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Anonymous wrote:On Reddit, people said the wife of one of the pilots is being treated horribly. She had asked for people to share photos of her husband, and someone replied they should share photos of CRJ victims.

My call to everyone is to do something nice for others.

Text your government friend and let them know you appreciate their work.

Hold the door for someone.

Text a friend or family member, and let them know you love them.

Hope we can preserve aspects of a healthy society where we treat each other well.

It is shockingly insensitive for families of the helicopter pilots to be seeking that kind of attention under the circumstances.

Don’t think those families are less devastated? You suck.

Of course they're probably devastated. But sometimes it is not appropriate to publicly ask others to join in your grieving.

She posted on her personal facebook page. Presumably, the only people that would be looking at it and sharing would be her friends and family. If "the public" doesn't want to share and join in her grieving, they don't need to look at her page.

Or she might not have understood that some posts are set to public. Plenty of people don’t understand the Facebook post settings.

People assuming she set her FB post to public and then trashed her for that are—again—small-minded people who can not envision a variety of possibilities.

So she made a mistake. Just like the helicopter pilots. Luckily her mistake didn't kill 64 innocent people.

The grieving spouse didn't "make a mistake". Bullies targeted her. Don't victim blame here.

And you have no idea what happened on the helicopter or if any "mistakes" were made.

No one is blaming the victims-- the 64 innocent people on the airplane.

You are blaming the victim. The widow is a victim on online bullying.

By the way that you're playing obtuse about it makes me think you were involved in that.

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Anonymous wrote:If she was such a perfect pilot let’s see her military records and all of her flight history. When was the last time she flew before the night in question? And who was the VIP they just dropped off?

What difference does the VIP make? This question keeps getting asked but I don't get how it would matter in the sequence of events that led to the cash.

How would the crash have happened at all if a VIP didn’t not want a ride? Not sure how you can’t see that.

No one onboard the BH made that decision. They took orders.

See posts above if you really want to know why it matters to know the VIP.

The point is, the 3 onboard did not CHOOSE to get that VIP. they are being vilified.

We want to know who the VIP was to know whether it waa truly an essential VIP trip. No one is
Blaming the crew for following orders. This goes above their heads.

The pilots need to fly regularly to keep their skills and hours up. They need to fly these specific routes regularly too as part of their training- as they were doing and getting signed off on that night. If not flying VIPs they still have to fly the hours and routes needed to keep proficient, even if not flying a VIP. How to do expect them to maintain skills? You think they can just circle over some open fields a few times per week and call it good?

Are you really this dense? No one is saying they don’t need training hours - only that the VIP flight may be the reason this “training” was shoehorned into such a dangerous time and place. The MAGA brain is so low wattage. Unreal.

Are YOU that dense? This particular night route was needed for their annual recertification- with or without the VIP drop off prior. They weren’t learning how to fly, it’s an annual sign off that they should have been able to do with zero issue. There was nothing at all complicated about it, the other plane did what it was supposed to do, ATC did what it was supposed to do. If the helicopter followed the very clear instructions and guidelines, everyone would be fine. But they didn’t. There is no indication of why this was anything but a routine flight

You can do a night route at 11pm though. You don't have to do it at a peak time for the airport. Especially for a training route, you'd think that that whoever assigned this training would have taken into account that this was a less experienced pilot, and especially given the myriad of close calls around National, including some in recent days, involving military helicopters, this particular training should not be scheduled for 8pm.

Unless the training was simply tacked on after a VIP drop off that had to happen at 7pm because the VIP said so.

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Anonymous wrote:I do think it’s odd all of the female pilot’s social media was completely scrubbed. But also her siblings and her parents.

Why? It’s the first thing I would do.

Because the other pilots and crew involved were released immediately, either willingly or not, I don’t know. They didn’t take extreme time and measures to erase all traces of them the public could potentially judge. And when you are involved in killing a bunch of people, the public will judge. By them not allowing military to release her name and then scrubbing all traces of narrative about her except what they explicitly publish, it seems like something is being hidden she would be judged harshly for- beyond her gender alone

Rebecca as a Captain outranked the copilot, how does that factor in to decision making?

It may have.

NVGs likely were a factor.

That the plane saw the BH at the last second and tried to evade is sad.

ATC could have been more explicit.

NVGs have been used for decades without this ever happening before now. Helicopters and planes don’t crash into each other weekly, monthly, daily. Stop making up excuses. ATC has been using the same commands and language for decade, as have pilots - this wasn’t invented yesterday.

The issue lies with the three in that helicopter. Full stop. The combination of those three individuals is the variable. That plane route was regular and common and the runways were not new.

Were they paying attention? Were they jacking around? ATC was directing dozens of planes all night without issue.

Helicopter behavior on the night in question is the issue here.

You don't know that.

You don't have all of the informaton.

We know the helicopter flew outside their route and well above their allowed altitude. We know that to them into the path of a landing airplane, when they were told by ATC to wait until it passed before proceeding.

We know the helicopter's behavior caused this. We just don't know why they did it.

You just don't know, period.

Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry I know this was all a big tragedy but if I had a loved one on that plane and I found out the pilot did not flow the ATC’s instructions and just slammed into the plane I would be livid at the incompetency. And these BH pilots certainly won’t be heroes in my opinion. But I am lucky not to have known anyone on that plane.

You don't know if any of that happened.

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Anonymous wrote:On Reddit, people said the wife of one of the pilots is being treated horribly. She had asked for people to share photos of her husband, and someone replied they should share photos of CRJ victims.

My call to everyone is to do something nice for others.

Text your government friend and let them know you appreciate their work.

Hold the door for someone.

Text a friend or family member, and let them know you love them.

Hope we can preserve aspects of a healthy society where we treat each other well.

It is shockingly insensitive for families of the helicopter pilots to be seeking that kind of attention under the circumstances.

Don’t think those families are less devastated? You suck.

Of course they're probably devastated. But sometimes it is not appropriate to publicly ask others to join in your grieving.

She posted on her personal facebook page. Presumably, the only people that would be looking at it and sharing would be her friends and family. If "the public" doesn't want to share and join in her grieving, they don't need to look at her page.

Or she might not have understood that some posts are set to public. Plenty of people don’t understand the Facebook post settings.

People assuming she set her FB post to public and then trashed her for that are—again—small-minded people who can not envision a variety of possibilities.

So she made a mistake. Just like the helicopter pilots. Luckily her mistake didn't kill 64 innocent people.

The grieving spouse didn't "make a mistake". Bullies targeted her. Don't victim blame here.

And you have no idea what happened on the helicopter or if any "mistakes" were made.

No one is blaming the victims-- the 64 innocent people on the airplane.

Just shut up. The three military members on the plane are victims too who died serving their country. People have accidents all the time. We don't crucify the people involved. You're a toxic ghoul.

If the helicopter crew had survived, what repercussions would they be facing?

Nobody knows. They are still investigating the collision.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On Reddit, people said the wife of one of the pilots is being treated horribly. She had asked for people to share photos of her husband, and someone replied they should share photos of CRJ victims.

My call to everyone is to do something nice for others.

Text your government friend and let them know you appreciate their work.

Hold the door for someone.

Text a friend or family member, and let them know you love them.

Hope we can preserve aspects of a healthy society where we treat each other well.

It is shockingly insensitive for families of the helicopter pilots to be seeking that kind of attention under the circumstances.

Don’t think those families are less devastated? You suck.

Of course they're probably devastated. But sometimes it is not appropriate to publicly ask others to join in your grieving.

She posted on her personal facebook page. Presumably, the only people that would be looking at it and sharing would be her friends and family. If "the public" doesn't want to share and join in her grieving, they don't need to look at her page.

Or she might not have understood that some posts are set to public. Plenty of people don’t understand the Facebook post settings.

People assuming she set her FB post to public and then trashed her for that are—again—small-minded people who can not envision a variety of possibilities.

So she made a mistake. Just like the helicopter pilots. Luckily her mistake didn't kill 64 innocent people.

The grieving spouse didn't "make a mistake". Bullies targeted her. Don't victim blame here.

And you have no idea what happened on the helicopter or if any "mistakes" were made.

No one is blaming the victims-- the 64 innocent people on the airplane.

Just shut up. The three military members on the plane are victims too who died serving their country. People have accidents all the time. We don't crucify the people involved. You're a toxic ghoul.

If the helicopter crew had survived, what repercussions would they be facing?

They'd almost certainly be court-martialed for flying outside their assigned route. The question is whether they'd face negligent homicide charges.

You don't know that. We don't know what caused the crash.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:FWIW I’m hearing it was simulating getting a govt official to safety as it was a COG (continuity of government) exercise.

“The missions are routine: In the event of a catastrophe, helicopters are often employed to usher government officials to safety.”

This is not secret intel, it's a direct CNN quote, so why not say so? These routine simulation exercises were widely covered in the news in the past couple of days.

"The soldiers on the Black Hawk were conducting what Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth described as an annual nighttime training on 'a continuity of government mission.' The missions are routine: In the event of a catastrophe, helicopters are often employed to usher government officials to safety. Crew members had night vision goggles, the defense secretary said."

Ok … even if training to evacuate VIP’s is necessary, why tf was it necessary for the evacuation route to go through DCA? Makes no sense.

Since you seem to know definitively that it makes no sense, please tell us where does the evacuation route they were training on go from and to (such that it makes no sense to pass by DCA)?

There are published helicopter routes, which go right by DCA every day. They’ve been talking about this in the news since day one. It’s not that they “just decided” to go by DCA, this was one of the approved helicopter routes… training or not.

They were outside that route-- too close to DCA and too high.

… and that’s the consequence of having a training route next to a civilian airport.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:If she was such a perfect pilot let’s see her military records and all of her flight history. When was the last time she flew before the night in question? And who was the VIP they just dropped off?

What difference does the VIP make? This question keeps getting asked but I don't get how it would matter in the sequence of events that led to the cash.

How would the crash have happened at all if a VIP didn’t not want a ride? Not sure how you can’t see that.

No one onboard the BH made that decision. They took orders.

See posts above if you really want to know why it matters to know the VIP.

The point is, the 3 onboard did not CHOOSE to get that VIP. they are being vilified.

We want to know who the VIP was to know whether it waa truly an essential VIP trip. No one is
Blaming the crew for following orders. This goes above their heads.

The pilots need to fly regularly to keep their skills and hours up. They need to fly these specific routes regularly too as part of their training- as they were doing and getting signed off on that night. If not flying VIPs they still have to fly the hours and routes needed to keep proficient, even if not flying a VIP. How to do expect them to maintain skills? You think they can just circle over some open fields a few times per week and call it good?

Are you really this dense? No one is saying they don’t need training hours - only that the VIP flight may be the reason this “training” was shoehorned into such a dangerous time and place. The MAGA brain is so low wattage. Unreal.

Are YOU that dense? This particular night route was needed for their annual recertification- with or without the VIP drop off prior. They weren’t learning how to fly, it’s an annual sign off that they should have been able to do with zero issue. There was nothing at all complicated about it, the other plane did what it was supposed to do, ATC did what it was supposed to do. If the helicopter followed the very clear instructions and guidelines, everyone would be fine. But they didn’t. There is no indication of why this was anything but a routine flight

it was only “needed” because someone higher up decided the risk to civilians was appropriate. That’s the point - there’s no justification to doing training in the middle of an already crowded civilian airspace.

I know that some people on here really want to blame the female pilot, but I ask you to ask yourselves if you were training someone and they were taking risks you weren’t comfortable with, isn’t it your responsibility to get them back into the realm of safety? And if the ATC is trying to make both pilots aware of a risk they are encountering, and you are in charge of answering, isn’t it your job to make sure you and the other pilot are aware of the risk the ATC is alerting you to before you answer in the affirmative and take responsibility for that risk?

Not trying to throw all the blame at the trainer, just think there was more than one failure here. I feel sorry for everyone involved in this situation.

And again, just to echo what other folks are saying, if this training was really just the return trip of the helo necessitated by some initial (and perhaps not really necessary) VIP trip, we deserve to know that, too.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:On Reddit, people said the wife of one of the pilots is being treated horribly. She had asked for people to share photos of her husband, and someone replied they should share photos of CRJ victims.

My call to everyone is to do something nice for others.

Text your government friend and let them know you appreciate their work.

Hold the door for someone.

Text a friend or family member, and let them know you love them.

Hope we can preserve aspects of a healthy society where we treat each other well.

It is shockingly insensitive for families of the helicopter pilots to be seeking that kind of attention under the circumstances.

Don’t think those families are less devastated? You suck.

Of course they're probably devastated. But sometimes it is not appropriate to publicly ask others to join in your grieving.

She posted on her personal facebook page. Presumably, the only people that would be looking at it and sharing would be her friends and family. If "the public" doesn't want to share and join in her grieving, they don't need to look at her page.

Or she might not have understood that some posts are set to public. Plenty of people don’t understand the Facebook post settings.

People assuming she set her FB post to public and then trashed her for that are—again—small-minded people who can not envision a variety of possibilities.

So she made a mistake. Just like the helicopter pilots. Luckily her mistake didn't kill 64 innocent people.

The grieving spouse didn't "make a mistake". Bullies targeted her. Don't victim blame here.

And you have no idea what happened on the helicopter or if any "mistakes" were made.

No one is blaming the victims-- the 64 innocent people on the airplane.

Just shut up. The three military members on the plane are victims too who died serving their country. People have accidents all the time. We don't crucify the people involved. You're a toxic ghoul.

If the helicopter crew had survived, what repercussions would they be facing?

They'd almost certainly be court-martialed for flying outside their assigned route. The question is whether they'd face negligent homicide charges.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW I’m hearing it was simulating getting a govt official to safety as it was a COG (continuity of government) exercise.

“The missions are routine: In the event of a catastrophe, helicopters are often employed to usher government officials to safety.”

This is not secret intel, it's a direct CNN quote, so why not say so? These routine simulation exercises were widely covered in the news in the past couple of days.

"The soldiers on the Black Hawk were conducting what Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth described as an annual nighttime training on 'a continuity of government mission.' The missions are routine: In the event of a catastrophe, helicopters are often employed to usher government officials to safety. Crew members had night vision goggles, the defense secretary said."

Ok … even if training to evacuate VIP’s is necessary, why tf was it necessary for the evacuation route to go through DCA? Makes no sense.

Since you seem to know definitively that it makes no sense, please tell us where does the evacuation route they were training on go from and to (such that it makes no sense to pass by DCA)?

There are published helicopter routes, which go right by DCA every day. They’ve been talking about this in the news since day one. It’s not that they “just decided” to go by DCA, this was one of the approved helicopter routes… training or not.

They were outside that route-- too close to DCA and too high.

Anonymous wrote:The new head of the Army already admitted, in Congressional testimony following this crash, that they should re-evaluate whether it makes sense to have training flights go through that corridor.

This is separate from the FAA's decision to restrict helicopter traffic in that area.

Some of you don't seem to understand that even if the pilots made horrible errors in judgment, they didn't choose to be there at that time. They didn't say "hey you know what would be cool -- let's do my annual night recertification next to a commercial airport at its busiest time! That will be awesome!" They were told, and they are in jobs where you do what you are told. And they died.

Is head of Army going to be placed on leave?

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On Reddit, people said the wife of one of the pilots is being treated horribly. She had asked for people to share photos of her husband, and someone replied they should share photos of CRJ victims.

My call to everyone is to do something nice for others.

Text your government friend and let them know you appreciate their work.

Hold the door for someone.

Text a friend or family member, and let them know you love them.

Hope we can preserve aspects of a healthy society where we treat each other well.

It is shockingly insensitive for families of the helicopter pilots to be seeking that kind of attention under the circumstances.

Don’t think those families are less devastated? You suck.

Of course they're probably devastated. But sometimes it is not appropriate to publicly ask others to join in your grieving.

She posted on her personal facebook page. Presumably, the only people that would be looking at it and sharing would be her friends and family. If "the public" doesn't want to share and join in her grieving, they don't need to look at her page.

Or she might not have understood that some posts are set to public. Plenty of people don’t understand the Facebook post settings.

People assuming she set her FB post to public and then trashed her for that are—again—small-minded people who can not envision a variety of possibilities.

So she made a mistake. Just like the helicopter pilots. Luckily her mistake didn't kill 64 innocent people.

The grieving spouse didn't "make a mistake". Bullies targeted her. Don't victim blame here.

And you have no idea what happened on the helicopter or if any "mistakes" were made.

No one is blaming the victims-- the 64 innocent people on the airplane.

Just shut up. The three military members on the plane are victims too who died serving their country. People have accidents all the time. We don't crucify the people involved. You're a toxic ghoul.

If the helicopter crew had survived, what repercussions would they be facing?

For following orders and then making some kind of flying error? They'd be grounded and have all their flying skills re-evaluated, probably put through mental and physical health checks to find out if there were any reason to believe the error represents a permanent inability to do that job. They might be permanently grounded depending on what was found but unless they engaged in intentionally reckless behavior, they wouldn't be court marshaled or thrown out. They followed orders.

My guess is that if they had lived, none of them would want to man a helicopter again because of the guilt associated with killing innocent civilians, and they'd like transfer or leave the military altogether. These all sound like good people who wanted to do good things for the world and their country. I am sure the guilt over this would be overwhelming for them.

You think they were ordered to fly outside the helicopter corridor and to ignore air traffic control? That's quite the accusation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If she was such a perfect pilot let’s see her military records and all of her flight history. When was the last time she flew before the night in question? And who was the VIP they just dropped off?

What difference does the VIP make? This question keeps getting asked but I don't get how it would matter in the sequence of events that led to the cash.

How would the crash have happened at all if a VIP didn’t not want a ride? Not sure how you can’t see that.

No one onboard the BH made that decision. They took orders.

See posts above if you really want to know why it matters to know the VIP.

The point is, the 3 onboard did not CHOOSE to get that VIP. they are being vilified.

We want to know who the VIP was to know whether it waa truly an essential VIP trip. No one is
Blaming the crew for following orders. This goes above their heads.

The pilots need to fly regularly to keep their skills and hours up. They need to fly these specific routes regularly too as part of their training- as they were doing and getting signed off on that night. If not flying VIPs they still have to fly the hours and routes needed to keep proficient, even if not flying a VIP. How to do expect them to maintain skills? You think they can just circle over some open fields a few times per week and call it good?

Are you really this dense? No one is saying they don’t need training hours - only that the VIP flight may be the reason this “training” was shoehorned into such a dangerous time and place. The MAGA brain is so low wattage. Unreal.

Are YOU that dense? This particular night route was needed for their annual recertification- with or without the VIP drop off prior. They weren’t learning how to fly, it’s an annual sign off that they should have been able to do with zero issue. There was nothing at all complicated about it, the other plane did what it was supposed to do, ATC did what it was supposed to do. If the helicopter followed the very clear instructions and guidelines, everyone would be fine. But they didn’t. There is no indication of why this was anything but a routine flight

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On Reddit, people said the wife of one of the pilots is being treated horribly. She had asked for people to share photos of her husband, and someone replied they should share photos of CRJ victims.

My call to everyone is to do something nice for others.

Text your government friend and let them know you appreciate their work.

Hold the door for someone.

Text a friend or family member, and let them know you love them.

Hope we can preserve aspects of a healthy society where we treat each other well.

It is shockingly insensitive for families of the helicopter pilots to be seeking that kind of attention under the circumstances.

Don’t think those families are less devastated? You suck.

Of course they're probably devastated. But sometimes it is not appropriate to publicly ask others to join in your grieving.

She posted on her personal facebook page. Presumably, the only people that would be looking at it and sharing would be her friends and family. If "the public" doesn't want to share and join in her grieving, they don't need to look at her page.

Or she might not have understood that some posts are set to public. Plenty of people don’t understand the Facebook post settings.

People assuming she set her FB post to public and then trashed her for that are—again—small-minded people who can not envision a variety of possibilities.

So she made a mistake. Just like the helicopter pilots. Luckily her mistake didn't kill 64 innocent people.

The grieving spouse didn't "make a mistake". Bullies targeted her. Don't victim blame here.

And you have no idea what happened on the helicopter or if any "mistakes" were made.

No one is blaming the victims-- the 64 innocent people on the airplane.

Just shut up. The three military members on the plane are victims too who died serving their country. People have accidents all the time. We don't crucify the people involved. You're a toxic ghoul.

If the helicopter crew had survived, what repercussions would they be facing?

For following orders and then making some kind of flying error? They'd be grounded and have all their flying skills re-evaluated, probably put through mental and physical health checks to find out if there were any reason to believe the error represents a permanent inability to do that job. They might be permanently grounded depending on what was found but unless they engaged in intentionally reckless behavior, they wouldn't be court marshaled or thrown out. They followed orders.

My guess is that if they had lived, none of them would want to man a helicopter again because of the guilt associated with killing innocent civilians, and they'd like transfer or leave the military altogether. These all sound like good people who wanted to do good things for the world and their country. I am sure the guilt over this would be overwhelming for them.