Anonymous
04/12/2022 14:26
Subject: U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts on Friday called for a response from a Virginia school
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The appeals hasn’t even ruled yet. No way the Supreme Court takes this stupid case.
This!
Well I think the SC is taking the question of whether they can do the admissions policy for this year while they sort out the whole thing through the courts, right?
Wednesday is April 13. It's way too late already, despite what the dissent said. Maybe they are on to next year's incoming class?
They can do a lottery very quickly. If they really want to tweak coalition for TJ, they can automatically enter every rising freshman in the county and create a waitlist for those who decline.
Keep dreaming.
my dream would be for them to just close the school
That's obvious, hon.
Sorry.
It gets closer every day. A school that becomes a right wing darling reliant on a very left wing school board is not long for this world.
Makes me sad, but here we are.
DP, but I would rather have them close the school than see FCPS spend so much time, money, and attention litigation over the composition of a single high school.
It's obscene that FCPS has over 200 schools and one school commands so much focus because the School Board was so clumsy and inartful when it decided to change the admissions process. Enough already.
They could have chosen to done things differently. Instead of implementing racist policies, they could have responded with more outreach and educational resources at schools that serve URM student population. Instead by went full racist, completely unbashful about their intentions, unreceptive to feedback and criticism from parents. They chose to make this into a big issue because they wanted the glory of remaking what is the top high school in the entire United States. They wanted that badge of honor on their progressive resume, a crowning achievement of performative intersectional justice for diversity, equity, and inclusion. It's no surprise then that they dedicated their resources towards this cause. The level of effort they have expended to defend their racist practice shows you just how much they have invested in this endeavor.
No one asked the school board to be racist. They just couldn't help it. They decided to do this themselves, with no one else to blame.
I agree with you but it does reach a point where it's time to just put an end to the bickering. Let TJ return to use as a neighborhood school or have it serve as a full-time Academy program offering specialized, challenging courses available only at TJ to students who attend their base schools for their other classes, but both sides need to realize how they are degrading FCPS by allowing so much attention to be focused on a single school to the exclusion of other schools.
The Coalition for TJ and the TJAAG are both full of preening narcissists equally wedded to their own visions of what TJ should be (and completely disinterested in the other 97% of FCPS kids). And this ridiculous, utterly incompetent School Board that set the stage for this to happen needs to be sent packing next year - every last one of them.
I don't see why that's the preferable outcome versus having TJ continue to be a school where applicants are evaluated based on merit against standardized assessments. Sure there are preening narcissists, but just because a preening narcissist likes the taste of a banana, doesn't change the fact that bananas are delicious and healthy. There is a place in our society for merit-based identification and advancement of young scholars. There may be other goals that we as a society want to achieve and we can have those as additional programs. Let TJ remain doing what it has done so well as to earn the top rank among the nation's high schools.
Please outline the path for that to happen expeditiously and in a manner that, you know, actually allows the idiots on this School Board to pay some attention to the other 97% of kids in FCPS.
It's not my job to outline that path. I'm merely defending that TJ should stay on its prior non-racist path that caused it to become the #1 HS in the US. That the other problems are difficult is no excuse to implement racist policies for TJ. Any time the board spent fiddling with TJ could have been used for the other 97% of FCPS kids instead.
But your “mere defense” leaves the earlier point - which is that TJ admissions has become an unproductive waste of FCPS time, energy, and resources that harms other school communities - wholly unaddressed. It’s apparently time to wind it down or change TJ to a less controversial Academy program.
IMO, a less wasteful, but still selective method would be to take X% of the highest GPA from each school (because opportunities and options vary by school), and choose from among them by lottery. If they want to be a bit more selective, have like 3 letters of support submitted by 2 STEM/1 non-STEM teacher, and use that as guidance. Parents/kids can opt out if they don't want to be submitted for consideration.
I still don't see the justification as to why the original TJ policy needed to be changed. The underrepresentation of blacks/Latinos is caused by a resource gap and not a learning ability gap, so the solution is to increase resources rather than use some method to lower the entrance standard. We combat covid by delivering shots in arms, not by cherry picking who we test to get the desired infection rate.
That's been tried for decades with no results, but people who support that status quo love it because it pushes any changes down the road a few more years.
Failure at something is no excuse to engage in racist behaviors.
Of course, we just need a new plan that will take years to judge, and then a new plan after that, and maybe a few more. In the meantime, TJ can remain unsullied by poor kids
Now you are just giving up all pretense of being rational and logical, and appealing to emotion instead. Go ahead and wallow in your sorrow. Sad face.
When people are screaming that a school going form 75% to 55% of a population that comprises 20% of students is racist, logic is out the window.
You don’t get it, do you? Ends don’t justify the means - not in modern societies.
The process to get from 75% to 55% has to be above reproach. The FCPS process is not. And needs to be done away even if it yields a class that exactly represents the demographics of the county. If you don’t understand that and are stuck on the outcome then you don’t understand the issue that is being litigated.
Every day that goes by without the current admissions process being affirmed is one step closer to the Class of 2026 being selected by lottery. It would be wise for FCPS to make it known that this is their intent if the Supreme Court vacates the Fourth Circuit stay.
Any further action by the current board *except* for restoring original TJ process will be tainted with racist intent and challenged in court.
It does seem a little ironic that thus coalition for TJ demanding that the majority of the TJ spots go to one group in the name of fairness.
That's not what they are arguing for at all. You are just making stuff up. The coalition is asking for a non-racist admissions policy and let the student demographics be what they are as a result of natural competition.
"Natural competition" that is significantly aided - unquestionably - by parents leveraging their resources as heavily as possible to put their thumbs on the scales.
Why is it a problem for parents to provide resources to their children? Isn't this the entire goal of being a parent, to provide resources to children? Why should children with resources be penalized?
Why should they be rewarded for their parents' resources?
Why should they be penalized?
How is ignoring the benefits of the resources penalizing them?
Ignoring the benefit of resources was the status quo. The board is giving preference to kids with less resources, thus penalizing kids with resources.
The status quo was rewarding the resume padding and prepping
Still not a justification to penalize kids for having parents that provide resources for them.
It's a reason to discount their effects
You are going to have to provide a rational justification for that counter-intuitive thought. Given that human civilization progression has been one where children do better than their parents by leveraging the additional resources provided by their parents, it's natural and logical to not penalize children for the resources they receive from their parents.
DP but I'll jump in here. The previous admissions process provided an enormous advantage to parents who prioritized crafting their kid's childhood completely around TJ admissions from a very young age.
What that means is that students who didn't have the good fortune to be born into a family with parents who prioritized TJ were penalized for the circumstances of their birth in the admissions process.
Reducing or eliminating that advantage is not penalizing those students who had the good fortune to be born into a family that prioritizes educational prestige.
If you're so worried about countering these advantages, then trying to build a better TJ admissions mousetrap is an awfully noisy way to try and address them.
Ultimately, it does more to negate the benefits of growing up under favorable circumstances than it does to avoid the costs of growing up under unfavorable ones.
But it makes some people feel like they've stuck it to the Asian parents who prioritized education, so here we are.
The county did build a better mouse trap that worked as advertised. If anything, this version was a compromise. A lottery will equalize things even more, but the people upset with this system will be enraged even more by that move.
Anonymous
04/12/2022 14:25
Subject: U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts on Friday called for a response from a Virginia school
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The appeals hasn’t even ruled yet. No way the Supreme Court takes this stupid case.
This!
Well I think the SC is taking the question of whether they can do the admissions policy for this year while they sort out the whole thing through the courts, right?
Wednesday is April 13. It's way too late already, despite what the dissent said. Maybe they are on to next year's incoming class?
They can do a lottery very quickly. If they really want to tweak coalition for TJ, they can automatically enter every rising freshman in the county and create a waitlist for those who decline.
Keep dreaming.
my dream would be for them to just close the school
That's obvious, hon.
Sorry.
It gets closer every day. A school that becomes a right wing darling reliant on a very left wing school board is not long for this world.
Makes me sad, but here we are.
DP, but I would rather have them close the school than see FCPS spend so much time, money, and attention litigation over the composition of a single high school.
It's obscene that FCPS has over 200 schools and one school commands so much focus because the School Board was so clumsy and inartful when it decided to change the admissions process. Enough already.
They could have chosen to done things differently. Instead of implementing racist policies, they could have responded with more outreach and educational resources at schools that serve URM student population. Instead by went full racist, completely unbashful about their intentions, unreceptive to feedback and criticism from parents. They chose to make this into a big issue because they wanted the glory of remaking what is the top high school in the entire United States. They wanted that badge of honor on their progressive resume, a crowning achievement of performative intersectional justice for diversity, equity, and inclusion. It's no surprise then that they dedicated their resources towards this cause. The level of effort they have expended to defend their racist practice shows you just how much they have invested in this endeavor.
No one asked the school board to be racist. They just couldn't help it. They decided to do this themselves, with no one else to blame.
I agree with you but it does reach a point where it's time to just put an end to the bickering. Let TJ return to use as a neighborhood school or have it serve as a full-time Academy program offering specialized, challenging courses available only at TJ to students who attend their base schools for their other classes, but both sides need to realize how they are degrading FCPS by allowing so much attention to be focused on a single school to the exclusion of other schools.
The Coalition for TJ and the TJAAG are both full of preening narcissists equally wedded to their own visions of what TJ should be (and completely disinterested in the other 97% of FCPS kids). And this ridiculous, utterly incompetent School Board that set the stage for this to happen needs to be sent packing next year - every last one of them.
I don't see why that's the preferable outcome versus having TJ continue to be a school where applicants are evaluated based on merit against standardized assessments. Sure there are preening narcissists, but just because a preening narcissist likes the taste of a banana, doesn't change the fact that bananas are delicious and healthy. There is a place in our society for merit-based identification and advancement of young scholars. There may be other goals that we as a society want to achieve and we can have those as additional programs. Let TJ remain doing what it has done so well as to earn the top rank among the nation's high schools.
Please outline the path for that to happen expeditiously and in a manner that, you know, actually allows the idiots on this School Board to pay some attention to the other 97% of kids in FCPS.
It's not my job to outline that path. I'm merely defending that TJ should stay on its prior non-racist path that caused it to become the #1 HS in the US. That the other problems are difficult is no excuse to implement racist policies for TJ. Any time the board spent fiddling with TJ could have been used for the other 97% of FCPS kids instead.
But your “mere defense” leaves the earlier point - which is that TJ admissions has become an unproductive waste of FCPS time, energy, and resources that harms other school communities - wholly unaddressed. It’s apparently time to wind it down or change TJ to a less controversial Academy program.
IMO, a less wasteful, but still selective method would be to take X% of the highest GPA from each school (because opportunities and options vary by school), and choose from among them by lottery. If they want to be a bit more selective, have like 3 letters of support submitted by 2 STEM/1 non-STEM teacher, and use that as guidance. Parents/kids can opt out if they don't want to be submitted for consideration.
I still don't see the justification as to why the original TJ policy needed to be changed. The underrepresentation of blacks/Latinos is caused by a resource gap and not a learning ability gap, so the solution is to increase resources rather than use some method to lower the entrance standard. We combat covid by delivering shots in arms, not by cherry picking who we test to get the desired infection rate.
That's been tried for decades with no results, but people who support that status quo love it because it pushes any changes down the road a few more years.
Failure at something is no excuse to engage in racist behaviors.
Of course, we just need a new plan that will take years to judge, and then a new plan after that, and maybe a few more. In the meantime, TJ can remain unsullied by poor kids
Now you are just giving up all pretense of being rational and logical, and appealing to emotion instead. Go ahead and wallow in your sorrow. Sad face.
When people are screaming that a school going form 75% to 55% of a population that comprises 20% of students is racist, logic is out the window.
You don’t get it, do you? Ends don’t justify the means - not in modern societies.
The process to get from 75% to 55% has to be above reproach. The FCPS process is not. And needs to be done away even if it yields a class that exactly represents the demographics of the county. If you don’t understand that and are stuck on the outcome then you don’t understand the issue that is being litigated.
Every day that goes by without the current admissions process being affirmed is one step closer to the Class of 2026 being selected by lottery. It would be wise for FCPS to make it known that this is their intent if the Supreme Court vacates the Fourth Circuit stay.
Any further action by the current board *except* for restoring original TJ process will be tainted with racist intent and challenged in court.
It does seem a little ironic that thus coalition for TJ demanding that the majority of the TJ spots go to one group in the name of fairness.
That's not what they are arguing for at all. You are just making stuff up. The coalition is asking for a non-racist admissions policy and let the student demographics be what they are as a result of natural competition.
"Natural competition" that is significantly aided - unquestionably - by parents leveraging their resources as heavily as possible to put their thumbs on the scales.
Why is it a problem for parents to provide resources to their children? Isn't this the entire goal of being a parent, to provide resources to children? Why should children with resources be penalized?
They can provide all of the resources in the world to their children. They just shouldn't expect increased access to taxpayer-funded educational opportunities as a consequence.
I am not sure how you are defining "increased access" in your mind, but if the access is based on open competition of merit, then all is fair.
"Increased access" would involve supporting an admissions process that resulted in less than one percent of admitted students coming from economically disadvantaged backgrounds....
.... against the backdrop of a ubiquitous nine-figure TJ prep complex that costs thousands of dollars for entry and claims overwhelmingly effective results.
That's circular logic. You are criticizing an application process for providing "increased access" to Asians and using the result of the process as the proof of so-called increased access. You, too, would have only been accepted into TJ based on "experience factors".
Nope. My point is not about the previous process providing increased access to Asians. It's about the previous process providing increased access to families that had the resources and motivation to mold their children's entire childhood around the TJ admissions process.
There isn't anything circular about my logic. The application fee was a problem. The exam that worked well for a year until the prep companies caught up to it was a problem. And the results were in the numbers.
On what objective and legally defensible basis you make the argument “ It's about the previous process providing increased access to families that had the resources and motivation to mold their children's entire childhood around the TJ admissions process.”. You would never make tag sweeping statement on hearsay, would you? And we dongg TJ stereotype, do we?
Anonymous
04/12/2022 14:25
Subject: U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts on Friday called for a response from a Virginia school
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The appeals hasn’t even ruled yet. No way the Supreme Court takes this stupid case.
This!
Well I think the SC is taking the question of whether they can do the admissions policy for this year while they sort out the whole thing through the courts, right?
Wednesday is April 13. It's way too late already, despite what the dissent said. Maybe they are on to next year's incoming class?
They can do a lottery very quickly. If they really want to tweak coalition for TJ, they can automatically enter every rising freshman in the county and create a waitlist for those who decline.
Keep dreaming.
my dream would be for them to just close the school
That's obvious, hon.
Sorry.
It gets closer every day. A school that becomes a right wing darling reliant on a very left wing school board is not long for this world.
Makes me sad, but here we are.
DP, but I would rather have them close the school than see FCPS spend so much time, money, and attention litigation over the composition of a single high school.
It's obscene that FCPS has over 200 schools and one school commands so much focus because the School Board was so clumsy and inartful when it decided to change the admissions process. Enough already.
They could have chosen to done things differently. Instead of implementing racist policies, they could have responded with more outreach and educational resources at schools that serve URM student population. Instead by went full racist, completely unbashful about their intentions, unreceptive to feedback and criticism from parents. They chose to make this into a big issue because they wanted the glory of remaking what is the top high school in the entire United States. They wanted that badge of honor on their progressive resume, a crowning achievement of performative intersectional justice for diversity, equity, and inclusion. It's no surprise then that they dedicated their resources towards this cause. The level of effort they have expended to defend their racist practice shows you just how much they have invested in this endeavor.
No one asked the school board to be racist. They just couldn't help it. They decided to do this themselves, with no one else to blame.
I agree with you but it does reach a point where it's time to just put an end to the bickering. Let TJ return to use as a neighborhood school or have it serve as a full-time Academy program offering specialized, challenging courses available only at TJ to students who attend their base schools for their other classes, but both sides need to realize how they are degrading FCPS by allowing so much attention to be focused on a single school to the exclusion of other schools.
The Coalition for TJ and the TJAAG are both full of preening narcissists equally wedded to their own visions of what TJ should be (and completely disinterested in the other 97% of FCPS kids). And this ridiculous, utterly incompetent School Board that set the stage for this to happen needs to be sent packing next year - every last one of them.
I don't see why that's the preferable outcome versus having TJ continue to be a school where applicants are evaluated based on merit against standardized assessments. Sure there are preening narcissists, but just because a preening narcissist likes the taste of a banana, doesn't change the fact that bananas are delicious and healthy. There is a place in our society for merit-based identification and advancement of young scholars. There may be other goals that we as a society want to achieve and we can have those as additional programs. Let TJ remain doing what it has done so well as to earn the top rank among the nation's high schools.
Please outline the path for that to happen expeditiously and in a manner that, you know, actually allows the idiots on this School Board to pay some attention to the other 97% of kids in FCPS.
It's not my job to outline that path. I'm merely defending that TJ should stay on its prior non-racist path that caused it to become the #1 HS in the US. That the other problems are difficult is no excuse to implement racist policies for TJ. Any time the board spent fiddling with TJ could have been used for the other 97% of FCPS kids instead.
But your “mere defense” leaves the earlier point - which is that TJ admissions has become an unproductive waste of FCPS time, energy, and resources that harms other school communities - wholly unaddressed. It’s apparently time to wind it down or change TJ to a less controversial Academy program.
IMO, a less wasteful, but still selective method would be to take X% of the highest GPA from each school (because opportunities and options vary by school), and choose from among them by lottery. If they want to be a bit more selective, have like 3 letters of support submitted by 2 STEM/1 non-STEM teacher, and use that as guidance. Parents/kids can opt out if they don't want to be submitted for consideration.
I still don't see the justification as to why the original TJ policy needed to be changed. The underrepresentation of blacks/Latinos is caused by a resource gap and not a learning ability gap, so the solution is to increase resources rather than use some method to lower the entrance standard. We combat covid by delivering shots in arms, not by cherry picking who we test to get the desired infection rate.
That's been tried for decades with no results, but people who support that status quo love it because it pushes any changes down the road a few more years.
Failure at something is no excuse to engage in racist behaviors.
Of course, we just need a new plan that will take years to judge, and then a new plan after that, and maybe a few more. In the meantime, TJ can remain unsullied by poor kids
Now you are just giving up all pretense of being rational and logical, and appealing to emotion instead. Go ahead and wallow in your sorrow. Sad face.
When people are screaming that a school going form 75% to 55% of a population that comprises 20% of students is racist, logic is out the window.
You don’t get it, do you? Ends don’t justify the means - not in modern societies.
The process to get from 75% to 55% has to be above reproach. The FCPS process is not. And needs to be done away even if it yields a class that exactly represents the demographics of the county. If you don’t understand that and are stuck on the outcome then you don’t understand the issue that is being litigated.
Every day that goes by without the current admissions process being affirmed is one step closer to the Class of 2026 being selected by lottery. It would be wise for FCPS to make it known that this is their intent if the Supreme Court vacates the Fourth Circuit stay.
Any further action by the current board *except* for restoring original TJ process will be tainted with racist intent and challenged in court.
It does seem a little ironic that thus coalition for TJ demanding that the majority of the TJ spots go to one group in the name of fairness.
That's not what they are arguing for at all. You are just making stuff up. The coalition is asking for a non-racist admissions policy and let the student demographics be what they are as a result of natural competition.
"Natural competition" that is significantly aided - unquestionably - by parents leveraging their resources as heavily as possible to put their thumbs on the scales.
Why is it a problem for parents to provide resources to their children? Isn't this the entire goal of being a parent, to provide resources to children? Why should children with resources be penalized?
Why should they be rewarded for their parents' resources?
Why should they be penalized?
How is ignoring the benefits of the resources penalizing them?
Ignoring the benefit of resources was the status quo. The board is giving preference to kids with less resources, thus penalizing kids with resources.
The status quo was rewarding the resume padding and prepping
Still not a justification to penalize kids for having parents that provide resources for them.
It's a reason to discount their effects
You are going to have to provide a rational justification for that counter-intuitive thought. Given that human civilization progression has been one where children do better than their parents by leveraging the additional resources provided by their parents, it's natural and logical to not penalize children for the resources they receive from their parents.
DP but I'll jump in here. The previous admissions process provided an enormous advantage to parents who prioritized crafting their kid's childhood completely around TJ admissions from a very young age.
What that means is that students who didn't have the good fortune to be born into a family with parents who prioritized TJ were penalized for the circumstances of their birth in the admissions process.
Reducing or eliminating that advantage is not penalizing those students who had the good fortune to be born into a family that prioritizes educational prestige.
I don't see how you can type that non ironically. How is "reducing" and "eliminating" not "penalizing"?
Because we're talking about an unearned advantage. Reducing these advantages is more or less akin to forcing all runners to start a race from the same point, rather than continuing to allow some kids to start the race 50 yards ahead because their parents put them there.
+1000 excellent point. The old admissions process granted huge advantages to kids who knew what types of questions were going to be on the exam and who had participated in the STEM activities that were deemed appropriate by the admissions office.
Anonymous
04/12/2022 14:23
Subject: U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts on Friday called for a response from a Virginia school
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The appeals hasn’t even ruled yet. No way the Supreme Court takes this stupid case.
This!
Well I think the SC is taking the question of whether they can do the admissions policy for this year while they sort out the whole thing through the courts, right?
Wednesday is April 13. It's way too late already, despite what the dissent said. Maybe they are on to next year's incoming class?
They can do a lottery very quickly. If they really want to tweak coalition for TJ, they can automatically enter every rising freshman in the county and create a waitlist for those who decline.
Keep dreaming.
my dream would be for them to just close the school
That's obvious, hon.
Sorry.
It gets closer every day. A school that becomes a right wing darling reliant on a very left wing school board is not long for this world.
Makes me sad, but here we are.
DP, but I would rather have them close the school than see FCPS spend so much time, money, and attention litigation over the composition of a single high school.
It's obscene that FCPS has over 200 schools and one school commands so much focus because the School Board was so clumsy and inartful when it decided to change the admissions process. Enough already.
They could have chosen to done things differently. Instead of implementing racist policies, they could have responded with more outreach and educational resources at schools that serve URM student population. Instead by went full racist, completely unbashful about their intentions, unreceptive to feedback and criticism from parents. They chose to make this into a big issue because they wanted the glory of remaking what is the top high school in the entire United States. They wanted that badge of honor on their progressive resume, a crowning achievement of performative intersectional justice for diversity, equity, and inclusion. It's no surprise then that they dedicated their resources towards this cause. The level of effort they have expended to defend their racist practice shows you just how much they have invested in this endeavor.
No one asked the school board to be racist. They just couldn't help it. They decided to do this themselves, with no one else to blame.
I agree with you but it does reach a point where it's time to just put an end to the bickering. Let TJ return to use as a neighborhood school or have it serve as a full-time Academy program offering specialized, challenging courses available only at TJ to students who attend their base schools for their other classes, but both sides need to realize how they are degrading FCPS by allowing so much attention to be focused on a single school to the exclusion of other schools.
The Coalition for TJ and the TJAAG are both full of preening narcissists equally wedded to their own visions of what TJ should be (and completely disinterested in the other 97% of FCPS kids). And this ridiculous, utterly incompetent School Board that set the stage for this to happen needs to be sent packing next year - every last one of them.
I don't see why that's the preferable outcome versus having TJ continue to be a school where applicants are evaluated based on merit against standardized assessments. Sure there are preening narcissists, but just because a preening narcissist likes the taste of a banana, doesn't change the fact that bananas are delicious and healthy. There is a place in our society for merit-based identification and advancement of young scholars. There may be other goals that we as a society want to achieve and we can have those as additional programs. Let TJ remain doing what it has done so well as to earn the top rank among the nation's high schools.
Please outline the path for that to happen expeditiously and in a manner that, you know, actually allows the idiots on this School Board to pay some attention to the other 97% of kids in FCPS.
It's not my job to outline that path. I'm merely defending that TJ should stay on its prior non-racist path that caused it to become the #1 HS in the US. That the other problems are difficult is no excuse to implement racist policies for TJ. Any time the board spent fiddling with TJ could have been used for the other 97% of FCPS kids instead.
But your “mere defense” leaves the earlier point - which is that TJ admissions has become an unproductive waste of FCPS time, energy, and resources that harms other school communities - wholly unaddressed. It’s apparently time to wind it down or change TJ to a less controversial Academy program.
IMO, a less wasteful, but still selective method would be to take X% of the highest GPA from each school (because opportunities and options vary by school), and choose from among them by lottery. If they want to be a bit more selective, have like 3 letters of support submitted by 2 STEM/1 non-STEM teacher, and use that as guidance. Parents/kids can opt out if they don't want to be submitted for consideration.
I still don't see the justification as to why the original TJ policy needed to be changed. The underrepresentation of blacks/Latinos is caused by a resource gap and not a learning ability gap, so the solution is to increase resources rather than use some method to lower the entrance standard. We combat covid by delivering shots in arms, not by cherry picking who we test to get the desired infection rate.
That's been tried for decades with no results, but people who support that status quo love it because it pushes any changes down the road a few more years.
Failure at something is no excuse to engage in racist behaviors.
Of course, we just need a new plan that will take years to judge, and then a new plan after that, and maybe a few more. In the meantime, TJ can remain unsullied by poor kids
Now you are just giving up all pretense of being rational and logical, and appealing to emotion instead. Go ahead and wallow in your sorrow. Sad face.
When people are screaming that a school going form 75% to 55% of a population that comprises 20% of students is racist, logic is out the window.
You don’t get it, do you? Ends don’t justify the means - not in modern societies.
The process to get from 75% to 55% has to be above reproach. The FCPS process is not. And needs to be done away even if it yields a class that exactly represents the demographics of the county. If you don’t understand that and are stuck on the outcome then you don’t understand the issue that is being litigated.
Every day that goes by without the current admissions process being affirmed is one step closer to the Class of 2026 being selected by lottery. It would be wise for FCPS to make it known that this is their intent if the Supreme Court vacates the Fourth Circuit stay.
Any further action by the current board *except* for restoring original TJ process will be tainted with racist intent and challenged in court.
It does seem a little ironic that thus coalition for TJ demanding that the majority of the TJ spots go to one group in the name of fairness.
That's not what they are arguing for at all. You are just making stuff up. The coalition is asking for a non-racist admissions policy and let the student demographics be what they are as a result of natural competition.
"Natural competition" that is significantly aided - unquestionably - by parents leveraging their resources as heavily as possible to put their thumbs on the scales.
Why is it a problem for parents to provide resources to their children? Isn't this the entire goal of being a parent, to provide resources to children? Why should children with resources be penalized?
Why should they be rewarded for their parents' resources?
Why should they be penalized?
How is ignoring the benefits of the resources penalizing them?
Ignoring the benefit of resources was the status quo. The board is giving preference to kids with less resources, thus penalizing kids with resources.
The status quo was rewarding the resume padding and prepping
Still not a justification to penalize kids for having parents that provide resources for them.
It's a reason to discount their effects
You are going to have to provide a rational justification for that counter-intuitive thought. Given that human civilization progression has been one where children do better than their parents by leveraging the additional resources provided by their parents, it's natural and logical to not penalize children for the resources they receive from their parents.
DP but I'll jump in here. The previous admissions process provided an enormous advantage to parents who prioritized crafting their kid's childhood completely around TJ admissions from a very young age.
What that means is that students who didn't have the good fortune to be born into a family with parents who prioritized TJ were penalized for the circumstances of their birth in the admissions process.
Reducing or eliminating that advantage is not penalizing those students who had the good fortune to be born into a family that prioritizes educational prestige.
If you're so worried about countering these advantages, then trying to build a better TJ admissions mousetrap is an awfully noisy way to try and address them.
Ultimately, it does more to negate the benefits of growing up under favorable circumstances than it does to avoid the costs of growing up under unfavorable ones.
But it makes some people feel like they've stuck it to the Asian parents who prioritized education, so here we are.
Anonymous
04/12/2022 14:23
Subject: U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts on Friday called for a response from a Virginia school
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The appeals hasn’t even ruled yet. No way the Supreme Court takes this stupid case.
This!
Well I think the SC is taking the question of whether they can do the admissions policy for this year while they sort out the whole thing through the courts, right?
Wednesday is April 13. It's way too late already, despite what the dissent said. Maybe they are on to next year's incoming class?
They can do a lottery very quickly. If they really want to tweak coalition for TJ, they can automatically enter every rising freshman in the county and create a waitlist for those who decline.
Keep dreaming.
my dream would be for them to just close the school
That's obvious, hon.
Sorry.
It gets closer every day. A school that becomes a right wing darling reliant on a very left wing school board is not long for this world.
Makes me sad, but here we are.
DP, but I would rather have them close the school than see FCPS spend so much time, money, and attention litigation over the composition of a single high school.
It's obscene that FCPS has over 200 schools and one school commands so much focus because the School Board was so clumsy and inartful when it decided to change the admissions process. Enough already.
They could have chosen to done things differently. Instead of implementing racist policies, they could have responded with more outreach and educational resources at schools that serve URM student population. Instead by went full racist, completely unbashful about their intentions, unreceptive to feedback and criticism from parents. They chose to make this into a big issue because they wanted the glory of remaking what is the top high school in the entire United States. They wanted that badge of honor on their progressive resume, a crowning achievement of performative intersectional justice for diversity, equity, and inclusion. It's no surprise then that they dedicated their resources towards this cause. The level of effort they have expended to defend their racist practice shows you just how much they have invested in this endeavor.
No one asked the school board to be racist. They just couldn't help it. They decided to do this themselves, with no one else to blame.
I agree with you but it does reach a point where it's time to just put an end to the bickering. Let TJ return to use as a neighborhood school or have it serve as a full-time Academy program offering specialized, challenging courses available only at TJ to students who attend their base schools for their other classes, but both sides need to realize how they are degrading FCPS by allowing so much attention to be focused on a single school to the exclusion of other schools.
The Coalition for TJ and the TJAAG are both full of preening narcissists equally wedded to their own visions of what TJ should be (and completely disinterested in the other 97% of FCPS kids). And this ridiculous, utterly incompetent School Board that set the stage for this to happen needs to be sent packing next year - every last one of them.
I don't see why that's the preferable outcome versus having TJ continue to be a school where applicants are evaluated based on merit against standardized assessments. Sure there are preening narcissists, but just because a preening narcissist likes the taste of a banana, doesn't change the fact that bananas are delicious and healthy. There is a place in our society for merit-based identification and advancement of young scholars. There may be other goals that we as a society want to achieve and we can have those as additional programs. Let TJ remain doing what it has done so well as to earn the top rank among the nation's high schools.
Please outline the path for that to happen expeditiously and in a manner that, you know, actually allows the idiots on this School Board to pay some attention to the other 97% of kids in FCPS.
It's not my job to outline that path. I'm merely defending that TJ should stay on its prior non-racist path that caused it to become the #1 HS in the US. That the other problems are difficult is no excuse to implement racist policies for TJ. Any time the board spent fiddling with TJ could have been used for the other 97% of FCPS kids instead.
But your “mere defense” leaves the earlier point - which is that TJ admissions has become an unproductive waste of FCPS time, energy, and resources that harms other school communities - wholly unaddressed. It’s apparently time to wind it down or change TJ to a less controversial Academy program.
IMO, a less wasteful, but still selective method would be to take X% of the highest GPA from each school (because opportunities and options vary by school), and choose from among them by lottery. If they want to be a bit more selective, have like 3 letters of support submitted by 2 STEM/1 non-STEM teacher, and use that as guidance. Parents/kids can opt out if they don't want to be submitted for consideration.
I still don't see the justification as to why the original TJ policy needed to be changed. The underrepresentation of blacks/Latinos is caused by a resource gap and not a learning ability gap, so the solution is to increase resources rather than use some method to lower the entrance standard. We combat covid by delivering shots in arms, not by cherry picking who we test to get the desired infection rate.
That's been tried for decades with no results, but people who support that status quo love it because it pushes any changes down the road a few more years.
Failure at something is no excuse to engage in racist behaviors.
Of course, we just need a new plan that will take years to judge, and then a new plan after that, and maybe a few more. In the meantime, TJ can remain unsullied by poor kids
Now you are just giving up all pretense of being rational and logical, and appealing to emotion instead. Go ahead and wallow in your sorrow. Sad face.
When people are screaming that a school going form 75% to 55% of a population that comprises 20% of students is racist, logic is out the window.
You don’t get it, do you? Ends don’t justify the means - not in modern societies.
The process to get from 75% to 55% has to be above reproach. The FCPS process is not. And needs to be done away even if it yields a class that exactly represents the demographics of the county. If you don’t understand that and are stuck on the outcome then you don’t understand the issue that is being litigated.
Every day that goes by without the current admissions process being affirmed is one step closer to the Class of 2026 being selected by lottery. It would be wise for FCPS to make it known that this is their intent if the Supreme Court vacates the Fourth Circuit stay.
Any further action by the current board *except* for restoring original TJ process will be tainted with racist intent and challenged in court.
It does seem a little ironic that thus coalition for TJ demanding that the majority of the TJ spots go to one group in the name of fairness.
That's not what they are arguing for at all. You are just making stuff up. The coalition is asking for a non-racist admissions policy and let the student demographics be what they are as a result of natural competition.
"Natural competition" that is significantly aided - unquestionably - by parents leveraging their resources as heavily as possible to put their thumbs on the scales.
Why is it a problem for parents to provide resources to their children? Isn't this the entire goal of being a parent, to provide resources to children? Why should children with resources be penalized?
Why should they be rewarded for their parents' resources?
Why should they be penalized?
How is ignoring the benefits of the resources penalizing them?
Ignoring the benefit of resources was the status quo. The board is giving preference to kids with less resources, thus penalizing kids with resources.
The status quo was rewarding the resume padding and prepping
Still not a justification to penalize kids for having parents that provide resources for them.
It's a reason to discount their effects
You are going to have to provide a rational justification for that counter-intuitive thought. Given that human civilization progression has been one where children do better than their parents by leveraging the additional resources provided by their parents, it's natural and logical to not penalize children for the resources they receive from their parents.
DP but I'll jump in here. The previous admissions process provided an enormous advantage to parents who prioritized crafting their kid's childhood completely around TJ admissions from a very young age.
What that means is that students who didn't have the good fortune to be born into a family with parents who prioritized TJ were penalized for the circumstances of their birth in the admissions process.
Reducing or eliminating that advantage is not penalizing those students who had the good fortune to be born into a family that prioritizes educational prestige.
I don't see how you can type that non ironically. How is "reducing" and "eliminating" not "penalizing"?
Because we're talking about an unearned advantage. Reducing these advantages is more or less akin to forcing all runners to start a race from the same point, rather than continuing to allow some kids to start the race 50 yards ahead because their parents put them there.
Anonymous
04/12/2022 14:20
Subject: U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts on Friday called for a response from a Virginia school
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The appeals hasn’t even ruled yet. No way the Supreme Court takes this stupid case.
This!
Well I think the SC is taking the question of whether they can do the admissions policy for this year while they sort out the whole thing through the courts, right?
Wednesday is April 13. It's way too late already, despite what the dissent said. Maybe they are on to next year's incoming class?
They can do a lottery very quickly. If they really want to tweak coalition for TJ, they can automatically enter every rising freshman in the county and create a waitlist for those who decline.
Keep dreaming.
my dream would be for them to just close the school
That's obvious, hon.
Sorry.
It gets closer every day. A school that becomes a right wing darling reliant on a very left wing school board is not long for this world.
Makes me sad, but here we are.
DP, but I would rather have them close the school than see FCPS spend so much time, money, and attention litigation over the composition of a single high school.
It's obscene that FCPS has over 200 schools and one school commands so much focus because the School Board was so clumsy and inartful when it decided to change the admissions process. Enough already.
They could have chosen to done things differently. Instead of implementing racist policies, they could have responded with more outreach and educational resources at schools that serve URM student population. Instead by went full racist, completely unbashful about their intentions, unreceptive to feedback and criticism from parents. They chose to make this into a big issue because they wanted the glory of remaking what is the top high school in the entire United States. They wanted that badge of honor on their progressive resume, a crowning achievement of performative intersectional justice for diversity, equity, and inclusion. It's no surprise then that they dedicated their resources towards this cause. The level of effort they have expended to defend their racist practice shows you just how much they have invested in this endeavor.
No one asked the school board to be racist. They just couldn't help it. They decided to do this themselves, with no one else to blame.
I agree with you but it does reach a point where it's time to just put an end to the bickering. Let TJ return to use as a neighborhood school or have it serve as a full-time Academy program offering specialized, challenging courses available only at TJ to students who attend their base schools for their other classes, but both sides need to realize how they are degrading FCPS by allowing so much attention to be focused on a single school to the exclusion of other schools.
The Coalition for TJ and the TJAAG are both full of preening narcissists equally wedded to their own visions of what TJ should be (and completely disinterested in the other 97% of FCPS kids). And this ridiculous, utterly incompetent School Board that set the stage for this to happen needs to be sent packing next year - every last one of them.
I don't see why that's the preferable outcome versus having TJ continue to be a school where applicants are evaluated based on merit against standardized assessments. Sure there are preening narcissists, but just because a preening narcissist likes the taste of a banana, doesn't change the fact that bananas are delicious and healthy. There is a place in our society for merit-based identification and advancement of young scholars. There may be other goals that we as a society want to achieve and we can have those as additional programs. Let TJ remain doing what it has done so well as to earn the top rank among the nation's high schools.
Please outline the path for that to happen expeditiously and in a manner that, you know, actually allows the idiots on this School Board to pay some attention to the other 97% of kids in FCPS.
It's not my job to outline that path. I'm merely defending that TJ should stay on its prior non-racist path that caused it to become the #1 HS in the US. That the other problems are difficult is no excuse to implement racist policies for TJ. Any time the board spent fiddling with TJ could have been used for the other 97% of FCPS kids instead.
But your “mere defense” leaves the earlier point - which is that TJ admissions has become an unproductive waste of FCPS time, energy, and resources that harms other school communities - wholly unaddressed. It’s apparently time to wind it down or change TJ to a less controversial Academy program.
IMO, a less wasteful, but still selective method would be to take X% of the highest GPA from each school (because opportunities and options vary by school), and choose from among them by lottery. If they want to be a bit more selective, have like 3 letters of support submitted by 2 STEM/1 non-STEM teacher, and use that as guidance. Parents/kids can opt out if they don't want to be submitted for consideration.
I still don't see the justification as to why the original TJ policy needed to be changed. The underrepresentation of blacks/Latinos is caused by a resource gap and not a learning ability gap, so the solution is to increase resources rather than use some method to lower the entrance standard. We combat covid by delivering shots in arms, not by cherry picking who we test to get the desired infection rate.
That's been tried for decades with no results, but people who support that status quo love it because it pushes any changes down the road a few more years.
Failure at something is no excuse to engage in racist behaviors.
Of course, we just need a new plan that will take years to judge, and then a new plan after that, and maybe a few more. In the meantime, TJ can remain unsullied by poor kids
Now you are just giving up all pretense of being rational and logical, and appealing to emotion instead. Go ahead and wallow in your sorrow. Sad face.
When people are screaming that a school going form 75% to 55% of a population that comprises 20% of students is racist, logic is out the window.
You don’t get it, do you? Ends don’t justify the means - not in modern societies.
The process to get from 75% to 55% has to be above reproach. The FCPS process is not. And needs to be done away even if it yields a class that exactly represents the demographics of the county. If you don’t understand that and are stuck on the outcome then you don’t understand the issue that is being litigated.
Every day that goes by without the current admissions process being affirmed is one step closer to the Class of 2026 being selected by lottery. It would be wise for FCPS to make it known that this is their intent if the Supreme Court vacates the Fourth Circuit stay.
Any further action by the current board *except* for restoring original TJ process will be tainted with racist intent and challenged in court.
It does seem a little ironic that thus coalition for TJ demanding that the majority of the TJ spots go to one group in the name of fairness.
That's not what they are arguing for at all. You are just making stuff up. The coalition is asking for a non-racist admissions policy and let the student demographics be what they are as a result of natural competition.
"Natural competition" that is significantly aided - unquestionably - by parents leveraging their resources as heavily as possible to put their thumbs on the scales.
Why is it a problem for parents to provide resources to their children? Isn't this the entire goal of being a parent, to provide resources to children? Why should children with resources be penalized?
They can provide all of the resources in the world to their children. They just shouldn't expect increased access to taxpayer-funded educational opportunities as a consequence.
I am not sure how you are defining "increased access" in your mind, but if the access is based on open competition of merit, then all is fair.
"Increased access" would involve supporting an admissions process that resulted in less than one percent of admitted students coming from economically disadvantaged backgrounds....
.... against the backdrop of a ubiquitous nine-figure TJ prep complex that costs thousands of dollars for entry and claims overwhelmingly effective results.
That's circular logic. You are criticizing an application process for providing "increased access" to Asians and using the result of the process as the proof of so-called increased access. You, too, would have only been accepted into TJ based on "experience factors".
Nope. My point is not about the previous process providing increased access to Asians. It's about the previous process providing increased access to families that had the resources and motivation to mold their children's entire childhood around the TJ admissions process.
There isn't anything circular about my logic. The application fee was a problem. The exam that worked well for a year until the prep companies caught up to it was a problem. And the results were in the numbers.
Anonymous
04/12/2022 14:19
Subject: U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts on Friday called for a response from a Virginia school
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The appeals hasn’t even ruled yet. No way the Supreme Court takes this stupid case.
This!
Well I think the SC is taking the question of whether they can do the admissions policy for this year while they sort out the whole thing through the courts, right?
Wednesday is April 13. It's way too late already, despite what the dissent said. Maybe they are on to next year's incoming class?
They can do a lottery very quickly. If they really want to tweak coalition for TJ, they can automatically enter every rising freshman in the county and create a waitlist for those who decline.
Keep dreaming.
my dream would be for them to just close the school
That's obvious, hon.
Sorry.
It gets closer every day. A school that becomes a right wing darling reliant on a very left wing school board is not long for this world.
Makes me sad, but here we are.
DP, but I would rather have them close the school than see FCPS spend so much time, money, and attention litigation over the composition of a single high school.
It's obscene that FCPS has over 200 schools and one school commands so much focus because the School Board was so clumsy and inartful when it decided to change the admissions process. Enough already.
They could have chosen to done things differently. Instead of implementing racist policies, they could have responded with more outreach and educational resources at schools that serve URM student population. Instead by went full racist, completely unbashful about their intentions, unreceptive to feedback and criticism from parents. They chose to make this into a big issue because they wanted the glory of remaking what is the top high school in the entire United States. They wanted that badge of honor on their progressive resume, a crowning achievement of performative intersectional justice for diversity, equity, and inclusion. It's no surprise then that they dedicated their resources towards this cause. The level of effort they have expended to defend their racist practice shows you just how much they have invested in this endeavor.
No one asked the school board to be racist. They just couldn't help it. They decided to do this themselves, with no one else to blame.
I agree with you but it does reach a point where it's time to just put an end to the bickering. Let TJ return to use as a neighborhood school or have it serve as a full-time Academy program offering specialized, challenging courses available only at TJ to students who attend their base schools for their other classes, but both sides need to realize how they are degrading FCPS by allowing so much attention to be focused on a single school to the exclusion of other schools.
The Coalition for TJ and the TJAAG are both full of preening narcissists equally wedded to their own visions of what TJ should be (and completely disinterested in the other 97% of FCPS kids). And this ridiculous, utterly incompetent School Board that set the stage for this to happen needs to be sent packing next year - every last one of them.
I don't see why that's the preferable outcome versus having TJ continue to be a school where applicants are evaluated based on merit against standardized assessments. Sure there are preening narcissists, but just because a preening narcissist likes the taste of a banana, doesn't change the fact that bananas are delicious and healthy. There is a place in our society for merit-based identification and advancement of young scholars. There may be other goals that we as a society want to achieve and we can have those as additional programs. Let TJ remain doing what it has done so well as to earn the top rank among the nation's high schools.
Please outline the path for that to happen expeditiously and in a manner that, you know, actually allows the idiots on this School Board to pay some attention to the other 97% of kids in FCPS.
It's not my job to outline that path. I'm merely defending that TJ should stay on its prior non-racist path that caused it to become the #1 HS in the US. That the other problems are difficult is no excuse to implement racist policies for TJ. Any time the board spent fiddling with TJ could have been used for the other 97% of FCPS kids instead.
But your “mere defense” leaves the earlier point - which is that TJ admissions has become an unproductive waste of FCPS time, energy, and resources that harms other school communities - wholly unaddressed. It’s apparently time to wind it down or change TJ to a less controversial Academy program.
IMO, a less wasteful, but still selective method would be to take X% of the highest GPA from each school (because opportunities and options vary by school), and choose from among them by lottery. If they want to be a bit more selective, have like 3 letters of support submitted by 2 STEM/1 non-STEM teacher, and use that as guidance. Parents/kids can opt out if they don't want to be submitted for consideration.
I still don't see the justification as to why the original TJ policy needed to be changed. The underrepresentation of blacks/Latinos is caused by a resource gap and not a learning ability gap, so the solution is to increase resources rather than use some method to lower the entrance standard. We combat covid by delivering shots in arms, not by cherry picking who we test to get the desired infection rate.
That's been tried for decades with no results, but people who support that status quo love it because it pushes any changes down the road a few more years.
Failure at something is no excuse to engage in racist behaviors.
Of course, we just need a new plan that will take years to judge, and then a new plan after that, and maybe a few more. In the meantime, TJ can remain unsullied by poor kids
Now you are just giving up all pretense of being rational and logical, and appealing to emotion instead. Go ahead and wallow in your sorrow. Sad face.
When people are screaming that a school going form 75% to 55% of a population that comprises 20% of students is racist, logic is out the window.
You don’t get it, do you? Ends don’t justify the means - not in modern societies.
The process to get from 75% to 55% has to be above reproach. The FCPS process is not. And needs to be done away even if it yields a class that exactly represents the demographics of the county. If you don’t understand that and are stuck on the outcome then you don’t understand the issue that is being litigated.
Every day that goes by without the current admissions process being affirmed is one step closer to the Class of 2026 being selected by lottery. It would be wise for FCPS to make it known that this is their intent if the Supreme Court vacates the Fourth Circuit stay.
Any further action by the current board *except* for restoring original TJ process will be tainted with racist intent and challenged in court.
It does seem a little ironic that thus coalition for TJ demanding that the majority of the TJ spots go to one group in the name of fairness.
That's not what they are arguing for at all. You are just making stuff up. The coalition is asking for a non-racist admissions policy and let the student demographics be what they are as a result of natural competition.
"Natural competition" that is significantly aided - unquestionably - by parents leveraging their resources as heavily as possible to put their thumbs on the scales.
Why is it a problem for parents to provide resources to their children? Isn't this the entire goal of being a parent, to provide resources to children? Why should children with resources be penalized?
They can provide all of the resources in the world to their children. They just shouldn't expect increased access to taxpayer-funded educational opportunities as a consequence.
The only expectation is to not be unconstitutionally denied fair access to taxpayer-funded educational opportunities. Why is that too much to ask?
It isn't. And no one is unconstitutionally denied fair access to anything as a consequence of the new TJ admissions policy. The percentages of each demographic that were eventually admitted for Class of 2025 tracked very well with the percentage of applicants from each of those demographics, suggesting a process that resulted in significantly MORE fair access than existed previously.
This isn't complicated.
This point isn't even under contention. Asians were denied constitutional fair access under the new policy. The only thing in question is whether the government had a compelling public interest in that action against the strict scrutiny standard. Demonstrated racist intent is why the FCPS board received a smackdown from a federal judge. Even the 4th circuit of appeals does not disagree with this point, simply that the assessment of racist intent was flawed.
It is complicated, you need to do some research and learn the relevant issues before posting further.
No, the point under contention is whether or not the denial was constitutional. So far one district court judge says no, two circuit judges say most likely yes, and one says most likely no.
Anonymous
04/12/2022 14:18
Subject: U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts on Friday called for a response from a Virginia school
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The appeals hasn’t even ruled yet. No way the Supreme Court takes this stupid case.
This!
Well I think the SC is taking the question of whether they can do the admissions policy for this year while they sort out the whole thing through the courts, right?
Wednesday is April 13. It's way too late already, despite what the dissent said. Maybe they are on to next year's incoming class?
They can do a lottery very quickly. If they really want to tweak coalition for TJ, they can automatically enter every rising freshman in the county and create a waitlist for those who decline.
Keep dreaming.
my dream would be for them to just close the school
That's obvious, hon.
Sorry.
It gets closer every day. A school that becomes a right wing darling reliant on a very left wing school board is not long for this world.
Makes me sad, but here we are.
DP, but I would rather have them close the school than see FCPS spend so much time, money, and attention litigation over the composition of a single high school.
It's obscene that FCPS has over 200 schools and one school commands so much focus because the School Board was so clumsy and inartful when it decided to change the admissions process. Enough already.
They could have chosen to done things differently. Instead of implementing racist policies, they could have responded with more outreach and educational resources at schools that serve URM student population. Instead by went full racist, completely unbashful about their intentions, unreceptive to feedback and criticism from parents. They chose to make this into a big issue because they wanted the glory of remaking what is the top high school in the entire United States. They wanted that badge of honor on their progressive resume, a crowning achievement of performative intersectional justice for diversity, equity, and inclusion. It's no surprise then that they dedicated their resources towards this cause. The level of effort they have expended to defend their racist practice shows you just how much they have invested in this endeavor.
No one asked the school board to be racist. They just couldn't help it. They decided to do this themselves, with no one else to blame.
I agree with you but it does reach a point where it's time to just put an end to the bickering. Let TJ return to use as a neighborhood school or have it serve as a full-time Academy program offering specialized, challenging courses available only at TJ to students who attend their base schools for their other classes, but both sides need to realize how they are degrading FCPS by allowing so much attention to be focused on a single school to the exclusion of other schools.
The Coalition for TJ and the TJAAG are both full of preening narcissists equally wedded to their own visions of what TJ should be (and completely disinterested in the other 97% of FCPS kids). And this ridiculous, utterly incompetent School Board that set the stage for this to happen needs to be sent packing next year - every last one of them.
I don't see why that's the preferable outcome versus having TJ continue to be a school where applicants are evaluated based on merit against standardized assessments. Sure there are preening narcissists, but just because a preening narcissist likes the taste of a banana, doesn't change the fact that bananas are delicious and healthy. There is a place in our society for merit-based identification and advancement of young scholars. There may be other goals that we as a society want to achieve and we can have those as additional programs. Let TJ remain doing what it has done so well as to earn the top rank among the nation's high schools.
Please outline the path for that to happen expeditiously and in a manner that, you know, actually allows the idiots on this School Board to pay some attention to the other 97% of kids in FCPS.
It's not my job to outline that path. I'm merely defending that TJ should stay on its prior non-racist path that caused it to become the #1 HS in the US. That the other problems are difficult is no excuse to implement racist policies for TJ. Any time the board spent fiddling with TJ could have been used for the other 97% of FCPS kids instead.
But your “mere defense” leaves the earlier point - which is that TJ admissions has become an unproductive waste of FCPS time, energy, and resources that harms other school communities - wholly unaddressed. It’s apparently time to wind it down or change TJ to a less controversial Academy program.
IMO, a less wasteful, but still selective method would be to take X% of the highest GPA from each school (because opportunities and options vary by school), and choose from among them by lottery. If they want to be a bit more selective, have like 3 letters of support submitted by 2 STEM/1 non-STEM teacher, and use that as guidance. Parents/kids can opt out if they don't want to be submitted for consideration.
I still don't see the justification as to why the original TJ policy needed to be changed. The underrepresentation of blacks/Latinos is caused by a resource gap and not a learning ability gap, so the solution is to increase resources rather than use some method to lower the entrance standard. We combat covid by delivering shots in arms, not by cherry picking who we test to get the desired infection rate.
That's been tried for decades with no results, but people who support that status quo love it because it pushes any changes down the road a few more years.
Failure at something is no excuse to engage in racist behaviors.
Of course, we just need a new plan that will take years to judge, and then a new plan after that, and maybe a few more. In the meantime, TJ can remain unsullied by poor kids
Now you are just giving up all pretense of being rational and logical, and appealing to emotion instead. Go ahead and wallow in your sorrow. Sad face.
When people are screaming that a school going form 75% to 55% of a population that comprises 20% of students is racist, logic is out the window.
You don’t get it, do you? Ends don’t justify the means - not in modern societies.
The process to get from 75% to 55% has to be above reproach. The FCPS process is not. And needs to be done away even if it yields a class that exactly represents the demographics of the county. If you don’t understand that and are stuck on the outcome then you don’t understand the issue that is being litigated.
Every day that goes by without the current admissions process being affirmed is one step closer to the Class of 2026 being selected by lottery. It would be wise for FCPS to make it known that this is their intent if the Supreme Court vacates the Fourth Circuit stay.
Any further action by the current board *except* for restoring original TJ process will be tainted with racist intent and challenged in court.
It does seem a little ironic that thus coalition for TJ demanding that the majority of the TJ spots go to one group in the name of fairness.
That's not what they are arguing for at all. You are just making stuff up. The coalition is asking for a non-racist admissions policy and let the student demographics be what they are as a result of natural competition.
"Natural competition" that is significantly aided - unquestionably - by parents leveraging their resources as heavily as possible to put their thumbs on the scales.
Why is it a problem for parents to provide resources to their children? Isn't this the entire goal of being a parent, to provide resources to children? Why should children with resources be penalized?
Why should they be rewarded for their parents' resources?
Why should they be penalized?
How is ignoring the benefits of the resources penalizing them?
Ignoring the benefit of resources was the status quo. The board is giving preference to kids with less resources, thus penalizing kids with resources.
The status quo was rewarding the resume padding and prepping
Still not a justification to penalize kids for having parents that provide resources for them.
It's a reason to discount their effects
You are going to have to provide a rational justification for that counter-intuitive thought. Given that human civilization progression has been one where children do better than their parents by leveraging the additional resources provided by their parents, it's natural and logical to not penalize children for the resources they receive from their parents.
DP but I'll jump in here. The previous admissions process provided an enormous advantage to parents who prioritized crafting their kid's childhood completely around TJ admissions from a very young age.
What that means is that students who didn't have the good fortune to be born into a family with parents who prioritized TJ were penalized for the circumstances of their birth in the admissions process.
Reducing or eliminating that advantage is not penalizing those students who had the good fortune to be born into a family that prioritizes educational prestige.
I don't see how you can type that non ironically. How is "reducing" and "eliminating" not "penalizing"?
Anonymous
04/12/2022 14:18
Subject: U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts on Friday called for a response from a Virginia school
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The appeals hasn’t even ruled yet. No way the Supreme Court takes this stupid case.
This!
Well I think the SC is taking the question of whether they can do the admissions policy for this year while they sort out the whole thing through the courts, right?
Wednesday is April 13. It's way too late already, despite what the dissent said. Maybe they are on to next year's incoming class?
They can do a lottery very quickly. If they really want to tweak coalition for TJ, they can automatically enter every rising freshman in the county and create a waitlist for those who decline.
Keep dreaming.
my dream would be for them to just close the school
That's obvious, hon.
Sorry.
It gets closer every day. A school that becomes a right wing darling reliant on a very left wing school board is not long for this world.
Makes me sad, but here we are.
DP, but I would rather have them close the school than see FCPS spend so much time, money, and attention litigation over the composition of a single high school.
It's obscene that FCPS has over 200 schools and one school commands so much focus because the School Board was so clumsy and inartful when it decided to change the admissions process. Enough already.
They could have chosen to done things differently. Instead of implementing racist policies, they could have responded with more outreach and educational resources at schools that serve URM student population. Instead by went full racist, completely unbashful about their intentions, unreceptive to feedback and criticism from parents. They chose to make this into a big issue because they wanted the glory of remaking what is the top high school in the entire United States. They wanted that badge of honor on their progressive resume, a crowning achievement of performative intersectional justice for diversity, equity, and inclusion. It's no surprise then that they dedicated their resources towards this cause. The level of effort they have expended to defend their racist practice shows you just how much they have invested in this endeavor.
No one asked the school board to be racist. They just couldn't help it. They decided to do this themselves, with no one else to blame.
I agree with you but it does reach a point where it's time to just put an end to the bickering. Let TJ return to use as a neighborhood school or have it serve as a full-time Academy program offering specialized, challenging courses available only at TJ to students who attend their base schools for their other classes, but both sides need to realize how they are degrading FCPS by allowing so much attention to be focused on a single school to the exclusion of other schools.
The Coalition for TJ and the TJAAG are both full of preening narcissists equally wedded to their own visions of what TJ should be (and completely disinterested in the other 97% of FCPS kids). And this ridiculous, utterly incompetent School Board that set the stage for this to happen needs to be sent packing next year - every last one of them.
I don't see why that's the preferable outcome versus having TJ continue to be a school where applicants are evaluated based on merit against standardized assessments. Sure there are preening narcissists, but just because a preening narcissist likes the taste of a banana, doesn't change the fact that bananas are delicious and healthy. There is a place in our society for merit-based identification and advancement of young scholars. There may be other goals that we as a society want to achieve and we can have those as additional programs. Let TJ remain doing what it has done so well as to earn the top rank among the nation's high schools.
Please outline the path for that to happen expeditiously and in a manner that, you know, actually allows the idiots on this School Board to pay some attention to the other 97% of kids in FCPS.
It's not my job to outline that path. I'm merely defending that TJ should stay on its prior non-racist path that caused it to become the #1 HS in the US. That the other problems are difficult is no excuse to implement racist policies for TJ. Any time the board spent fiddling with TJ could have been used for the other 97% of FCPS kids instead.
But your “mere defense” leaves the earlier point - which is that TJ admissions has become an unproductive waste of FCPS time, energy, and resources that harms other school communities - wholly unaddressed. It’s apparently time to wind it down or change TJ to a less controversial Academy program.
IMO, a less wasteful, but still selective method would be to take X% of the highest GPA from each school (because opportunities and options vary by school), and choose from among them by lottery. If they want to be a bit more selective, have like 3 letters of support submitted by 2 STEM/1 non-STEM teacher, and use that as guidance. Parents/kids can opt out if they don't want to be submitted for consideration.
I still don't see the justification as to why the original TJ policy needed to be changed. The underrepresentation of blacks/Latinos is caused by a resource gap and not a learning ability gap, so the solution is to increase resources rather than use some method to lower the entrance standard. We combat covid by delivering shots in arms, not by cherry picking who we test to get the desired infection rate.
That's been tried for decades with no results, but people who support that status quo love it because it pushes any changes down the road a few more years.
Failure at something is no excuse to engage in racist behaviors.
Of course, we just need a new plan that will take years to judge, and then a new plan after that, and maybe a few more. In the meantime, TJ can remain unsullied by poor kids
Now you are just giving up all pretense of being rational and logical, and appealing to emotion instead. Go ahead and wallow in your sorrow. Sad face.
When people are screaming that a school going form 75% to 55% of a population that comprises 20% of students is racist, logic is out the window.
You don’t get it, do you? Ends don’t justify the means - not in modern societies.
The process to get from 75% to 55% has to be above reproach. The FCPS process is not. And needs to be done away even if it yields a class that exactly represents the demographics of the county. If you don’t understand that and are stuck on the outcome then you don’t understand the issue that is being litigated.
Every day that goes by without the current admissions process being affirmed is one step closer to the Class of 2026 being selected by lottery. It would be wise for FCPS to make it known that this is their intent if the Supreme Court vacates the Fourth Circuit stay.
Any further action by the current board *except* for restoring original TJ process will be tainted with racist intent and challenged in court.
It does seem a little ironic that thus coalition for TJ demanding that the majority of the TJ spots go to one group in the name of fairness.
That's not what they are arguing for at all. You are just making stuff up. The coalition is asking for a non-racist admissions policy and let the student demographics be what they are as a result of natural competition.
"Natural competition" that is significantly aided - unquestionably - by parents leveraging their resources as heavily as possible to put their thumbs on the scales.
Why is it a problem for parents to provide resources to their children? Isn't this the entire goal of being a parent, to provide resources to children? Why should children with resources be penalized?
They can provide all of the resources in the world to their children. They just shouldn't expect increased access to taxpayer-funded educational opportunities as a consequence.
The only expectation is to not be unconstitutionally denied fair access to taxpayer-funded educational opportunities. Why is that too much to ask?
It isn't. And no one is unconstitutionally denied fair access to anything as a consequence of the new TJ admissions policy. The percentages of each demographic that were eventually admitted for Class of 2025 tracked very well with the percentage of applicants from each of those demographics, suggesting a process that resulted in significantly MORE fair access than existed previously.
This isn't complicated.
I will buy what you are selling if you can show me that the rest of constitutionality is actually “ The percentages of each demographic that were eventually admitted for Class of 2025 tracked very well with the percentage of applicants from each of those demographics, suggesting a process that resulted in significantly MORE fair access than existed previously.”
If so, it’s really not complicated. And should not have invited scrutiny from the Chief Justice among others.
May be you have a pithy solution to world hunger? The temperature today is less than the seasonal average. We have solved glibsl warming. Agreed?
Anonymous
04/12/2022 14:17
Subject: U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts on Friday called for a response from a Virginia school
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The appeals hasn’t even ruled yet. No way the Supreme Court takes this stupid case.
This!
Well I think the SC is taking the question of whether they can do the admissions policy for this year while they sort out the whole thing through the courts, right?
Wednesday is April 13. It's way too late already, despite what the dissent said. Maybe they are on to next year's incoming class?
They can do a lottery very quickly. If they really want to tweak coalition for TJ, they can automatically enter every rising freshman in the county and create a waitlist for those who decline.
Keep dreaming.
my dream would be for them to just close the school
That's obvious, hon.
Sorry.
It gets closer every day. A school that becomes a right wing darling reliant on a very left wing school board is not long for this world.
Makes me sad, but here we are.
DP, but I would rather have them close the school than see FCPS spend so much time, money, and attention litigation over the composition of a single high school.
It's obscene that FCPS has over 200 schools and one school commands so much focus because the School Board was so clumsy and inartful when it decided to change the admissions process. Enough already.
They could have chosen to done things differently. Instead of implementing racist policies, they could have responded with more outreach and educational resources at schools that serve URM student population. Instead by went full racist, completely unbashful about their intentions, unreceptive to feedback and criticism from parents. They chose to make this into a big issue because they wanted the glory of remaking what is the top high school in the entire United States. They wanted that badge of honor on their progressive resume, a crowning achievement of performative intersectional justice for diversity, equity, and inclusion. It's no surprise then that they dedicated their resources towards this cause. The level of effort they have expended to defend their racist practice shows you just how much they have invested in this endeavor.
No one asked the school board to be racist. They just couldn't help it. They decided to do this themselves, with no one else to blame.
I agree with you but it does reach a point where it's time to just put an end to the bickering. Let TJ return to use as a neighborhood school or have it serve as a full-time Academy program offering specialized, challenging courses available only at TJ to students who attend their base schools for their other classes, but both sides need to realize how they are degrading FCPS by allowing so much attention to be focused on a single school to the exclusion of other schools.
The Coalition for TJ and the TJAAG are both full of preening narcissists equally wedded to their own visions of what TJ should be (and completely disinterested in the other 97% of FCPS kids). And this ridiculous, utterly incompetent School Board that set the stage for this to happen needs to be sent packing next year - every last one of them.
I don't see why that's the preferable outcome versus having TJ continue to be a school where applicants are evaluated based on merit against standardized assessments. Sure there are preening narcissists, but just because a preening narcissist likes the taste of a banana, doesn't change the fact that bananas are delicious and healthy. There is a place in our society for merit-based identification and advancement of young scholars. There may be other goals that we as a society want to achieve and we can have those as additional programs. Let TJ remain doing what it has done so well as to earn the top rank among the nation's high schools.
Please outline the path for that to happen expeditiously and in a manner that, you know, actually allows the idiots on this School Board to pay some attention to the other 97% of kids in FCPS.
It's not my job to outline that path. I'm merely defending that TJ should stay on its prior non-racist path that caused it to become the #1 HS in the US. That the other problems are difficult is no excuse to implement racist policies for TJ. Any time the board spent fiddling with TJ could have been used for the other 97% of FCPS kids instead.
But your “mere defense” leaves the earlier point - which is that TJ admissions has become an unproductive waste of FCPS time, energy, and resources that harms other school communities - wholly unaddressed. It’s apparently time to wind it down or change TJ to a less controversial Academy program.
IMO, a less wasteful, but still selective method would be to take X% of the highest GPA from each school (because opportunities and options vary by school), and choose from among them by lottery. If they want to be a bit more selective, have like 3 letters of support submitted by 2 STEM/1 non-STEM teacher, and use that as guidance. Parents/kids can opt out if they don't want to be submitted for consideration.
I still don't see the justification as to why the original TJ policy needed to be changed. The underrepresentation of blacks/Latinos is caused by a resource gap and not a learning ability gap, so the solution is to increase resources rather than use some method to lower the entrance standard. We combat covid by delivering shots in arms, not by cherry picking who we test to get the desired infection rate.
That's been tried for decades with no results, but people who support that status quo love it because it pushes any changes down the road a few more years.
Failure at something is no excuse to engage in racist behaviors.
Of course, we just need a new plan that will take years to judge, and then a new plan after that, and maybe a few more. In the meantime, TJ can remain unsullied by poor kids
Now you are just giving up all pretense of being rational and logical, and appealing to emotion instead. Go ahead and wallow in your sorrow. Sad face.
When people are screaming that a school going form 75% to 55% of a population that comprises 20% of students is racist, logic is out the window.
You don’t get it, do you? Ends don’t justify the means - not in modern societies.
The process to get from 75% to 55% has to be above reproach. The FCPS process is not. And needs to be done away even if it yields a class that exactly represents the demographics of the county. If you don’t understand that and are stuck on the outcome then you don’t understand the issue that is being litigated.
Every day that goes by without the current admissions process being affirmed is one step closer to the Class of 2026 being selected by lottery. It would be wise for FCPS to make it known that this is their intent if the Supreme Court vacates the Fourth Circuit stay.
Any further action by the current board *except* for restoring original TJ process will be tainted with racist intent and challenged in court.
It does seem a little ironic that thus coalition for TJ demanding that the majority of the TJ spots go to one group in the name of fairness.
That's not what they are arguing for at all. You are just making stuff up. The coalition is asking for a non-racist admissions policy and let the student demographics be what they are as a result of natural competition.
"Natural competition" that is significantly aided - unquestionably - by parents leveraging their resources as heavily as possible to put their thumbs on the scales.
Why is it a problem for parents to provide resources to their children? Isn't this the entire goal of being a parent, to provide resources to children? Why should children with resources be penalized?
They can provide all of the resources in the world to their children. They just shouldn't expect increased access to taxpayer-funded educational opportunities as a consequence.
The only expectation is to not be unconstitutionally denied fair access to taxpayer-funded educational opportunities. Why is that too much to ask?
It isn't. And no one is unconstitutionally denied fair access to anything as a consequence of the new TJ admissions policy. The percentages of each demographic that were eventually admitted for Class of 2025 tracked very well with the percentage of applicants from each of those demographics, suggesting a process that resulted in significantly MORE fair access than existed previously.
This isn't complicated.
This point isn't even under contention. Asians were denied constitutional fair access under the new policy. The only thing in question is whether the government had a compelling public interest in that action against the strict scrutiny standard. Demonstrated racist intent is why the FCPS board received a smackdown from a federal judge. Even the 4th circuit of appeals does not disagree with this point, simply that the assessment of racist intent was flawed.
It is complicated, you need to do some research and learn the relevant issues before posting further.
Cite the passage from Heytens' concurrence where he acknowledges that Asians were denied constitutional fair access. Please, for all of our benefit.
Anonymous
04/12/2022 14:16
Subject: U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts on Friday called for a response from a Virginia school
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The appeals hasn’t even ruled yet. No way the Supreme Court takes this stupid case.
This!
Well I think the SC is taking the question of whether they can do the admissions policy for this year while they sort out the whole thing through the courts, right?
Wednesday is April 13. It's way too late already, despite what the dissent said. Maybe they are on to next year's incoming class?
They can do a lottery very quickly. If they really want to tweak coalition for TJ, they can automatically enter every rising freshman in the county and create a waitlist for those who decline.
Keep dreaming.
my dream would be for them to just close the school
That's obvious, hon.
Sorry.
It gets closer every day. A school that becomes a right wing darling reliant on a very left wing school board is not long for this world.
Makes me sad, but here we are.
DP, but I would rather have them close the school than see FCPS spend so much time, money, and attention litigation over the composition of a single high school.
It's obscene that FCPS has over 200 schools and one school commands so much focus because the School Board was so clumsy and inartful when it decided to change the admissions process. Enough already.
They could have chosen to done things differently. Instead of implementing racist policies, they could have responded with more outreach and educational resources at schools that serve URM student population. Instead by went full racist, completely unbashful about their intentions, unreceptive to feedback and criticism from parents. They chose to make this into a big issue because they wanted the glory of remaking what is the top high school in the entire United States. They wanted that badge of honor on their progressive resume, a crowning achievement of performative intersectional justice for diversity, equity, and inclusion. It's no surprise then that they dedicated their resources towards this cause. The level of effort they have expended to defend their racist practice shows you just how much they have invested in this endeavor.
No one asked the school board to be racist. They just couldn't help it. They decided to do this themselves, with no one else to blame.
I agree with you but it does reach a point where it's time to just put an end to the bickering. Let TJ return to use as a neighborhood school or have it serve as a full-time Academy program offering specialized, challenging courses available only at TJ to students who attend their base schools for their other classes, but both sides need to realize how they are degrading FCPS by allowing so much attention to be focused on a single school to the exclusion of other schools.
The Coalition for TJ and the TJAAG are both full of preening narcissists equally wedded to their own visions of what TJ should be (and completely disinterested in the other 97% of FCPS kids). And this ridiculous, utterly incompetent School Board that set the stage for this to happen needs to be sent packing next year - every last one of them.
I don't see why that's the preferable outcome versus having TJ continue to be a school where applicants are evaluated based on merit against standardized assessments. Sure there are preening narcissists, but just because a preening narcissist likes the taste of a banana, doesn't change the fact that bananas are delicious and healthy. There is a place in our society for merit-based identification and advancement of young scholars. There may be other goals that we as a society want to achieve and we can have those as additional programs. Let TJ remain doing what it has done so well as to earn the top rank among the nation's high schools.
Please outline the path for that to happen expeditiously and in a manner that, you know, actually allows the idiots on this School Board to pay some attention to the other 97% of kids in FCPS.
It's not my job to outline that path. I'm merely defending that TJ should stay on its prior non-racist path that caused it to become the #1 HS in the US. That the other problems are difficult is no excuse to implement racist policies for TJ. Any time the board spent fiddling with TJ could have been used for the other 97% of FCPS kids instead.
But your “mere defense” leaves the earlier point - which is that TJ admissions has become an unproductive waste of FCPS time, energy, and resources that harms other school communities - wholly unaddressed. It’s apparently time to wind it down or change TJ to a less controversial Academy program.
IMO, a less wasteful, but still selective method would be to take X% of the highest GPA from each school (because opportunities and options vary by school), and choose from among them by lottery. If they want to be a bit more selective, have like 3 letters of support submitted by 2 STEM/1 non-STEM teacher, and use that as guidance. Parents/kids can opt out if they don't want to be submitted for consideration.
I still don't see the justification as to why the original TJ policy needed to be changed. The underrepresentation of blacks/Latinos is caused by a resource gap and not a learning ability gap, so the solution is to increase resources rather than use some method to lower the entrance standard. We combat covid by delivering shots in arms, not by cherry picking who we test to get the desired infection rate.
That's been tried for decades with no results, but people who support that status quo love it because it pushes any changes down the road a few more years.
Failure at something is no excuse to engage in racist behaviors.
Of course, we just need a new plan that will take years to judge, and then a new plan after that, and maybe a few more. In the meantime, TJ can remain unsullied by poor kids
Now you are just giving up all pretense of being rational and logical, and appealing to emotion instead. Go ahead and wallow in your sorrow. Sad face.
When people are screaming that a school going form 75% to 55% of a population that comprises 20% of students is racist, logic is out the window.
You don’t get it, do you? Ends don’t justify the means - not in modern societies.
The process to get from 75% to 55% has to be above reproach. The FCPS process is not. And needs to be done away even if it yields a class that exactly represents the demographics of the county. If you don’t understand that and are stuck on the outcome then you don’t understand the issue that is being litigated.
Every day that goes by without the current admissions process being affirmed is one step closer to the Class of 2026 being selected by lottery. It would be wise for FCPS to make it known that this is their intent if the Supreme Court vacates the Fourth Circuit stay.
Any further action by the current board *except* for restoring original TJ process will be tainted with racist intent and challenged in court.
It does seem a little ironic that thus coalition for TJ demanding that the majority of the TJ spots go to one group in the name of fairness.
That's not what they are arguing for at all. You are just making stuff up. The coalition is asking for a non-racist admissions policy and let the student demographics be what they are as a result of natural competition.
"Natural competition" that is significantly aided - unquestionably - by parents leveraging their resources as heavily as possible to put their thumbs on the scales.
Why is it a problem for parents to provide resources to their children? Isn't this the entire goal of being a parent, to provide resources to children? Why should children with resources be penalized?
They can provide all of the resources in the world to their children. They just shouldn't expect increased access to taxpayer-funded educational opportunities as a consequence.
I am not sure how you are defining "increased access" in your mind, but if the access is based on open competition of merit, then all is fair.
"Increased access" would involve supporting an admissions process that resulted in less than one percent of admitted students coming from economically disadvantaged backgrounds....
.... against the backdrop of a ubiquitous nine-figure TJ prep complex that costs thousands of dollars for entry and claims overwhelmingly effective results.
That's circular logic. You are criticizing an application process for providing "increased access" to Asians and using the result of the process as the proof of so-called increased access. You, too, would have only been accepted into TJ based on "experience factors".
Anonymous
04/12/2022 14:16
Subject: U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts on Friday called for a response from a Virginia school
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The appeals hasn’t even ruled yet. No way the Supreme Court takes this stupid case.
This!
Well I think the SC is taking the question of whether they can do the admissions policy for this year while they sort out the whole thing through the courts, right?
Wednesday is April 13. It's way too late already, despite what the dissent said. Maybe they are on to next year's incoming class?
They can do a lottery very quickly. If they really want to tweak coalition for TJ, they can automatically enter every rising freshman in the county and create a waitlist for those who decline.
Keep dreaming.
my dream would be for them to just close the school
That's obvious, hon.
Sorry.
It gets closer every day. A school that becomes a right wing darling reliant on a very left wing school board is not long for this world.
Makes me sad, but here we are.
DP, but I would rather have them close the school than see FCPS spend so much time, money, and attention litigation over the composition of a single high school.
It's obscene that FCPS has over 200 schools and one school commands so much focus because the School Board was so clumsy and inartful when it decided to change the admissions process. Enough already.
They could have chosen to done things differently. Instead of implementing racist policies, they could have responded with more outreach and educational resources at schools that serve URM student population. Instead by went full racist, completely unbashful about their intentions, unreceptive to feedback and criticism from parents. They chose to make this into a big issue because they wanted the glory of remaking what is the top high school in the entire United States. They wanted that badge of honor on their progressive resume, a crowning achievement of performative intersectional justice for diversity, equity, and inclusion. It's no surprise then that they dedicated their resources towards this cause. The level of effort they have expended to defend their racist practice shows you just how much they have invested in this endeavor.
No one asked the school board to be racist. They just couldn't help it. They decided to do this themselves, with no one else to blame.
I agree with you but it does reach a point where it's time to just put an end to the bickering. Let TJ return to use as a neighborhood school or have it serve as a full-time Academy program offering specialized, challenging courses available only at TJ to students who attend their base schools for their other classes, but both sides need to realize how they are degrading FCPS by allowing so much attention to be focused on a single school to the exclusion of other schools.
The Coalition for TJ and the TJAAG are both full of preening narcissists equally wedded to their own visions of what TJ should be (and completely disinterested in the other 97% of FCPS kids). And this ridiculous, utterly incompetent School Board that set the stage for this to happen needs to be sent packing next year - every last one of them.
I don't see why that's the preferable outcome versus having TJ continue to be a school where applicants are evaluated based on merit against standardized assessments. Sure there are preening narcissists, but just because a preening narcissist likes the taste of a banana, doesn't change the fact that bananas are delicious and healthy. There is a place in our society for merit-based identification and advancement of young scholars. There may be other goals that we as a society want to achieve and we can have those as additional programs. Let TJ remain doing what it has done so well as to earn the top rank among the nation's high schools.
Please outline the path for that to happen expeditiously and in a manner that, you know, actually allows the idiots on this School Board to pay some attention to the other 97% of kids in FCPS.
It's not my job to outline that path. I'm merely defending that TJ should stay on its prior non-racist path that caused it to become the #1 HS in the US. That the other problems are difficult is no excuse to implement racist policies for TJ. Any time the board spent fiddling with TJ could have been used for the other 97% of FCPS kids instead.
But your “mere defense” leaves the earlier point - which is that TJ admissions has become an unproductive waste of FCPS time, energy, and resources that harms other school communities - wholly unaddressed. It’s apparently time to wind it down or change TJ to a less controversial Academy program.
IMO, a less wasteful, but still selective method would be to take X% of the highest GPA from each school (because opportunities and options vary by school), and choose from among them by lottery. If they want to be a bit more selective, have like 3 letters of support submitted by 2 STEM/1 non-STEM teacher, and use that as guidance. Parents/kids can opt out if they don't want to be submitted for consideration.
I still don't see the justification as to why the original TJ policy needed to be changed. The underrepresentation of blacks/Latinos is caused by a resource gap and not a learning ability gap, so the solution is to increase resources rather than use some method to lower the entrance standard. We combat covid by delivering shots in arms, not by cherry picking who we test to get the desired infection rate.
That's been tried for decades with no results, but people who support that status quo love it because it pushes any changes down the road a few more years.
Failure at something is no excuse to engage in racist behaviors.
Of course, we just need a new plan that will take years to judge, and then a new plan after that, and maybe a few more. In the meantime, TJ can remain unsullied by poor kids
Now you are just giving up all pretense of being rational and logical, and appealing to emotion instead. Go ahead and wallow in your sorrow. Sad face.
When people are screaming that a school going form 75% to 55% of a population that comprises 20% of students is racist, logic is out the window.
You don’t get it, do you? Ends don’t justify the means - not in modern societies.
The process to get from 75% to 55% has to be above reproach. The FCPS process is not. And needs to be done away even if it yields a class that exactly represents the demographics of the county. If you don’t understand that and are stuck on the outcome then you don’t understand the issue that is being litigated.
Every day that goes by without the current admissions process being affirmed is one step closer to the Class of 2026 being selected by lottery. It would be wise for FCPS to make it known that this is their intent if the Supreme Court vacates the Fourth Circuit stay.
Any further action by the current board *except* for restoring original TJ process will be tainted with racist intent and challenged in court.
It does seem a little ironic that thus coalition for TJ demanding that the majority of the TJ spots go to one group in the name of fairness.
That's not what they are arguing for at all. You are just making stuff up. The coalition is asking for a non-racist admissions policy and let the student demographics be what they are as a result of natural competition.
"Natural competition" that is significantly aided - unquestionably - by parents leveraging their resources as heavily as possible to put their thumbs on the scales.
Why is it a problem for parents to provide resources to their children? Isn't this the entire goal of being a parent, to provide resources to children? Why should children with resources be penalized?
Why should they be rewarded for their parents' resources?
Why should they be penalized?
How is ignoring the benefits of the resources penalizing them?
Ignoring the benefit of resources was the status quo. The board is giving preference to kids with less resources, thus penalizing kids with resources.
The status quo was rewarding the resume padding and prepping
Still not a justification to penalize kids for having parents that provide resources for them.
It's a reason to discount their effects
You are going to have to provide a rational justification for that counter-intuitive thought. Given that human civilization progression has been one where children do better than their parents by leveraging the additional resources provided by their parents, it's natural and logical to not penalize children for the resources they receive from their parents.
DP but I'll jump in here. The previous admissions process provided an enormous advantage to parents who prioritized crafting their kid's childhood completely around TJ admissions from a very young age.
What that means is that students who didn't have the good fortune to be born into a family with parents who prioritized TJ were penalized for the circumstances of their birth in the admissions process.
Reducing or eliminating that advantage is not penalizing those students who had the good fortune to be born into a family that prioritizes educational prestige.
Anonymous
04/12/2022 14:13
Subject: U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts on Friday called for a response from a Virginia school
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The appeals hasn’t even ruled yet. No way the Supreme Court takes this stupid case.
This!
Well I think the SC is taking the question of whether they can do the admissions policy for this year while they sort out the whole thing through the courts, right?
Wednesday is April 13. It's way too late already, despite what the dissent said. Maybe they are on to next year's incoming class?
They can do a lottery very quickly. If they really want to tweak coalition for TJ, they can automatically enter every rising freshman in the county and create a waitlist for those who decline.
Keep dreaming.
my dream would be for them to just close the school
That's obvious, hon.
Sorry.
It gets closer every day. A school that becomes a right wing darling reliant on a very left wing school board is not long for this world.
Makes me sad, but here we are.
DP, but I would rather have them close the school than see FCPS spend so much time, money, and attention litigation over the composition of a single high school.
It's obscene that FCPS has over 200 schools and one school commands so much focus because the School Board was so clumsy and inartful when it decided to change the admissions process. Enough already.
They could have chosen to done things differently. Instead of implementing racist policies, they could have responded with more outreach and educational resources at schools that serve URM student population. Instead by went full racist, completely unbashful about their intentions, unreceptive to feedback and criticism from parents. They chose to make this into a big issue because they wanted the glory of remaking what is the top high school in the entire United States. They wanted that badge of honor on their progressive resume, a crowning achievement of performative intersectional justice for diversity, equity, and inclusion. It's no surprise then that they dedicated their resources towards this cause. The level of effort they have expended to defend their racist practice shows you just how much they have invested in this endeavor.
No one asked the school board to be racist. They just couldn't help it. They decided to do this themselves, with no one else to blame.
I agree with you but it does reach a point where it's time to just put an end to the bickering. Let TJ return to use as a neighborhood school or have it serve as a full-time Academy program offering specialized, challenging courses available only at TJ to students who attend their base schools for their other classes, but both sides need to realize how they are degrading FCPS by allowing so much attention to be focused on a single school to the exclusion of other schools.
The Coalition for TJ and the TJAAG are both full of preening narcissists equally wedded to their own visions of what TJ should be (and completely disinterested in the other 97% of FCPS kids). And this ridiculous, utterly incompetent School Board that set the stage for this to happen needs to be sent packing next year - every last one of them.
I don't see why that's the preferable outcome versus having TJ continue to be a school where applicants are evaluated based on merit against standardized assessments. Sure there are preening narcissists, but just because a preening narcissist likes the taste of a banana, doesn't change the fact that bananas are delicious and healthy. There is a place in our society for merit-based identification and advancement of young scholars. There may be other goals that we as a society want to achieve and we can have those as additional programs. Let TJ remain doing what it has done so well as to earn the top rank among the nation's high schools.
Please outline the path for that to happen expeditiously and in a manner that, you know, actually allows the idiots on this School Board to pay some attention to the other 97% of kids in FCPS.
It's not my job to outline that path. I'm merely defending that TJ should stay on its prior non-racist path that caused it to become the #1 HS in the US. That the other problems are difficult is no excuse to implement racist policies for TJ. Any time the board spent fiddling with TJ could have been used for the other 97% of FCPS kids instead.
But your “mere defense” leaves the earlier point - which is that TJ admissions has become an unproductive waste of FCPS time, energy, and resources that harms other school communities - wholly unaddressed. It’s apparently time to wind it down or change TJ to a less controversial Academy program.
IMO, a less wasteful, but still selective method would be to take X% of the highest GPA from each school (because opportunities and options vary by school), and choose from among them by lottery. If they want to be a bit more selective, have like 3 letters of support submitted by 2 STEM/1 non-STEM teacher, and use that as guidance. Parents/kids can opt out if they don't want to be submitted for consideration.
I still don't see the justification as to why the original TJ policy needed to be changed. The underrepresentation of blacks/Latinos is caused by a resource gap and not a learning ability gap, so the solution is to increase resources rather than use some method to lower the entrance standard. We combat covid by delivering shots in arms, not by cherry picking who we test to get the desired infection rate.
That's been tried for decades with no results, but people who support that status quo love it because it pushes any changes down the road a few more years.
Failure at something is no excuse to engage in racist behaviors.
Of course, we just need a new plan that will take years to judge, and then a new plan after that, and maybe a few more. In the meantime, TJ can remain unsullied by poor kids
Now you are just giving up all pretense of being rational and logical, and appealing to emotion instead. Go ahead and wallow in your sorrow. Sad face.
When people are screaming that a school going form 75% to 55% of a population that comprises 20% of students is racist, logic is out the window.
You don’t get it, do you? Ends don’t justify the means - not in modern societies.
The process to get from 75% to 55% has to be above reproach. The FCPS process is not. And needs to be done away even if it yields a class that exactly represents the demographics of the county. If you don’t understand that and are stuck on the outcome then you don’t understand the issue that is being litigated.
Every day that goes by without the current admissions process being affirmed is one step closer to the Class of 2026 being selected by lottery. It would be wise for FCPS to make it known that this is their intent if the Supreme Court vacates the Fourth Circuit stay.
Any further action by the current board *except* for restoring original TJ process will be tainted with racist intent and challenged in court.
It does seem a little ironic that thus coalition for TJ demanding that the majority of the TJ spots go to one group in the name of fairness.
That's not what they are arguing for at all. You are just making stuff up. The coalition is asking for a non-racist admissions policy and let the student demographics be what they are as a result of natural competition.
"Natural competition" that is significantly aided - unquestionably - by parents leveraging their resources as heavily as possible to put their thumbs on the scales.
Why is it a problem for parents to provide resources to their children? Isn't this the entire goal of being a parent, to provide resources to children? Why should children with resources be penalized?
They can provide all of the resources in the world to their children. They just shouldn't expect increased access to taxpayer-funded educational opportunities as a consequence.
The only expectation is to not be unconstitutionally denied fair access to taxpayer-funded educational opportunities. Why is that too much to ask?
It isn't. And no one is unconstitutionally denied fair access to anything as a consequence of the new TJ admissions policy. The percentages of each demographic that were eventually admitted for Class of 2025 tracked very well with the percentage of applicants from each of those demographics, suggesting a process that resulted in significantly MORE fair access than existed previously.
This isn't complicated.
This point isn't even under contention. Asians were denied constitutional fair access under the new policy. The only thing in question is whether the government had a compelling public interest in that action against the strict scrutiny standard. Demonstrated racist intent is why the FCPS board received a smackdown from a federal judge. Even the 4th circuit of appeals does not disagree with this point, simply that the assessment of racist intent was flawed.
It is complicated, you need to do some research and learn the relevant issues before posting further.
Anonymous
04/12/2022 14:11
Subject: U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts on Friday called for a response from a Virginia school
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The appeals hasn’t even ruled yet. No way the Supreme Court takes this stupid case.
This!
Well I think the SC is taking the question of whether they can do the admissions policy for this year while they sort out the whole thing through the courts, right?
Wednesday is April 13. It's way too late already, despite what the dissent said. Maybe they are on to next year's incoming class?
They can do a lottery very quickly. If they really want to tweak coalition for TJ, they can automatically enter every rising freshman in the county and create a waitlist for those who decline.
Keep dreaming.
my dream would be for them to just close the school
That's obvious, hon.
Sorry.
It gets closer every day. A school that becomes a right wing darling reliant on a very left wing school board is not long for this world.
Makes me sad, but here we are.
DP, but I would rather have them close the school than see FCPS spend so much time, money, and attention litigation over the composition of a single high school.
It's obscene that FCPS has over 200 schools and one school commands so much focus because the School Board was so clumsy and inartful when it decided to change the admissions process. Enough already.
They could have chosen to done things differently. Instead of implementing racist policies, they could have responded with more outreach and educational resources at schools that serve URM student population. Instead by went full racist, completely unbashful about their intentions, unreceptive to feedback and criticism from parents. They chose to make this into a big issue because they wanted the glory of remaking what is the top high school in the entire United States. They wanted that badge of honor on their progressive resume, a crowning achievement of performative intersectional justice for diversity, equity, and inclusion. It's no surprise then that they dedicated their resources towards this cause. The level of effort they have expended to defend their racist practice shows you just how much they have invested in this endeavor.
No one asked the school board to be racist. They just couldn't help it. They decided to do this themselves, with no one else to blame.
I agree with you but it does reach a point where it's time to just put an end to the bickering. Let TJ return to use as a neighborhood school or have it serve as a full-time Academy program offering specialized, challenging courses available only at TJ to students who attend their base schools for their other classes, but both sides need to realize how they are degrading FCPS by allowing so much attention to be focused on a single school to the exclusion of other schools.
The Coalition for TJ and the TJAAG are both full of preening narcissists equally wedded to their own visions of what TJ should be (and completely disinterested in the other 97% of FCPS kids). And this ridiculous, utterly incompetent School Board that set the stage for this to happen needs to be sent packing next year - every last one of them.
I don't see why that's the preferable outcome versus having TJ continue to be a school where applicants are evaluated based on merit against standardized assessments. Sure there are preening narcissists, but just because a preening narcissist likes the taste of a banana, doesn't change the fact that bananas are delicious and healthy. There is a place in our society for merit-based identification and advancement of young scholars. There may be other goals that we as a society want to achieve and we can have those as additional programs. Let TJ remain doing what it has done so well as to earn the top rank among the nation's high schools.
Please outline the path for that to happen expeditiously and in a manner that, you know, actually allows the idiots on this School Board to pay some attention to the other 97% of kids in FCPS.
It's not my job to outline that path. I'm merely defending that TJ should stay on its prior non-racist path that caused it to become the #1 HS in the US. That the other problems are difficult is no excuse to implement racist policies for TJ. Any time the board spent fiddling with TJ could have been used for the other 97% of FCPS kids instead.
But your “mere defense” leaves the earlier point - which is that TJ admissions has become an unproductive waste of FCPS time, energy, and resources that harms other school communities - wholly unaddressed. It’s apparently time to wind it down or change TJ to a less controversial Academy program.
IMO, a less wasteful, but still selective method would be to take X% of the highest GPA from each school (because opportunities and options vary by school), and choose from among them by lottery. If they want to be a bit more selective, have like 3 letters of support submitted by 2 STEM/1 non-STEM teacher, and use that as guidance. Parents/kids can opt out if they don't want to be submitted for consideration.
I still don't see the justification as to why the original TJ policy needed to be changed. The underrepresentation of blacks/Latinos is caused by a resource gap and not a learning ability gap, so the solution is to increase resources rather than use some method to lower the entrance standard. We combat covid by delivering shots in arms, not by cherry picking who we test to get the desired infection rate.
That's been tried for decades with no results, but people who support that status quo love it because it pushes any changes down the road a few more years.
Failure at something is no excuse to engage in racist behaviors.
Of course, we just need a new plan that will take years to judge, and then a new plan after that, and maybe a few more. In the meantime, TJ can remain unsullied by poor kids
Now you are just giving up all pretense of being rational and logical, and appealing to emotion instead. Go ahead and wallow in your sorrow. Sad face.
When people are screaming that a school going form 75% to 55% of a population that comprises 20% of students is racist, logic is out the window.
You don’t get it, do you? Ends don’t justify the means - not in modern societies.
The process to get from 75% to 55% has to be above reproach. The FCPS process is not. And needs to be done away even if it yields a class that exactly represents the demographics of the county. If you don’t understand that and are stuck on the outcome then you don’t understand the issue that is being litigated.
Every day that goes by without the current admissions process being affirmed is one step closer to the Class of 2026 being selected by lottery. It would be wise for FCPS to make it known that this is their intent if the Supreme Court vacates the Fourth Circuit stay.
Any further action by the current board *except* for restoring original TJ process will be tainted with racist intent and challenged in court.
It does seem a little ironic that thus coalition for TJ demanding that the majority of the TJ spots go to one group in the name of fairness.
That's not what they are arguing for at all. You are just making stuff up. The coalition is asking for a non-racist admissions policy and let the student demographics be what they are as a result of natural competition.
"Natural competition" that is significantly aided - unquestionably - by parents leveraging their resources as heavily as possible to put their thumbs on the scales.
Why is it a problem for parents to provide resources to their children? Isn't this the entire goal of being a parent, to provide resources to children? Why should children with resources be penalized?
They can provide all of the resources in the world to their children. They just shouldn't expect increased access to taxpayer-funded educational opportunities as a consequence.
I am not sure how you are defining "increased access" in your mind, but if the access is based on open competition of merit, then all is fair.
"Increased access" would involve supporting an admissions process that resulted in less than one percent of admitted students coming from economically disadvantaged backgrounds....
.... against the backdrop of a ubiquitous nine-figure TJ prep complex that costs thousands of dollars for entry and claims overwhelmingly effective results.
Anonymous
04/12/2022 14:08
Subject: U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts on Friday called for a response from a Virginia school
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The appeals hasn’t even ruled yet. No way the Supreme Court takes this stupid case.
This!
Well I think the SC is taking the question of whether they can do the admissions policy for this year while they sort out the whole thing through the courts, right?
Wednesday is April 13. It's way too late already, despite what the dissent said. Maybe they are on to next year's incoming class?
They can do a lottery very quickly. If they really want to tweak coalition for TJ, they can automatically enter every rising freshman in the county and create a waitlist for those who decline.
Keep dreaming.
my dream would be for them to just close the school
That's obvious, hon.
Sorry.
It gets closer every day. A school that becomes a right wing darling reliant on a very left wing school board is not long for this world.
Makes me sad, but here we are.
DP, but I would rather have them close the school than see FCPS spend so much time, money, and attention litigation over the composition of a single high school.
It's obscene that FCPS has over 200 schools and one school commands so much focus because the School Board was so clumsy and inartful when it decided to change the admissions process. Enough already.
They could have chosen to done things differently. Instead of implementing racist policies, they could have responded with more outreach and educational resources at schools that serve URM student population. Instead by went full racist, completely unbashful about their intentions, unreceptive to feedback and criticism from parents. They chose to make this into a big issue because they wanted the glory of remaking what is the top high school in the entire United States. They wanted that badge of honor on their progressive resume, a crowning achievement of performative intersectional justice for diversity, equity, and inclusion. It's no surprise then that they dedicated their resources towards this cause. The level of effort they have expended to defend their racist practice shows you just how much they have invested in this endeavor.
No one asked the school board to be racist. They just couldn't help it. They decided to do this themselves, with no one else to blame.
I agree with you but it does reach a point where it's time to just put an end to the bickering. Let TJ return to use as a neighborhood school or have it serve as a full-time Academy program offering specialized, challenging courses available only at TJ to students who attend their base schools for their other classes, but both sides need to realize how they are degrading FCPS by allowing so much attention to be focused on a single school to the exclusion of other schools.
The Coalition for TJ and the TJAAG are both full of preening narcissists equally wedded to their own visions of what TJ should be (and completely disinterested in the other 97% of FCPS kids). And this ridiculous, utterly incompetent School Board that set the stage for this to happen needs to be sent packing next year - every last one of them.
I don't see why that's the preferable outcome versus having TJ continue to be a school where applicants are evaluated based on merit against standardized assessments. Sure there are preening narcissists, but just because a preening narcissist likes the taste of a banana, doesn't change the fact that bananas are delicious and healthy. There is a place in our society for merit-based identification and advancement of young scholars. There may be other goals that we as a society want to achieve and we can have those as additional programs. Let TJ remain doing what it has done so well as to earn the top rank among the nation's high schools.
Please outline the path for that to happen expeditiously and in a manner that, you know, actually allows the idiots on this School Board to pay some attention to the other 97% of kids in FCPS.
It's not my job to outline that path. I'm merely defending that TJ should stay on its prior non-racist path that caused it to become the #1 HS in the US. That the other problems are difficult is no excuse to implement racist policies for TJ. Any time the board spent fiddling with TJ could have been used for the other 97% of FCPS kids instead.
But your “mere defense” leaves the earlier point - which is that TJ admissions has become an unproductive waste of FCPS time, energy, and resources that harms other school communities - wholly unaddressed. It’s apparently time to wind it down or change TJ to a less controversial Academy program.
IMO, a less wasteful, but still selective method would be to take X% of the highest GPA from each school (because opportunities and options vary by school), and choose from among them by lottery. If they want to be a bit more selective, have like 3 letters of support submitted by 2 STEM/1 non-STEM teacher, and use that as guidance. Parents/kids can opt out if they don't want to be submitted for consideration.
I still don't see the justification as to why the original TJ policy needed to be changed. The underrepresentation of blacks/Latinos is caused by a resource gap and not a learning ability gap, so the solution is to increase resources rather than use some method to lower the entrance standard. We combat covid by delivering shots in arms, not by cherry picking who we test to get the desired infection rate.
That's been tried for decades with no results, but people who support that status quo love it because it pushes any changes down the road a few more years.
Failure at something is no excuse to engage in racist behaviors.
Of course, we just need a new plan that will take years to judge, and then a new plan after that, and maybe a few more. In the meantime, TJ can remain unsullied by poor kids
Now you are just giving up all pretense of being rational and logical, and appealing to emotion instead. Go ahead and wallow in your sorrow. Sad face.
When people are screaming that a school going form 75% to 55% of a population that comprises 20% of students is racist, logic is out the window.
You don’t get it, do you? Ends don’t justify the means - not in modern societies.
The process to get from 75% to 55% has to be above reproach. The FCPS process is not. And needs to be done away even if it yields a class that exactly represents the demographics of the county. If you don’t understand that and are stuck on the outcome then you don’t understand the issue that is being litigated.
Every day that goes by without the current admissions process being affirmed is one step closer to the Class of 2026 being selected by lottery. It would be wise for FCPS to make it known that this is their intent if the Supreme Court vacates the Fourth Circuit stay.
Any further action by the current board *except* for restoring original TJ process will be tainted with racist intent and challenged in court.
It does seem a little ironic that thus coalition for TJ demanding that the majority of the TJ spots go to one group in the name of fairness.
That's not what they are arguing for at all. You are just making stuff up. The coalition is asking for a non-racist admissions policy and let the student demographics be what they are as a result of natural competition.
"Natural competition" that is significantly aided - unquestionably - by parents leveraging their resources as heavily as possible to put their thumbs on the scales.
Why is it a problem for parents to provide resources to their children? Isn't this the entire goal of being a parent, to provide resources to children? Why should children with resources be penalized?
Why should they be rewarded for their parents' resources?
Why should they be penalized?
How is ignoring the benefits of the resources penalizing them?
Ignoring the benefit of resources was the status quo. The board is giving preference to kids with less resources, thus penalizing kids with resources.
The status quo was rewarding the resume padding and prepping
Still not a justification to penalize kids for having parents that provide resources for them.
It's a reason to discount their effects
You are going to have to provide a rational justification for that counter-intuitive thought. Given that human civilization progression has been one where children do better than their parents by leveraging the additional resources provided by their parents, it's natural and logical to not penalize children for the resources they receive from their parents.