Anonymous wrote:This is OP. Again.
I'm really begging this time. Does anyone have a marriage that's solid to an Aspie? Anyone here?
A few posters have said that they lowered their expectations and find satisfaction elsewhere. Others have said it's impossible to have a mutually satisfying relationship with an Aspie.
Unless anyone has anything helpful to say, this seems like a tapped out thread. And so disappointing. Like my marriage.

My marriage is solid, but is it fulfilling in and of itself? Absolutely not. I've had to adjust my expectations, and spend periods of time shifting my mindset to that of a single mother so I didn't get resentful for having expectations of a loving husband. I'm not suggesting that for you, but I think that was a necessary transition period for me to survive.

I've had a full year of therapy now, and while our marriage is unchanged, it has really helped me 100 percent. a) to be heard, seen, understood by someone, to be able to share all of myself and my thoughts with someone and have it be considered, and accepted b) to work on my own deficits, issues, and communication challenges, lack of self care, and self esteem. c) to have a partner to be able to talk about things like the challenges of parenting with reason and good will. d) to help me understand that I have the power to make our marriage better fit my needs if I choose - but that the effort will need to come from me, because my husband sees nothing wrong with our relationship

I'm able to recognize what my husband brings that make up for my deficits. He is stable, loyal, unchanging, he will never leave or stray, he is good at his job, he helps people through his job, he financially supports the family, he does not hold grudges, he has taught himself useful skills like home repair and minor construction, is very good at completing very long projects that take hundreds of hours, he is intellectually interesting, non-conforming, and incredibly intelligent in areas of his interest. If I do a good job of communicating my needs in a way that is very sensitive to his feelings, he is open to making an effort. It takes repetition, patience, and love. And it requires understanding that he goes through life always getting the message from everyone that he's not doing it right, that something is off with him, that he needs to change who he is, and that he's not doing enough, so every ask and request of him is like rubbing salt into his open wounds and he will react defensively because of it.

I have and need supportive friends that give me the kind of understanding, encouragement and support, that I will never get from my husband, unless I give him explicit instructions on how he should do so. I take care of myself. I draw some boundaries and try to teach him to take care of himself with at least the basic things - he needs to be able to prepare a few meals, to be able to do his own laundry, take care of his own stuff, and manage communication and planning with seeing his side of the family and his own friends. This part took time and clear expectations and boundaries.

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Anonymous wrote:PP and these recent posts all ring so true for me.

My MIL and BIL have tried their best to ignore me for 25 years and when they’re with my husband, the three of them don’t interact with anyone else. Like: my children and I siting at the table with them. It’s soooo bizarre but I also have come to realize that they are each other’s safe place.

My FIL and MIL never did anything with their children or tried to engage with them. They basically had them work in the family biz and that was family time.

Being married to me has really opened my DH up to what a family can be and to what emotional connection is but he still struggles with it daily and is beyond socially awkward.

This is exactly what happened to me when we took DH's parents out to a very nice restaurant in the city where they live. DH's mom sat next to me and across from her only grandchildren, and said not a single word to us. She spent the entire meal speaking with DH (who sat next to her) and to her other son and her husband. The four of them were in their own little world. When I pointed this out to DH, he hadn't even noticed it. I told him I was never taking his parents out to dinner again, and we haven't. It was humiliating to me, but I don't think his mom even realized what she was doing. I think all four of them are on the spectrum, but DH presents better and is more successful in his career. And he's married to me, which gives him the appearance of a NT person, which he is not.

Interesting. So you think the correct response to neurodiverse behavior is to declare yourself “humiliated” and refuse to ever go out with them again. Wow NT behaviors just seem so normal and kind.

I only take people to nice dinners if they appreciate it, have back & forth conversations, and don’t neglect others around the table. You could even call it quid pro quo in PP’s case.

Oh god. Getting major narc/borderline vibes. “You didn’t pay enough attention to meeeeee at dinner, you are so evil and bad! I will never ever be seen in public with you!”

Between a borderline and a person with autism, I will always pick the latter.

What does whatever you wrote have to do with the woman whose MIL and BIL ignore her and the grandchild for an entire dinner and just talk to themselves?

This person who wrote the weird narc post is a troll. Other than trolling, I have no idea why this person is posting on this thread. S/he has nothing to say to the OP.

I wrote that. And yes I stopped taking my aspie in laws in beach trips, day trips, nice restaurants, and nice gifts. They never cared about the gifts or experiences and they don’t care that the only person in the lives who does them, stopped offering them up. They don’t care and now I don’t either. Win, win!

Loccidtane lotions gift? MIL gave them to her cleaning lady. I rec’d a plastic hair brush.

Beach trip with our family? I was asked “how do you know this is a top 10 beach, you haven’t been to the others, it’s just an article”.

What’d you think about our cool day trip to annapolis? Silence, no thank you even.

Let’s go to this great German restaurant! Get there, FIL asks for a pizza.

Yeah, btdt, no thanks.

So basically you make no effort to do things they like, get mad that they like different things, and believe that they are the ones who lack social graces. Do I have that right?

Wrong again. Read it again.
They dont like to travel, eat out, do sporty stuff, talk during meals, so we don’t do those things with them any longer.
We hang out, watch tv, eat, eat dessert, read books, take walks. They get utility out of that and I don’t have to try to lead dinner conversations or plan an activity. Win win!

Yes it's nice you finally figured that out

You just having reading comp issues.

Pp figured it out after the first Xmas gift exchange, trip around town, or like third silent dinner. They don’t do gifts, don’t care about activities and don’t talk or interact. It’d be fatiguing and exhausting to carry that or lug them around. Thus PP quit trying and does that herself or with other people who do actually care and appreciate it.

I feel bad for those people figuring out the underlying AsD issue 15-30 years after the fact. They just have been going crazy wondering WTF was going on.
Now that Op knows what she is dealing with, she can make a plan and it feel bad doing the plan.

If you spend THIRTY YEARS without noticing that your in-laws don’t enjoy the “really nice daytrips!” you continuously organize, then really, who is failing to perceive social cues?

What is assumed to be NT behavior is almost 90% the NT being unable to accept that someone is different from them and doesn’t follow NT social rules. It’s a really interesting contradiction.

PP, are you on the autism spectrum yourself? What you are describing as "NT behavior" is bizarre.

My happily married NT friends have NT partners/husbands who have interests and friends, who make plans and participate in each other's lives. They do things together, and they do things separately, but at the same time, they are partners and they are the prime emotional support for each other. Yes they each have supportive friends, and colleagues and family members, but what I see they all have in common is mutual respect and interest in making each other happy.

I have an ASD partner who has no friends, has no interests (aside from work), who does almost nothing to do with child rearing, socializing, planning activities, holidays, etc. etc. etc. He is not a partner in the true sense of the word. It's exhausting for me to try to create a normal family life all by myself. If it were up to him, the children would be naked and starve to death, have no birthday parties, no vacations, probably not even a house to live in. All that and much much more is left to me. He puts all his energy into his job, and has none for me or our children. I'd like to have a husband, not a nice roommate who gives the kids rides and helps around then house when asked.

Sigh. What you're describing is something different from autism. I've said this a million times, but my likely ASD dad did almost all the housework, and almost 50% of the childrearing. His behavior was difficult in other ways, but nothing like what you describe. And, he had two long and apparently happy marriages.

The post I was responding to involved a woman miffed that her (supposedly) autistic inlaws did not enjoy her "fun little day trips" or converse in exactly the way she expected/demanded at dinner. THAT is where NTs get very rigid about their social norms. I know it's hard to grasp, but the very notion of people with autism acting "oddly" (ie differently than expected) IS at its heart a problem of NT people having trouble when others don't follow their rules. Now of course, we can say that people with autism ought to be able to learn how to play by the rules to the extent they can - and I think I agree with this - but there is a tremendous irony at the heart of characterizing autistic people as "rigid" and ignoring the rigidity of the NT world - and the utter cruelty it can show towards people who do not conform.

Well said. Another default system that reveals the "rigidity of the NT world" is the traditional school day (public and most privates). My kids are not ASD but have severe ADHD. Even after putting them on meds it became clear that although they were no longer disruptive in class (and the teachers were now happy) they were quietly miserable and not learning anything. My then 8 yo son would get off the bus looking like a 60 yo coming home from his decades-long 9-5 job. My kids still take some meds but now we hybrid-homeschooling. The academic day is short and they have some autonomy to pursue personal interests during the day. This is not a neurodiverse need, it's a human need.

Meanwhile, as we get older my friends with NT kids are starting to see some of the anxiety associated with the traditional school day and tensions btwn homework and pursuing personal interests/free time (especially the girls and dealing with sophisticated social maneuvering). This is all "typical" but it's still a dysfunctional way to raise humans for the majority of their youth (I'd say about 20% of kids have unusually flexible and go with the flow personalities and will do well enough in any environment -- a minority, but a large enough one that helps maintain that status quo).

When the neurodiverse leave mainstream schooling it's comforting to label it as "special needs," something that can't be accommodated when you're sufficiently meeting the needs of 80%. But most of these kids are just bellwethers for the NT kids. They actually cant "mask" their frustrations with the typical school day as well as NT kids. That's the difference. But eventually a lot of the NT kids stop being able to mask and frustration with their social and academic lives emerge. Not always at school, but definitely when they get home.

Meanwhile, what kind of world does 13 formative years of being managed in a classroom look like when the kids become adults? In a word, rigid. School is a 7 hr/day, 13 year intervention. It's massive, even though we take it for granted. Now, I can have my kids opt out of participating. But they still have to live in a world where most of their peers have been raised in an environment that expects everyone to exist in lock-step. That's another big example of how the current environment exacerbates neurodiverse tendencies and makes them even more challenging than they might otherwise naturally be. It's a great system for people who thrive as middle-management and HR personnel, but doesn't play to more autonomous personality traits.

This was an insightful post. I'm newly posting, but I have a neurodiverse husband and daughter and I've had the same thoughts. It is a little bit tragic that they spent so many hours and years of their life in misery, not actually learning much, as intelligent as they are. And you are right, the percentage of kids for whom the current school system is actually a good fit, is probably pretty small.

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Anonymous wrote:PP and these recent posts all ring so true for me.

My MIL and BIL have tried their best to ignore me for 25 years and when they’re with my husband, the three of them don’t interact with anyone else. Like: my children and I siting at the table with them. It’s soooo bizarre but I also have come to realize that they are each other’s safe place.

My FIL and MIL never did anything with their children or tried to engage with them. They basically had them work in the family biz and that was family time.

Being married to me has really opened my DH up to what a family can be and to what emotional connection is but he still struggles with it daily and is beyond socially awkward.

This is exactly what happened to me when we took DH's parents out to a very nice restaurant in the city where they live. DH's mom sat next to me and across from her only grandchildren, and said not a single word to us. She spent the entire meal speaking with DH (who sat next to her) and to her other son and her husband. The four of them were in their own little world. When I pointed this out to DH, he hadn't even noticed it. I told him I was never taking his parents out to dinner again, and we haven't. It was humiliating to me, but I don't think his mom even realized what she was doing. I think all four of them are on the spectrum, but DH presents better and is more successful in his career. And he's married to me, which gives him the appearance of a NT person, which he is not.

Interesting. So you think the correct response to neurodiverse behavior is to declare yourself “humiliated” and refuse to ever go out with them again. Wow NT behaviors just seem so normal and kind.

I only take people to nice dinners if they appreciate it, have back & forth conversations, and don’t neglect others around the table. You could even call it quid pro quo in PP’s case.

Oh god. Getting major narc/borderline vibes. “You didn’t pay enough attention to meeeeee at dinner, you are so evil and bad! I will never ever be seen in public with you!”

Between a borderline and a person with autism, I will always pick the latter.

What does whatever you wrote have to do with the woman whose MIL and BIL ignore her and the grandchild for an entire dinner and just talk to themselves?

This person who wrote the weird narc post is a troll. Other than trolling, I have no idea why this person is posting on this thread. S/he has nothing to say to the OP.

I wrote that. And yes I stopped taking my aspie in laws in beach trips, day trips, nice restaurants, and nice gifts. They never cared about the gifts or experiences and they don’t care that the only person in the lives who does them, stopped offering them up. They don’t care and now I don’t either. Win, win!

Loccidtane lotions gift? MIL gave them to her cleaning lady. I rec’d a plastic hair brush.

Beach trip with our family? I was asked “how do you know this is a top 10 beach, you haven’t been to the others, it’s just an article”.

What’d you think about our cool day trip to annapolis? Silence, no thank you even.

Let’s go to this great German restaurant! Get there, FIL asks for a pizza.

Yeah, btdt, no thanks.

So basically you make no effort to do things they like, get mad that they like different things, and believe that they are the ones who lack social graces. Do I have that right?

Wrong again. Read it again.
They dont like to travel, eat out, do sporty stuff, talk during meals, so we don’t do those things with them any longer.
We hang out, watch tv, eat, eat dessert, read books, take walks. They get utility out of that and I don’t have to try to lead dinner conversations or plan an activity. Win win!

Yes it's nice you finally figured that out

You just having reading comp issues.

Pp figured it out after the first Xmas gift exchange, trip around town, or like third silent dinner. They don’t do gifts, don’t care about activities and don’t talk or interact. It’d be fatiguing and exhausting to carry that or lug them around. Thus PP quit trying and does that herself or with other people who do actually care and appreciate it.

I feel bad for those people figuring out the underlying AsD issue 15-30 years after the fact. They just have been going crazy wondering WTF was going on.
Now that Op knows what she is dealing with, she can make a plan and it feel bad doing the plan.

If you spend THIRTY YEARS without noticing that your in-laws don’t enjoy the “really nice daytrips!” you continuously organize, then really, who is failing to perceive social cues?

What is assumed to be NT behavior is almost 90% the NT being unable to accept that someone is different from them and doesn’t follow NT social rules. It’s a really interesting contradiction.

PP, are you on the autism spectrum yourself? What you are describing as "NT behavior" is bizarre.

My happily married NT friends have NT partners/husbands who have interests and friends, who make plans and participate in each other's lives. They do things together, and they do things separately, but at the same time, they are partners and they are the prime emotional support for each other. Yes they each have supportive friends, and colleagues and family members, but what I see they all have in common is mutual respect and interest in making each other happy.

I have an ASD partner who has no friends, has no interests (aside from work), who does almost nothing to do with child rearing, socializing, planning activities, holidays, etc. etc. etc. He is not a partner in the true sense of the word. It's exhausting for me to try to create a normal family life all by myself. If it were up to him, the children would be naked and starve to death, have no birthday parties, no vacations, probably not even a house to live in. All that and much much more is left to me. He puts all his energy into his job, and has none for me or our children. I'd like to have a husband, not a nice roommate who gives the kids rides and helps around then house when asked.

Sigh. What you're describing is something different from autism. I've said this a million times, but my likely ASD dad did almost all the housework, and almost 50% of the childrearing. His behavior was difficult in other ways, but nothing like what you describe. And, he had two long and apparently happy marriages.

The post I was responding to involved a woman miffed that her (supposedly) autistic inlaws did not enjoy her "fun little day trips" or converse in exactly the way she expected/demanded at dinner. THAT is where NTs get very rigid about their social norms. I know it's hard to grasp, but the very notion of people with autism acting "oddly" (ie differently than expected) IS at its heart a problem of NT people having trouble when others don't follow their rules. Now of course, we can say that people with autism ought to be able to learn how to play by the rules to the extent they can - and I think I agree with this - but there is a tremendous irony at the heart of characterizing autistic people as "rigid" and ignoring the rigidity of the NT world - and the utter cruelty it can show towards people who do not conform.

Your dad is not all autistics. you seem pretty rigid thinking yourself.

I don't know about the PPs dad but HFA dad's can definitely be caretakers.
I have a friend whose husband is diagnosed. He was the primary breadwinner while is wife sah when the kids were little. During covid he sort of fell apart mentally and now she works full time and he is a sah dad. He doesn't do things like she would, but he makes it work and I've seen it first hand.

For sure. This person though was commenting that she didn't believe another person's example.

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Anonymous wrote:PP and these recent posts all ring so true for me.

My MIL and BIL have tried their best to ignore me for 25 years and when they’re with my husband, the three of them don’t interact with anyone else. Like: my children and I siting at the table with them. It’s soooo bizarre but I also have come to realize that they are each other’s safe place.

My FIL and MIL never did anything with their children or tried to engage with them. They basically had them work in the family biz and that was family time.

Being married to me has really opened my DH up to what a family can be and to what emotional connection is but he still struggles with it daily and is beyond socially awkward.

This is exactly what happened to me when we took DH's parents out to a very nice restaurant in the city where they live. DH's mom sat next to me and across from her only grandchildren, and said not a single word to us. She spent the entire meal speaking with DH (who sat next to her) and to her other son and her husband. The four of them were in their own little world. When I pointed this out to DH, he hadn't even noticed it. I told him I was never taking his parents out to dinner again, and we haven't. It was humiliating to me, but I don't think his mom even realized what she was doing. I think all four of them are on the spectrum, but DH presents better and is more successful in his career. And he's married to me, which gives him the appearance of a NT person, which he is not.

Interesting. So you think the correct response to neurodiverse behavior is to declare yourself “humiliated” and refuse to ever go out with them again. Wow NT behaviors just seem so normal and kind.

I only take people to nice dinners if they appreciate it, have back & forth conversations, and don’t neglect others around the table. You could even call it quid pro quo in PP’s case.

Oh god. Getting major narc/borderline vibes. “You didn’t pay enough attention to meeeeee at dinner, you are so evil and bad! I will never ever be seen in public with you!”

Between a borderline and a person with autism, I will always pick the latter.

What does whatever you wrote have to do with the woman whose MIL and BIL ignore her and the grandchild for an entire dinner and just talk to themselves?

This person who wrote the weird narc post is a troll. Other than trolling, I have no idea why this person is posting on this thread. S/he has nothing to say to the OP.

I wrote that. And yes I stopped taking my aspie in laws in beach trips, day trips, nice restaurants, and nice gifts. They never cared about the gifts or experiences and they don’t care that the only person in the lives who does them, stopped offering them up. They don’t care and now I don’t either. Win, win!

Loccidtane lotions gift? MIL gave them to her cleaning lady. I rec’d a plastic hair brush.

Beach trip with our family? I was asked “how do you know this is a top 10 beach, you haven’t been to the others, it’s just an article”.

What’d you think about our cool day trip to annapolis? Silence, no thank you even.

Let’s go to this great German restaurant! Get there, FIL asks for a pizza.

Yeah, btdt, no thanks.

So basically you make no effort to do things they like, get mad that they like different things, and believe that they are the ones who lack social graces. Do I have that right?

Wrong again. Read it again.
They dont like to travel, eat out, do sporty stuff, talk during meals, so we don’t do those things with them any longer.
We hang out, watch tv, eat, eat dessert, read books, take walks. They get utility out of that and I don’t have to try to lead dinner conversations or plan an activity. Win win!

Yes it's nice you finally figured that out

You just having reading comp issues.

Pp figured it out after the first Xmas gift exchange, trip around town, or like third silent dinner. They don’t do gifts, don’t care about activities and don’t talk or interact. It’d be fatiguing and exhausting to carry that or lug them around. Thus PP quit trying and does that herself or with other people who do actually care and appreciate it.

I feel bad for those people figuring out the underlying AsD issue 15-30 years after the fact. They just have been going crazy wondering WTF was going on.
Now that Op knows what she is dealing with, she can make a plan and it feel bad doing the plan.

If you spend THIRTY YEARS without noticing that your in-laws don’t enjoy the “really nice daytrips!” you continuously organize, then really, who is failing to perceive social cues?

What is assumed to be NT behavior is almost 90% the NT being unable to accept that someone is different from them and doesn’t follow NT social rules. It’s a really interesting contradiction.

PP, are you on the autism spectrum yourself? What you are describing as "NT behavior" is bizarre.

My happily married NT friends have NT partners/husbands who have interests and friends, who make plans and participate in each other's lives. They do things together, and they do things separately, but at the same time, they are partners and they are the prime emotional support for each other. Yes they each have supportive friends, and colleagues and family members, but what I see they all have in common is mutual respect and interest in making each other happy.

I have an ASD partner who has no friends, has no interests (aside from work), who does almost nothing to do with child rearing, socializing, planning activities, holidays, etc. etc. etc. He is not a partner in the true sense of the word. It's exhausting for me to try to create a normal family life all by myself. If it were up to him, the children would be naked and starve to death, have no birthday parties, no vacations, probably not even a house to live in. All that and much much more is left to me. He puts all his energy into his job, and has none for me or our children. I'd like to have a husband, not a nice roommate who gives the kids rides and helps around then house when asked.

Sigh. What you're describing is something different from autism. I've said this a million times, but my likely ASD dad did almost all the housework, and almost 50% of the childrearing. His behavior was difficult in other ways, but nothing like what you describe. And, he had two long and apparently happy marriages.

The post I was responding to involved a woman miffed that her (supposedly) autistic inlaws did not enjoy her "fun little day trips" or converse in exactly the way she expected/demanded at dinner. THAT is where NTs get very rigid about their social norms. I know it's hard to grasp, but the very notion of people with autism acting "oddly" (ie differently than expected) IS at its heart a problem of NT people having trouble when others don't follow their rules. Now of course, we can say that people with autism ought to be able to learn how to play by the rules to the extent they can - and I think I agree with this - but there is a tremendous irony at the heart of characterizing autistic people as "rigid" and ignoring the rigidity of the NT world - and the utter cruelty it can show towards people who do not conform.

Your dad is not all autistics. you seem pretty rigid thinking yourself.

I don't know about the PPs dad but HFA dad's can definitely be caretakers.
I have a friend whose husband is diagnosed. He was the primary breadwinner while is wife sah when the kids were little. During covid he sort of fell apart mentally and now she works full time and he is a sah dad. He doesn't do things like she would, but he makes it work and I've seen it first hand.

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Anonymous wrote:PP and these recent posts all ring so true for me.

My MIL and BIL have tried their best to ignore me for 25 years and when they’re with my husband, the three of them don’t interact with anyone else. Like: my children and I siting at the table with them. It’s soooo bizarre but I also have come to realize that they are each other’s safe place.

My FIL and MIL never did anything with their children or tried to engage with them. They basically had them work in the family biz and that was family time.

Being married to me has really opened my DH up to what a family can be and to what emotional connection is but he still struggles with it daily and is beyond socially awkward.

This is exactly what happened to me when we took DH's parents out to a very nice restaurant in the city where they live. DH's mom sat next to me and across from her only grandchildren, and said not a single word to us. She spent the entire meal speaking with DH (who sat next to her) and to her other son and her husband. The four of them were in their own little world. When I pointed this out to DH, he hadn't even noticed it. I told him I was never taking his parents out to dinner again, and we haven't. It was humiliating to me, but I don't think his mom even realized what she was doing. I think all four of them are on the spectrum, but DH presents better and is more successful in his career. And he's married to me, which gives him the appearance of a NT person, which he is not.

Interesting. So you think the correct response to neurodiverse behavior is to declare yourself “humiliated” and refuse to ever go out with them again. Wow NT behaviors just seem so normal and kind.

I only take people to nice dinners if they appreciate it, have back & forth conversations, and don’t neglect others around the table. You could even call it quid pro quo in PP’s case.

Oh god. Getting major narc/borderline vibes. “You didn’t pay enough attention to meeeeee at dinner, you are so evil and bad! I will never ever be seen in public with you!”

Between a borderline and a person with autism, I will always pick the latter.

What does whatever you wrote have to do with the woman whose MIL and BIL ignore her and the grandchild for an entire dinner and just talk to themselves?

This person who wrote the weird narc post is a troll. Other than trolling, I have no idea why this person is posting on this thread. S/he has nothing to say to the OP.

I wrote that. And yes I stopped taking my aspie in laws in beach trips, day trips, nice restaurants, and nice gifts. They never cared about the gifts or experiences and they don’t care that the only person in the lives who does them, stopped offering them up. They don’t care and now I don’t either. Win, win!

Loccidtane lotions gift? MIL gave them to her cleaning lady. I rec’d a plastic hair brush.

Beach trip with our family? I was asked “how do you know this is a top 10 beach, you haven’t been to the others, it’s just an article”.

What’d you think about our cool day trip to annapolis? Silence, no thank you even.

Let’s go to this great German restaurant! Get there, FIL asks for a pizza.

Yeah, btdt, no thanks.

So basically you make no effort to do things they like, get mad that they like different things, and believe that they are the ones who lack social graces. Do I have that right?

Wrong again. Read it again.
They dont like to travel, eat out, do sporty stuff, talk during meals, so we don’t do those things with them any longer.
We hang out, watch tv, eat, eat dessert, read books, take walks. They get utility out of that and I don’t have to try to lead dinner conversations or plan an activity. Win win!

Yes it's nice you finally figured that out

You just having reading comp issues.

Pp figured it out after the first Xmas gift exchange, trip around town, or like third silent dinner. They don’t do gifts, don’t care about activities and don’t talk or interact. It’d be fatiguing and exhausting to carry that or lug them around. Thus PP quit trying and does that herself or with other people who do actually care and appreciate it.

I feel bad for those people figuring out the underlying AsD issue 15-30 years after the fact. They just have been going crazy wondering WTF was going on.
Now that Op knows what she is dealing with, she can make a plan and it feel bad doing the plan.

If you spend THIRTY YEARS without noticing that your in-laws don’t enjoy the “really nice daytrips!” you continuously organize, then really, who is failing to perceive social cues?

What is assumed to be NT behavior is almost 90% the NT being unable to accept that someone is different from them and doesn’t follow NT social rules. It’s a really interesting contradiction.

PP, are you on the autism spectrum yourself? What you are describing as "NT behavior" is bizarre.

My happily married NT friends have NT partners/husbands who have interests and friends, who make plans and participate in each other's lives. They do things together, and they do things separately, but at the same time, they are partners and they are the prime emotional support for each other. Yes they each have supportive friends, and colleagues and family members, but what I see they all have in common is mutual respect and interest in making each other happy.

I have an ASD partner who has no friends, has no interests (aside from work), who does almost nothing to do with child rearing, socializing, planning activities, holidays, etc. etc. etc. He is not a partner in the true sense of the word. It's exhausting for me to try to create a normal family life all by myself. If it were up to him, the children would be naked and starve to death, have no birthday parties, no vacations, probably not even a house to live in. All that and much much more is left to me. He puts all his energy into his job, and has none for me or our children. I'd like to have a husband, not a nice roommate who gives the kids rides and helps around then house when asked.

Sigh. What you're describing is something different from autism. I've said this a million times, but my likely ASD dad did almost all the housework, and almost 50% of the childrearing. His behavior was difficult in other ways, but nothing like what you describe. And, he had two long and apparently happy marriages.

The post I was responding to involved a woman miffed that her (supposedly) autistic inlaws did not enjoy her "fun little day trips" or converse in exactly the way she expected/demanded at dinner. THAT is where NTs get very rigid about their social norms. I know it's hard to grasp, but the very notion of people with autism acting "oddly" (ie differently than expected) IS at its heart a problem of NT people having trouble when others don't follow their rules. Now of course, we can say that people with autism ought to be able to learn how to play by the rules to the extent they can - and I think I agree with this - but there is a tremendous irony at the heart of characterizing autistic people as "rigid" and ignoring the rigidity of the NT world - and the utter cruelty it can show towards people who do not conform.

Your dad is not all autistics. you seem pretty rigid thinking yourself.

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Anonymous wrote:PP and these recent posts all ring so true for me.

My MIL and BIL have tried their best to ignore me for 25 years and when they’re with my husband, the three of them don’t interact with anyone else. Like: my children and I siting at the table with them. It’s soooo bizarre but I also have come to realize that they are each other’s safe place.

My FIL and MIL never did anything with their children or tried to engage with them. They basically had them work in the family biz and that was family time.

Being married to me has really opened my DH up to what a family can be and to what emotional connection is but he still struggles with it daily and is beyond socially awkward.

This is exactly what happened to me when we took DH's parents out to a very nice restaurant in the city where they live. DH's mom sat next to me and across from her only grandchildren, and said not a single word to us. She spent the entire meal speaking with DH (who sat next to her) and to her other son and her husband. The four of them were in their own little world. When I pointed this out to DH, he hadn't even noticed it. I told him I was never taking his parents out to dinner again, and we haven't. It was humiliating to me, but I don't think his mom even realized what she was doing. I think all four of them are on the spectrum, but DH presents better and is more successful in his career. And he's married to me, which gives him the appearance of a NT person, which he is not.

Interesting. So you think the correct response to neurodiverse behavior is to declare yourself “humiliated” and refuse to ever go out with them again. Wow NT behaviors just seem so normal and kind.

I only take people to nice dinners if they appreciate it, have back & forth conversations, and don’t neglect others around the table. You could even call it quid pro quo in PP’s case.

Oh god. Getting major narc/borderline vibes. “You didn’t pay enough attention to meeeeee at dinner, you are so evil and bad! I will never ever be seen in public with you!”

Between a borderline and a person with autism, I will always pick the latter.

What does whatever you wrote have to do with the woman whose MIL and BIL ignore her and the grandchild for an entire dinner and just talk to themselves?

This person who wrote the weird narc post is a troll. Other than trolling, I have no idea why this person is posting on this thread. S/he has nothing to say to the OP.

I wrote that. And yes I stopped taking my aspie in laws in beach trips, day trips, nice restaurants, and nice gifts. They never cared about the gifts or experiences and they don’t care that the only person in the lives who does them, stopped offering them up. They don’t care and now I don’t either. Win, win!

Loccidtane lotions gift? MIL gave them to her cleaning lady. I rec’d a plastic hair brush.

Beach trip with our family? I was asked “how do you know this is a top 10 beach, you haven’t been to the others, it’s just an article”.

What’d you think about our cool day trip to annapolis? Silence, no thank you even.

Let’s go to this great German restaurant! Get there, FIL asks for a pizza.

Yeah, btdt, no thanks.

So basically you make no effort to do things they like, get mad that they like different things, and believe that they are the ones who lack social graces. Do I have that right?

Wrong again. Read it again.
They dont like to travel, eat out, do sporty stuff, talk during meals, so we don’t do those things with them any longer.
We hang out, watch tv, eat, eat dessert, read books, take walks. They get utility out of that and I don’t have to try to lead dinner conversations or plan an activity. Win win!

Yes it's nice you finally figured that out

You just having reading comp issues.

Pp figured it out after the first Xmas gift exchange, trip around town, or like third silent dinner. They don’t do gifts, don’t care about activities and don’t talk or interact. It’d be fatiguing and exhausting to carry that or lug them around. Thus PP quit trying and does that herself or with other people who do actually care and appreciate it.

I feel bad for those people figuring out the underlying AsD issue 15-30 years after the fact. They just have been going crazy wondering WTF was going on.
Now that Op knows what she is dealing with, she can make a plan and it feel bad doing the plan.

If you spend THIRTY YEARS without noticing that your in-laws don’t enjoy the “really nice daytrips!” you continuously organize, then really, who is failing to perceive social cues?

What is assumed to be NT behavior is almost 90% the NT being unable to accept that someone is different from them and doesn’t follow NT social rules. It’s a really interesting contradiction.

PP, are you on the autism spectrum yourself? What you are describing as "NT behavior" is bizarre.

My happily married NT friends have NT partners/husbands who have interests and friends, who make plans and participate in each other's lives. They do things together, and they do things separately, but at the same time, they are partners and they are the prime emotional support for each other. Yes they each have supportive friends, and colleagues and family members, but what I see they all have in common is mutual respect and interest in making each other happy.

I have an ASD partner who has no friends, has no interests (aside from work), who does almost nothing to do with child rearing, socializing, planning activities, holidays, etc. etc. etc. He is not a partner in the true sense of the word. It's exhausting for me to try to create a normal family life all by myself. If it were up to him, the children would be naked and starve to death, have no birthday parties, no vacations, probably not even a house to live in. All that and much much more is left to me. He puts all his energy into his job, and has none for me or our children. I'd like to have a husband, not a nice roommate who gives the kids rides and helps around then house when asked.

Sigh. What you're describing is something different from autism. I've said this a million times, but my likely ASD dad did almost all the housework, and almost 50% of the childrearing. His behavior was difficult in other ways, but nothing like what you describe. And, he had two long and apparently happy marriages.

The post I was responding to involved a woman miffed that her (supposedly) autistic inlaws did not enjoy her "fun little day trips" or converse in exactly the way she expected/demanded at dinner. THAT is where NTs get very rigid about their social norms. I know it's hard to grasp, but the very notion of people with autism acting "oddly" (ie differently than expected) IS at its heart a problem of NT people having trouble when others don't follow their rules. Now of course, we can say that people with autism ought to be able to learn how to play by the rules to the extent they can - and I think I agree with this - but there is a tremendous irony at the heart of characterizing autistic people as "rigid" and ignoring the rigidity of the NT world - and the utter cruelty it can show towards people who do not conform.

Well said. Another default system that reveals the "rigidity of the NT world" is the traditional school day (public and most privates). My kids are not ASD but have severe ADHD. Even after putting them on meds it became clear that although they were no longer disruptive in class (and the teachers were now happy) they were quietly miserable and not learning anything. My then 8 yo son would get off the bus looking like a 60 yo coming home from his decades-long 9-5 job. My kids still take some meds but now we hybrid-homeschooling. The academic day is short and they have some autonomy to pursue personal interests during the day. This is not a neurodiverse need, it's a human need.

Meanwhile, as we get older my friends with NT kids are starting to see some of the anxiety associated with the traditional school day and tensions btwn homework and pursuing personal interests/free time (especially the girls and dealing with sophisticated social maneuvering). This is all "typical" but it's still a dysfunctional way to raise humans for the majority of their youth (I'd say about 20% of kids have unusually flexible and go with the flow personalities and will do well enough in any environment -- a minority, but a large enough one that helps maintain that status quo).

When the neurodiverse leave mainstream schooling it's comforting to label it as "special needs," something that can't be accommodated when you're sufficiently meeting the needs of 80%. But most of these kids are just bellwethers for the NT kids. They actually cant "mask" their frustrations with the typical school day as well as NT kids. That's the difference. But eventually a lot of the NT kids stop being able to mask and frustration with their social and academic lives emerge. Not always at school, but definitely when they get home.

Meanwhile, what kind of world does 13 formative years of being managed in a classroom look like when the kids become adults? In a word, rigid. School is a 7 hr/day, 13 year intervention. It's massive, even though we take it for granted. Now, I can have my kids opt out of participating. But they still have to live in a world where most of their peers have been raised in an environment that expects everyone to exist in lock-step. That's another big example of how the current environment exacerbates neurodiverse tendencies and makes them even more challenging than they might otherwise naturally be. It's a great system for people who thrive as middle-management and HR personnel, but doesn't play to more autonomous personality traits.

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Anonymous wrote:PP and these recent posts all ring so true for me.

My MIL and BIL have tried their best to ignore me for 25 years and when they’re with my husband, the three of them don’t interact with anyone else. Like: my children and I siting at the table with them. It’s soooo bizarre but I also have come to realize that they are each other’s safe place.

My FIL and MIL never did anything with their children or tried to engage with them. They basically had them work in the family biz and that was family time.

Being married to me has really opened my DH up to what a family can be and to what emotional connection is but he still struggles with it daily and is beyond socially awkward.

This is exactly what happened to me when we took DH's parents out to a very nice restaurant in the city where they live. DH's mom sat next to me and across from her only grandchildren, and said not a single word to us. She spent the entire meal speaking with DH (who sat next to her) and to her other son and her husband. The four of them were in their own little world. When I pointed this out to DH, he hadn't even noticed it. I told him I was never taking his parents out to dinner again, and we haven't. It was humiliating to me, but I don't think his mom even realized what she was doing. I think all four of them are on the spectrum, but DH presents better and is more successful in his career. And he's married to me, which gives him the appearance of a NT person, which he is not.

Interesting. So you think the correct response to neurodiverse behavior is to declare yourself “humiliated” and refuse to ever go out with them again. Wow NT behaviors just seem so normal and kind.

I only take people to nice dinners if they appreciate it, have back & forth conversations, and don’t neglect others around the table. You could even call it quid pro quo in PP’s case.

Oh god. Getting major narc/borderline vibes. “You didn’t pay enough attention to meeeeee at dinner, you are so evil and bad! I will never ever be seen in public with you!”

Between a borderline and a person with autism, I will always pick the latter.

What does whatever you wrote have to do with the woman whose MIL and BIL ignore her and the grandchild for an entire dinner and just talk to themselves?

This person who wrote the weird narc post is a troll. Other than trolling, I have no idea why this person is posting on this thread. S/he has nothing to say to the OP.

I wrote that. And yes I stopped taking my aspie in laws in beach trips, day trips, nice restaurants, and nice gifts. They never cared about the gifts or experiences and they don’t care that the only person in the lives who does them, stopped offering them up. They don’t care and now I don’t either. Win, win!

Loccidtane lotions gift? MIL gave them to her cleaning lady. I rec’d a plastic hair brush.

Beach trip with our family? I was asked “how do you know this is a top 10 beach, you haven’t been to the others, it’s just an article”.

What’d you think about our cool day trip to annapolis? Silence, no thank you even.

Let’s go to this great German restaurant! Get there, FIL asks for a pizza.

Yeah, btdt, no thanks.

So basically you make no effort to do things they like, get mad that they like different things, and believe that they are the ones who lack social graces. Do I have that right?

Wrong again. Read it again.
They dont like to travel, eat out, do sporty stuff, talk during meals, so we don’t do those things with them any longer.
We hang out, watch tv, eat, eat dessert, read books, take walks. They get utility out of that and I don’t have to try to lead dinner conversations or plan an activity. Win win!

Yes it's nice you finally figured that out

You just having reading comp issues.

Pp figured it out after the first Xmas gift exchange, trip around town, or like third silent dinner. They don’t do gifts, don’t care about activities and don’t talk or interact. It’d be fatiguing and exhausting to carry that or lug them around. Thus PP quit trying and does that herself or with other people who do actually care and appreciate it.

I feel bad for those people figuring out the underlying AsD issue 15-30 years after the fact. They just have been going crazy wondering WTF was going on.
Now that Op knows what she is dealing with, she can make a plan and it feel bad doing the plan.

If you spend THIRTY YEARS without noticing that your in-laws don’t enjoy the “really nice daytrips!” you continuously organize, then really, who is failing to perceive social cues?

What is assumed to be NT behavior is almost 90% the NT being unable to accept that someone is different from them and doesn’t follow NT social rules. It’s a really interesting contradiction.

PP, are you on the autism spectrum yourself? What you are describing as "NT behavior" is bizarre.

My happily married NT friends have NT partners/husbands who have interests and friends, who make plans and participate in each other's lives. They do things together, and they do things separately, but at the same time, they are partners and they are the prime emotional support for each other. Yes they each have supportive friends, and colleagues and family members, but what I see they all have in common is mutual respect and interest in making each other happy.

I have an ASD partner who has no friends, has no interests (aside from work), who does almost nothing to do with child rearing, socializing, planning activities, holidays, etc. etc. etc. He is not a partner in the true sense of the word. It's exhausting for me to try to create a normal family life all by myself. If it were up to him, the children would be naked and starve to death, have no birthday parties, no vacations, probably not even a house to live in. All that and much much more is left to me. He puts all his energy into his job, and has none for me or our children. I'd like to have a husband, not a nice roommate who gives the kids rides and helps around then house when asked.

Sigh. What you're describing is something different from autism. I've said this a million times, but my likely ASD dad did almost all the housework, and almost 50% of the childrearing. His behavior was difficult in other ways, but nothing like what you describe. And, he had two long and apparently happy marriages.

The post I was responding to involved a woman miffed that her (supposedly) autistic inlaws did not enjoy her "fun little day trips" or converse in exactly the way she expected/demanded at dinner. THAT is where NTs get very rigid about their social norms. I know it's hard to grasp, but the very notion of people with autism acting "oddly" (ie differently than expected) IS at its heart a problem of NT people having trouble when others don't follow their rules. Now of course, we can say that people with autism ought to be able to learn how to play by the rules to the extent they can - and I think I agree with this - but there is a tremendous irony at the heart of characterizing autistic people as "rigid" and ignoring the rigidity of the NT world - and the utter cruelty it can show towards people who do not conform.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your marriage is ONLY one part of your life. You need to do some serious work on yourself. It is the only way through. You need a rich, full life that doesn't involve him. He is not holding you back from this - you are. People in marriages adjust to all kinds of things - spouses being gone, spouses overseas for long periods in the military, spouses who become disabled. Work on yourself

OP, having BTDT, I agree this is where your focus should be. You need to grieve, and you need to understand yourself and why it has taken you so long to come to terms with the reality of the situation, why you picked the person you did, etc. I suspect there are echoes of the past that are keeping you stuck. If you leave w/o doing the work you will be just as unhappy I suspect. You owe it to yourself and to your kids to do this work and to make decisions from a different place.

You can have a warm, loving, mutually supportive relationship with a spouse who is any or all of these things. As long as you communicate well and have a strong, loving bond with each other. I know couples in the military who spend very long periods apart, yet they are extremely close, communicate daily, share everything with each other. I know a family where the mother is disabled, and the father's job requires that he spends months away from home. They also have a close, loving relationship.

ASD is completely different. The close loving bond is missing. That's not something that you can adjust to. It's not a marriage. It's merely coexistence.

Just dropping in to say that people with autism have feelings and yes, love their friends and family.

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Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure if this is practical advice for the OP or more of a social-anthropologically minded response to some of the PPs but it may be useful to take a moment to familiarize with marriage and kinship patterns from basically any culture and time period pre 20th cent. Once you realize how much we currently require from our marital relationships (lover, friend, domestic laborer, financial provider) it doesn't take much to see how a larger group of people, and certainly those who are not neurotypical, can fail to meet expectations more easily.

In general, contemporary society exacerbates neurodiverse traits which I think is one of the reasons we are seeing an increase in diagnoses. So many things that made life simpler to navigate have disappeared: clearly defined social norms and expectations, clearly defined gender roles, clear lines between work and home life, widespread religious life and the daily/weekly rhythms associated with religious rituals and customs, etc. Some of these things you might say we are better off without but there are always knock-on effects with social change and the fact that we have very few remaining social structures that we all organize our lives by makes life more stressful for the neurodiverse adult. There are no guardrails. We all have to reinvent the wheel of what functional social and homes lives look like and it's harder for those with ASD, and to a lesser extent ADHD, to do this. Adults need role models too and nuclear families are by default siloed off from one another.

Maybe some will read this and say well, we live in the here and now. And I agree that you can't just exit society and live in a world where your ideals about marriage and home life arent impacted by the mainstream culture. But when you take some time to reflect on how our current marriage, kinship and social patterns (ie egalitarian/nuclear family, broken/distant family networks, lack of religious community, etc) are so totally alien from most of human history, it doesn't take much to see that we've created a society that is harder for those who aren't naturals at forming social connections to navigate. We literally have parents on here saying that the world we live in can no longer support someone with ASD having a spouse or kids--the marital expectations are just too demanding. That's been taken away from them. And that's a problem for all of us bc human civilization cannot flourish without the neurodiverse.

I've been on these forums for a decade+, and this is the smartest, kindest, most gracious reply I think I've ever read. Thank you, pp. Now go write a book!

Well, at first it would seem that way, because it's well-written. But what it is really saying is now that women are not relegated to the home, dictated largely by the Church, men, and espeically those who are rigid, cannot handle it. That's what the PP is saying. It's garbage and a poor excuse for allowing men to treat their wives badly.

That's not what I'm saying. You know how women love to come on here and get advice from anonymous strangers about their boyfriends and husbands and try to figure out what's wrong and why they're not bringing them the happiness they want or expect? Im saying that we, as female humans, used to have that in real life, and that we didn't rely on the husbands in our lives for nearly as much of our happiness as we do today. Hell, for the past 3,000 years or so (which is the blink of an eye) we even shared husbands for much of the time.

Bc of who you are and where and when you were born, you are rigid in your own way bc you seem to have a tendency to view life strictly through a feminist lens. That's not wrong, but it's myopic if you are reluctant to expand your perspective. There are all sorts of ways to assess the womens liberation and sexual revolution. If you're a woman btwn the ages of 35-70 with a career that you enjoy, you probably see it as an unmitigated success. Others can acknowledge the benefits of the gains women made while being honest and nuanced about the drawbacks, many of which we are only beginning to come to terms with. Some people, including but not limited to ASD men, are less well off. Is the ASD husband who struggles to fulfill his expected role as husband and father today objectively less worthy than the 1950s housewife who struggled to find meaning in hers? Who might self-medicate (mask?) just to get through the life that was expected of her?

Btw, I can't help but point out that ASD is not exclusive men. Women are autistic too, although I suspect no one is mentioning that here bc in the current moment, a woman who doesn't live up to female typical social norms is acceptable in a way that men who cant live up to female typical social norms isn't.

I have sympathy for anyone who for whatever reason is experiencing domestic unhappiness, but whether you're talking about immigrants, religious groups or people with a particular neuro-profile, lumping people together to point out how they make everything worse is just typical human bigotry to make people feel better about themselves.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your marriage is ONLY one part of your life. You need to do some serious work on yourself. It is the only way through. You need a rich, full life that doesn't involve him. He is not holding you back from this - you are. People in marriages adjust to all kinds of things - spouses being gone, spouses overseas for long periods in the military, spouses who become disabled. Work on yourself

OP, having BTDT, I agree this is where your focus should be. You need to grieve, and you need to understand yourself and why it has taken you so long to come to terms with the reality of the situation, why you picked the person you did, etc. I suspect there are echoes of the past that are keeping you stuck. If you leave w/o doing the work you will be just as unhappy I suspect. You owe it to yourself and to your kids to do this work and to make decisions from a different place.

You can have a warm, loving, mutually supportive relationship with a spouse who is any or all of these things. As long as you communicate well and have a strong, loving bond with each other. I know couples in the military who spend very long periods apart, yet they are extremely close, communicate daily, share everything with each other. I know a family where the mother is disabled, and the father's job requires that he spends months away from home. They also have a close, loving relationship.

ASD is completely different. The close loving bond is missing. That's not something that you can adjust to. It's not a marriage. It's merely coexistence.

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Anonymous wrote:PP and these recent posts all ring so true for me.

My MIL and BIL have tried their best to ignore me for 25 years and when they’re with my husband, the three of them don’t interact with anyone else. Like: my children and I siting at the table with them. It’s soooo bizarre but I also have come to realize that they are each other’s safe place.

My FIL and MIL never did anything with their children or tried to engage with them. They basically had them work in the family biz and that was family time.

Being married to me has really opened my DH up to what a family can be and to what emotional connection is but he still struggles with it daily and is beyond socially awkward.

This is exactly what happened to me when we took DH's parents out to a very nice restaurant in the city where they live. DH's mom sat next to me and across from her only grandchildren, and said not a single word to us. She spent the entire meal speaking with DH (who sat next to her) and to her other son and her husband. The four of them were in their own little world. When I pointed this out to DH, he hadn't even noticed it. I told him I was never taking his parents out to dinner again, and we haven't. It was humiliating to me, but I don't think his mom even realized what she was doing. I think all four of them are on the spectrum, but DH presents better and is more successful in his career. And he's married to me, which gives him the appearance of a NT person, which he is not.

Interesting. So you think the correct response to neurodiverse behavior is to declare yourself “humiliated” and refuse to ever go out with them again. Wow NT behaviors just seem so normal and kind.

I only take people to nice dinners if they appreciate it, have back & forth conversations, and don’t neglect others around the table. You could even call it quid pro quo in PP’s case.

Oh god. Getting major narc/borderline vibes. “You didn’t pay enough attention to meeeeee at dinner, you are so evil and bad! I will never ever be seen in public with you!”

Between a borderline and a person with autism, I will always pick the latter.

What does whatever you wrote have to do with the woman whose MIL and BIL ignore her and the grandchild for an entire dinner and just talk to themselves?

This person who wrote the weird narc post is a troll. Other than trolling, I have no idea why this person is posting on this thread. S/he has nothing to say to the OP.

I wrote that. And yes I stopped taking my aspie in laws in beach trips, day trips, nice restaurants, and nice gifts. They never cared about the gifts or experiences and they don’t care that the only person in the lives who does them, stopped offering them up. They don’t care and now I don’t either. Win, win!

Loccidtane lotions gift? MIL gave them to her cleaning lady. I rec’d a plastic hair brush.

Beach trip with our family? I was asked “how do you know this is a top 10 beach, you haven’t been to the others, it’s just an article”.

What’d you think about our cool day trip to annapolis? Silence, no thank you even.

Let’s go to this great German restaurant! Get there, FIL asks for a pizza.

Yeah, btdt, no thanks.

So basically you make no effort to do things they like, get mad that they like different things, and believe that they are the ones who lack social graces. Do I have that right?

Wrong again. Read it again.
They dont like to travel, eat out, do sporty stuff, talk during meals, so we don’t do those things with them any longer.
We hang out, watch tv, eat, eat dessert, read books, take walks. They get utility out of that and I don’t have to try to lead dinner conversations or plan an activity. Win win!

Yes it's nice you finally figured that out

You just having reading comp issues.

Pp figured it out after the first Xmas gift exchange, trip around town, or like third silent dinner. They don’t do gifts, don’t care about activities and don’t talk or interact. It’d be fatiguing and exhausting to carry that or lug them around. Thus PP quit trying and does that herself or with other people who do actually care and appreciate it.

I feel bad for those people figuring out the underlying AsD issue 15-30 years after the fact. They just have been going crazy wondering WTF was going on.
Now that Op knows what she is dealing with, she can make a plan and it feel bad doing the plan.

If you spend THIRTY YEARS without noticing that your in-laws don’t enjoy the “really nice daytrips!” you continuously organize, then really, who is failing to perceive social cues?

What is assumed to be NT behavior is almost 90% the NT being unable to accept that someone is different from them and doesn’t follow NT social rules. It’s a really interesting contradiction.

PP, are you on the autism spectrum yourself? What you are describing as "NT behavior" is bizarre.

My happily married NT friends have NT partners/husbands who have interests and friends, who make plans and participate in each other's lives. They do things together, and they do things separately, but at the same time, they are partners and they are the prime emotional support for each other. Yes they each have supportive friends, and colleagues and family members, but what I see they all have in common is mutual respect and interest in making each other happy.

I have an ASD partner who has no friends, has no interests (aside from work), who does almost nothing to do with child rearing, socializing, planning activities, holidays, etc. etc. etc. He is not a partner in the true sense of the word. It's exhausting for me to try to create a normal family life all by myself. If it were up to him, the children would be naked and starve to death, have no birthday parties, no vacations, probably not even a house to live in. All that and much much more is left to me. He puts all his energy into his job, and has none for me or our children. I'd like to have a husband, not a nice roommate who gives the kids rides and helps around then house when asked.

Anonymous wrote:She needs to grieve.

Read books on ASD/Nt couples.

Get stronger and more self care, focus in herself more.

Find friends and support. Start telling close family and friends what yours going through. MANY get it.

This will prob take one full year, depending on how busy you are. But you will come out of knowing yourself and your spouse better than anyone and better than himself. He will be predictable, you will see the patterns, the triggers, the shortcomings. Maybe you will see some strengths- he will wake up early and do stuff on a list, he can drive the kids around while in work calls, he can cook a meal with blue apron pics/ instructions, etc.

Thanks for this helpful post. I'm starting to move in this direction and think hard about whether or not I can stay married to this man who can be organized and successful at work, but can't heat up a can of soup at home without explicit instructions. I've spent years trying to explain to him how I need him to behave, to no avail. Learning that he has ASD has changed the way I see and interact with him. I used to yell at him when he forgot really simple, obvious things, but now I realize he's impaired, so I explain (again) where to put the can opener without getting too exasperated. It still baffles me that he can be successful at work and an idiot at home -- it still feels like this is a choice he's making. I don't want to divorce him, but I don't want to be resentful and frustrated and lonely for the rest of my life either.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Correct. While I agree that the poster who made the statement on today's society verses past generations is correct and the rebuttals also correct, it doesn't make either of them untrue. Home life is more complex for males today and some of them are still more comfortable working away at something rather than socializing at the home or with others. Women married to men like this should appreciate the money and the work the man does and get over having a deep relationship with someone less in touch with their feelings and social skills. Appreciate that aspect of their person which contributes to the family. Courts care that the children get to see both parents to the maximum amount possible and that they are provided for. That's about it.

Lol. For the love of god, don’t males have any self respect?

Do not get married if all you have to offer someone or your kids is your paycheck plus neglect. Or at least be very upfront with your cool arrangement proposal.

There are military dudes like this, bragging about offer three hots and a cot. Do you really want to marry someone who says: well, it's better than being homeless and on the street?

No you don’t. But he sounds up front about it, not hiding it so that helps 98% or the female population walk away fast.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Correct. While I agree that the poster who made the statement on today's society verses past generations is correct and the rebuttals also correct, it doesn't make either of them untrue. Home life is more complex for males today and some of them are still more comfortable working away at something rather than socializing at the home or with others. Women married to men like this should appreciate the money and the work the man does and get over having a deep relationship with someone less in touch with their feelings and social skills. Appreciate that aspect of their person which contributes to the family. Courts care that the children get to see both parents to the maximum amount possible and that they are provided for. That's about it.

Lol. For the love of god, don’t males have any self respect?

Do not get married if all you have to offer someone or your kids is your paycheck plus neglect. Or at least be very upfront with your cool arrangement proposal.

There are military dudes like this, bragging about offer three hots and a cot. Do you really want to marry someone who says: well, it's better than being homeless and on the street?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Correct. While I agree that the poster who made the statement on today's society verses past generations is correct and the rebuttals also correct, it doesn't make either of them untrue. Home life is more complex for males today and some of them are still more comfortable working away at something rather than socializing at the home or with others. Women married to men like this should appreciate the money and the work the man does and get over having a deep relationship with someone less in touch with their feelings and social skills. Appreciate that aspect of their person which contributes to the family. Courts care that the children get to see both parents to the maximum amount possible and that they are provided for. That's about it.

Lol. For the love of god, don’t males have any self respect?

Do not get married if all you have to offer someone or your kids is your paycheck plus neglect. Or at least be very upfront with your cool arrangement proposal.

There are real people like this though. Check out the other trending thread about the guy who finds the women he dates moving from attractive to unattractive within a 6 month period and wonders what's wrong with the women.