Anonymous
03/18/2023 19:48
Subject: Arlington "missing middle"
Anonymous wrote:MM is a solution looking for a problem.
Building 6-plex apartments on single family lots isn't the solution. Arlington has plenty of apartments. What everyone wants is a single family home in Arlington but just can't afford it. So, sorry, but that's the way the free market works.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/651-S-Greenbrier-St-Arlington-VA-22204/12090510_zpid/
This is $820k. Are the proposed duplexes and THs really going to be priced lower than that?
Anonymous
03/18/2023 19:40
Subject: Arlington "missing middle"
MM is a solution looking for a problem.
Building 6-plex apartments on single family lots isn't the solution. Arlington has plenty of apartments. What everyone wants is a single family home in Arlington but just can't afford it. So, sorry, but that's the way the free market works.
Building 6-plex apartments on single family lots isn't the solution. Arlington has plenty of apartments. What everyone wants is a single family home in Arlington but just can't afford it. So, sorry, but that's the way the free market works.
Anonymous
03/18/2023 18:02
Subject: Re:Arlington "missing middle"
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They have given the thumbs up to the proposal and the middle finger to current residents.
At least there will be an annual cap to the permits and a design book that developers and future slumlords will have to choose from.
https://www.arlnow.com/2023/03/09/arlington-planning-commission-gives-thumbs-up-to-missing-middle-zoning-changes/
Many current residents support the proposal.
Current apartment renters. Basically builders started with urban village model (high density tapering off from transit hubs) which is a very sensible model, and built higher and higher, and then courted those rental “residents” to support high density in all of Arlington, abandoning smart growth and urban village.
Residents are residents, no? Or do only some residents count as residents?
I wonder if those apartment dwellers who supposedly support the proposal were informed that missing middle housing will start at $600K for a one bedroom.
We are one of those “apartment dwellers” you assume are broke. We can afford $500-600k for a 1 br right now but we can’t afford that with a condo fee of a high rise building that continues to escalate yearly adding close to a $1k a month in fees. OTOH a very small building with a few units? That fee would be significantly less and put it in reach.
Unfortunately, the 6 apartments are going to be rentals. No developer is going to take the time/risk to sell 6 different apartments. They are going to be sold to institutional investors or local real estate companies. But it’s really cute that you think that. https://www.nbcnews.com/business/real-estate/who-s-outbidding-you-tens-thousands-dollars-house-hedge-fund-n1274597
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/03/22/two-bedroom-condos-dc-glover-park-priced-550000/
Anonymous
03/18/2023 18:00
Subject: Re:Arlington "missing middle"
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They have given the thumbs up to the proposal and the middle finger to current residents.
At least there will be an annual cap to the permits and a design book that developers and future slumlords will have to choose from.
https://www.arlnow.com/2023/03/09/arlington-planning-commission-gives-thumbs-up-to-missing-middle-zoning-changes/
Many current residents support the proposal.
Current apartment renters. Basically builders started with urban village model (high density tapering off from transit hubs) which is a very sensible model, and built higher and higher, and then courted those rental “residents” to support high density in all of Arlington, abandoning smart growth and urban village.
Residents are residents, no? Or do only some residents count as residents?
I wonder if those apartment dwellers who supposedly support the proposal were informed that missing middle housing will start at $600K for a one bedroom.
We are one of those “apartment dwellers” you assume are broke. We can afford $500-600k for a 1 br right now but we can’t afford that with a condo fee of a high rise building that continues to escalate yearly adding close to a $1k a month in fees. OTOH a very small building with a few units? That fee would be significantly less and put it in reach.
Unfortunately, the 6 apartments are going to be rentals. No developer is going to take the time/risk to sell 6 different apartments. They are going to be sold to institutional investors or local real estate companies. But it’s really cute that you think that. https://www.nbcnews.com/business/real-estate/who-s-outbidding-you-tens-thousands-dollars-house-hedge-fund-n1274597
Anonymous
03/18/2023 17:50
Subject: Re:Arlington "missing middle"
Anonymous wrote:Many of the huge new homes could almost be four-plexes. Absurdly huge and leaving a few inches of grass on the lot.
Just like the hideous new single family builds throughout north Arlington.
Anonymous
03/18/2023 17:47
Subject: Re:Arlington "missing middle"
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The problem with all this is that people with no skin in the game are talking as if they should have the same respect as homeowners.
When you look at the YIMBYs and the do gooders pushing this thing, you find a ton of them are renters. They live on the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor and think they can tell homeowners how their lots should be zoned.
We really need to start taking property ownership into account when electing local officials and providing County services. You should get a vote weighted by the value of your property. If you’re a taker you shouldn’t vote as that’s a conflict of interest.
This extends to the schools that will get way more crowded with this. Your place in school should be tied to the tax dollars you generate. If you live in a $3m home you choose your teacher and classes first. If you rent I’m a so-called affordable housing apartment your kid attends school at night with the second or third shift teachers. Let the takers live in Arlington if they get a grant or public housing, but don’t treat them the same as homeowners’ kids.
We don’t choose our parents.
Anonymous
03/18/2023 17:46
Subject: Re:Arlington "missing middle"
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The problem with all this is that people with no skin in the game are talking as if they should have the same respect as homeowners.
When you look at the YIMBYs and the do gooders pushing this thing, you find a ton of them are renters. They live on the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor and think they can tell homeowners how their lots should be zoned.
We really need to start taking property ownership into account when electing local officials and providing County services. You should get a vote weighted by the value of your property. If you’re a taker you shouldn’t vote as that’s a conflict of interest.
This extends to the schools that will get way more crowded with this. Your place in school should be tied to the tax dollars you generate. If you live in a $3m home you choose your teacher and classes first. If you rent I’m a so-called affordable housing apartment your kid attends school at night with the second or third shift teachers. Let the takers live in Arlington if they get a grant or public housing, but don’t treat them the same as homeowners’ kids.
Let me introduce you to the concept of a public school.
Anonymous
03/18/2023 15:27
Subject: Re:Arlington "missing middle"
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They have given the thumbs up to the proposal and the middle finger to current residents.
At least there will be an annual cap to the permits and a design book that developers and future slumlords will have to choose from.
https://www.arlnow.com/2023/03/09/arlington-planning-commission-gives-thumbs-up-to-missing-middle-zoning-changes/
Many current residents support the proposal.
Current apartment renters. Basically builders started with urban village model (high density tapering off from transit hubs) which is a very sensible model, and built higher and higher, and then courted those rental “residents” to support high density in all of Arlington, abandoning smart growth and urban village.
Residents are residents, no? Or do only some residents count as residents?
I wonder if those apartment dwellers who supposedly support the proposal were informed that missing middle housing will start at $600K for a one bedroom.
We are one of those “apartment dwellers” you assume are broke. We can afford $500-600k for a 1 br right now but we can’t afford that with a condo fee of a high rise building that continues to escalate yearly adding close to a $1k a month in fees. OTOH a very small building with a few units? That fee would be significantly less and put it in reach.
Np. You’re delusional if you think the “very small building with few units” aren’t going to have similar fees.
No it’s only people like you who are delusional.
Elevators one of the biggest maintaining and ongoing costs
Then pools - cost of water
Turns out the added insurance for those aren’t as high is people think
Then - depends on age - water for residents; even older building - heat and ac
Management staff - to manage day to day issues
Common area upkeep and common element upkeep
Parking lot or parking garage up keep
In addition residents may or may not get parking and may have to purchase or rent a space
Then there must be adequate reserves
Small building - 6 or so units - may or may not have it structured to be an HOA - or it may cover very limited elements
Every person gets their own services and does their own upkeep
And redfin and zillow are not reliable for condo fees
condo fees with many units base fees on sq ft
Anonymous
03/17/2023 11:18
Subject: Re:Arlington "missing middle"
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The problem with all this is that people with no skin in the game are talking as if they should have the same respect as homeowners.
When you look at the YIMBYs and the do gooders pushing this thing, you find a ton of them are renters. They live on the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor and think they can tell homeowners how their lots should be zoned.
We really need to start taking property ownership into account when electing local officials and providing County services. You should get a vote weighted by the value of your property. If you’re a taker you shouldn’t vote as that’s a conflict of interest.
This extends to the schools that will get way more crowded with this. Your place in school should be tied to the tax dollars you generate. If you live in a $3m home you choose your teacher and classes first. If you rent I’m a so-called affordable housing apartment your kid attends school at night with the second or third shift teachers. Let the takers live in Arlington if they get a grant or public housing, but don’t treat them the same as homeowners’ kids.
Only wealthy landowners had a vote. We tried that once. It lead us right to where we are today.
If we had this system, I would consider sending my kids to APS schools. But they’re going private since it won’t happen anytime soon in.
Anonymous
03/17/2023 10:10
Subject: Re:Arlington "missing middle"
Anonymous wrote:The problem with all this is that people with no skin in the game are talking as if they should have the same respect as homeowners.
When you look at the YIMBYs and the do gooders pushing this thing, you find a ton of them are renters. They live on the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor and think they can tell homeowners how their lots should be zoned.
We really need to start taking property ownership into account when electing local officials and providing County services. You should get a vote weighted by the value of your property. If you’re a taker you shouldn’t vote as that’s a conflict of interest.
This extends to the schools that will get way more crowded with this. Your place in school should be tied to the tax dollars you generate. If you live in a $3m home you choose your teacher and classes first. If you rent I’m a so-called affordable housing apartment your kid attends school at night with the second or third shift teachers. Let the takers live in Arlington if they get a grant or public housing, but don’t treat them the same as homeowners’ kids.
Only wealthy landowners had a vote. We tried that once. It lead us right to where we are today.
Anonymous
03/17/2023 07:39
Subject: Re:Arlington "missing middle"
Anonymous wrote:The problem with all this is that people with no skin in the game are talking as if they should have the same respect as homeowners.
When you look at the YIMBYs and the do gooders pushing this thing, you find a ton of them are renters. They live on the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor and think they can tell homeowners how their lots should be zoned.
We really need to start taking property ownership into account when electing local officials and providing County services. You should get a vote weighted by the value of your property. If you’re a taker you shouldn’t vote as that’s a conflict of interest.
This extends to the schools that will get way more crowded with this. Your place in school should be tied to the tax dollars you generate. If you live in a $3m home you choose your teacher and classes first. If you rent I’m a so-called affordable housing apartment your kid attends school at night with the second or third shift teachers. Let the takers live in Arlington if they get a grant or public housing, but don’t treat them the same as homeowners’ kids.
Damn you, Poe's Law.
Anonymous
03/17/2023 05:42
Subject: Re:Arlington "missing middle"
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They have given the thumbs up to the proposal and the middle finger to current residents.
At least there will be an annual cap to the permits and a design book that developers and future slumlords will have to choose from.
https://www.arlnow.com/2023/03/09/arlington-planning-commission-gives-thumbs-up-to-missing-middle-zoning-changes/
Many current residents support the proposal.
Current apartment renters. Basically builders started with urban village model (high density tapering off from transit hubs) which is a very sensible model, and built higher and higher, and then courted those rental “residents” to support high density in all of Arlington, abandoning smart growth and urban village.
Residents are residents, no? Or do only some residents count as residents?
I wonder if those apartment dwellers who supposedly support the proposal were informed that missing middle housing will start at $600K for a one bedroom.
We are one of those “apartment dwellers” you assume are broke. We can afford $500-600k for a 1 br right now but we can’t afford that with a condo fee of a high rise building that continues to escalate yearly adding close to a $1k a month in fees. OTOH a very small building with a few units? That fee would be significantly less and put it in reach.
Np. You’re delusional if you think the “very small building with few units” aren’t going to have similar fees.
Sounds like someone hasn’t done their homework. The county’s consultant estimated that condo fees for a six-plex would be about $250 per unit per month. That’s in line with that new twelve-plex going up in Fort Myer Heights, whose fees range from $250 for 1BR to $515 for 3BR.
Anonymous
03/17/2023 05:33
Subject: Re:Arlington "missing middle"
Anonymous wrote:The problem with all this is that people with no skin in the game are talking as if they should have the same respect as homeowners.
When you look at the YIMBYs and the do gooders pushing this thing, you find a ton of them are renters. They live on the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor and think they can tell homeowners how their lots should be zoned.
We really need to start taking property ownership into account when electing local officials and providing County services. You should get a vote weighted by the value of your property. If you’re a taker you shouldn’t vote as that’s a conflict of interest.
This extends to the schools that will get way more crowded with this. Your place in school should be tied to the tax dollars you generate. If you live in a $3m home you choose your teacher and classes first. If you rent I’m a so-called affordable housing apartment your kid attends school at night with the second or third shift teachers. Let the takers live in Arlington if they get a grant or public housing, but don’t treat them the same as homeowners’ kids.
Why not bring back poll taxes and literacy tests while we’re at it?
Wait, hold on. I’m seeing that only ~20% of Black households in the county are homeowners. So we can disenfranchise the remaining 80% of Black households by, as you suggest, “taking property ownership into account.”
How much would you weigh each of those Black votes? Three-fifths sound about right to you?
Anonymous
03/17/2023 00:45
Subject: Re:Arlington "missing middle"
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They have given the thumbs up to the proposal and the middle finger to current residents.
At least there will be an annual cap to the permits and a design book that developers and future slumlords will have to choose from.
https://www.arlnow.com/2023/03/09/arlington-planning-commission-gives-thumbs-up-to-missing-middle-zoning-changes/
Many current residents support the proposal.
Current apartment renters. Basically builders started with urban village model (high density tapering off from transit hubs) which is a very sensible model, and built higher and higher, and then courted those rental “residents” to support high density in all of Arlington, abandoning smart growth and urban village.
Residents are residents, no? Or do only some residents count as residents?
I wonder if those apartment dwellers who supposedly support the proposal were informed that missing middle housing will start at $600K for a one bedroom.
We are one of those “apartment dwellers” you assume are broke. We can afford $500-600k for a 1 br right now but we can’t afford that with a condo fee of a high rise building that continues to escalate yearly adding close to a $1k a month in fees. OTOH a very small building with a few units? That fee would be significantly less and put it in reach.
You're really better off in the high rise. Just avoid pools and 24-hour staff, and fees will be lower (the pool drives up insurance and maintenance costs, and employing staff in this area is expensive).
Also missing middle housing will probably be wood framed, meaning that the walls and floors will be paper thin, and if your neighbors make the slightest bit of noise, it will be awful; better off in a high rise that is required to be made of concrete.
Anonymous
03/17/2023 00:03
Subject: Re:Arlington "missing middle"
The problem with all this is that people with no skin in the game are talking as if they should have the same respect as homeowners.
When you look at the YIMBYs and the do gooders pushing this thing, you find a ton of them are renters. They live on the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor and think they can tell homeowners how their lots should be zoned.
We really need to start taking property ownership into account when electing local officials and providing County services. You should get a vote weighted by the value of your property. If you’re a taker you shouldn’t vote as that’s a conflict of interest.
This extends to the schools that will get way more crowded with this. Your place in school should be tied to the tax dollars you generate. If you live in a $3m home you choose your teacher and classes first. If you rent I’m a so-called affordable housing apartment your kid attends school at night with the second or third shift teachers. Let the takers live in Arlington if they get a grant or public housing, but don’t treat them the same as homeowners’ kids.
When you look at the YIMBYs and the do gooders pushing this thing, you find a ton of them are renters. They live on the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor and think they can tell homeowners how their lots should be zoned.
We really need to start taking property ownership into account when electing local officials and providing County services. You should get a vote weighted by the value of your property. If you’re a taker you shouldn’t vote as that’s a conflict of interest.
This extends to the schools that will get way more crowded with this. Your place in school should be tied to the tax dollars you generate. If you live in a $3m home you choose your teacher and classes first. If you rent I’m a so-called affordable housing apartment your kid attends school at night with the second or third shift teachers. Let the takers live in Arlington if they get a grant or public housing, but don’t treat them the same as homeowners’ kids.