Anonymous
03/07/2022 18:46
Subject: Re:US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:IMO we need elder statesmen to be involved in some type of diplomatic resolution (and maybe they are, behind the scenes) Obama, Clinton, Bush, even Jimmy Carter. We need seasoned experienced leaders to get involved and behind this.
You are joking.
The same "seasoned experienced leaders" who have got us where we are?
I agree this administration has failed in its efforts. And, it makes me angry.
They didn't enact sanctions soon enough.
They didn't send lethal arms to Ukraine for their defense soon enough, even though they had weeks if not months to do this.
They are still buying oil from Russia.
These are the same people who planned the withdrawal from Afghanistan, so I was not optimistic.
But, most of the people you listed are not any more capable of dealing with Russia. Remember Hillary's "reset" with Russia? Remember what happened to Crimea under Obama?
And, Jimmy Carter? Probably the worst in terms of decision making when it comes to foreign policy?
No thanks.
Most of the things you suggest would have rapidly and needlessly escalated the situation. Also would have made it impossible for US to rally support from around the world and would have antagonized China.
We can't keep overstretching ourselves in conflicts around the world. The painful reality is that our leadership has to make very tough choices. I think Biden and team have handled this very well thus far.
BS. The situation escalated on Putin's timeline because we didn't act.
You are believing the narrative this administration is spinning because they have been utter failures.
The US was warning the world that Putin was going to invade, and no one believed them. Plenty of people on this site didn't believe it. How much could the US have done at that point?
Once Putin made the decision to invade, there was nothing the US could have done. Sending in troops to Ukraine would have led to Russians shooting at US soldiers, and vice versa. Does anyone really want the countries that hold the world’s two largest nuclear arsenals shooting at each other?
Honestly, we should have been more aggressive with Putin after he annexed Crimea. The US and European response to that was weak and sent the message to Putin that he could escalate and the response would not be anything he couldn’t handle.
By doing what? Specifically?
And how do you suppose Trump repeating Russian propaganda and the GOP falling in line may have negatively impacted things over the past 4 years?
I never said Trump didn’t negatively impact things, but if you’ve been following Russia since 2014, you can see that the cycle of Putin becoming more aggressive globally really started with the Crimea annexation and the lackluster Western response.
Specifically, we should have placed US/NATO forces on high alert and placed US aircraft carriers in the Bosporus strait. European leaders should have called Putin and told him that if he does not withdraw all Russian presence from Crimea (outside of Black Sea fleet access, which we could negotiate), we will not remove the carriers. Blocking him into the Black Sea would have been disastrous for him and I believe there’s a chance he would have backed down at that point.
Republicans would not support any democrat president. You reap what you sow.
Like I noted.
You can live life under fantasy and conjecture but it’s not healthy so seek help.
But what we DO KNOW and can PROVE:
Under Trump:
Heavy sanctions on Russia
No Wars
Russia didn’t invade Ukraine
Under Biden
Lifted sanctions
Zelensky and others tried to encourage Biden to our sanctions back on, Biden refused
Russia invaded Ukraine
Under Obama:
Russia annexes Crimea
Weak response led by US hurts Russia a little but not enough
Russia continues to be belligerent
Those are facts we can actually see.
Under trump
- trump meets with Putin by himself who knows what deal was struck.
- Trump tries to breakup nato
- trump tries to stop all weapon deals with Ukraine
- trump threatens Ukraine
- Putin places bounties on US military personnel
- Russians attack use forces in Syria
- Russian systematically attack US elections
- Russians lunch hacking attacks against US.
- all conservatives organizations(NRA, etc) are under Russia influence
- republicans storm the Capitol with Russian support
- all republicans/conservatives fall inline with trump’s Putin love.
Under Democrat President
- republicans/conservatives undermine any action against Russia
- republicans/conservatives blindly support Putin.
- republicans/conservatives work to destroy NATO
Once again conjecture with little or no facts.
Lien I said
Under Trump:
No war
No invasion
Economic prosperity despite the lefts attempts to undermine all of it
Under Biden:
High gas prices
Empty shelves
Skyrocketing inflation
War
Chaos
Listed sanctions despite resistance from Zelensky and others who said it was a bad idea
Imports more Russian oil
Those are visible and tangible facts.
They are also outcomes from previous administrations. Nothing happens in a vacuum. Changes in policy on a national or global scale are hardly ever immediate. Its built upon what has previously happened.
With that comment, I think it appropriate to take a trip down memory lane.
With your comment and incorrect memory lane, it is important to correct you.
They laughed at him for being boastful and stupid.
“Even more world leaders appeared to join in mocking Trump last year during his speech at the United Nations. Trump made one of his characteristically hyperbolic claims about his achievements as president — “In less than two years, my administration has accomplished more than almost any administration in the history of our country” — and drew audible laughter.”
It's amazing how correct Trump has proven to have been........
Yes, certainly the entire UN has never laughed at a President before, so that is indeed an accomplishment.
Anonymous
03/07/2022 18:22
Subject: Re:US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous wrote:
none of them or you know what you would feel living in Ukraine, this is just complete stupidity. None of you have any clue what the situation was there and how you felt about their internal politics in the first place, because you didn't live there. So, all of this is empty talk and a waste of time.
Especially when their defacto leader was the biggest blowhard coward on the planet …
Anonymous
03/07/2022 18:21
Subject: Re:US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous
03/07/2022 18:20
Subject: Re:US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:IMO we need elder statesmen to be involved in some type of diplomatic resolution (and maybe they are, behind the scenes) Obama, Clinton, Bush, even Jimmy Carter. We need seasoned experienced leaders to get involved and behind this.
You are joking.
The same "seasoned experienced leaders" who have got us where we are?
I agree this administration has failed in its efforts. And, it makes me angry.
They didn't enact sanctions soon enough.
They didn't send lethal arms to Ukraine for their defense soon enough, even though they had weeks if not months to do this.
They are still buying oil from Russia.
These are the same people who planned the withdrawal from Afghanistan, so I was not optimistic.
But, most of the people you listed are not any more capable of dealing with Russia. Remember Hillary's "reset" with Russia? Remember what happened to Crimea under Obama?
And, Jimmy Carter? Probably the worst in terms of decision making when it comes to foreign policy?
No thanks.
Most of the things you suggest would have rapidly and needlessly escalated the situation. Also would have made it impossible for US to rally support from around the world and would have antagonized China.
We can't keep overstretching ourselves in conflicts around the world. The painful reality is that our leadership has to make very tough choices. I think Biden and team have handled this very well thus far.
BS. The situation escalated on Putin's timeline because we didn't act.
You are believing the narrative this administration is spinning because they have been utter failures.
The US was warning the world that Putin was going to invade, and no one believed them. Plenty of people on this site didn't believe it. How much could the US have done at that point?
Once Putin made the decision to invade, there was nothing the US could have done. Sending in troops to Ukraine would have led to Russians shooting at US soldiers, and vice versa. Does anyone really want the countries that hold the world’s two largest nuclear arsenals shooting at each other?
Honestly, we should have been more aggressive with Putin after he annexed Crimea. The US and European response to that was weak and sent the message to Putin that he could escalate and the response would not be anything he couldn’t handle.
By doing what? Specifically?
And how do you suppose Trump repeating Russian propaganda and the GOP falling in line may have negatively impacted things over the past 4 years?
I never said Trump didn’t negatively impact things, but if you’ve been following Russia since 2014, you can see that the cycle of Putin becoming more aggressive globally really started with the Crimea annexation and the lackluster Western response.
Specifically, we should have placed US/NATO forces on high alert and placed US aircraft carriers in the Bosporus strait. European leaders should have called Putin and told him that if he does not withdraw all Russian presence from Crimea (outside of Black Sea fleet access, which we could negotiate), we will not remove the carriers. Blocking him into the Black Sea would have been disastrous for him and I believe there’s a chance he would have backed down at that point.
Republicans would not support any democrat president. You reap what you sow.
Like I noted.
You can live life under fantasy and conjecture but it’s not healthy so seek help.
But what we DO KNOW and can PROVE:
Under Trump:
Heavy sanctions on Russia
No Wars
Russia didn’t invade Ukraine
Under Biden
Lifted sanctions
Zelensky and others tried to encourage Biden to our sanctions back on, Biden refused
Russia invaded Ukraine
Under Obama:
Russia annexes Crimea
Weak response led by US hurts Russia a little but not enough
Russia continues to be belligerent
Those are facts we can actually see.
Under trump
- trump meets with Putin by himself who knows what deal was struck.
- Trump tries to breakup nato
- trump tries to stop all weapon deals with Ukraine
- trump threatens Ukraine
- Putin places bounties on US military personnel
- Russians attack use forces in Syria
- Russian systematically attack US elections
- Russians lunch hacking attacks against US.
- all conservatives organizations(NRA, etc) are under Russia influence
- republicans storm the Capitol with Russian support
- all republicans/conservatives fall inline with trump’s Putin love.
Under Democrat President
- republicans/conservatives undermine any action against Russia
- republicans/conservatives blindly support Putin.
- republicans/conservatives work to destroy NATO
Once again conjecture with little or no facts.
Lien I said
Under Trump:
No war
No invasion
Economic prosperity despite the lefts attempts to undermine all of it
Under Biden:
High gas prices
Empty shelves
Skyrocketing inflation
War
Chaos
Listed sanctions despite resistance from Zelensky and others who said it was a bad idea
Imports more Russian oil
Those are visible and tangible facts.
They are also outcomes from previous administrations. Nothing happens in a vacuum. Changes in policy on a national or global scale are hardly ever immediate. Its built upon what has previously happened.
With that comment, I think it appropriate to take a trip down memory lane.
He can state being against Russian Oil/one source being foolhardy while also being pro-Putin. Trump wanted to expand American oil because he is about American business. The Polish oil line he referenced is (I assume) the one run by the Saudis. Saudi > Russia in Trumps needs so in that moment Russia was the bad one. Nothing should ever be looked at in isolation with Trump. It always has some personal grift behind it.
He also tried to pull USA out of NATO and pushed for Putin to be invited back into G7.
He acted like Putin’s poodle at international forums and showered him in praise.
Trump has zero credibility as being tough on Russia …
IDK, whatever he did we were not on the brink of a freaking WW3 with a nuclear power. When he won in 2016 I was horrified something like this would happen during Trump's presidency. The irony. To put it in simple terms, none of us was giving this much thought to a mere possibility of a nuclear war, and now there is this probability even if statistically tiny. You know that some people are already looking at freaking fallout maps? This is awesome credibility here
Is this some kind of weak argument to say that Putin only tried to pull this off because of who the American president is at this very moment? Do you think we might still be here if Trump was president, and it just had to do with timing? Unless you have heard the reasons for Putin's timing directly from Putin's lips, this is a story made up to feed some kind of narrative. How about try some critical thinking.
Anonymous
03/07/2022 18:15
Subject: Re:US has no good options in Ukraine
Hypotheticals mean nothing. Nobody knows what they would do, so it's pure conjecture. If this is trying to insinuate that Republicans are somehow more patriotic than Democrats, then nope. Here's a poll from January that shows Republicans are nearly twice as likely as Democrats to agree that violence against the government is justified. Should we then posit that Republicans are just more violent, period?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/01/01/1-3-americans-say-violence-against-government-can-be-justified-citing-fears-political-schism-pandemic/
Anonymous
03/07/2022 18:13
Subject: Re:US has no good options in Ukraine
none of them or you know what you would feel living in Ukraine, this is just complete stupidity. None of you have any clue what the situation was there and how you felt about their internal politics in the first place, because you didn't live there. So, all of this is empty talk and a waste of time.
Anonymous
03/07/2022 18:09
Subject: Re:US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:IMO we need elder statesmen to be involved in some type of diplomatic resolution (and maybe they are, behind the scenes) Obama, Clinton, Bush, even Jimmy Carter. We need seasoned experienced leaders to get involved and behind this.
You are joking.
The same "seasoned experienced leaders" who have got us where we are?
I agree this administration has failed in its efforts. And, it makes me angry.
They didn't enact sanctions soon enough.
They didn't send lethal arms to Ukraine for their defense soon enough, even though they had weeks if not months to do this.
They are still buying oil from Russia.
These are the same people who planned the withdrawal from Afghanistan, so I was not optimistic.
But, most of the people you listed are not any more capable of dealing with Russia. Remember Hillary's "reset" with Russia? Remember what happened to Crimea under Obama?
And, Jimmy Carter? Probably the worst in terms of decision making when it comes to foreign policy?
No thanks.
Most of the things you suggest would have rapidly and needlessly escalated the situation. Also would have made it impossible for US to rally support from around the world and would have antagonized China.
We can't keep overstretching ourselves in conflicts around the world. The painful reality is that our leadership has to make very tough choices. I think Biden and team have handled this very well thus far.
BS. The situation escalated on Putin's timeline because we didn't act.
You are believing the narrative this administration is spinning because they have been utter failures.
The US was warning the world that Putin was going to invade, and no one believed them. Plenty of people on this site didn't believe it. How much could the US have done at that point?
Once Putin made the decision to invade, there was nothing the US could have done. Sending in troops to Ukraine would have led to Russians shooting at US soldiers, and vice versa. Does anyone really want the countries that hold the world’s two largest nuclear arsenals shooting at each other?
Honestly, we should have been more aggressive with Putin after he annexed Crimea. The US and European response to that was weak and sent the message to Putin that he could escalate and the response would not be anything he couldn’t handle.
By doing what? Specifically?
And how do you suppose Trump repeating Russian propaganda and the GOP falling in line may have negatively impacted things over the past 4 years?
I never said Trump didn’t negatively impact things, but if you’ve been following Russia since 2014, you can see that the cycle of Putin becoming more aggressive globally really started with the Crimea annexation and the lackluster Western response.
Specifically, we should have placed US/NATO forces on high alert and placed US aircraft carriers in the Bosporus strait. European leaders should have called Putin and told him that if he does not withdraw all Russian presence from Crimea (outside of Black Sea fleet access, which we could negotiate), we will not remove the carriers. Blocking him into the Black Sea would have been disastrous for him and I believe there’s a chance he would have backed down at that point.
Republicans would not support any democrat president. You reap what you sow.
Like I noted.
You can live life under fantasy and conjecture but it’s not healthy so seek help.
But what we DO KNOW and can PROVE:
Under Trump:
Heavy sanctions on Russia
No Wars
Russia didn’t invade Ukraine
Under Biden
Lifted sanctions
Zelensky and others tried to encourage Biden to our sanctions back on, Biden refused
Russia invaded Ukraine
Under Obama:
Russia annexes Crimea
Weak response led by US hurts Russia a little but not enough
Russia continues to be belligerent
Those are facts we can actually see.
Under trump
- trump meets with Putin by himself who knows what deal was struck.
- Trump tries to breakup nato
- trump tries to stop all weapon deals with Ukraine
- trump threatens Ukraine
- Putin places bounties on US military personnel
- Russians attack use forces in Syria
- Russian systematically attack US elections
- Russians lunch hacking attacks against US.
- all conservatives organizations(NRA, etc) are under Russia influence
- republicans storm the Capitol with Russian support
- all republicans/conservatives fall inline with trump’s Putin love.
Under Democrat President
- republicans/conservatives undermine any action against Russia
- republicans/conservatives blindly support Putin.
- republicans/conservatives work to destroy NATO
Once again conjecture with little or no facts.
Lien I said
Under Trump:
No war
No invasion
Economic prosperity despite the lefts attempts to undermine all of it
Under Biden:
High gas prices
Empty shelves
Skyrocketing inflation
War
Chaos
Listed sanctions despite resistance from Zelensky and others who said it was a bad idea
Imports more Russian oil
Those are visible and tangible facts.
They are also outcomes from previous administrations. Nothing happens in a vacuum. Changes in policy on a national or global scale are hardly ever immediate. Its built upon what has previously happened.
With that comment, I think it appropriate to take a trip down memory lane.
He can state being against Russian Oil/one source being foolhardy while also being pro-Putin. Trump wanted to expand American oil because he is about American business. The Polish oil line he referenced is (I assume) the one run by the Saudis. Saudi > Russia in Trumps needs so in that moment Russia was the bad one. Nothing should ever be looked at in isolation with Trump. It always has some personal grift behind it.
He also tried to pull USA out of NATO and pushed for Putin to be invited back into G7.
He acted like Putin’s poodle at international forums and showered him in praise.
Trump has zero credibility as being tough on Russia …
IDK, whatever he did we were not on the brink of a freaking WW3 with a nuclear power. When he won in 2016 I was horrified something like this would happen during Trump's presidency. The irony. To put it in simple terms, none of us was giving this much thought to a mere possibility of a nuclear war, and now there is this probability even if statistically tiny. You know that some people are already looking at freaking fallout maps? This is awesome credibility here
Anonymous
Anonymous
Anonymous
03/07/2022 18:03
Subject: Re:US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:IMO we need elder statesmen to be involved in some type of diplomatic resolution (and maybe they are, behind the scenes) Obama, Clinton, Bush, even Jimmy Carter. We need seasoned experienced leaders to get involved and behind this.
You are joking.
The same "seasoned experienced leaders" who have got us where we are?
I agree this administration has failed in its efforts. And, it makes me angry.
They didn't enact sanctions soon enough.
They didn't send lethal arms to Ukraine for their defense soon enough, even though they had weeks if not months to do this.
They are still buying oil from Russia.
These are the same people who planned the withdrawal from Afghanistan, so I was not optimistic.
But, most of the people you listed are not any more capable of dealing with Russia. Remember Hillary's "reset" with Russia? Remember what happened to Crimea under Obama?
And, Jimmy Carter? Probably the worst in terms of decision making when it comes to foreign policy?
No thanks.
Most of the things you suggest would have rapidly and needlessly escalated the situation. Also would have made it impossible for US to rally support from around the world and would have antagonized China.
We can't keep overstretching ourselves in conflicts around the world. The painful reality is that our leadership has to make very tough choices. I think Biden and team have handled this very well thus far.
BS. The situation escalated on Putin's timeline because we didn't act.
You are believing the narrative this administration is spinning because they have been utter failures.
The US was warning the world that Putin was going to invade, and no one believed them. Plenty of people on this site didn't believe it. How much could the US have done at that point?
Once Putin made the decision to invade, there was nothing the US could have done. Sending in troops to Ukraine would have led to Russians shooting at US soldiers, and vice versa. Does anyone really want the countries that hold the world’s two largest nuclear arsenals shooting at each other?
Honestly, we should have been more aggressive with Putin after he annexed Crimea. The US and European response to that was weak and sent the message to Putin that he could escalate and the response would not be anything he couldn’t handle.
By doing what? Specifically?
And how do you suppose Trump repeating Russian propaganda and the GOP falling in line may have negatively impacted things over the past 4 years?
I never said Trump didn’t negatively impact things, but if you’ve been following Russia since 2014, you can see that the cycle of Putin becoming more aggressive globally really started with the Crimea annexation and the lackluster Western response.
Specifically, we should have placed US/NATO forces on high alert and placed US aircraft carriers in the Bosporus strait. European leaders should have called Putin and told him that if he does not withdraw all Russian presence from Crimea (outside of Black Sea fleet access, which we could negotiate), we will not remove the carriers. Blocking him into the Black Sea would have been disastrous for him and I believe there’s a chance he would have backed down at that point.
Republicans would not support any democrat president. You reap what you sow.
Like I noted.
You can live life under fantasy and conjecture but it’s not healthy so seek help.
But what we DO KNOW and can PROVE:
Under Trump:
Heavy sanctions on Russia
No Wars
Russia didn’t invade Ukraine
Under Biden
Lifted sanctions
Zelensky and others tried to encourage Biden to our sanctions back on, Biden refused
Russia invaded Ukraine
Under Obama:
Russia annexes Crimea
Weak response led by US hurts Russia a little but not enough
Russia continues to be belligerent
Those are facts we can actually see.
Under trump
- trump meets with Putin by himself who knows what deal was struck.
- Trump tries to breakup nato
- trump tries to stop all weapon deals with Ukraine
- trump threatens Ukraine
- Putin places bounties on US military personnel
- Russians attack use forces in Syria
- Russian systematically attack US elections
- Russians lunch hacking attacks against US.
- all conservatives organizations(NRA, etc) are under Russia influence
- republicans storm the Capitol with Russian support
- all republicans/conservatives fall inline with trump’s Putin love.
Under Democrat President
- republicans/conservatives undermine any action against Russia
- republicans/conservatives blindly support Putin.
- republicans/conservatives work to destroy NATO
Once again conjecture with little or no facts.
Lien I said
Under Trump:
No war
No invasion
Economic prosperity despite the lefts attempts to undermine all of it
Under Biden:
High gas prices
Empty shelves
Skyrocketing inflation
War
Chaos
Listed sanctions despite resistance from Zelensky and others who said it was a bad idea
Imports more Russian oil
Those are visible and tangible facts.
They are also outcomes from previous administrations. Nothing happens in a vacuum. Changes in policy on a national or global scale are hardly ever immediate. Its built upon what has previously happened.
With that comment, I think it appropriate to take a trip down memory lane.
With your comment and incorrect memory lane, it is important to correct you.
They laughed at him for being boastful and stupid.
“Even more world leaders appeared to join in mocking Trump last year during his speech at the United Nations. Trump made one of his characteristically hyperbolic claims about his achievements as president — “In less than two years, my administration has accomplished more than almost any administration in the history of our country” — and drew audible laughter.”
It's amazing how correct Trump has proven to have been........
It is amazing how deluded and fact resistant Putin’s Poodle’s true believers are.
PP wanted to withdraw the US from NATO, pushed to have Russia admitted to G7 even after they invaded Georgia and Crimea, lied that he won the 2020 election, which he lost by 7 million votes even before people knew the extent of insurrectionist treason that he was willing to orchestrate from the shadows by misleading his MAGA true believers to carry out an attempted coup after he lost the election. They came very close to overthrowing elected government and killing elected officials, including his loyal VP.
Oh you mean he was right that he could shoot someone in down town NYC in broad day light and get away with it. I’ll concede that for Teflon Don.
Anonymous
03/07/2022 17:28
Subject: Re:US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:IMO we need elder statesmen to be involved in some type of diplomatic resolution (and maybe they are, behind the scenes) Obama, Clinton, Bush, even Jimmy Carter. We need seasoned experienced leaders to get involved and behind this.
You are joking.
The same "seasoned experienced leaders" who have got us where we are?
I agree this administration has failed in its efforts. And, it makes me angry.
They didn't enact sanctions soon enough.
They didn't send lethal arms to Ukraine for their defense soon enough, even though they had weeks if not months to do this.
They are still buying oil from Russia.
These are the same people who planned the withdrawal from Afghanistan, so I was not optimistic.
But, most of the people you listed are not any more capable of dealing with Russia. Remember Hillary's "reset" with Russia? Remember what happened to Crimea under Obama?
And, Jimmy Carter? Probably the worst in terms of decision making when it comes to foreign policy?
No thanks.
Most of the things you suggest would have rapidly and needlessly escalated the situation. Also would have made it impossible for US to rally support from around the world and would have antagonized China.
We can't keep overstretching ourselves in conflicts around the world. The painful reality is that our leadership has to make very tough choices. I think Biden and team have handled this very well thus far.
BS. The situation escalated on Putin's timeline because we didn't act.
You are believing the narrative this administration is spinning because they have been utter failures.
The US was warning the world that Putin was going to invade, and no one believed them. Plenty of people on this site didn't believe it. How much could the US have done at that point?
Once Putin made the decision to invade, there was nothing the US could have done. Sending in troops to Ukraine would have led to Russians shooting at US soldiers, and vice versa. Does anyone really want the countries that hold the world’s two largest nuclear arsenals shooting at each other?
Honestly, we should have been more aggressive with Putin after he annexed Crimea. The US and European response to that was weak and sent the message to Putin that he could escalate and the response would not be anything he couldn’t handle.
By doing what? Specifically?
And how do you suppose Trump repeating Russian propaganda and the GOP falling in line may have negatively impacted things over the past 4 years?
I never said Trump didn’t negatively impact things, but if you’ve been following Russia since 2014, you can see that the cycle of Putin becoming more aggressive globally really started with the Crimea annexation and the lackluster Western response.
Specifically, we should have placed US/NATO forces on high alert and placed US aircraft carriers in the Bosporus strait. European leaders should have called Putin and told him that if he does not withdraw all Russian presence from Crimea (outside of Black Sea fleet access, which we could negotiate), we will not remove the carriers. Blocking him into the Black Sea would have been disastrous for him and I believe there’s a chance he would have backed down at that point.
Republicans would not support any democrat president. You reap what you sow.
Like I noted.
You can live life under fantasy and conjecture but it’s not healthy so seek help.
But what we DO KNOW and can PROVE:
Under Trump:
Heavy sanctions on Russia
No Wars
Russia didn’t invade Ukraine
Under Biden
Lifted sanctions
Zelensky and others tried to encourage Biden to our sanctions back on, Biden refused
Russia invaded Ukraine
Under Obama:
Russia annexes Crimea
Weak response led by US hurts Russia a little but not enough
Russia continues to be belligerent
Those are facts we can actually see.
Under trump
- trump meets with Putin by himself who knows what deal was struck.
- Trump tries to breakup nato
- trump tries to stop all weapon deals with Ukraine
- trump threatens Ukraine
- Putin places bounties on US military personnel
- Russians attack use forces in Syria
- Russian systematically attack US elections
- Russians lunch hacking attacks against US.
- all conservatives organizations(NRA, etc) are under Russia influence
- republicans storm the Capitol with Russian support
- all republicans/conservatives fall inline with trump’s Putin love.
Under Democrat President
- republicans/conservatives undermine any action against Russia
- republicans/conservatives blindly support Putin.
- republicans/conservatives work to destroy NATO
Once again conjecture with little or no facts.
Lien I said
Under Trump:
No war
No invasion
Economic prosperity despite the lefts attempts to undermine all of it
Under Biden:
High gas prices
Empty shelves
Skyrocketing inflation
War
Chaos
Listed sanctions despite resistance from Zelensky and others who said it was a bad idea
Imports more Russian oil
Those are visible and tangible facts.
They are also outcomes from previous administrations. Nothing happens in a vacuum. Changes in policy on a national or global scale are hardly ever immediate. Its built upon what has previously happened.
With that comment, I think it appropriate to take a trip down memory lane.
With your comment and incorrect memory lane, it is important to correct you.
They laughed at him for being boastful and stupid.
“Even more world leaders appeared to join in mocking Trump last year during his speech at the United Nations. Trump made one of his characteristically hyperbolic claims about his achievements as president — “In less than two years, my administration has accomplished more than almost any administration in the history of our country” — and drew audible laughter.”
It's amazing how correct Trump has proven to have been........
Anonymous
03/07/2022 16:08
Subject: Re:US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:IMO we need elder statesmen to be involved in some type of diplomatic resolution (and maybe they are, behind the scenes) Obama, Clinton, Bush, even Jimmy Carter. We need seasoned experienced leaders to get involved and behind this.
You are joking.
The same "seasoned experienced leaders" who have got us where we are?
I agree this administration has failed in its efforts. And, it makes me angry.
They didn't enact sanctions soon enough.
They didn't send lethal arms to Ukraine for their defense soon enough, even though they had weeks if not months to do this.
They are still buying oil from Russia.
These are the same people who planned the withdrawal from Afghanistan, so I was not optimistic.
But, most of the people you listed are not any more capable of dealing with Russia. Remember Hillary's "reset" with Russia? Remember what happened to Crimea under Obama?
And, Jimmy Carter? Probably the worst in terms of decision making when it comes to foreign policy?
No thanks.
Most of the things you suggest would have rapidly and needlessly escalated the situation. Also would have made it impossible for US to rally support from around the world and would have antagonized China.
We can't keep overstretching ourselves in conflicts around the world. The painful reality is that our leadership has to make very tough choices. I think Biden and team have handled this very well thus far.
BS. The situation escalated on Putin's timeline because we didn't act.
You are believing the narrative this administration is spinning because they have been utter failures.
The US was warning the world that Putin was going to invade, and no one believed them. Plenty of people on this site didn't believe it. How much could the US have done at that point?
Once Putin made the decision to invade, there was nothing the US could have done. Sending in troops to Ukraine would have led to Russians shooting at US soldiers, and vice versa. Does anyone really want the countries that hold the world’s two largest nuclear arsenals shooting at each other?
Honestly, we should have been more aggressive with Putin after he annexed Crimea. The US and European response to that was weak and sent the message to Putin that he could escalate and the response would not be anything he couldn’t handle.
By doing what? Specifically?
And how do you suppose Trump repeating Russian propaganda and the GOP falling in line may have negatively impacted things over the past 4 years?
I never said Trump didn’t negatively impact things, but if you’ve been following Russia since 2014, you can see that the cycle of Putin becoming more aggressive globally really started with the Crimea annexation and the lackluster Western response.
Specifically, we should have placed US/NATO forces on high alert and placed US aircraft carriers in the Bosporus strait. European leaders should have called Putin and told him that if he does not withdraw all Russian presence from Crimea (outside of Black Sea fleet access, which we could negotiate), we will not remove the carriers. Blocking him into the Black Sea would have been disastrous for him and I believe there’s a chance he would have backed down at that point.
Republicans would not support any democrat president. You reap what you sow.
Like I noted.
You can live life under fantasy and conjecture but it’s not healthy so seek help.
But what we DO KNOW and can PROVE:
Under Trump:
Heavy sanctions on Russia
No Wars
Russia didn’t invade Ukraine
Under Biden
Lifted sanctions
Zelensky and others tried to encourage Biden to our sanctions back on, Biden refused
Russia invaded Ukraine
Under Obama:
Russia annexes Crimea
Weak response led by US hurts Russia a little but not enough
Russia continues to be belligerent
Those are facts we can actually see.
Under trump
- trump meets with Putin by himself who knows what deal was struck.
- Trump tries to breakup nato
- trump tries to stop all weapon deals with Ukraine
- trump threatens Ukraine
- Putin places bounties on US military personnel
- Russians attack use forces in Syria
- Russian systematically attack US elections
- Russians lunch hacking attacks against US.
- all conservatives organizations(NRA, etc) are under Russia influence
- republicans storm the Capitol with Russian support
- all republicans/conservatives fall inline with trump’s Putin love.
Under Democrat President
- republicans/conservatives undermine any action against Russia
- republicans/conservatives blindly support Putin.
- republicans/conservatives work to destroy NATO
Once again conjecture with little or no facts.
Lien I said
Under Trump:
No war
No invasion
Economic prosperity despite the lefts attempts to undermine all of it
Under Biden:
High gas prices
Empty shelves
Skyrocketing inflation
War
Chaos
Listed sanctions despite resistance from Zelensky and others who said it was a bad idea
Imports more Russian oil
Those are visible and tangible facts.
They are also outcomes from previous administrations. Nothing happens in a vacuum. Changes in policy on a national or global scale are hardly ever immediate. Its built upon what has previously happened.
With that comment, I think it appropriate to take a trip down memory lane.
With your comment and incorrect memory lane, it is important to correct you.
They laughed at him for being boastful and stupid.
“Even more world leaders appeared to join in mocking Trump last year during his speech at the United Nations. Trump made one of his characteristically hyperbolic claims about his achievements as president — “In less than two years, my administration has accomplished more than almost any administration in the history of our country” — and drew audible laughter.”
Anonymous
03/07/2022 16:03
Subject: US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:There's no end in sight.
Even if Russia agrees to a ceasefire or even to leave altogether (they won't), there's no reason to trust them.
Even if Putin is taken out or overthrown, there are still some like him who will try to fill that slot.
I'm very worried that Putin isn't the weak/foolish person who bit off more than he could chew per the current media spin. I wonder if he's so calculating that he is letting his B team take the hit so the rest of the world thinks he can and must be taken out by putting boots on the ground or getting more intimately involved. Then he will send his A Team to take out the opposition once they've gotten cocky and let their guard down. This is a guy who patiently concocts plots to kill his competition or detractors...using brutal methods, on his terms.
Lol no. This is the Russia A team. Stop thinking Putin is playing chess. He plays ticTacToe. There is no subtlety with Russians.
You're truly clueless.
Ask military experts
Russia is looking like a paper tiger. Outdated manpads are significantly downgrading their stock of supposedly state of the art aircraft, their instance of keeping to an armor heavy doctrine is looking like a mistake, and their logistics are a joke.
After seeing hundreds of photos of their failed equipment, I have a new respect for logistics…and tires. You can’t do much for long without good tires and food.
They do not appear anywhere near surrounding Kyiv, and I hope it stays that way.