that they need to reduce traffic stops by 2/3? Through their Twitter posts.

Well, I suppose if you limit their impact to solely social media.

But don't forget the 30+ new legal mandates they've placed on police over the past 2 years, and all the negative discussion that surrounded those deliberations.

I was about to post this. Thank you.

That sounds very persuasive but the police themselves are not blaming the "30+ legal mandates" for the work stoppage. They are blaming the "rhetoric". And I actually have listened to council sessions and find the notion that the rhetoric during the sessions was in any way offensive or abusive towards police hilarious. There are current and former councilmembers that are abusive bullies. Jawando, Hucker, Riemer and Mink are not in this group.

Have you been listening to the council for the past couple of years? You don’t see the hostility?

In any case, it doesn’t matter if you see it. We went from full recruit classes and the pick of applicants to barely being able to fill a class. This used to be the county law enforcement officers wanted to work for. It was a premier department. Now we can’t keep pace with any of the neighboring counties. The word is out that officers aren’t supported. It doesn’t matter whether you see it. Others do.

I think that MCPD has been saying "We're not like those other terrible police departments!" and that's true, but that doesn't mean there aren't also problems with MCPD. Plus the Montgomery County Council doesn't have legislative and funding authority over those other terrible police departments; it has legislative and funding authority over MCPD.

How is recruiting for the Gaithersburg PD and the Rockville PD, by the way?

And the problems are? What I see is a lot of localizing national issues where it is just not relevant. Or crazy nitpicking.

People should be grateful that we have MCPD and not those other police departments. My fear is that this constant and ridiculous barrage against MCPD will only lead in one direction, MCPD getting worse.

Well, there you go. There are problems, but you don't consider them serious, just "crazy nitpicking".

Am I grateful that we have MCPD and not, for example, NYPD? Yes, I am. I think it's reasonable to expect more from our police department than merely "less bad than other police departments that are notoriously terrible".

What are the problems? Please identify them and be specific.

Honestly, PP. For any problems here, short of police murder, you will dismiss them as "crazy nitpicking." Are you the one who keeps saying people should listen to police officers? Well, how about you listen to people talking about their experiences with policing.

So you refuse to actually state any specific problem with MCPD? But I am supposed to just accept your word for it that it has vaguely defined “problems”? No thanks.

No, you are supposed to listen to people who have given many such examples in the public arena in real life.

+1 including on this thread but PP just denies denies denies so they can justify the fact that MCPD is totally resistant to reform. They are driving recruits away, not a small minority of the County Council. Who would want to be a part of an organization where one is expected to protect fellow officers that harass and abuse BIPOC people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who on the council is "falling all over themselves to praise police?"

The only example I can think of is Elrich's absurd covid bonuses.

I’m the PP who posted above about the council’s treatment of police. I can’t think of one time I’ve witnessed this, and I do watch council proceedings.

All one needs to do is go to certain council members’ social media accounts and search for references to the police. It’s just criticism after criticism after criticism. No support at all. Recruitment for police is down nationwide, but it is critical here.

Names? Examples?

Hucker and Jawando were the worst. Riemer on occasion.

This new Council? Mink.

So 2 out of 11 current councilmembers are by themselves making police work so difficult that they need to reduce traffic stops by 2/3? Through their Twitter posts.

Well, I suppose if you limit their impact to solely social media.

But don't forget the 30+ new legal mandates they've placed on police over the past 2 years, and all the negative discussion that surrounded those deliberations.

I was about to post this. Thank you.

That sounds very persuasive but the police themselves are not blaming the "30+ legal mandates" for the work stoppage. They are blaming the "rhetoric". And I actually have listened to council sessions and find the notion that the rhetoric during the sessions was in any way offensive or abusive towards police hilarious. There are current and former councilmembers that are abusive bullies. Jawando, Hucker, Riemer and Mink are not in this group.

Have you been listening to the council for the past couple of years? You don’t see the hostility?

In any case, it doesn’t matter if you see it. We went from full recruit classes and the pick of applicants to barely being able to fill a class. This used to be the county law enforcement officers wanted to work for. It was a premier department. Now we can’t keep pace with any of the neighboring counties. The word is out that officers aren’t supported. It doesn’t matter whether you see it. Others do.

I think that MCPD has been saying "We're not like those other terrible police departments!" and that's true, but that doesn't mean there aren't also problems with MCPD. Plus the Montgomery County Council doesn't have legislative and funding authority over those other terrible police departments; it has legislative and funding authority over MCPD.

How is recruiting for the Gaithersburg PD and the Rockville PD, by the way?

And the problems are? What I see is a lot of localizing national issues where it is just not relevant. Or crazy nitpicking.

People should be grateful that we have MCPD and not those other police departments. My fear is that this constant and ridiculous barrage against MCPD will only lead in one direction, MCPD getting worse.

Well, there you go. There are problems, but you don't consider them serious, just "crazy nitpicking".

Am I grateful that we have MCPD and not, for example, NYPD? Yes, I am. I think it's reasonable to expect more from our police department than merely "less bad than other police departments that are notoriously terrible".

What are the problems? Please identify them and be specific.

Honestly, PP. For any problems here, short of police murder, you will dismiss them as "crazy nitpicking." Are you the one who keeps saying people should listen to police officers? Well, how about you listen to people talking about their experiences with policing.

So you refuse to actually state any specific problem with MCPD? But I am supposed to just accept your word for it that it has vaguely defined “problems”? No thanks.

No, you are supposed to listen to people who have given many such examples in the public arena in real life.

+1 including on this thread but PP just denies denies denies so they can justify the fact that MCPD is totally resistant to reform. They are driving recruits away, not a small minority of the County Council. Who would want to be a part of an organization where one is expected to protect fellow officers that harass and abuse BIPOC people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who on the council is "falling all over themselves to praise police?"

The only example I can think of is Elrich's absurd covid bonuses.

I’m the PP who posted above about the council’s treatment of police. I can’t think of one time I’ve witnessed this, and I do watch council proceedings.

All one needs to do is go to certain council members’ social media accounts and search for references to the police. It’s just criticism after criticism after criticism. No support at all. Recruitment for police is down nationwide, but it is critical here.

Names? Examples?

Hucker and Jawando were the worst. Riemer on occasion.

This new Council? Mink.

So 2 out of 11 current councilmembers are by themselves making police work so difficult that they need to reduce traffic stops by 2/3? Through their Twitter posts.

Well, I suppose if you limit their impact to solely social media.

But don't forget the 30+ new legal mandates they've placed on police over the past 2 years, and all the negative discussion that surrounded those deliberations.

I was about to post this. Thank you.

That sounds very persuasive but the police themselves are not blaming the "30+ legal mandates" for the work stoppage. They are blaming the "rhetoric". And I actually have listened to council sessions and find the notion that the rhetoric during the sessions was in any way offensive or abusive towards police hilarious. There are current and former councilmembers that are abusive bullies. Jawando, Hucker, Riemer and Mink are not in this group.

Have you been listening to the council for the past couple of years? You don’t see the hostility?

In any case, it doesn’t matter if you see it. We went from full recruit classes and the pick of applicants to barely being able to fill a class. This used to be the county law enforcement officers wanted to work for. It was a premier department. Now we can’t keep pace with any of the neighboring counties. The word is out that officers aren’t supported. It doesn’t matter whether you see it. Others do.

I think that MCPD has been saying "We're not like those other terrible police departments!" and that's true, but that doesn't mean there aren't also problems with MCPD. Plus the Montgomery County Council doesn't have legislative and funding authority over those other terrible police departments; it has legislative and funding authority over MCPD.

How is recruiting for the Gaithersburg PD and the Rockville PD, by the way?

And the problems are? What I see is a lot of localizing national issues where it is just not relevant. Or crazy nitpicking.

People should be grateful that we have MCPD and not those other police departments. My fear is that this constant and ridiculous barrage against MCPD will only lead in one direction, MCPD getting worse.

Well, there you go. There are problems, but you don't consider them serious, just "crazy nitpicking".

Am I grateful that we have MCPD and not, for example, NYPD? Yes, I am. I think it's reasonable to expect more from our police department than merely "less bad than other police departments that are notoriously terrible".

What are the problems? Please identify them and be specific.

Honestly, PP. For any problems here, short of police murder, you will dismiss them as "crazy nitpicking." Are you the one who keeps saying people should listen to police officers? Well, how about you listen to people talking about their experiences with policing.

So you refuse to actually state any specific problem with MCPD? But I am supposed to just accept your word for it that it has vaguely defined “problems”? No thanks.

No, you are supposed to listen to people who have given many such examples in the public arena in real life.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who on the council is "falling all over themselves to praise police?"

The only example I can think of is Elrich's absurd covid bonuses.

I’m the PP who posted above about the council’s treatment of police. I can’t think of one time I’ve witnessed this, and I do watch council proceedings.

All one needs to do is go to certain council members’ social media accounts and search for references to the police. It’s just criticism after criticism after criticism. No support at all. Recruitment for police is down nationwide, but it is critical here.

Names? Examples?

Hucker and Jawando were the worst. Riemer on occasion.

This new Council? Mink.

So 2 out of 11 current councilmembers are by themselves making police work so difficult that they need to reduce traffic stops by 2/3? Through their Twitter posts.

Well, I suppose if you limit their impact to solely social media.

But don't forget the 30+ new legal mandates they've placed on police over the past 2 years, and all the negative discussion that surrounded those deliberations.

I was about to post this. Thank you.

That sounds very persuasive but the police themselves are not blaming the "30+ legal mandates" for the work stoppage. They are blaming the "rhetoric". And I actually have listened to council sessions and find the notion that the rhetoric during the sessions was in any way offensive or abusive towards police hilarious. There are current and former councilmembers that are abusive bullies. Jawando, Hucker, Riemer and Mink are not in this group.

Have you been listening to the council for the past couple of years? You don’t see the hostility?

In any case, it doesn’t matter if you see it. We went from full recruit classes and the pick of applicants to barely being able to fill a class. This used to be the county law enforcement officers wanted to work for. It was a premier department. Now we can’t keep pace with any of the neighboring counties. The word is out that officers aren’t supported. It doesn’t matter whether you see it. Others do.

I think that MCPD has been saying "We're not like those other terrible police departments!" and that's true, but that doesn't mean there aren't also problems with MCPD. Plus the Montgomery County Council doesn't have legislative and funding authority over those other terrible police departments; it has legislative and funding authority over MCPD.

How is recruiting for the Gaithersburg PD and the Rockville PD, by the way?

And the problems are? What I see is a lot of localizing national issues where it is just not relevant. Or crazy nitpicking.

People should be grateful that we have MCPD and not those other police departments. My fear is that this constant and ridiculous barrage against MCPD will only lead in one direction, MCPD getting worse.

Well, there you go. There are problems, but you don't consider them serious, just "crazy nitpicking".

Am I grateful that we have MCPD and not, for example, NYPD? Yes, I am. I think it's reasonable to expect more from our police department than merely "less bad than other police departments that are notoriously terrible".

What are the problems? Please identify them and be specific.

Honestly, PP. For any problems here, short of police murder, you will dismiss them as "crazy nitpicking." Are you the one who keeps saying people should listen to police officers? Well, how about you listen to people talking about their experiences with policing.

So you refuse to actually state any specific problem with MCPD? But I am supposed to just accept your word for it that it has vaguely defined “problems”? No thanks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who on the council is "falling all over themselves to praise police?"

The only example I can think of is Elrich's absurd covid bonuses.

I’m the PP who posted above about the council’s treatment of police. I can’t think of one time I’ve witnessed this, and I do watch council proceedings.

All one needs to do is go to certain council members’ social media accounts and search for references to the police. It’s just criticism after criticism after criticism. No support at all. Recruitment for police is down nationwide, but it is critical here.

Names? Examples?

Hucker and Jawando were the worst. Riemer on occasion.

This new Council? Mink.

So 2 out of 11 current councilmembers are by themselves making police work so difficult that they need to reduce traffic stops by 2/3? Through their Twitter posts.

Well, I suppose if you limit their impact to solely social media.

But don't forget the 30+ new legal mandates they've placed on police over the past 2 years, and all the negative discussion that surrounded those deliberations.

I was about to post this. Thank you.

That sounds very persuasive but the police themselves are not blaming the "30+ legal mandates" for the work stoppage. They are blaming the "rhetoric". And I actually have listened to council sessions and find the notion that the rhetoric during the sessions was in any way offensive or abusive towards police hilarious. There are current and former councilmembers that are abusive bullies. Jawando, Hucker, Riemer and Mink are not in this group.

Have you been listening to the council for the past couple of years? You don’t see the hostility?

In any case, it doesn’t matter if you see it. We went from full recruit classes and the pick of applicants to barely being able to fill a class. This used to be the county law enforcement officers wanted to work for. It was a premier department. Now we can’t keep pace with any of the neighboring counties. The word is out that officers aren’t supported. It doesn’t matter whether you see it. Others do.

I think that MCPD has been saying "We're not like those other terrible police departments!" and that's true, but that doesn't mean there aren't also problems with MCPD. Plus the Montgomery County Council doesn't have legislative and funding authority over those other terrible police departments; it has legislative and funding authority over MCPD.

How is recruiting for the Gaithersburg PD and the Rockville PD, by the way?

And the problems are? What I see is a lot of localizing national issues where it is just not relevant. Or crazy nitpicking.

People should be grateful that we have MCPD and not those other police departments. My fear is that this constant and ridiculous barrage against MCPD will only lead in one direction, MCPD getting worse.

Well, there you go. There are problems, but you don't consider them serious, just "crazy nitpicking".

Am I grateful that we have MCPD and not, for example, NYPD? Yes, I am. I think it's reasonable to expect more from our police department than merely "less bad than other police departments that are notoriously terrible".

What are the problems? Please identify them and be specific.

Honestly, PP. For any problems here, short of police murder, you will dismiss them as "crazy nitpicking." Are you the one who keeps saying people should listen to police officers? Well, how about you listen to people talking about their experiences with policing.