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Anonymous wrote:It’s on Vimeo. The cops came in hot. Not sure if he didn’t pull over immediately but they were clearly angry and dragged him from the car. He was calm and trying to talk to them. He got scared and ran. They got angry that they had to chase him. Looks like one cop maybe got sprayed in his eye.

They find him and kick him in the head multiple times. They hold him while others near him.

How can anyone feel safe around police no matter your color or their color? These men beat him to death.

I’m so heartbroken for his family. I can’t imagine dying like that. Feeling so helpless and terrified.

So sickening.

Being enraged to riot is understandable but it’s not the cops who will suffer.

I know the job messes with your head.

I wish we weren’t such a violent country/culture.

What a $hitty world we’ve created for our children.

There's something really wrong with many, many, many men. They have these fragile little egos and when something doesn't go their way, they react to an insane level. Is it right to run from a cop? No, but it should never be a death sentence or result in straight up violence.

I generally advocate for doing what cops say and dealing with any wring doing in court. But after watching the video, how hot they came in, dragging him from the car, screaming and oepoer spraying him while he tried to de-escalate...at a certain point, if I think my life is in danger, I'm going to try to get away. I can't really blame him for that. Maybe they killed him because he ran, but Tyre ran because he thought they were going to kill him. And they did.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

Great strategy! Fight the police because they will kill you if you don't. ha

I mean he could have laid there and let them suffocate him against the ground or beat him to death on the spot. I’d at least give myself the chance to live by running. He’s seen all the same videos and court cases of these scenarios to know, he’s likely going to die. I mean hell at this point being in your home and eating ice cream or sleeping can get you killed by cops with zero liability from the cops. Reckless driving/DUI does not justify beating a person to death, but I guess if you are black that’s the reason it is. He pulled over and stopped for Christ sake.

+1. Tyre Nichols did not die because he failed to follow directions. He died because these pigs wanted to kill him. That’s it.

Cops murder people all the time who comply with their directions.

You think this never happens? A cop in Florida shot a Black behavioral therapist who was complying when the autistic boy who was supposed to comply wasn’t. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna745716

Nobody said that. It rarely happens. Do you realize that you aren't privy to what over a million police officers do on a daily basis? You only know what pops up on your phone, and that's a big difference.

DP. You think the fact that not every cop brutalizes people excuses the ones who do? WTF is wrong with you?

DP. Nowhere in the PP’s post did they say that the officers should be excused for their behavior. Nothing is wrong with that PP. They simply posted that incidents are actually rare, despite what social media shows. Statistics prove this. Over 99% of police interactions (per FBI statistics) involve no use of force. That doesn’t mean there aren’t horrific uses of force, but it does demonstrate that this is rare. Of the uses of force that do occur, most are deemed justified. (Keep in mind that merely putting on handcuffs can be a use of force.)

I’m sure the PP would appreciate if you don’t jump to conclusions.

I would suggest you go back and reread the exchange, because pp absolutely was trying to deflect from the brutality of Nichols’ murder by citing to the fact that not all cops do this.

Are you suggesting that all cops do this? Really?
The PP said nothing wrong.

One bad apple spoils the bunch, and there is a lot more than one bad apple in the police forces in the United States.

This is a stupid view. There are bad apples in every single profession. Should we just get rid of everything?

DP

Agree - we should not throw the baby out with the dirty bath water. We need to invest much more in police training … they have a difficult and risky but important job.

Do you know what happens if you as a cop intervene and stop your fellow officers once they start abusing a person? The officer just put a target on his back. He’s now an officer who can’t be trusted. At any time he can be hung out to dry, left on an island when he’s supposed to have backup.

When you’re an officer, you’re a member of the gang. What happens when a gang member turns on his gang? Exactly.

And if cops cannot police themselves, then they have to be policed by third parties. (So to speak.)

Take away qualified immunity. Not turning on body cam means you lose your job and pension. If we don't have enough candidates with this kind of oversight, then shift tasks (spend funding on medical/social work crisis response teams and not military weapons for the police department; separate traffic enforcement from regular police force, etc). Offer different incentives.

I don't care how many nie guys you know as cops. This isn't working. American police cannot be trusted to police themselves. Other developed countries don't have this problem. Whatever they are doing needs to be started here, because we are failing. We are killing our own citizens.

That's really not true. The police chief immediately fired all five of these guys and the state brought charges against them. The system is working as it should.

Other developed countries don't have this problem because they have a much higher police-to-citizen ratio and they don't have the most heavily armed civilian population in the world.

Take away cops (which is de facto happening now as police forces shrink) and you replace it with vigilante justice. Because America's underlying violence problem isn't just police. It's all of us.

This!

Taking away qualified immunity is not something that will help. At all.
Qualified immunity does NOT protect LE when they break the law.... like they did here.

These 5 officers not only brought shame to themselves - they have also put another black eye on LE everywhere.

The actions these officers took are not representative of 95%+ of officers we have. LE have thousands of encounters with the public every day that end as routine encounters.
Please don't allow yourself to believe that this horrific incident is representative of most LE.

Why is it that the systems you praise only "works" if there is some kind of video of it? Are all cops stupid enough to only commit acts like this in the vicinity of a pole camera that captures it on video? That would be pretty dumb. They certainly aren't turning in each other when there isn't video, though.

Maybe it's the cameras that work, not the self-policing.

Why is it that you won't acknowledge the thousands of police encounters that end routinely? Why can you not admit that the majority of the thousands of police officers that protect the public every day would never resort to this?

Oh, I'll absolutely acknowledge that, all of it. And I still hold that what we have set up as a system is not good enough, because it is not working, and it's ONLY when there is video that this is coming to light, because it's the cameras that work -- not the self-policing.

Will you join me and acknowledge that?

Different poster, but it's not "only" working when it comes to light. Most complaints against cops are filed by other cops. You just don't hear about it because it's handled by the department as would any other employment related complaint. Police get fired for misconduct and you never hear about it.

Video, on the other hand, makes cheap easy news for our media. Don't take it as representing the entire universe of police conduct or misconduct. Because it's not.

I'm talking about beatdowns like this. Extreme violence, not questionably maybe a little too much stuff.

Do you really think incidents like this, Rodney King, George Floyd. etc., ONLY happen to occur when there is video of it? Shouldn't there be at least a couple such hyperviolent episode that was solely addressed because of colleague report and no video evidence?

Or is there an account of this? I am assuming that if a police officer was found to have killed an innocent person in a violent way, there would be at least one newspaper article in the local paper about it. What am I missing here? (I really, honestly hope you are going to post links to a couple of stories online, because I would actually like to be wrong about this.)

IU am not the pp, but will provide at least one incident that doesn't appear to be on video....

https://www.thestate.com/news/local/crime/article270987052.html

I know there are more, but I am not going to search for them. I would also point out that many, if not most, encounters with police today are captured on camera - either because of body cams or because of cameras everywhere on the streets. Just do a search for "police fired for excessive force" and you will see that it happens.....and video isn't always available.

I will also point out that any occupation has bad apples - health care, teaching, lawyers, etc. You just hear about the police officers more because of viral videos.

Right, that guy did not end up needing medical intervention. He was medically cleared and put in detention.

I am talking about true violence -- beatdowns, the stuff that goes well beyond the pale. Not a guy that ends up being cleared by doctors as perfectly stable to be left alone in a cell.

Despite what you believe, these kinds of incidents happen rarely in today's word, thankfully. This is because police DO police themselves. They get rid of officers who demonstrate excessive force BEFORE they can cause harm or death to others. And, when they do, they are generally captured on video because more and more police depts. use body cams and because of video cameras everywhere today. When someone dies at the hands of police, it is always in the news. And, it is not always the fault of the police officer.

You try to find a story of someone who died at the hand of police in the last 5-10 years that was NOT captured on video. It is a rare occurrence.

During the 2019 arrest of Elijah McClain, a Black man who died after officers confronted him in suburban Denver, the body cameras of all three officers came off during a struggle. The cameras continued to record audio but there was no video footage to verify a police claim that McClain reached for one of the officers' guns. He was placed in a chokehold and paramedics injected him with the powerful sedative ketamine. He later died at a hospital.

There are so many examples that I really can’t believe that you actually thought you made a valid point. You’re just making up your own narrative without any critical thinking.

And, once again.... these types of incidents are extremely rare.
They are always reported. The vast majority of them are on video. And, not all of them are the fault of the police officers.
Nothing I have said is untrue or a made up narrative.

They are not that rare. 1 out of 100 is not rare by any bodies measurement.

Where in the hell are you getting your stats? 1 in 100 of WHAT? Citation needed.

DP here.
I’ll go out on a limb here and guess this may be in reference to a post of mine before, in which I wrote over 99% of police interactions contain no use of force (an FBI number). I did explain that “use of force” can simply mean an arrest or pointing a taser (without using it).

Yes, but for 2021, over half of the "use of force" instances caused serious bodily harm, so keep that in mind.

In 2021, 50.7% of use-of-force incidents submitted to the FBI resulted in serious bodily injury of a person, 33.2% caused the death of a person, and 17% involved the discharge of a firearm at or in the direction of a person.
https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-2021-and-first-quarter-2022-statistics-from-the-national-use-of-force-data-collection

Sorry, but this is a bad read of the data. Read what incidents qualified for submission to the FBI. It is only those that caused serious bodily injury or involved the discharge of a firearm. (""Agencies submitted data concerning qualifying uses of force that included any action that resulted in the death or serious bodily injury2 of a person, or the discharge of a firearm at or in the direction of a person.")

The two are you are mixing definitions.

Are you stating that one of those was NOT referencing the National Use-of-Force Data Collection managed by the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting Program?

Just trying to be clear on what you are claiming.

One definition included mere arrest or pointing a taser as "use of force."
The FBI definition/data only includes instances of bodily harm and discharge of firearm as "use of force"

I'm sorry, I'll try to ask again: are you claiming that they were both referencing the same database (NUFDC) but looking at different subsets of data from the -same- database, or are you claiming that they were looking at different databases?

I can't immediately find the post with the first source, but I was trying to clarify that:

1. One poster said that only 1 in 100 police interactions involved "use of force". The definition of UAF, as provided by the poster most recently, was any interaction that involved an arrest or pointing a taser.
2. A second poster said that more than 50% of UAF resulted in serious bodily injury. The definition of UAF, as explained in the linked FBI source, was any instance of bodily injury or discharge of a weapon.

I thought it important to clarify the definitional difference to avoid anyone drawing the conclusion that 50% of police interactions that involved an arrest or pointing a taser resulted in bodily injury.

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Anonymous wrote:It’s on Vimeo. The cops came in hot. Not sure if he didn’t pull over immediately but they were clearly angry and dragged him from the car. He was calm and trying to talk to them. He got scared and ran. They got angry that they had to chase him. Looks like one cop maybe got sprayed in his eye.

They find him and kick him in the head multiple times. They hold him while others near him.

How can anyone feel safe around police no matter your color or their color? These men beat him to death.

I’m so heartbroken for his family. I can’t imagine dying like that. Feeling so helpless and terrified.

So sickening.

Being enraged to riot is understandable but it’s not the cops who will suffer.

I know the job messes with your head.

I wish we weren’t such a violent country/culture.

What a $hitty world we’ve created for our children.

There's something really wrong with many, many, many men. They have these fragile little egos and when something doesn't go their way, they react to an insane level. Is it right to run from a cop? No, but it should never be a death sentence or result in straight up violence.

I generally advocate for doing what cops say and dealing with any wring doing in court. But after watching the video, how hot they came in, dragging him from the car, screaming and oepoer spraying him while he tried to de-escalate...at a certain point, if I think my life is in danger, I'm going to try to get away. I can't really blame him for that. Maybe they killed him because he ran, but Tyre ran because he thought they were going to kill him. And they did.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

Great strategy! Fight the police because they will kill you if you don't. ha

I mean he could have laid there and let them suffocate him against the ground or beat him to death on the spot. I’d at least give myself the chance to live by running. He’s seen all the same videos and court cases of these scenarios to know, he’s likely going to die. I mean hell at this point being in your home and eating ice cream or sleeping can get you killed by cops with zero liability from the cops. Reckless driving/DUI does not justify beating a person to death, but I guess if you are black that’s the reason it is. He pulled over and stopped for Christ sake.

+1. Tyre Nichols did not die because he failed to follow directions. He died because these pigs wanted to kill him. That’s it.

Cops murder people all the time who comply with their directions.

You think this never happens? A cop in Florida shot a Black behavioral therapist who was complying when the autistic boy who was supposed to comply wasn’t. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna745716

Nobody said that. It rarely happens. Do you realize that you aren't privy to what over a million police officers do on a daily basis? You only know what pops up on your phone, and that's a big difference.

DP. You think the fact that not every cop brutalizes people excuses the ones who do? WTF is wrong with you?

DP. Nowhere in the PP’s post did they say that the officers should be excused for their behavior. Nothing is wrong with that PP. They simply posted that incidents are actually rare, despite what social media shows. Statistics prove this. Over 99% of police interactions (per FBI statistics) involve no use of force. That doesn’t mean there aren’t horrific uses of force, but it does demonstrate that this is rare. Of the uses of force that do occur, most are deemed justified. (Keep in mind that merely putting on handcuffs can be a use of force.)

I’m sure the PP would appreciate if you don’t jump to conclusions.

I would suggest you go back and reread the exchange, because pp absolutely was trying to deflect from the brutality of Nichols’ murder by citing to the fact that not all cops do this.

Are you suggesting that all cops do this? Really?
The PP said nothing wrong.

One bad apple spoils the bunch, and there is a lot more than one bad apple in the police forces in the United States.

This is a stupid view. There are bad apples in every single profession. Should we just get rid of everything?

DP

Agree - we should not throw the baby out with the dirty bath water. We need to invest much more in police training … they have a difficult and risky but important job.

Do you know what happens if you as a cop intervene and stop your fellow officers once they start abusing a person? The officer just put a target on his back. He’s now an officer who can’t be trusted. At any time he can be hung out to dry, left on an island when he’s supposed to have backup.

When you’re an officer, you’re a member of the gang. What happens when a gang member turns on his gang? Exactly.

And if cops cannot police themselves, then they have to be policed by third parties. (So to speak.)

Take away qualified immunity. Not turning on body cam means you lose your job and pension. If we don't have enough candidates with this kind of oversight, then shift tasks (spend funding on medical/social work crisis response teams and not military weapons for the police department; separate traffic enforcement from regular police force, etc). Offer different incentives.

I don't care how many nie guys you know as cops. This isn't working. American police cannot be trusted to police themselves. Other developed countries don't have this problem. Whatever they are doing needs to be started here, because we are failing. We are killing our own citizens.

That's really not true. The police chief immediately fired all five of these guys and the state brought charges against them. The system is working as it should.

Other developed countries don't have this problem because they have a much higher police-to-citizen ratio and they don't have the most heavily armed civilian population in the world.

Take away cops (which is de facto happening now as police forces shrink) and you replace it with vigilante justice. Because America's underlying violence problem isn't just police. It's all of us.

This!

Taking away qualified immunity is not something that will help. At all.
Qualified immunity does NOT protect LE when they break the law.... like they did here.

These 5 officers not only brought shame to themselves - they have also put another black eye on LE everywhere.

The actions these officers took are not representative of 95%+ of officers we have. LE have thousands of encounters with the public every day that end as routine encounters.
Please don't allow yourself to believe that this horrific incident is representative of most LE.

Why is it that the systems you praise only "works" if there is some kind of video of it? Are all cops stupid enough to only commit acts like this in the vicinity of a pole camera that captures it on video? That would be pretty dumb. They certainly aren't turning in each other when there isn't video, though.

Maybe it's the cameras that work, not the self-policing.

Why is it that you won't acknowledge the thousands of police encounters that end routinely? Why can you not admit that the majority of the thousands of police officers that protect the public every day would never resort to this?

Oh, I'll absolutely acknowledge that, all of it. And I still hold that what we have set up as a system is not good enough, because it is not working, and it's ONLY when there is video that this is coming to light, because it's the cameras that work -- not the self-policing.

Will you join me and acknowledge that?

Different poster, but it's not "only" working when it comes to light. Most complaints against cops are filed by other cops. You just don't hear about it because it's handled by the department as would any other employment related complaint. Police get fired for misconduct and you never hear about it.

Video, on the other hand, makes cheap easy news for our media. Don't take it as representing the entire universe of police conduct or misconduct. Because it's not.

I'm talking about beatdowns like this. Extreme violence, not questionably maybe a little too much stuff.

Do you really think incidents like this, Rodney King, George Floyd. etc., ONLY happen to occur when there is video of it? Shouldn't there be at least a couple such hyperviolent episode that was solely addressed because of colleague report and no video evidence?

Or is there an account of this? I am assuming that if a police officer was found to have killed an innocent person in a violent way, there would be at least one newspaper article in the local paper about it. What am I missing here? (I really, honestly hope you are going to post links to a couple of stories online, because I would actually like to be wrong about this.)

IU am not the pp, but will provide at least one incident that doesn't appear to be on video....

https://www.thestate.com/news/local/crime/article270987052.html

I know there are more, but I am not going to search for them. I would also point out that many, if not most, encounters with police today are captured on camera - either because of body cams or because of cameras everywhere on the streets. Just do a search for "police fired for excessive force" and you will see that it happens.....and video isn't always available.

I will also point out that any occupation has bad apples - health care, teaching, lawyers, etc. You just hear about the police officers more because of viral videos.

Right, that guy did not end up needing medical intervention. He was medically cleared and put in detention.

I am talking about true violence -- beatdowns, the stuff that goes well beyond the pale. Not a guy that ends up being cleared by doctors as perfectly stable to be left alone in a cell.

Despite what you believe, these kinds of incidents happen rarely in today's word, thankfully. This is because police DO police themselves. They get rid of officers who demonstrate excessive force BEFORE they can cause harm or death to others. And, when they do, they are generally captured on video because more and more police depts. use body cams and because of video cameras everywhere today. When someone dies at the hands of police, it is always in the news. And, it is not always the fault of the police officer.

You try to find a story of someone who died at the hand of police in the last 5-10 years that was NOT captured on video. It is a rare occurrence.

This would be impossible, because there is no proof. Bodycams are very new to most police forces and many police "forget" to turn them on when making a stop.

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Anonymous wrote:
Since there are other PPs here, can you please weigh in on the other professions' self-regulation you are bring up. Doctors, for example, have licenses that are tracked from state to state with double-checks to ensure you can't just move to practice in a new area. If you try to get licensed in a new state, everything, even just patient complaints that were deemed without merit, follows you.

Are you all in support of a law enforcement licensure that is tracked across your entire career, which is used to evaluate fitness for duty of all LEOs before being hired somewhere new?

Bringing this back up, as it got lost a few pages back. I don't believe I've seen an answer yet.

It would not solve all of the problems but it would weed out several bad apples.

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This is video of Tyre Nichols skateboarding, as released by his family: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_hZGVI2U-4

None of the traffic cameras showed him swerving or driving aggressively. He was coming back home to his mom's house after taking pictures of the sunset. He liked Starbucks.

Two cops held his arms back while their colleagues were punching him in the face, yelling "show me your hands! show me your hands!" and "stop resisting!" ... captured for the audio, but only before someone noticed the overhead camera.

I don't want this to get lost. He was some 80 yards from his mother's house, crying out for her. There is no evidence for any reason to pull him over.

This latter assertion is a red herring. The standard for a lawful police stop is mere “reasonable suspicion,” a preposterously low bar that permits even pretextual stops in many instances. Further, fleeing and eluding the police is itself a “high and aggravated misdemeanor” in Georgia.

Whatever the merits of the charges in this case, the authorities do nothing but weaken their position by grabbing at straws for something else like this to add.

You disagree with the chief of police for this city, then? That's an authority whose assessment you do not accept?

Memphis police chief says officers had 'no proof' to pull Tyre Nichols over
https://www.businessinsider.com/tyre-nichols-traiffic-stop-no-proof-memphis-police-chief-says-2023-1

It is absolutely clear that the police administration has crossed the line from impartiality to advocacy. They, the department and the City have significant exposure in this case. The mere alleged absence of evidence for w lawful stop at this point, when the full investigation is in its early stages, does not mean there is no evidence or that the stop was not lawful. The insistence that the accused produce evidence of a lawful stop turns the burden of proof on its head. If part of the alleged offenses of the accused is that the stop was not lawful it is for the authorities to prove that, not for the accused to disprove it in the first instance.

More fantasies from the mind of a self educated MAGA.

Burden of proof “turned on its head”? Nice try but the burden of proof on a police stop is reasonable suspicion. That means the cop has a requirement to articulate the specific reason that they have to suspect a person of being involved in criminal activity. If the cop can’t do that then they are guilty of a crime. The police chief has no obligation to be “impartial” they are officers of the law not judges.

Anonymous wrote:
Since there are other PPs here, can you please weigh in on the other professions' self-regulation you are bring up. Doctors, for example, have licenses that are tracked from state to state with double-checks to ensure you can't just move to practice in a new area. If you try to get licensed in a new state, everything, even just patient complaints that were deemed without merit, follows you.

Are you all in support of a law enforcement licensure that is tracked across your entire career, which is used to evaluate fitness for duty of all LEOs before being hired somewhere new?

Bringing this back up, as it got lost a few pages back. I don't believe I've seen an answer yet.

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Anonymous wrote:It’s on Vimeo. The cops came in hot. Not sure if he didn’t pull over immediately but they were clearly angry and dragged him from the car. He was calm and trying to talk to them. He got scared and ran. They got angry that they had to chase him. Looks like one cop maybe got sprayed in his eye.

They find him and kick him in the head multiple times. They hold him while others near him.

How can anyone feel safe around police no matter your color or their color? These men beat him to death.

I’m so heartbroken for his family. I can’t imagine dying like that. Feeling so helpless and terrified.

So sickening.

Being enraged to riot is understandable but it’s not the cops who will suffer.

I know the job messes with your head.

I wish we weren’t such a violent country/culture.

What a $hitty world we’ve created for our children.

There's something really wrong with many, many, many men. They have these fragile little egos and when something doesn't go their way, they react to an insane level. Is it right to run from a cop? No, but it should never be a death sentence or result in straight up violence.

I generally advocate for doing what cops say and dealing with any wring doing in court. But after watching the video, how hot they came in, dragging him from the car, screaming and oepoer spraying him while he tried to de-escalate...at a certain point, if I think my life is in danger, I'm going to try to get away. I can't really blame him for that. Maybe they killed him because he ran, but Tyre ran because he thought they were going to kill him. And they did.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

Great strategy! Fight the police because they will kill you if you don't. ha

I mean he could have laid there and let them suffocate him against the ground or beat him to death on the spot. I’d at least give myself the chance to live by running. He’s seen all the same videos and court cases of these scenarios to know, he’s likely going to die. I mean hell at this point being in your home and eating ice cream or sleeping can get you killed by cops with zero liability from the cops. Reckless driving/DUI does not justify beating a person to death, but I guess if you are black that’s the reason it is. He pulled over and stopped for Christ sake.

+1. Tyre Nichols did not die because he failed to follow directions. He died because these pigs wanted to kill him. That’s it.

Cops murder people all the time who comply with their directions.

You think this never happens? A cop in Florida shot a Black behavioral therapist who was complying when the autistic boy who was supposed to comply wasn’t. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna745716

Nobody said that. It rarely happens. Do you realize that you aren't privy to what over a million police officers do on a daily basis? You only know what pops up on your phone, and that's a big difference.

DP. You think the fact that not every cop brutalizes people excuses the ones who do? WTF is wrong with you?

DP. Nowhere in the PP’s post did they say that the officers should be excused for their behavior. Nothing is wrong with that PP. They simply posted that incidents are actually rare, despite what social media shows. Statistics prove this. Over 99% of police interactions (per FBI statistics) involve no use of force. That doesn’t mean there aren’t horrific uses of force, but it does demonstrate that this is rare. Of the uses of force that do occur, most are deemed justified. (Keep in mind that merely putting on handcuffs can be a use of force.)

I’m sure the PP would appreciate if you don’t jump to conclusions.

I would suggest you go back and reread the exchange, because pp absolutely was trying to deflect from the brutality of Nichols’ murder by citing to the fact that not all cops do this.

Are you suggesting that all cops do this? Really?
The PP said nothing wrong.

One bad apple spoils the bunch, and there is a lot more than one bad apple in the police forces in the United States.

This is a stupid view. There are bad apples in every single profession. Should we just get rid of everything?

DP

Agree - we should not throw the baby out with the dirty bath water. We need to invest much more in police training … they have a difficult and risky but important job.

Do you know what happens if you as a cop intervene and stop your fellow officers once they start abusing a person? The officer just put a target on his back. He’s now an officer who can’t be trusted. At any time he can be hung out to dry, left on an island when he’s supposed to have backup.

When you’re an officer, you’re a member of the gang. What happens when a gang member turns on his gang? Exactly.

And if cops cannot police themselves, then they have to be policed by third parties. (So to speak.)

Take away qualified immunity. Not turning on body cam means you lose your job and pension. If we don't have enough candidates with this kind of oversight, then shift tasks (spend funding on medical/social work crisis response teams and not military weapons for the police department; separate traffic enforcement from regular police force, etc). Offer different incentives.

I don't care how many nie guys you know as cops. This isn't working. American police cannot be trusted to police themselves. Other developed countries don't have this problem. Whatever they are doing needs to be started here, because we are failing. We are killing our own citizens.

That's really not true. The police chief immediately fired all five of these guys and the state brought charges against them. The system is working as it should.

Other developed countries don't have this problem because they have a much higher police-to-citizen ratio and they don't have the most heavily armed civilian population in the world.

Take away cops (which is de facto happening now as police forces shrink) and you replace it with vigilante justice. Because America's underlying violence problem isn't just police. It's all of us.

This!

Taking away qualified immunity is not something that will help. At all.
Qualified immunity does NOT protect LE when they break the law.... like they did here.

These 5 officers not only brought shame to themselves - they have also put another black eye on LE everywhere.

The actions these officers took are not representative of 95%+ of officers we have. LE have thousands of encounters with the public every day that end as routine encounters.
Please don't allow yourself to believe that this horrific incident is representative of most LE.

Why is it that the systems you praise only "works" if there is some kind of video of it? Are all cops stupid enough to only commit acts like this in the vicinity of a pole camera that captures it on video? That would be pretty dumb. They certainly aren't turning in each other when there isn't video, though.

Maybe it's the cameras that work, not the self-policing.

Why is it that you won't acknowledge the thousands of police encounters that end routinely? Why can you not admit that the majority of the thousands of police officers that protect the public every day would never resort to this?

Oh, I'll absolutely acknowledge that, all of it. And I still hold that what we have set up as a system is not good enough, because it is not working, and it's ONLY when there is video that this is coming to light, because it's the cameras that work -- not the self-policing.

Will you join me and acknowledge that?

Different poster, but it's not "only" working when it comes to light. Most complaints against cops are filed by other cops. You just don't hear about it because it's handled by the department as would any other employment related complaint. Police get fired for misconduct and you never hear about it.

Video, on the other hand, makes cheap easy news for our media. Don't take it as representing the entire universe of police conduct or misconduct. Because it's not.

I'm talking about beatdowns like this. Extreme violence, not questionably maybe a little too much stuff.

Do you really think incidents like this, Rodney King, George Floyd. etc., ONLY happen to occur when there is video of it? Shouldn't there be at least a couple such hyperviolent episode that was solely addressed because of colleague report and no video evidence?

Or is there an account of this? I am assuming that if a police officer was found to have killed an innocent person in a violent way, there would be at least one newspaper article in the local paper about it. What am I missing here? (I really, honestly hope you are going to post links to a couple of stories online, because I would actually like to be wrong about this.)

IU am not the pp, but will provide at least one incident that doesn't appear to be on video....

https://www.thestate.com/news/local/crime/article270987052.html

I know there are more, but I am not going to search for them. I would also point out that many, if not most, encounters with police today are captured on camera - either because of body cams or because of cameras everywhere on the streets. Just do a search for "police fired for excessive force" and you will see that it happens.....and video isn't always available.

I will also point out that any occupation has bad apples - health care, teaching, lawyers, etc. You just hear about the police officers more because of viral videos.

Right, that guy did not end up needing medical intervention. He was medically cleared and put in detention.

I am talking about true violence -- beatdowns, the stuff that goes well beyond the pale. Not a guy that ends up being cleared by doctors as perfectly stable to be left alone in a cell.

Despite what you believe, these kinds of incidents happen rarely in today's word, thankfully. This is because police DO police themselves. They get rid of officers who demonstrate excessive force BEFORE they can cause harm or death to others. And, when they do, they are generally captured on video because more and more police depts. use body cams and because of video cameras everywhere today. When someone dies at the hands of police, it is always in the news. And, it is not always the fault of the police officer.

You try to find a story of someone who died at the hand of police in the last 5-10 years that was NOT captured on video. It is a rare occurrence.

During the 2019 arrest of Elijah McClain, a Black man who died after officers confronted him in suburban Denver, the body cameras of all three officers came off during a struggle. The cameras continued to record audio but there was no video footage to verify a police claim that McClain reached for one of the officers' guns. He was placed in a chokehold and paramedics injected him with the powerful sedative ketamine. He later died at a hospital.

There are so many examples that I really can’t believe that you actually thought you made a valid point. You’re just making up your own narrative without any critical thinking.

And, once again.... these types of incidents are extremely rare.
They are always reported. The vast majority of them are on video. And, not all of them are the fault of the police officers.
Nothing I have said is untrue or a made up narrative.

They are not that rare. 1 out of 100 is not rare by any bodies measurement.

Where in the hell are you getting your stats? 1 in 100 of WHAT? Citation needed.

DP here.
I’ll go out on a limb here and guess this may be in reference to a post of mine before, in which I wrote over 99% of police interactions contain no use of force (an FBI number). I did explain that “use of force” can simply mean an arrest or pointing a taser (without using it).

Yes, but for 2021, over half of the "use of force" instances caused serious bodily harm, so keep that in mind.

In 2021, 50.7% of use-of-force incidents submitted to the FBI resulted in serious bodily injury of a person, 33.2% caused the death of a person, and 17% involved the discharge of a firearm at or in the direction of a person.
https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-2021-and-first-quarter-2022-statistics-from-the-national-use-of-force-data-collection

Sorry, but this is a bad read of the data. Read what incidents qualified for submission to the FBI. It is only those that caused serious bodily injury or involved the discharge of a firearm. (""Agencies submitted data concerning qualifying uses of force that included any action that resulted in the death or serious bodily injury2 of a person, or the discharge of a firearm at or in the direction of a person.")

The two are you are mixing definitions.

Are you stating that one of those was NOT referencing the National Use-of-Force Data Collection managed by the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting Program?

Just trying to be clear on what you are claiming.

One definition included mere arrest or pointing a taser as "use of force."
The FBI definition/data only includes instances of bodily harm and discharge of firearm as "use of force"

I'm sorry, I'll try to ask again: are you claiming that they were both referencing the same database (NUFDC) but looking at different subsets of data from the -same- database, or are you claiming that they were looking at different databases?

I can’t believe a man was brutally beaten to death (not watching, thanks. In the literal sense, watching violence triggers my PTSD and I don’t need that) and we still have empty brained people caping for the police.

The bad apples have spoiled the bunch. Every single officer, good or bad, carries the taint of every bit of police violence. That’s how “a bad apple spoils the bunch” works.

In functionally giving immunity to police for crimes they commit, and I’m counting the raging domestic violence rates among police officers too, you have given the appearance that cops are above the law. Surprise! Your police force is now far more attractive to sociopaths who enjoy committing crimes.

In the wake of George Floyd’s murder, did police officers and forces reflect on what had happened and what that meant? No, they doubled the eff down and now many of them are lazier and worse than ever.

I realize this is off topic and not the political forum, but acknowledge reality. People refused to acknowledge the reality of how gutter the GOP has become and where are we now? George Santos, clown show politics, Russia is apparently running the GOP even more, Q, Trump…

The police suck. They need to be reformed. They need outside oversight. If “the law” is such a passion for them, they shouldn’t mind this. If mindless violence and power over fellow citizens is what they like, then obviously they’ll chafe.

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Anonymous wrote:It’s on Vimeo. The cops came in hot. Not sure if he didn’t pull over immediately but they were clearly angry and dragged him from the car. He was calm and trying to talk to them. He got scared and ran. They got angry that they had to chase him. Looks like one cop maybe got sprayed in his eye.

They find him and kick him in the head multiple times. They hold him while others near him.

How can anyone feel safe around police no matter your color or their color? These men beat him to death.

I’m so heartbroken for his family. I can’t imagine dying like that. Feeling so helpless and terrified.

So sickening.

Being enraged to riot is understandable but it’s not the cops who will suffer.

I know the job messes with your head.

I wish we weren’t such a violent country/culture.

What a $hitty world we’ve created for our children.

There's something really wrong with many, many, many men. They have these fragile little egos and when something doesn't go their way, they react to an insane level. Is it right to run from a cop? No, but it should never be a death sentence or result in straight up violence.

I generally advocate for doing what cops say and dealing with any wring doing in court. But after watching the video, how hot they came in, dragging him from the car, screaming and oepoer spraying him while he tried to de-escalate...at a certain point, if I think my life is in danger, I'm going to try to get away. I can't really blame him for that. Maybe they killed him because he ran, but Tyre ran because he thought they were going to kill him. And they did.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

Great strategy! Fight the police because they will kill you if you don't. ha

I mean he could have laid there and let them suffocate him against the ground or beat him to death on the spot. I’d at least give myself the chance to live by running. He’s seen all the same videos and court cases of these scenarios to know, he’s likely going to die. I mean hell at this point being in your home and eating ice cream or sleeping can get you killed by cops with zero liability from the cops. Reckless driving/DUI does not justify beating a person to death, but I guess if you are black that’s the reason it is. He pulled over and stopped for Christ sake.

+1. Tyre Nichols did not die because he failed to follow directions. He died because these pigs wanted to kill him. That’s it.

Cops murder people all the time who comply with their directions.

You think this never happens? A cop in Florida shot a Black behavioral therapist who was complying when the autistic boy who was supposed to comply wasn’t. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna745716

Nobody said that. It rarely happens. Do you realize that you aren't privy to what over a million police officers do on a daily basis? You only know what pops up on your phone, and that's a big difference.

DP. You think the fact that not every cop brutalizes people excuses the ones who do? WTF is wrong with you?

DP. Nowhere in the PP’s post did they say that the officers should be excused for their behavior. Nothing is wrong with that PP. They simply posted that incidents are actually rare, despite what social media shows. Statistics prove this. Over 99% of police interactions (per FBI statistics) involve no use of force. That doesn’t mean there aren’t horrific uses of force, but it does demonstrate that this is rare. Of the uses of force that do occur, most are deemed justified. (Keep in mind that merely putting on handcuffs can be a use of force.)

I’m sure the PP would appreciate if you don’t jump to conclusions.

I would suggest you go back and reread the exchange, because pp absolutely was trying to deflect from the brutality of Nichols’ murder by citing to the fact that not all cops do this.

Are you suggesting that all cops do this? Really?
The PP said nothing wrong.

One bad apple spoils the bunch, and there is a lot more than one bad apple in the police forces in the United States.

This is a stupid view. There are bad apples in every single profession. Should we just get rid of everything?

DP

Agree - we should not throw the baby out with the dirty bath water. We need to invest much more in police training … they have a difficult and risky but important job.

Do you know what happens if you as a cop intervene and stop your fellow officers once they start abusing a person? The officer just put a target on his back. He’s now an officer who can’t be trusted. At any time he can be hung out to dry, left on an island when he’s supposed to have backup.

When you’re an officer, you’re a member of the gang. What happens when a gang member turns on his gang? Exactly.

And if cops cannot police themselves, then they have to be policed by third parties. (So to speak.)

Take away qualified immunity. Not turning on body cam means you lose your job and pension. If we don't have enough candidates with this kind of oversight, then shift tasks (spend funding on medical/social work crisis response teams and not military weapons for the police department; separate traffic enforcement from regular police force, etc). Offer different incentives.

I don't care how many nie guys you know as cops. This isn't working. American police cannot be trusted to police themselves. Other developed countries don't have this problem. Whatever they are doing needs to be started here, because we are failing. We are killing our own citizens.

That's really not true. The police chief immediately fired all five of these guys and the state brought charges against them. The system is working as it should.

Other developed countries don't have this problem because they have a much higher police-to-citizen ratio and they don't have the most heavily armed civilian population in the world.

Take away cops (which is de facto happening now as police forces shrink) and you replace it with vigilante justice. Because America's underlying violence problem isn't just police. It's all of us.

This!

Taking away qualified immunity is not something that will help. At all.
Qualified immunity does NOT protect LE when they break the law.... like they did here.

These 5 officers not only brought shame to themselves - they have also put another black eye on LE everywhere.

The actions these officers took are not representative of 95%+ of officers we have. LE have thousands of encounters with the public every day that end as routine encounters.
Please don't allow yourself to believe that this horrific incident is representative of most LE.

Why is it that the systems you praise only "works" if there is some kind of video of it? Are all cops stupid enough to only commit acts like this in the vicinity of a pole camera that captures it on video? That would be pretty dumb. They certainly aren't turning in each other when there isn't video, though.

Maybe it's the cameras that work, not the self-policing.

Why is it that you won't acknowledge the thousands of police encounters that end routinely? Why can you not admit that the majority of the thousands of police officers that protect the public every day would never resort to this?

Oh, I'll absolutely acknowledge that, all of it. And I still hold that what we have set up as a system is not good enough, because it is not working, and it's ONLY when there is video that this is coming to light, because it's the cameras that work -- not the self-policing.

Will you join me and acknowledge that?

Different poster, but it's not "only" working when it comes to light. Most complaints against cops are filed by other cops. You just don't hear about it because it's handled by the department as would any other employment related complaint. Police get fired for misconduct and you never hear about it.

Video, on the other hand, makes cheap easy news for our media. Don't take it as representing the entire universe of police conduct or misconduct. Because it's not.

I'm talking about beatdowns like this. Extreme violence, not questionably maybe a little too much stuff.

Do you really think incidents like this, Rodney King, George Floyd. etc., ONLY happen to occur when there is video of it? Shouldn't there be at least a couple such hyperviolent episode that was solely addressed because of colleague report and no video evidence?

Or is there an account of this? I am assuming that if a police officer was found to have killed an innocent person in a violent way, there would be at least one newspaper article in the local paper about it. What am I missing here? (I really, honestly hope you are going to post links to a couple of stories online, because I would actually like to be wrong about this.)

IU am not the pp, but will provide at least one incident that doesn't appear to be on video....

https://www.thestate.com/news/local/crime/article270987052.html

I know there are more, but I am not going to search for them. I would also point out that many, if not most, encounters with police today are captured on camera - either because of body cams or because of cameras everywhere on the streets. Just do a search for "police fired for excessive force" and you will see that it happens.....and video isn't always available.

I will also point out that any occupation has bad apples - health care, teaching, lawyers, etc. You just hear about the police officers more because of viral videos.

Right, that guy did not end up needing medical intervention. He was medically cleared and put in detention.

I am talking about true violence -- beatdowns, the stuff that goes well beyond the pale. Not a guy that ends up being cleared by doctors as perfectly stable to be left alone in a cell.

Despite what you believe, these kinds of incidents happen rarely in today's word, thankfully. This is because police DO police themselves. They get rid of officers who demonstrate excessive force BEFORE they can cause harm or death to others. And, when they do, they are generally captured on video because more and more police depts. use body cams and because of video cameras everywhere today. When someone dies at the hands of police, it is always in the news. And, it is not always the fault of the police officer.

You try to find a story of someone who died at the hand of police in the last 5-10 years that was NOT captured on video. It is a rare occurrence.

During the 2019 arrest of Elijah McClain, a Black man who died after officers confronted him in suburban Denver, the body cameras of all three officers came off during a struggle. The cameras continued to record audio but there was no video footage to verify a police claim that McClain reached for one of the officers' guns. He was placed in a chokehold and paramedics injected him with the powerful sedative ketamine. He later died at a hospital.

There are so many examples that I really can’t believe that you actually thought you made a valid point. You’re just making up your own narrative without any critical thinking.

And, once again.... these types of incidents are extremely rare.
They are always reported. The vast majority of them are on video. And, not all of them are the fault of the police officers.
Nothing I have said is untrue or a made up narrative.

They are not that rare. 1 out of 100 is not rare by any bodies measurement.

Where in the hell are you getting your stats? 1 in 100 of WHAT? Citation needed.

DP here.
I’ll go out on a limb here and guess this may be in reference to a post of mine before, in which I wrote over 99% of police interactions contain no use of force (an FBI number). I did explain that “use of force” can simply mean an arrest or pointing a taser (without using it).

Yes, but for 2021, over half of the "use of force" instances caused serious bodily harm, so keep that in mind.

In 2021, 50.7% of use-of-force incidents submitted to the FBI resulted in serious bodily injury of a person, 33.2% caused the death of a person, and 17% involved the discharge of a firearm at or in the direction of a person.
https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-2021-and-first-quarter-2022-statistics-from-the-national-use-of-force-data-collection

Sorry, but this is a bad read of the data. Read what incidents qualified for submission to the FBI. It is only those that caused serious bodily injury or involved the discharge of a firearm. (""Agencies submitted data concerning qualifying uses of force that included any action that resulted in the death or serious bodily injury2 of a person, or the discharge of a firearm at or in the direction of a person.")

The two are you are mixing definitions.

Are you stating that one of those was NOT referencing the National Use-of-Force Data Collection managed by the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting Program?

Just trying to be clear on what you are claiming.

One definition included mere arrest or pointing a taser as "use of force."
The FBI definition/data only includes instances of bodily harm and discharge of firearm as "use of force"

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Anonymous wrote:It’s on Vimeo. The cops came in hot. Not sure if he didn’t pull over immediately but they were clearly angry and dragged him from the car. He was calm and trying to talk to them. He got scared and ran. They got angry that they had to chase him. Looks like one cop maybe got sprayed in his eye.

They find him and kick him in the head multiple times. They hold him while others near him.

How can anyone feel safe around police no matter your color or their color? These men beat him to death.

I’m so heartbroken for his family. I can’t imagine dying like that. Feeling so helpless and terrified.

So sickening.

Being enraged to riot is understandable but it’s not the cops who will suffer.

I know the job messes with your head.

I wish we weren’t such a violent country/culture.

What a $hitty world we’ve created for our children.

There's something really wrong with many, many, many men. They have these fragile little egos and when something doesn't go their way, they react to an insane level. Is it right to run from a cop? No, but it should never be a death sentence or result in straight up violence.

I generally advocate for doing what cops say and dealing with any wring doing in court. But after watching the video, how hot they came in, dragging him from the car, screaming and oepoer spraying him while he tried to de-escalate...at a certain point, if I think my life is in danger, I'm going to try to get away. I can't really blame him for that. Maybe they killed him because he ran, but Tyre ran because he thought they were going to kill him. And they did.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

Great strategy! Fight the police because they will kill you if you don't. ha

I mean he could have laid there and let them suffocate him against the ground or beat him to death on the spot. I’d at least give myself the chance to live by running. He’s seen all the same videos and court cases of these scenarios to know, he’s likely going to die. I mean hell at this point being in your home and eating ice cream or sleeping can get you killed by cops with zero liability from the cops. Reckless driving/DUI does not justify beating a person to death, but I guess if you are black that’s the reason it is. He pulled over and stopped for Christ sake.

+1. Tyre Nichols did not die because he failed to follow directions. He died because these pigs wanted to kill him. That’s it.

Cops murder people all the time who comply with their directions.

You think this never happens? A cop in Florida shot a Black behavioral therapist who was complying when the autistic boy who was supposed to comply wasn’t. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna745716

Nobody said that. It rarely happens. Do you realize that you aren't privy to what over a million police officers do on a daily basis? You only know what pops up on your phone, and that's a big difference.

DP. You think the fact that not every cop brutalizes people excuses the ones who do? WTF is wrong with you?

DP. Nowhere in the PP’s post did they say that the officers should be excused for their behavior. Nothing is wrong with that PP. They simply posted that incidents are actually rare, despite what social media shows. Statistics prove this. Over 99% of police interactions (per FBI statistics) involve no use of force. That doesn’t mean there aren’t horrific uses of force, but it does demonstrate that this is rare. Of the uses of force that do occur, most are deemed justified. (Keep in mind that merely putting on handcuffs can be a use of force.)

I’m sure the PP would appreciate if you don’t jump to conclusions.

I would suggest you go back and reread the exchange, because pp absolutely was trying to deflect from the brutality of Nichols’ murder by citing to the fact that not all cops do this.

Are you suggesting that all cops do this? Really?
The PP said nothing wrong.

One bad apple spoils the bunch, and there is a lot more than one bad apple in the police forces in the United States.

This is a stupid view. There are bad apples in every single profession. Should we just get rid of everything?

DP

Agree - we should not throw the baby out with the dirty bath water. We need to invest much more in police training … they have a difficult and risky but important job.

Do you know what happens if you as a cop intervene and stop your fellow officers once they start abusing a person? The officer just put a target on his back. He’s now an officer who can’t be trusted. At any time he can be hung out to dry, left on an island when he’s supposed to have backup.

When you’re an officer, you’re a member of the gang. What happens when a gang member turns on his gang? Exactly.

And if cops cannot police themselves, then they have to be policed by third parties. (So to speak.)

Take away qualified immunity. Not turning on body cam means you lose your job and pension. If we don't have enough candidates with this kind of oversight, then shift tasks (spend funding on medical/social work crisis response teams and not military weapons for the police department; separate traffic enforcement from regular police force, etc). Offer different incentives.

I don't care how many nie guys you know as cops. This isn't working. American police cannot be trusted to police themselves. Other developed countries don't have this problem. Whatever they are doing needs to be started here, because we are failing. We are killing our own citizens.

That's really not true. The police chief immediately fired all five of these guys and the state brought charges against them. The system is working as it should.

Other developed countries don't have this problem because they have a much higher police-to-citizen ratio and they don't have the most heavily armed civilian population in the world.

Take away cops (which is de facto happening now as police forces shrink) and you replace it with vigilante justice. Because America's underlying violence problem isn't just police. It's all of us.

This!

Taking away qualified immunity is not something that will help. At all.
Qualified immunity does NOT protect LE when they break the law.... like they did here.

These 5 officers not only brought shame to themselves - they have also put another black eye on LE everywhere.

The actions these officers took are not representative of 95%+ of officers we have. LE have thousands of encounters with the public every day that end as routine encounters.
Please don't allow yourself to believe that this horrific incident is representative of most LE.

Why is it that the systems you praise only "works" if there is some kind of video of it? Are all cops stupid enough to only commit acts like this in the vicinity of a pole camera that captures it on video? That would be pretty dumb. They certainly aren't turning in each other when there isn't video, though.

Maybe it's the cameras that work, not the self-policing.

Why is it that you won't acknowledge the thousands of police encounters that end routinely? Why can you not admit that the majority of the thousands of police officers that protect the public every day would never resort to this?

Oh, I'll absolutely acknowledge that, all of it. And I still hold that what we have set up as a system is not good enough, because it is not working, and it's ONLY when there is video that this is coming to light, because it's the cameras that work -- not the self-policing.

Will you join me and acknowledge that?

Different poster, but it's not "only" working when it comes to light. Most complaints against cops are filed by other cops. You just don't hear about it because it's handled by the department as would any other employment related complaint. Police get fired for misconduct and you never hear about it.

Video, on the other hand, makes cheap easy news for our media. Don't take it as representing the entire universe of police conduct or misconduct. Because it's not.

I'm talking about beatdowns like this. Extreme violence, not questionably maybe a little too much stuff.

Do you really think incidents like this, Rodney King, George Floyd. etc., ONLY happen to occur when there is video of it? Shouldn't there be at least a couple such hyperviolent episode that was solely addressed because of colleague report and no video evidence?

Or is there an account of this? I am assuming that if a police officer was found to have killed an innocent person in a violent way, there would be at least one newspaper article in the local paper about it. What am I missing here? (I really, honestly hope you are going to post links to a couple of stories online, because I would actually like to be wrong about this.)

IU am not the pp, but will provide at least one incident that doesn't appear to be on video....

https://www.thestate.com/news/local/crime/article270987052.html

I know there are more, but I am not going to search for them. I would also point out that many, if not most, encounters with police today are captured on camera - either because of body cams or because of cameras everywhere on the streets. Just do a search for "police fired for excessive force" and you will see that it happens.....and video isn't always available.

I will also point out that any occupation has bad apples - health care, teaching, lawyers, etc. You just hear about the police officers more because of viral videos.

Right, that guy did not end up needing medical intervention. He was medically cleared and put in detention.

I am talking about true violence -- beatdowns, the stuff that goes well beyond the pale. Not a guy that ends up being cleared by doctors as perfectly stable to be left alone in a cell.

Despite what you believe, these kinds of incidents happen rarely in today's word, thankfully. This is because police DO police themselves. They get rid of officers who demonstrate excessive force BEFORE they can cause harm or death to others. And, when they do, they are generally captured on video because more and more police depts. use body cams and because of video cameras everywhere today. When someone dies at the hands of police, it is always in the news. And, it is not always the fault of the police officer.

You try to find a story of someone who died at the hand of police in the last 5-10 years that was NOT captured on video. It is a rare occurrence.

During the 2019 arrest of Elijah McClain, a Black man who died after officers confronted him in suburban Denver, the body cameras of all three officers came off during a struggle. The cameras continued to record audio but there was no video footage to verify a police claim that McClain reached for one of the officers' guns. He was placed in a chokehold and paramedics injected him with the powerful sedative ketamine. He later died at a hospital.

There are so many examples that I really can’t believe that you actually thought you made a valid point. You’re just making up your own narrative without any critical thinking.

And, once again.... these types of incidents are extremely rare.
They are always reported. The vast majority of them are on video. And, not all of them are the fault of the police officers.
Nothing I have said is untrue or a made up narrative.

They are not that rare. 1 out of 100 is not rare by any bodies measurement.

Where in the hell are you getting your stats? 1 in 100 of WHAT? Citation needed.

DP here.
I’ll go out on a limb here and guess this may be in reference to a post of mine before, in which I wrote over 99% of police interactions contain no use of force (an FBI number). I did explain that “use of force” can simply mean an arrest or pointing a taser (without using it).

Yes, but for 2021, over half of the "use of force" instances caused serious bodily harm, so keep that in mind.

In 2021, 50.7% of use-of-force incidents submitted to the FBI resulted in serious bodily injury of a person, 33.2% caused the death of a person, and 17% involved the discharge of a firearm at or in the direction of a person.
https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-2021-and-first-quarter-2022-statistics-from-the-national-use-of-force-data-collection

Sorry, but this is a bad read of the data. Read what incidents qualified for submission to the FBI. It is only those that caused serious bodily injury or involved the discharge of a firearm. (""Agencies submitted data concerning qualifying uses of force that included any action that resulted in the death or serious bodily injury2 of a person, or the discharge of a firearm at or in the direction of a person.")

The two are you are mixing definitions.

Are you stating that one of those was NOT referencing the National Use-of-Force Data Collection managed by the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting Program?

Just trying to be clear on what you are claiming.

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Anonymous wrote:It’s on Vimeo. The cops came in hot. Not sure if he didn’t pull over immediately but they were clearly angry and dragged him from the car. He was calm and trying to talk to them. He got scared and ran. They got angry that they had to chase him. Looks like one cop maybe got sprayed in his eye.

They find him and kick him in the head multiple times. They hold him while others near him.

How can anyone feel safe around police no matter your color or their color? These men beat him to death.

I’m so heartbroken for his family. I can’t imagine dying like that. Feeling so helpless and terrified.

So sickening.

Being enraged to riot is understandable but it’s not the cops who will suffer.

I know the job messes with your head.

I wish we weren’t such a violent country/culture.

What a $hitty world we’ve created for our children.

There's something really wrong with many, many, many men. They have these fragile little egos and when something doesn't go their way, they react to an insane level. Is it right to run from a cop? No, but it should never be a death sentence or result in straight up violence.

I generally advocate for doing what cops say and dealing with any wring doing in court. But after watching the video, how hot they came in, dragging him from the car, screaming and oepoer spraying him while he tried to de-escalate...at a certain point, if I think my life is in danger, I'm going to try to get away. I can't really blame him for that. Maybe they killed him because he ran, but Tyre ran because he thought they were going to kill him. And they did.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

Great strategy! Fight the police because they will kill you if you don't. ha

I mean he could have laid there and let them suffocate him against the ground or beat him to death on the spot. I’d at least give myself the chance to live by running. He’s seen all the same videos and court cases of these scenarios to know, he’s likely going to die. I mean hell at this point being in your home and eating ice cream or sleeping can get you killed by cops with zero liability from the cops. Reckless driving/DUI does not justify beating a person to death, but I guess if you are black that’s the reason it is. He pulled over and stopped for Christ sake.

+1. Tyre Nichols did not die because he failed to follow directions. He died because these pigs wanted to kill him. That’s it.

Cops murder people all the time who comply with their directions.

You think this never happens? A cop in Florida shot a Black behavioral therapist who was complying when the autistic boy who was supposed to comply wasn’t. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna745716

Nobody said that. It rarely happens. Do you realize that you aren't privy to what over a million police officers do on a daily basis? You only know what pops up on your phone, and that's a big difference.

DP. You think the fact that not every cop brutalizes people excuses the ones who do? WTF is wrong with you?

DP. Nowhere in the PP’s post did they say that the officers should be excused for their behavior. Nothing is wrong with that PP. They simply posted that incidents are actually rare, despite what social media shows. Statistics prove this. Over 99% of police interactions (per FBI statistics) involve no use of force. That doesn’t mean there aren’t horrific uses of force, but it does demonstrate that this is rare. Of the uses of force that do occur, most are deemed justified. (Keep in mind that merely putting on handcuffs can be a use of force.)

I’m sure the PP would appreciate if you don’t jump to conclusions.

I would suggest you go back and reread the exchange, because pp absolutely was trying to deflect from the brutality of Nichols’ murder by citing to the fact that not all cops do this.

Are you suggesting that all cops do this? Really?
The PP said nothing wrong.

One bad apple spoils the bunch, and there is a lot more than one bad apple in the police forces in the United States.

This is a stupid view. There are bad apples in every single profession. Should we just get rid of everything?

DP

Agree - we should not throw the baby out with the dirty bath water. We need to invest much more in police training … they have a difficult and risky but important job.

Do you know what happens if you as a cop intervene and stop your fellow officers once they start abusing a person? The officer just put a target on his back. He’s now an officer who can’t be trusted. At any time he can be hung out to dry, left on an island when he’s supposed to have backup.

When you’re an officer, you’re a member of the gang. What happens when a gang member turns on his gang? Exactly.

And if cops cannot police themselves, then they have to be policed by third parties. (So to speak.)

Take away qualified immunity. Not turning on body cam means you lose your job and pension. If we don't have enough candidates with this kind of oversight, then shift tasks (spend funding on medical/social work crisis response teams and not military weapons for the police department; separate traffic enforcement from regular police force, etc). Offer different incentives.

I don't care how many nie guys you know as cops. This isn't working. American police cannot be trusted to police themselves. Other developed countries don't have this problem. Whatever they are doing needs to be started here, because we are failing. We are killing our own citizens.

That's really not true. The police chief immediately fired all five of these guys and the state brought charges against them. The system is working as it should.

Other developed countries don't have this problem because they have a much higher police-to-citizen ratio and they don't have the most heavily armed civilian population in the world.

Take away cops (which is de facto happening now as police forces shrink) and you replace it with vigilante justice. Because America's underlying violence problem isn't just police. It's all of us.

This!

Taking away qualified immunity is not something that will help. At all.
Qualified immunity does NOT protect LE when they break the law.... like they did here.

These 5 officers not only brought shame to themselves - they have also put another black eye on LE everywhere.

The actions these officers took are not representative of 95%+ of officers we have. LE have thousands of encounters with the public every day that end as routine encounters.
Please don't allow yourself to believe that this horrific incident is representative of most LE.

Why is it that the systems you praise only "works" if there is some kind of video of it? Are all cops stupid enough to only commit acts like this in the vicinity of a pole camera that captures it on video? That would be pretty dumb. They certainly aren't turning in each other when there isn't video, though.

Maybe it's the cameras that work, not the self-policing.

Why is it that you won't acknowledge the thousands of police encounters that end routinely? Why can you not admit that the majority of the thousands of police officers that protect the public every day would never resort to this?

Oh, I'll absolutely acknowledge that, all of it. And I still hold that what we have set up as a system is not good enough, because it is not working, and it's ONLY when there is video that this is coming to light, because it's the cameras that work -- not the self-policing.

Will you join me and acknowledge that?

Different poster, but it's not "only" working when it comes to light. Most complaints against cops are filed by other cops. You just don't hear about it because it's handled by the department as would any other employment related complaint. Police get fired for misconduct and you never hear about it.

Video, on the other hand, makes cheap easy news for our media. Don't take it as representing the entire universe of police conduct or misconduct. Because it's not.

I'm talking about beatdowns like this. Extreme violence, not questionably maybe a little too much stuff.

Do you really think incidents like this, Rodney King, George Floyd. etc., ONLY happen to occur when there is video of it? Shouldn't there be at least a couple such hyperviolent episode that was solely addressed because of colleague report and no video evidence?

Or is there an account of this? I am assuming that if a police officer was found to have killed an innocent person in a violent way, there would be at least one newspaper article in the local paper about it. What am I missing here? (I really, honestly hope you are going to post links to a couple of stories online, because I would actually like to be wrong about this.)

IU am not the pp, but will provide at least one incident that doesn't appear to be on video....

https://www.thestate.com/news/local/crime/article270987052.html

I know there are more, but I am not going to search for them. I would also point out that many, if not most, encounters with police today are captured on camera - either because of body cams or because of cameras everywhere on the streets. Just do a search for "police fired for excessive force" and you will see that it happens.....and video isn't always available.

I will also point out that any occupation has bad apples - health care, teaching, lawyers, etc. You just hear about the police officers more because of viral videos.

Right, that guy did not end up needing medical intervention. He was medically cleared and put in detention.

I am talking about true violence -- beatdowns, the stuff that goes well beyond the pale. Not a guy that ends up being cleared by doctors as perfectly stable to be left alone in a cell.

Despite what you believe, these kinds of incidents happen rarely in today's word, thankfully. This is because police DO police themselves. They get rid of officers who demonstrate excessive force BEFORE they can cause harm or death to others. And, when they do, they are generally captured on video because more and more police depts. use body cams and because of video cameras everywhere today. When someone dies at the hands of police, it is always in the news. And, it is not always the fault of the police officer.

You try to find a story of someone who died at the hand of police in the last 5-10 years that was NOT captured on video. It is a rare occurrence.

During the 2019 arrest of Elijah McClain, a Black man who died after officers confronted him in suburban Denver, the body cameras of all three officers came off during a struggle. The cameras continued to record audio but there was no video footage to verify a police claim that McClain reached for one of the officers' guns. He was placed in a chokehold and paramedics injected him with the powerful sedative ketamine. He later died at a hospital.

There are so many examples that I really can’t believe that you actually thought you made a valid point. You’re just making up your own narrative without any critical thinking.

And, once again.... these types of incidents are extremely rare.
They are always reported. The vast majority of them are on video. And, not all of them are the fault of the police officers.
Nothing I have said is untrue or a made up narrative.

They are not that rare. 1 out of 100 is not rare by any bodies measurement.

Where in the hell are you getting your stats? 1 in 100 of WHAT? Citation needed.

DP here.
I’ll go out on a limb here and guess this may be in reference to a post of mine before, in which I wrote over 99% of police interactions contain no use of force (an FBI number). I did explain that “use of force” can simply mean an arrest or pointing a taser (without using it).

Yes, but for 2021, over half of the "use of force" instances caused serious bodily harm, so keep that in mind.

In 2021, 50.7% of use-of-force incidents submitted to the FBI resulted in serious bodily injury of a person, 33.2% caused the death of a person, and 17% involved the discharge of a firearm at or in the direction of a person.
https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-2021-and-first-quarter-2022-statistics-from-the-national-use-of-force-data-collection

Sorry, but this is a bad read of the data. Read what incidents qualified for submission to the FBI. It is only those that caused serious bodily injury or involved the discharge of a firearm. (""Agencies submitted data concerning qualifying uses of force that included any action that resulted in the death or serious bodily injury2 of a person, or the discharge of a firearm at or in the direction of a person.")

The two are you are mixing definitions.

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Anonymous wrote:It’s on Vimeo. The cops came in hot. Not sure if he didn’t pull over immediately but they were clearly angry and dragged him from the car. He was calm and trying to talk to them. He got scared and ran. They got angry that they had to chase him. Looks like one cop maybe got sprayed in his eye.

They find him and kick him in the head multiple times. They hold him while others near him.

How can anyone feel safe around police no matter your color or their color? These men beat him to death.

I’m so heartbroken for his family. I can’t imagine dying like that. Feeling so helpless and terrified.

So sickening.

Being enraged to riot is understandable but it’s not the cops who will suffer.

I know the job messes with your head.

I wish we weren’t such a violent country/culture.

What a $hitty world we’ve created for our children.

There's something really wrong with many, many, many men. They have these fragile little egos and when something doesn't go their way, they react to an insane level. Is it right to run from a cop? No, but it should never be a death sentence or result in straight up violence.

I generally advocate for doing what cops say and dealing with any wring doing in court. But after watching the video, how hot they came in, dragging him from the car, screaming and oepoer spraying him while he tried to de-escalate...at a certain point, if I think my life is in danger, I'm going to try to get away. I can't really blame him for that. Maybe they killed him because he ran, but Tyre ran because he thought they were going to kill him. And they did.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

Great strategy! Fight the police because they will kill you if you don't. ha

I mean he could have laid there and let them suffocate him against the ground or beat him to death on the spot. I’d at least give myself the chance to live by running. He’s seen all the same videos and court cases of these scenarios to know, he’s likely going to die. I mean hell at this point being in your home and eating ice cream or sleeping can get you killed by cops with zero liability from the cops. Reckless driving/DUI does not justify beating a person to death, but I guess if you are black that’s the reason it is. He pulled over and stopped for Christ sake.

+1. Tyre Nichols did not die because he failed to follow directions. He died because these pigs wanted to kill him. That’s it.

Cops murder people all the time who comply with their directions.

You think this never happens? A cop in Florida shot a Black behavioral therapist who was complying when the autistic boy who was supposed to comply wasn’t. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna745716

Nobody said that. It rarely happens. Do you realize that you aren't privy to what over a million police officers do on a daily basis? You only know what pops up on your phone, and that's a big difference.

DP. You think the fact that not every cop brutalizes people excuses the ones who do? WTF is wrong with you?

DP. Nowhere in the PP’s post did they say that the officers should be excused for their behavior. Nothing is wrong with that PP. They simply posted that incidents are actually rare, despite what social media shows. Statistics prove this. Over 99% of police interactions (per FBI statistics) involve no use of force. That doesn’t mean there aren’t horrific uses of force, but it does demonstrate that this is rare. Of the uses of force that do occur, most are deemed justified. (Keep in mind that merely putting on handcuffs can be a use of force.)

I’m sure the PP would appreciate if you don’t jump to conclusions.

I would suggest you go back and reread the exchange, because pp absolutely was trying to deflect from the brutality of Nichols’ murder by citing to the fact that not all cops do this.

Are you suggesting that all cops do this? Really?
The PP said nothing wrong.

One bad apple spoils the bunch, and there is a lot more than one bad apple in the police forces in the United States.

This is a stupid view. There are bad apples in every single profession. Should we just get rid of everything?

DP

Agree - we should not throw the baby out with the dirty bath water. We need to invest much more in police training … they have a difficult and risky but important job.

Do you know what happens if you as a cop intervene and stop your fellow officers once they start abusing a person? The officer just put a target on his back. He’s now an officer who can’t be trusted. At any time he can be hung out to dry, left on an island when he’s supposed to have backup.

When you’re an officer, you’re a member of the gang. What happens when a gang member turns on his gang? Exactly.

And if cops cannot police themselves, then they have to be policed by third parties. (So to speak.)

Take away qualified immunity. Not turning on body cam means you lose your job and pension. If we don't have enough candidates with this kind of oversight, then shift tasks (spend funding on medical/social work crisis response teams and not military weapons for the police department; separate traffic enforcement from regular police force, etc). Offer different incentives.

I don't care how many nie guys you know as cops. This isn't working. American police cannot be trusted to police themselves. Other developed countries don't have this problem. Whatever they are doing needs to be started here, because we are failing. We are killing our own citizens.

That's really not true. The police chief immediately fired all five of these guys and the state brought charges against them. The system is working as it should.

Other developed countries don't have this problem because they have a much higher police-to-citizen ratio and they don't have the most heavily armed civilian population in the world.

Take away cops (which is de facto happening now as police forces shrink) and you replace it with vigilante justice. Because America's underlying violence problem isn't just police. It's all of us.

This!

Taking away qualified immunity is not something that will help. At all.
Qualified immunity does NOT protect LE when they break the law.... like they did here.

These 5 officers not only brought shame to themselves - they have also put another black eye on LE everywhere.

The actions these officers took are not representative of 95%+ of officers we have. LE have thousands of encounters with the public every day that end as routine encounters.
Please don't allow yourself to believe that this horrific incident is representative of most LE.

Why is it that the systems you praise only "works" if there is some kind of video of it? Are all cops stupid enough to only commit acts like this in the vicinity of a pole camera that captures it on video? That would be pretty dumb. They certainly aren't turning in each other when there isn't video, though.

Maybe it's the cameras that work, not the self-policing.

Why is it that you won't acknowledge the thousands of police encounters that end routinely? Why can you not admit that the majority of the thousands of police officers that protect the public every day would never resort to this?

Oh, I'll absolutely acknowledge that, all of it. And I still hold that what we have set up as a system is not good enough, because it is not working, and it's ONLY when there is video that this is coming to light, because it's the cameras that work -- not the self-policing.

Will you join me and acknowledge that?

Different poster, but it's not "only" working when it comes to light. Most complaints against cops are filed by other cops. You just don't hear about it because it's handled by the department as would any other employment related complaint. Police get fired for misconduct and you never hear about it.

Video, on the other hand, makes cheap easy news for our media. Don't take it as representing the entire universe of police conduct or misconduct. Because it's not.

I'm talking about beatdowns like this. Extreme violence, not questionably maybe a little too much stuff.

Do you really think incidents like this, Rodney King, George Floyd. etc., ONLY happen to occur when there is video of it? Shouldn't there be at least a couple such hyperviolent episode that was solely addressed because of colleague report and no video evidence?

Or is there an account of this? I am assuming that if a police officer was found to have killed an innocent person in a violent way, there would be at least one newspaper article in the local paper about it. What am I missing here? (I really, honestly hope you are going to post links to a couple of stories online, because I would actually like to be wrong about this.)

IU am not the pp, but will provide at least one incident that doesn't appear to be on video....

https://www.thestate.com/news/local/crime/article270987052.html

I know there are more, but I am not going to search for them. I would also point out that many, if not most, encounters with police today are captured on camera - either because of body cams or because of cameras everywhere on the streets. Just do a search for "police fired for excessive force" and you will see that it happens.....and video isn't always available.

I will also point out that any occupation has bad apples - health care, teaching, lawyers, etc. You just hear about the police officers more because of viral videos.

Right, that guy did not end up needing medical intervention. He was medically cleared and put in detention.

I am talking about true violence -- beatdowns, the stuff that goes well beyond the pale. Not a guy that ends up being cleared by doctors as perfectly stable to be left alone in a cell.

Despite what you believe, these kinds of incidents happen rarely in today's word, thankfully. This is because police DO police themselves. They get rid of officers who demonstrate excessive force BEFORE they can cause harm or death to others. And, when they do, they are generally captured on video because more and more police depts. use body cams and because of video cameras everywhere today. When someone dies at the hands of police, it is always in the news. And, it is not always the fault of the police officer.

You try to find a story of someone who died at the hand of police in the last 5-10 years that was NOT captured on video. It is a rare occurrence.

During the 2019 arrest of Elijah McClain, a Black man who died after officers confronted him in suburban Denver, the body cameras of all three officers came off during a struggle. The cameras continued to record audio but there was no video footage to verify a police claim that McClain reached for one of the officers' guns. He was placed in a chokehold and paramedics injected him with the powerful sedative ketamine. He later died at a hospital.

There are so many examples that I really can’t believe that you actually thought you made a valid point. You’re just making up your own narrative without any critical thinking.

And, once again.... these types of incidents are extremely rare.
They are always reported. The vast majority of them are on video. And, not all of them are the fault of the police officers.
Nothing I have said is untrue or a made up narrative.

They are not that rare. 1 out of 100 is not rare by any bodies measurement.

Where in the hell are you getting your stats? 1 in 100 of WHAT? Citation needed.

DP here.
I’ll go out on a limb here and guess this may be in reference to a post of mine before, in which I wrote over 99% of police interactions contain no use of force (an FBI number). I did explain that “use of force” can simply mean an arrest or pointing a taser (without using it).

Yes, but for 2021, over half of the "use of force" instances caused serious bodily harm, so keep that in mind.

In 2021, 50.7% of use-of-force incidents submitted to the FBI resulted in serious bodily injury of a person, 33.2% caused the death of a person, and 17% involved the discharge of a firearm at or in the direction of a person.
https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-2021-and-first-quarter-2022-statistics-from-the-national-use-of-force-data-collection

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Anonymous wrote:It’s on Vimeo. The cops came in hot. Not sure if he didn’t pull over immediately but they were clearly angry and dragged him from the car. He was calm and trying to talk to them. He got scared and ran. They got angry that they had to chase him. Looks like one cop maybe got sprayed in his eye.

They find him and kick him in the head multiple times. They hold him while others near him.

How can anyone feel safe around police no matter your color or their color? These men beat him to death.

I’m so heartbroken for his family. I can’t imagine dying like that. Feeling so helpless and terrified.

So sickening.

Being enraged to riot is understandable but it’s not the cops who will suffer.

I know the job messes with your head.

I wish we weren’t such a violent country/culture.

What a $hitty world we’ve created for our children.

There's something really wrong with many, many, many men. They have these fragile little egos and when something doesn't go their way, they react to an insane level. Is it right to run from a cop? No, but it should never be a death sentence or result in straight up violence.

I generally advocate for doing what cops say and dealing with any wring doing in court. But after watching the video, how hot they came in, dragging him from the car, screaming and oepoer spraying him while he tried to de-escalate...at a certain point, if I think my life is in danger, I'm going to try to get away. I can't really blame him for that. Maybe they killed him because he ran, but Tyre ran because he thought they were going to kill him. And they did.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

Great strategy! Fight the police because they will kill you if you don't. ha

I mean he could have laid there and let them suffocate him against the ground or beat him to death on the spot. I’d at least give myself the chance to live by running. He’s seen all the same videos and court cases of these scenarios to know, he’s likely going to die. I mean hell at this point being in your home and eating ice cream or sleeping can get you killed by cops with zero liability from the cops. Reckless driving/DUI does not justify beating a person to death, but I guess if you are black that’s the reason it is. He pulled over and stopped for Christ sake.

+1. Tyre Nichols did not die because he failed to follow directions. He died because these pigs wanted to kill him. That’s it.

Cops murder people all the time who comply with their directions.

You think this never happens? A cop in Florida shot a Black behavioral therapist who was complying when the autistic boy who was supposed to comply wasn’t. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna745716

Nobody said that. It rarely happens. Do you realize that you aren't privy to what over a million police officers do on a daily basis? You only know what pops up on your phone, and that's a big difference.

DP. You think the fact that not every cop brutalizes people excuses the ones who do? WTF is wrong with you?

DP. Nowhere in the PP’s post did they say that the officers should be excused for their behavior. Nothing is wrong with that PP. They simply posted that incidents are actually rare, despite what social media shows. Statistics prove this. Over 99% of police interactions (per FBI statistics) involve no use of force. That doesn’t mean there aren’t horrific uses of force, but it does demonstrate that this is rare. Of the uses of force that do occur, most are deemed justified. (Keep in mind that merely putting on handcuffs can be a use of force.)

I’m sure the PP would appreciate if you don’t jump to conclusions.

I would suggest you go back and reread the exchange, because pp absolutely was trying to deflect from the brutality of Nichols’ murder by citing to the fact that not all cops do this.

Are you suggesting that all cops do this? Really?
The PP said nothing wrong.

One bad apple spoils the bunch, and there is a lot more than one bad apple in the police forces in the United States.

This is a stupid view. There are bad apples in every single profession. Should we just get rid of everything?

DP

Agree - we should not throw the baby out with the dirty bath water. We need to invest much more in police training … they have a difficult and risky but important job.

Do you know what happens if you as a cop intervene and stop your fellow officers once they start abusing a person? The officer just put a target on his back. He’s now an officer who can’t be trusted. At any time he can be hung out to dry, left on an island when he’s supposed to have backup.

When you’re an officer, you’re a member of the gang. What happens when a gang member turns on his gang? Exactly.

And if cops cannot police themselves, then they have to be policed by third parties. (So to speak.)

Take away qualified immunity. Not turning on body cam means you lose your job and pension. If we don't have enough candidates with this kind of oversight, then shift tasks (spend funding on medical/social work crisis response teams and not military weapons for the police department; separate traffic enforcement from regular police force, etc). Offer different incentives.

I don't care how many nie guys you know as cops. This isn't working. American police cannot be trusted to police themselves. Other developed countries don't have this problem. Whatever they are doing needs to be started here, because we are failing. We are killing our own citizens.

That's really not true. The police chief immediately fired all five of these guys and the state brought charges against them. The system is working as it should.

Other developed countries don't have this problem because they have a much higher police-to-citizen ratio and they don't have the most heavily armed civilian population in the world.

Take away cops (which is de facto happening now as police forces shrink) and you replace it with vigilante justice. Because America's underlying violence problem isn't just police. It's all of us.

This!

Taking away qualified immunity is not something that will help. At all.
Qualified immunity does NOT protect LE when they break the law.... like they did here.

These 5 officers not only brought shame to themselves - they have also put another black eye on LE everywhere.

The actions these officers took are not representative of 95%+ of officers we have. LE have thousands of encounters with the public every day that end as routine encounters.
Please don't allow yourself to believe that this horrific incident is representative of most LE.

Why is it that the systems you praise only "works" if there is some kind of video of it? Are all cops stupid enough to only commit acts like this in the vicinity of a pole camera that captures it on video? That would be pretty dumb. They certainly aren't turning in each other when there isn't video, though.

Maybe it's the cameras that work, not the self-policing.

Why is it that you won't acknowledge the thousands of police encounters that end routinely? Why can you not admit that the majority of the thousands of police officers that protect the public every day would never resort to this?

Oh, I'll absolutely acknowledge that, all of it. And I still hold that what we have set up as a system is not good enough, because it is not working, and it's ONLY when there is video that this is coming to light, because it's the cameras that work -- not the self-policing.

Will you join me and acknowledge that?

Different poster, but it's not "only" working when it comes to light. Most complaints against cops are filed by other cops. You just don't hear about it because it's handled by the department as would any other employment related complaint. Police get fired for misconduct and you never hear about it.

Video, on the other hand, makes cheap easy news for our media. Don't take it as representing the entire universe of police conduct or misconduct. Because it's not.

I'm talking about beatdowns like this. Extreme violence, not questionably maybe a little too much stuff.

Do you really think incidents like this, Rodney King, George Floyd. etc., ONLY happen to occur when there is video of it? Shouldn't there be at least a couple such hyperviolent episode that was solely addressed because of colleague report and no video evidence?

Or is there an account of this? I am assuming that if a police officer was found to have killed an innocent person in a violent way, there would be at least one newspaper article in the local paper about it. What am I missing here? (I really, honestly hope you are going to post links to a couple of stories online, because I would actually like to be wrong about this.)

IU am not the pp, but will provide at least one incident that doesn't appear to be on video....

https://www.thestate.com/news/local/crime/article270987052.html

I know there are more, but I am not going to search for them. I would also point out that many, if not most, encounters with police today are captured on camera - either because of body cams or because of cameras everywhere on the streets. Just do a search for "police fired for excessive force" and you will see that it happens.....and video isn't always available.

I will also point out that any occupation has bad apples - health care, teaching, lawyers, etc. You just hear about the police officers more because of viral videos.

Right, that guy did not end up needing medical intervention. He was medically cleared and put in detention.

I am talking about true violence -- beatdowns, the stuff that goes well beyond the pale. Not a guy that ends up being cleared by doctors as perfectly stable to be left alone in a cell.

Despite what you believe, these kinds of incidents happen rarely in today's word, thankfully. This is because police DO police themselves. They get rid of officers who demonstrate excessive force BEFORE they can cause harm or death to others. And, when they do, they are generally captured on video because more and more police depts. use body cams and because of video cameras everywhere today. When someone dies at the hands of police, it is always in the news. And, it is not always the fault of the police officer.

You try to find a story of someone who died at the hand of police in the last 5-10 years that was NOT captured on video. It is a rare occurrence.

During the 2019 arrest of Elijah McClain, a Black man who died after officers confronted him in suburban Denver, the body cameras of all three officers came off during a struggle. The cameras continued to record audio but there was no video footage to verify a police claim that McClain reached for one of the officers' guns. He was placed in a chokehold and paramedics injected him with the powerful sedative ketamine. He later died at a hospital.

There are so many examples that I really can’t believe that you actually thought you made a valid point. You’re just making up your own narrative without any critical thinking.

And, once again.... these types of incidents are extremely rare.
They are always reported. The vast majority of them are on video. And, not all of them are the fault of the police officers.
Nothing I have said is untrue or a made up narrative.

They are not that rare. 1 out of 100 is not rare by any bodies measurement.

Where in the hell are you getting your stats? 1 in 100 of WHAT? Citation needed.

DP here.
I’ll go out on a limb here and guess this may be in reference to a post of mine before, in which I wrote over 99% of police interactions contain no use of force (an FBI number). I did explain that “use of force” can simply mean an arrest or pointing a taser (without using it).

It’s still pathetic you also don’t know that’s a very low bar and it’s self reporting like rapes.

Come man! Stop being so naive.

Your a wife of a cop right?

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Anonymous wrote:It’s on Vimeo. The cops came in hot. Not sure if he didn’t pull over immediately but they were clearly angry and dragged him from the car. He was calm and trying to talk to them. He got scared and ran. They got angry that they had to chase him. Looks like one cop maybe got sprayed in his eye.

They find him and kick him in the head multiple times. They hold him while others near him.

How can anyone feel safe around police no matter your color or their color? These men beat him to death.

I’m so heartbroken for his family. I can’t imagine dying like that. Feeling so helpless and terrified.

So sickening.

Being enraged to riot is understandable but it’s not the cops who will suffer.

I know the job messes with your head.

I wish we weren’t such a violent country/culture.

What a $hitty world we’ve created for our children.

There's something really wrong with many, many, many men. They have these fragile little egos and when something doesn't go their way, they react to an insane level. Is it right to run from a cop? No, but it should never be a death sentence or result in straight up violence.

I generally advocate for doing what cops say and dealing with any wring doing in court. But after watching the video, how hot they came in, dragging him from the car, screaming and oepoer spraying him while he tried to de-escalate...at a certain point, if I think my life is in danger, I'm going to try to get away. I can't really blame him for that. Maybe they killed him because he ran, but Tyre ran because he thought they were going to kill him. And they did.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

Great strategy! Fight the police because they will kill you if you don't. ha

I mean he could have laid there and let them suffocate him against the ground or beat him to death on the spot. I’d at least give myself the chance to live by running. He’s seen all the same videos and court cases of these scenarios to know, he’s likely going to die. I mean hell at this point being in your home and eating ice cream or sleeping can get you killed by cops with zero liability from the cops. Reckless driving/DUI does not justify beating a person to death, but I guess if you are black that’s the reason it is. He pulled over and stopped for Christ sake.

+1. Tyre Nichols did not die because he failed to follow directions. He died because these pigs wanted to kill him. That’s it.

Cops murder people all the time who comply with their directions.

You think this never happens? A cop in Florida shot a Black behavioral therapist who was complying when the autistic boy who was supposed to comply wasn’t. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna745716

Nobody said that. It rarely happens. Do you realize that you aren't privy to what over a million police officers do on a daily basis? You only know what pops up on your phone, and that's a big difference.

DP. You think the fact that not every cop brutalizes people excuses the ones who do? WTF is wrong with you?

DP. Nowhere in the PP’s post did they say that the officers should be excused for their behavior. Nothing is wrong with that PP. They simply posted that incidents are actually rare, despite what social media shows. Statistics prove this. Over 99% of police interactions (per FBI statistics) involve no use of force. That doesn’t mean there aren’t horrific uses of force, but it does demonstrate that this is rare. Of the uses of force that do occur, most are deemed justified. (Keep in mind that merely putting on handcuffs can be a use of force.)

I’m sure the PP would appreciate if you don’t jump to conclusions.

I would suggest you go back and reread the exchange, because pp absolutely was trying to deflect from the brutality of Nichols’ murder by citing to the fact that not all cops do this.

Are you suggesting that all cops do this? Really?
The PP said nothing wrong.

One bad apple spoils the bunch, and there is a lot more than one bad apple in the police forces in the United States.

This is a stupid view. There are bad apples in every single profession. Should we just get rid of everything?

DP

Agree - we should not throw the baby out with the dirty bath water. We need to invest much more in police training … they have a difficult and risky but important job.

Do you know what happens if you as a cop intervene and stop your fellow officers once they start abusing a person? The officer just put a target on his back. He’s now an officer who can’t be trusted. At any time he can be hung out to dry, left on an island when he’s supposed to have backup.

When you’re an officer, you’re a member of the gang. What happens when a gang member turns on his gang? Exactly.

And if cops cannot police themselves, then they have to be policed by third parties. (So to speak.)

Take away qualified immunity. Not turning on body cam means you lose your job and pension. If we don't have enough candidates with this kind of oversight, then shift tasks (spend funding on medical/social work crisis response teams and not military weapons for the police department; separate traffic enforcement from regular police force, etc). Offer different incentives.

I don't care how many nie guys you know as cops. This isn't working. American police cannot be trusted to police themselves. Other developed countries don't have this problem. Whatever they are doing needs to be started here, because we are failing. We are killing our own citizens.

That's really not true. The police chief immediately fired all five of these guys and the state brought charges against them. The system is working as it should.

Other developed countries don't have this problem because they have a much higher police-to-citizen ratio and they don't have the most heavily armed civilian population in the world.

Take away cops (which is de facto happening now as police forces shrink) and you replace it with vigilante justice. Because America's underlying violence problem isn't just police. It's all of us.

This!

Taking away qualified immunity is not something that will help. At all.
Qualified immunity does NOT protect LE when they break the law.... like they did here.

These 5 officers not only brought shame to themselves - they have also put another black eye on LE everywhere.

The actions these officers took are not representative of 95%+ of officers we have. LE have thousands of encounters with the public every day that end as routine encounters.
Please don't allow yourself to believe that this horrific incident is representative of most LE.

Why is it that the systems you praise only "works" if there is some kind of video of it? Are all cops stupid enough to only commit acts like this in the vicinity of a pole camera that captures it on video? That would be pretty dumb. They certainly aren't turning in each other when there isn't video, though.

Maybe it's the cameras that work, not the self-policing.

Why is it that you won't acknowledge the thousands of police encounters that end routinely? Why can you not admit that the majority of the thousands of police officers that protect the public every day would never resort to this?

Oh, I'll absolutely acknowledge that, all of it. And I still hold that what we have set up as a system is not good enough, because it is not working, and it's ONLY when there is video that this is coming to light, because it's the cameras that work -- not the self-policing.

Will you join me and acknowledge that?

Different poster, but it's not "only" working when it comes to light. Most complaints against cops are filed by other cops. You just don't hear about it because it's handled by the department as would any other employment related complaint. Police get fired for misconduct and you never hear about it.

Video, on the other hand, makes cheap easy news for our media. Don't take it as representing the entire universe of police conduct or misconduct. Because it's not.

I'm talking about beatdowns like this. Extreme violence, not questionably maybe a little too much stuff.

Do you really think incidents like this, Rodney King, George Floyd. etc., ONLY happen to occur when there is video of it? Shouldn't there be at least a couple such hyperviolent episode that was solely addressed because of colleague report and no video evidence?

Or is there an account of this? I am assuming that if a police officer was found to have killed an innocent person in a violent way, there would be at least one newspaper article in the local paper about it. What am I missing here? (I really, honestly hope you are going to post links to a couple of stories online, because I would actually like to be wrong about this.)

IU am not the pp, but will provide at least one incident that doesn't appear to be on video....

https://www.thestate.com/news/local/crime/article270987052.html

I know there are more, but I am not going to search for them. I would also point out that many, if not most, encounters with police today are captured on camera - either because of body cams or because of cameras everywhere on the streets. Just do a search for "police fired for excessive force" and you will see that it happens.....and video isn't always available.

I will also point out that any occupation has bad apples - health care, teaching, lawyers, etc. You just hear about the police officers more because of viral videos.

Right, that guy did not end up needing medical intervention. He was medically cleared and put in detention.

I am talking about true violence -- beatdowns, the stuff that goes well beyond the pale. Not a guy that ends up being cleared by doctors as perfectly stable to be left alone in a cell.

Despite what you believe, these kinds of incidents happen rarely in today's word, thankfully. This is because police DO police themselves. They get rid of officers who demonstrate excessive force BEFORE they can cause harm or death to others. And, when they do, they are generally captured on video because more and more police depts. use body cams and because of video cameras everywhere today. When someone dies at the hands of police, it is always in the news. And, it is not always the fault of the police officer.

You try to find a story of someone who died at the hand of police in the last 5-10 years that was NOT captured on video. It is a rare occurrence.

During the 2019 arrest of Elijah McClain, a Black man who died after officers confronted him in suburban Denver, the body cameras of all three officers came off during a struggle. The cameras continued to record audio but there was no video footage to verify a police claim that McClain reached for one of the officers' guns. He was placed in a chokehold and paramedics injected him with the powerful sedative ketamine. He later died at a hospital.

There are so many examples that I really can’t believe that you actually thought you made a valid point. You’re just making up your own narrative without any critical thinking.

And, once again.... these types of incidents are extremely rare.
They are always reported. The vast majority of them are on video. And, not all of them are the fault of the police officers.
Nothing I have said is untrue or a made up narrative.

They are not that rare. 1 out of 100 is not rare by any bodies measurement.

Where in the hell are you getting your stats? 1 in 100 of WHAT? Citation needed.

DP here.
I’ll go out on a limb here and guess this may be in reference to a post of mine before, in which I wrote over 99% of police interactions contain no use of force (an FBI number). I did explain that “use of force” can simply mean an arrest or pointing a taser (without using it).

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Anonymous wrote:It’s on Vimeo. The cops came in hot. Not sure if he didn’t pull over immediately but they were clearly angry and dragged him from the car. He was calm and trying to talk to them. He got scared and ran. They got angry that they had to chase him. Looks like one cop maybe got sprayed in his eye.

They find him and kick him in the head multiple times. They hold him while others near him.

How can anyone feel safe around police no matter your color or their color? These men beat him to death.

I’m so heartbroken for his family. I can’t imagine dying like that. Feeling so helpless and terrified.

So sickening.

Being enraged to riot is understandable but it’s not the cops who will suffer.

I know the job messes with your head.

I wish we weren’t such a violent country/culture.

What a $hitty world we’ve created for our children.

There's something really wrong with many, many, many men. They have these fragile little egos and when something doesn't go their way, they react to an insane level. Is it right to run from a cop? No, but it should never be a death sentence or result in straight up violence.

I generally advocate for doing what cops say and dealing with any wring doing in court. But after watching the video, how hot they came in, dragging him from the car, screaming and oepoer spraying him while he tried to de-escalate...at a certain point, if I think my life is in danger, I'm going to try to get away. I can't really blame him for that. Maybe they killed him because he ran, but Tyre ran because he thought they were going to kill him. And they did.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

Great strategy! Fight the police because they will kill you if you don't. ha

I mean he could have laid there and let them suffocate him against the ground or beat him to death on the spot. I’d at least give myself the chance to live by running. He’s seen all the same videos and court cases of these scenarios to know, he’s likely going to die. I mean hell at this point being in your home and eating ice cream or sleeping can get you killed by cops with zero liability from the cops. Reckless driving/DUI does not justify beating a person to death, but I guess if you are black that’s the reason it is. He pulled over and stopped for Christ sake.

+1. Tyre Nichols did not die because he failed to follow directions. He died because these pigs wanted to kill him. That’s it.

Cops murder people all the time who comply with their directions.

You think this never happens? A cop in Florida shot a Black behavioral therapist who was complying when the autistic boy who was supposed to comply wasn’t. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna745716

Nobody said that. It rarely happens. Do you realize that you aren't privy to what over a million police officers do on a daily basis? You only know what pops up on your phone, and that's a big difference.

DP. You think the fact that not every cop brutalizes people excuses the ones who do? WTF is wrong with you?

DP. Nowhere in the PP’s post did they say that the officers should be excused for their behavior. Nothing is wrong with that PP. They simply posted that incidents are actually rare, despite what social media shows. Statistics prove this. Over 99% of police interactions (per FBI statistics) involve no use of force. That doesn’t mean there aren’t horrific uses of force, but it does demonstrate that this is rare. Of the uses of force that do occur, most are deemed justified. (Keep in mind that merely putting on handcuffs can be a use of force.)

I’m sure the PP would appreciate if you don’t jump to conclusions.

I would suggest you go back and reread the exchange, because pp absolutely was trying to deflect from the brutality of Nichols’ murder by citing to the fact that not all cops do this.

Are you suggesting that all cops do this? Really?
The PP said nothing wrong.

One bad apple spoils the bunch, and there is a lot more than one bad apple in the police forces in the United States.

This is a stupid view. There are bad apples in every single profession. Should we just get rid of everything?

DP

Agree - we should not throw the baby out with the dirty bath water. We need to invest much more in police training … they have a difficult and risky but important job.

Do you know what happens if you as a cop intervene and stop your fellow officers once they start abusing a person? The officer just put a target on his back. He’s now an officer who can’t be trusted. At any time he can be hung out to dry, left on an island when he’s supposed to have backup.

When you’re an officer, you’re a member of the gang. What happens when a gang member turns on his gang? Exactly.

And if cops cannot police themselves, then they have to be policed by third parties. (So to speak.)

Take away qualified immunity. Not turning on body cam means you lose your job and pension. If we don't have enough candidates with this kind of oversight, then shift tasks (spend funding on medical/social work crisis response teams and not military weapons for the police department; separate traffic enforcement from regular police force, etc). Offer different incentives.

I don't care how many nie guys you know as cops. This isn't working. American police cannot be trusted to police themselves. Other developed countries don't have this problem. Whatever they are doing needs to be started here, because we are failing. We are killing our own citizens.

That's really not true. The police chief immediately fired all five of these guys and the state brought charges against them. The system is working as it should.

Other developed countries don't have this problem because they have a much higher police-to-citizen ratio and they don't have the most heavily armed civilian population in the world.

Take away cops (which is de facto happening now as police forces shrink) and you replace it with vigilante justice. Because America's underlying violence problem isn't just police. It's all of us.

This!

Taking away qualified immunity is not something that will help. At all.
Qualified immunity does NOT protect LE when they break the law.... like they did here.

These 5 officers not only brought shame to themselves - they have also put another black eye on LE everywhere.

The actions these officers took are not representative of 95%+ of officers we have. LE have thousands of encounters with the public every day that end as routine encounters.
Please don't allow yourself to believe that this horrific incident is representative of most LE.

Why is it that the systems you praise only "works" if there is some kind of video of it? Are all cops stupid enough to only commit acts like this in the vicinity of a pole camera that captures it on video? That would be pretty dumb. They certainly aren't turning in each other when there isn't video, though.

Maybe it's the cameras that work, not the self-policing.

Why is it that you won't acknowledge the thousands of police encounters that end routinely? Why can you not admit that the majority of the thousands of police officers that protect the public every day would never resort to this?

Oh, I'll absolutely acknowledge that, all of it. And I still hold that what we have set up as a system is not good enough, because it is not working, and it's ONLY when there is video that this is coming to light, because it's the cameras that work -- not the self-policing.

Will you join me and acknowledge that?

Different poster, but it's not "only" working when it comes to light. Most complaints against cops are filed by other cops. You just don't hear about it because it's handled by the department as would any other employment related complaint. Police get fired for misconduct and you never hear about it.

Video, on the other hand, makes cheap easy news for our media. Don't take it as representing the entire universe of police conduct or misconduct. Because it's not.

I'm talking about beatdowns like this. Extreme violence, not questionably maybe a little too much stuff.

Do you really think incidents like this, Rodney King, George Floyd. etc., ONLY happen to occur when there is video of it? Shouldn't there be at least a couple such hyperviolent episode that was solely addressed because of colleague report and no video evidence?

Or is there an account of this? I am assuming that if a police officer was found to have killed an innocent person in a violent way, there would be at least one newspaper article in the local paper about it. What am I missing here? (I really, honestly hope you are going to post links to a couple of stories online, because I would actually like to be wrong about this.)

IU am not the pp, but will provide at least one incident that doesn't appear to be on video....

https://www.thestate.com/news/local/crime/article270987052.html

I know there are more, but I am not going to search for them. I would also point out that many, if not most, encounters with police today are captured on camera - either because of body cams or because of cameras everywhere on the streets. Just do a search for "police fired for excessive force" and you will see that it happens.....and video isn't always available.

I will also point out that any occupation has bad apples - health care, teaching, lawyers, etc. You just hear about the police officers more because of viral videos.

Right, that guy did not end up needing medical intervention. He was medically cleared and put in detention.

I am talking about true violence -- beatdowns, the stuff that goes well beyond the pale. Not a guy that ends up being cleared by doctors as perfectly stable to be left alone in a cell.

Despite what you believe, these kinds of incidents happen rarely in today's word, thankfully. This is because police DO police themselves. They get rid of officers who demonstrate excessive force BEFORE they can cause harm or death to others. And, when they do, they are generally captured on video because more and more police depts. use body cams and because of video cameras everywhere today. When someone dies at the hands of police, it is always in the news. And, it is not always the fault of the police officer.

You try to find a story of someone who died at the hand of police in the last 5-10 years that was NOT captured on video. It is a rare occurrence.

During the 2019 arrest of Elijah McClain, a Black man who died after officers confronted him in suburban Denver, the body cameras of all three officers came off during a struggle. The cameras continued to record audio but there was no video footage to verify a police claim that McClain reached for one of the officers' guns. He was placed in a chokehold and paramedics injected him with the powerful sedative ketamine. He later died at a hospital.

There are so many examples that I really can’t believe that you actually thought you made a valid point. You’re just making up your own narrative without any critical thinking.

And, once again.... these types of incidents are extremely rare.
They are always reported. The vast majority of them are on video. And, not all of them are the fault of the police officers.
Nothing I have said is untrue or a made up narrative.

They are not that rare. 1 out of 100 is not rare by any bodies measurement.

Where in the hell are you getting your stats? 1 in 100 of WHAT? Citation needed.

It’s in the thread, someone posted it. FBI statistics show 99/100 interactions with people don’t use force. It’s a silly statistic to quote.

Could you imagine such a low bar.

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Anonymous wrote:It’s on Vimeo. The cops came in hot. Not sure if he didn’t pull over immediately but they were clearly angry and dragged him from the car. He was calm and trying to talk to them. He got scared and ran. They got angry that they had to chase him. Looks like one cop maybe got sprayed in his eye.

They find him and kick him in the head multiple times. They hold him while others near him.

How can anyone feel safe around police no matter your color or their color? These men beat him to death.

I’m so heartbroken for his family. I can’t imagine dying like that. Feeling so helpless and terrified.

So sickening.

Being enraged to riot is understandable but it’s not the cops who will suffer.

I know the job messes with your head.

I wish we weren’t such a violent country/culture.

What a $hitty world we’ve created for our children.

There's something really wrong with many, many, many men. They have these fragile little egos and when something doesn't go their way, they react to an insane level. Is it right to run from a cop? No, but it should never be a death sentence or result in straight up violence.

I generally advocate for doing what cops say and dealing with any wring doing in court. But after watching the video, how hot they came in, dragging him from the car, screaming and oepoer spraying him while he tried to de-escalate...at a certain point, if I think my life is in danger, I'm going to try to get away. I can't really blame him for that. Maybe they killed him because he ran, but Tyre ran because he thought they were going to kill him. And they did.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

Great strategy! Fight the police because they will kill you if you don't. ha

I mean he could have laid there and let them suffocate him against the ground or beat him to death on the spot. I’d at least give myself the chance to live by running. He’s seen all the same videos and court cases of these scenarios to know, he’s likely going to die. I mean hell at this point being in your home and eating ice cream or sleeping can get you killed by cops with zero liability from the cops. Reckless driving/DUI does not justify beating a person to death, but I guess if you are black that’s the reason it is. He pulled over and stopped for Christ sake.

+1. Tyre Nichols did not die because he failed to follow directions. He died because these pigs wanted to kill him. That’s it.

Cops murder people all the time who comply with their directions.

You think this never happens? A cop in Florida shot a Black behavioral therapist who was complying when the autistic boy who was supposed to comply wasn’t. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna745716

Nobody said that. It rarely happens. Do you realize that you aren't privy to what over a million police officers do on a daily basis? You only know what pops up on your phone, and that's a big difference.

DP. You think the fact that not every cop brutalizes people excuses the ones who do? WTF is wrong with you?

DP. Nowhere in the PP’s post did they say that the officers should be excused for their behavior. Nothing is wrong with that PP. They simply posted that incidents are actually rare, despite what social media shows. Statistics prove this. Over 99% of police interactions (per FBI statistics) involve no use of force. That doesn’t mean there aren’t horrific uses of force, but it does demonstrate that this is rare. Of the uses of force that do occur, most are deemed justified. (Keep in mind that merely putting on handcuffs can be a use of force.)

I’m sure the PP would appreciate if you don’t jump to conclusions.

I would suggest you go back and reread the exchange, because pp absolutely was trying to deflect from the brutality of Nichols’ murder by citing to the fact that not all cops do this.

Are you suggesting that all cops do this? Really?
The PP said nothing wrong.

One bad apple spoils the bunch, and there is a lot more than one bad apple in the police forces in the United States.

This is a stupid view. There are bad apples in every single profession. Should we just get rid of everything?

DP

Agree - we should not throw the baby out with the dirty bath water. We need to invest much more in police training … they have a difficult and risky but important job.

Do you know what happens if you as a cop intervene and stop your fellow officers once they start abusing a person? The officer just put a target on his back. He’s now an officer who can’t be trusted. At any time he can be hung out to dry, left on an island when he’s supposed to have backup.

When you’re an officer, you’re a member of the gang. What happens when a gang member turns on his gang? Exactly.

And if cops cannot police themselves, then they have to be policed by third parties. (So to speak.)

Take away qualified immunity. Not turning on body cam means you lose your job and pension. If we don't have enough candidates with this kind of oversight, then shift tasks (spend funding on medical/social work crisis response teams and not military weapons for the police department; separate traffic enforcement from regular police force, etc). Offer different incentives.

I don't care how many nie guys you know as cops. This isn't working. American police cannot be trusted to police themselves. Other developed countries don't have this problem. Whatever they are doing needs to be started here, because we are failing. We are killing our own citizens.

That's really not true. The police chief immediately fired all five of these guys and the state brought charges against them. The system is working as it should.

Other developed countries don't have this problem because they have a much higher police-to-citizen ratio and they don't have the most heavily armed civilian population in the world.

Take away cops (which is de facto happening now as police forces shrink) and you replace it with vigilante justice. Because America's underlying violence problem isn't just police. It's all of us.

This!

Taking away qualified immunity is not something that will help. At all.
Qualified immunity does NOT protect LE when they break the law.... like they did here.

These 5 officers not only brought shame to themselves - they have also put another black eye on LE everywhere.

The actions these officers took are not representative of 95%+ of officers we have. LE have thousands of encounters with the public every day that end as routine encounters.
Please don't allow yourself to believe that this horrific incident is representative of most LE.

Why is it that the systems you praise only "works" if there is some kind of video of it? Are all cops stupid enough to only commit acts like this in the vicinity of a pole camera that captures it on video? That would be pretty dumb. They certainly aren't turning in each other when there isn't video, though.

Maybe it's the cameras that work, not the self-policing.

Why is it that you won't acknowledge the thousands of police encounters that end routinely? Why can you not admit that the majority of the thousands of police officers that protect the public every day would never resort to this?

Oh, I'll absolutely acknowledge that, all of it. And I still hold that what we have set up as a system is not good enough, because it is not working, and it's ONLY when there is video that this is coming to light, because it's the cameras that work -- not the self-policing.

Will you join me and acknowledge that?

Different poster, but it's not "only" working when it comes to light. Most complaints against cops are filed by other cops. You just don't hear about it because it's handled by the department as would any other employment related complaint. Police get fired for misconduct and you never hear about it.

Video, on the other hand, makes cheap easy news for our media. Don't take it as representing the entire universe of police conduct or misconduct. Because it's not.

I'm talking about beatdowns like this. Extreme violence, not questionably maybe a little too much stuff.

Do you really think incidents like this, Rodney King, George Floyd. etc., ONLY happen to occur when there is video of it? Shouldn't there be at least a couple such hyperviolent episode that was solely addressed because of colleague report and no video evidence?

Or is there an account of this? I am assuming that if a police officer was found to have killed an innocent person in a violent way, there would be at least one newspaper article in the local paper about it. What am I missing here? (I really, honestly hope you are going to post links to a couple of stories online, because I would actually like to be wrong about this.)

IU am not the pp, but will provide at least one incident that doesn't appear to be on video....

https://www.thestate.com/news/local/crime/article270987052.html

I know there are more, but I am not going to search for them. I would also point out that many, if not most, encounters with police today are captured on camera - either because of body cams or because of cameras everywhere on the streets. Just do a search for "police fired for excessive force" and you will see that it happens.....and video isn't always available.

I will also point out that any occupation has bad apples - health care, teaching, lawyers, etc. You just hear about the police officers more because of viral videos.

Right, that guy did not end up needing medical intervention. He was medically cleared and put in detention.

I am talking about true violence -- beatdowns, the stuff that goes well beyond the pale. Not a guy that ends up being cleared by doctors as perfectly stable to be left alone in a cell.

Despite what you believe, these kinds of incidents happen rarely in today's word, thankfully. This is because police DO police themselves. They get rid of officers who demonstrate excessive force BEFORE they can cause harm or death to others. And, when they do, they are generally captured on video because more and more police depts. use body cams and because of video cameras everywhere today. When someone dies at the hands of police, it is always in the news. And, it is not always the fault of the police officer.

You try to find a story of someone who died at the hand of police in the last 5-10 years that was NOT captured on video. It is a rare occurrence.

During the 2019 arrest of Elijah McClain, a Black man who died after officers confronted him in suburban Denver, the body cameras of all three officers came off during a struggle. The cameras continued to record audio but there was no video footage to verify a police claim that McClain reached for one of the officers' guns. He was placed in a chokehold and paramedics injected him with the powerful sedative ketamine. He later died at a hospital.

There are so many examples that I really can’t believe that you actually thought you made a valid point. You’re just making up your own narrative without any critical thinking.

And, once again.... these types of incidents are extremely rare.
They are always reported. The vast majority of them are on video. And, not all of them are the fault of the police officers.
Nothing I have said is untrue or a made up narrative.

The bolded is false. Demonstrably false.