Anonymous
09/23/2021 16:46
Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I wonder where those of y’all portraying this woman as an isolated depressed party girl into weird and edgy things like Burning Man and integral counseling live. I live on the west coast now after 15 years in DC and nothing about this woman’s life as described factually sounds like a red flag to me. Minus the deaths, this could describe a number of people I know. Hiring cleaners and a nanny are also super common among the wealthy in the United States pretty much everywhere. None of the things described are culturally out of context for this family, and none of them are giant red flags about murder-suicide. The only way y’all can make the connection between known facts about the case and your interpretations are to add a lot of subjective details around the facts. It’s absolutely fine to speculate. Just maybe try to remember that you ARE speculating.
Y’all are also reaching about her unhappiness outside the city. I’m sure that applies to some people, but I’d imagine an equal number of people are pleased about their changed circumstances. I know I was relieved when we moved to a place with a slower pace.
This! I was the PP many many pages ago who said people are grasping at straws who don’t know anything about how mundane things like pot, mushrooms, Burning Man, integral psychology, yoga are. Also the level of wealth in the SF tech scene is staggering. Signed, former SF resident married to a tech guy
CA is no dif’ than any other state as far as the people. You only think you are cooler. They led a non conventional life. Nothing wrong with that. The wrong is MS or FA.
Signed, been all over and around more than one block.
Anonymous
09/23/2021 16:46
Subject: Re:What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:She was isolated because they lived in a forest, 20 miles from the nearest town, the one with the whopping population of 1,800.
Her friends were in the city and I do not think many if any would have had babies at 30. She was going to school remotely. Jon had prior ties to Mariopsa but she did not. The median age in the small town is in the 50s, Jon was not far off but Ellen was only 30. How many new moms were there for her to befriend?
Coming and going is relative when you are in the middle of nowhere.
I was looking for a way to message you, I guess that’s not possible.
Do you know if anyone had contact with this family on Saturday?
Scanning back through posts I noted one inquiring if the kid was perhaps DOA to the forest. Could the child have died from an in home accident and J & E freaked?
20 miles is far from town, I think. Where they lived would be pitch black at night, I’d be terrified.
You city folk are funny. It's rarely pitch black, even in the country.
Actually it is - signed someone with a country house. The stars aren’t that bright and no ambient lighting or direct lighting makes everything five feet in front of you look like the abyss.
I spent the 11 years on a rural farm growing up. The moon so bright most nights it will cast shadows. It's only dark in overgrown forests.
Anonymous
09/23/2021 16:44
Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I wonder where those of y’all portraying this woman as an isolated depressed party girl into weird and edgy things like Burning Man and integral counseling live. I live on the west coast now after 15 years in DC and nothing about this woman’s life as described factually sounds like a red flag to me. Minus the deaths, this could describe a number of people I know. Hiring cleaners and a nanny are also super common among the wealthy in the United States pretty much everywhere. None of the things described are culturally out of context for this family, and none of them are giant red flags about murder-suicide. The only way y’all can make the connection between known facts about the case and your interpretations are to add a lot of subjective details around the facts. It’s absolutely fine to speculate. Just maybe try to remember that you ARE speculating.
Y’all are also reaching about her unhappiness outside the city. I’m sure that applies to some people, but I’d imagine an equal number of people are pleased about their changed circumstances. I know I was relieved when we moved to a place with a slower pace.
This! I was the PP many many pages ago who said people are grasping at straws who don’t know anything about how mundane things like pot, mushrooms, Burning Man, integral psychology, yoga are. Also the level of wealth in the SF tech scene is staggering. Signed, former SF resident married to a tech guy
Here on the east coast, yoga is a "gateway drug" to alternative medicine. From there, it's just a few steps to suicide apparently.
Anonymous
09/23/2021 16:43
Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Ellen studied integral medicine which I find concerning when coupled with what occurred.
Integral medicine is about being concerned with the whole person rather than the disease; calling on the universal life force (prana or chi) manifested mentally, physically and spiritually.
Um .. what
That’s quite a reach. You people are grasping at straws.
No that actual makes sense. She was into non-allopathic medicine and if she had PPD - if would have felt like a professional and personal failure not to overcome her depression with holistic treatment.
If OCD about her yoga discipline and diet I wonder how she felt about John and baby not practicing the same regimen. Was John the type to eat a gourd or a handful of seeds or was he a meat and potato guy?
Anonymous
09/23/2021 16:38
Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:I wonder where those of y’all portraying this woman as an isolated depressed party girl into weird and edgy things like Burning Man and integral counseling live. I live on the west coast now after 15 years in DC and nothing about this woman’s life as described factually sounds like a red flag to me. Minus the deaths, this could describe a number of people I know. Hiring cleaners and a nanny are also super common among the wealthy in the United States pretty much everywhere. None of the things described are culturally out of context for this family, and none of them are giant red flags about murder-suicide. The only way y’all can make the connection between known facts about the case and your interpretations are to add a lot of subjective details around the facts. It’s absolutely fine to speculate. Just maybe try to remember that you ARE speculating.
Y’all are also reaching about her unhappiness outside the city. I’m sure that applies to some people, but I’d imagine an equal number of people are pleased about their changed circumstances. I know I was relieved when we moved to a place with a slower pace.
This! I was the PP many many pages ago who said people are grasping at straws who don’t know anything about how mundane things like pot, mushrooms, Burning Man, integral psychology, yoga are. Also the level of wealth in the SF tech scene is staggering. Signed, former SF resident married to a tech guy
Anonymous
09/23/2021 16:26
Subject: Re:What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:I agree. About as likely as an entire family dying from HS after carrying a dog, kid, pack, etc.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:She was isolated because they lived in a forest, 20 miles from the nearest town, the one with the whopping population of 1,800.
Her friends were in the city and I do not think many if any would have had babies at 30. She was going to school remotely. Jon had prior ties to Mariopsa but she did not. The median age in the small town is in the 50s, Jon was not far off but Ellen was only 30. How many new moms were there for her to befriend?
Coming and going is relative when you are in the middle of nowhere.
I was looking for a way to message you, I guess that’s not possible.
Do you know if anyone had contact with this family on Saturday?
Scanning back through posts I noted one inquiring if the kid was perhaps DOA to the forest. Could the child have died from an in home accident and J & E freaked?
20 miles is far from town, I think. Where they lived would be pitch black at night, I’d be terrified.
I think the idea that the baby died on Saturday and they staged this on Sunday seems to be a bit of a stretch.
Jon grew up in a more rural area and had been buying and and visiting Mariposa for years.
If it turned out not to be a great fit for Ellen she was stuck.
It still could have been accidental. And I think the likelihood of any other finding without significant tox evidence is low and that evidence would be impacted by the time in the heat on the trail for days prior to removal of the bodies on Wednesday. So regardless of what happened, we are unlikely to get some lurid finding.
When it's 109+ with no shade and there is a very steep and long climb of almost 2,000 feet to get out of Devil's Gulch...it could tax any adult. And pausing to aid someone stricken, whether the dog, baby or Jon found sitting, could run out the clock for the other adult's ability to function in and survive the heat. Once the brain starts to heat up organs begin to shut down. https://www.outsideonline.com/health/wellness/heat-stroke-signs-symptoms/#:~:text=What%20It%20Feels%20Like%20to%20Die%20from%20Heatstroke,starts.%20Heatstroke%20kills%20thousands%20of%20people%20every%20year.
The question really is, why were they out there in that terrain in that heat? A misjudgment or intentional? The heat and "aggressive" trail play a role either way. And we may never know the answer to that question. With the high heat and bodies on the trail until Wednesday, possible findings would be impacted.
The "whole family" is just dramatic phrasing. The dog was tethered and the baby was in a pack. Could 2 adults be overcome by heat on a steep uphill climb in 109+ degree weather, with a 30 lb pack and possibly carrying a midsized dog? Of course. With no shade it is not unlikely at all.
Anonymous
09/23/2021 16:18
Subject: Re:What happened to this California family?
I think they used a house manager to manage properties, not a house manager in the sense of someone who supervised staff and ran the household? But maybe they had someone who functioned in that capacity as well.
Very sad that all lost their lives so young.
Could be accidental, could be intentional but not sure any evidence would have survived days of baking in the sun. Tox screens have limits and time and heat impact findings.
Very sad that all lost their lives so young.
Could be accidental, could be intentional but not sure any evidence would have survived days of baking in the sun. Tox screens have limits and time and heat impact findings.
Anonymous
09/23/2021 16:16
Subject: What happened to this California family?
I wonder where those of y’all portraying this woman as an isolated depressed party girl into weird and edgy things like Burning Man and integral counseling live. I live on the west coast now after 15 years in DC and nothing about this woman’s life as described factually sounds like a red flag to me. Minus the deaths, this could describe a number of people I know. Hiring cleaners and a nanny are also super common among the wealthy in the United States pretty much everywhere. None of the things described are culturally out of context for this family, and none of them are giant red flags about murder-suicide. The only way y’all can make the connection between known facts about the case and your interpretations are to add a lot of subjective details around the facts. It’s absolutely fine to speculate. Just maybe try to remember that you ARE speculating.
Y’all are also reaching about her unhappiness outside the city. I’m sure that applies to some people, but I’d imagine an equal number of people are pleased about their changed circumstances. I know I was relieved when we moved to a place with a slower pace.
Y’all are also reaching about her unhappiness outside the city. I’m sure that applies to some people, but I’d imagine an equal number of people are pleased about their changed circumstances. I know I was relieved when we moved to a place with a slower pace.
Anonymous
09/23/2021 16:15
Subject: Re:What happened to this California family?
I agree. About as likely as an entire family dying from HS after carrying a dog, kid, pack, etc.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:She was isolated because they lived in a forest, 20 miles from the nearest town, the one with the whopping population of 1,800.
Her friends were in the city and I do not think many if any would have had babies at 30. She was going to school remotely. Jon had prior ties to Mariopsa but she did not. The median age in the small town is in the 50s, Jon was not far off but Ellen was only 30. How many new moms were there for her to befriend?
Coming and going is relative when you are in the middle of nowhere.
I was looking for a way to message you, I guess that’s not possible.
Do you know if anyone had contact with this family on Saturday?
Scanning back through posts I noted one inquiring if the kid was perhaps DOA to the forest. Could the child have died from an in home accident and J & E freaked?
20 miles is far from town, I think. Where they lived would be pitch black at night, I’d be terrified.
I think the idea that the baby died on Saturday and they staged this on Sunday seems to be a bit of a stretch.
Jon grew up in a more rural area and had been buying and and visiting Mariposa for years.
If it turned out not to be a great fit for Ellen she was stuck.
It still could have been accidental. And I think the likelihood of any other finding without significant tox evidence is low and that evidence would be impacted by the time in the heat on the trail for days prior to removal of the bodies on Wednesday. So regardless of what happened, we are unlikely to get some lurid finding.
Anonymous
09/23/2021 16:13
Subject: What happened to this California family?
This get wilder with each post. She was heavily engaged in yoga and currently studying integrated sciences. Did she overload her mind..
We know what Confucianism says about suicide.
If her husband didn’t follow the same disciplines that would be a huge problem.
We know what Confucianism says about suicide.
If her husband didn’t follow the same disciplines that would be a huge problem.
Anonymous
09/23/2021 15:56
Subject: Re:What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:^ buying in
The chatty friend/neighbor seems to be a lot like Jon, tech bro from SF who moved to Mariposa and started investing in RE. He may well have been the house manager. Did Ellen have folks she bonded with? Any new mom friends?
No, Steve is not the house manager. He was in Croatia when this tragedy unfolded. John used a different management team than Steve.
Steve’s houses are booked since the deaths. I know someone that booked a trip. Not because of this incident, they’d planned for some time and just got around to booking. They’re kind of nervous due to poor reviews. But they’ll try anything once.
Anonymous
09/23/2021 15:52
Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Ellen studied integral medicine which I find concerning when coupled with what occurred.
Integral medicine is about being concerned with the whole person rather than the disease; calling on the universal life force (prana or chi) manifested mentally, physically and spiritually.
Um .. what
That’s quite a reach. You people are grasping at straws.
No that actual makes sense. She was into non-allopathic medicine and if she had PPD - if would have felt like a professional and personal failure not to overcome her depression with holistic treatment.
And some tend to take these things too far. Hugging trees won’t improve quality of life afaik.
How can I increase my prana?
We can increase prana through the Earth element by living in nature (for example, camping), walking on earth barefoot, touching the earth (gardening), hugging trees, looking at mountains, eating fresh picked fruits and vegetables, living in natural houses; and above all respecting nature.
Anonymous
09/23/2021 15:52
Subject: Re:What happened to this California family?
^ buying in
The chatty friend/neighbor seems to be a lot like Jon, tech bro from SF who moved to Mariposa and started investing in RE. He may well have been the house manager. Did Ellen have folks she bonded with? Any new mom friends?
The chatty friend/neighbor seems to be a lot like Jon, tech bro from SF who moved to Mariposa and started investing in RE. He may well have been the house manager. Did Ellen have folks she bonded with? Any new mom friends?
Anonymous
09/23/2021 15:50
Subject: Re:What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:She was isolated because they lived in a forest, 20 miles from the nearest town, the one with the whopping population of 1,800.
Her friends were in the city and I do not think many if any would have had babies at 30. She was going to school remotely. Jon had prior ties to Mariopsa but she did not. The median age in the small town is in the 50s, Jon was not far off but Ellen was only 30. How many new moms were there for her to befriend?
Coming and going is relative when you are in the middle of nowhere.
I was looking for a way to message you, I guess that’s not possible.
Do you know if anyone had contact with this family on Saturday?
Scanning back through posts I noted one inquiring if the kid was perhaps DOA to the forest. Could the child have died from an in home accident and J & E freaked?
20 miles is far from town, I think. Where they lived would be pitch black at night, I’d be terrified.
I think the idea that the baby died on Saturday and they staged this on Sunday seems to be a bit of a stretch.
Jon grew up in a more rural area and had been buying and and visiting Mariposa for years.
If it turned out not to be a great fit for Ellen she was stuck.
It still could have been accidental. And I think the likelihood of any other finding without significant tox evidence is low and that evidence would be impacted by the time in the heat on the trail for days prior to removal of the bodies on Wednesday. So regardless of what happened, we are unlikely to get some lurid finding.
Anonymous
09/23/2021 15:40
Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Ellen studied integral medicine which I find concerning when coupled with what occurred.
Integral medicine is about being concerned with the whole person rather than the disease; calling on the universal life force (prana or chi) manifested mentally, physically and spiritually.
Um .. what
That’s quite a reach. You people are grasping at straws.
No that actual makes sense. She was into non-allopathic medicine and if she had PPD - if would have felt like a professional and personal failure not to overcome her depression with holistic treatment.
Genius, you’re onto something.👍👍
Unfortunately it appears moving to nowhere was not the answer. My theory and I’m sticking with it.