Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hell yeh, your popping in on the video chats probably helped. And letting him know that you monitor messages, that also helped. Without being confrontational you sent a clear signal that you were watching. He had other girls to pursue who didn’t have parents watching as closely.

Yeah it just makes me so sad. I'm not trying to be a smug parent, or blame any of the victims, but I'm sure it helped that I inserted myself in their conversations. Honestly, at the end of the day, it would have been my kid (not me) who would have encountered any inappropriate behavior and had to shut it down. So I guess my message to you all is: Talk to your girls (and boys), and let them know very clearly what is inappropriate teacher behavior. This includes:
- One on one texting
- Email to/from personal account
- Rides in car
- Physical contact
- Going out (anywhere) alone
- Visit to their home

I'm sure all of these violate MCPS policy already, and it seems highly unlikely that the school district would even be aware if they occur.

[My kid has played sports for 10+ years and the occasional text to a coach is normal, but only for things like "which field are you on?" or "I'm running late to the game". Otherwise, it's group texts all the way, or comms through the team captains.]

We have a coach/teacher do all of the above except for physical contact. He also gave my child gifts. There was no evidence of sexual abuse but MCPS investigated before the police. Since there was no crime, MCPS kept the coach/teacher on staff.

Parents, check your child’s phones. Be suspicious of anyone on staff doing these things. Report to the police first. Be prepared to pull your child from the team if MCPS isn’t going to enforce the Code of Conduct. MCPS turns a blind eye to truly questionable behavior so that’s why there are so many cases of sexual abuse of children by staff members.

MCPS investigated before the police

There's your crime. That's illegal. The police and CPS get called first, not last. That's the law. A MCPS "investigation" gives everyone a chance to cover up any evidence.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hell yeh, your popping in on the video chats probably helped. And letting him know that you monitor messages, that also helped. Without being confrontational you sent a clear signal that you were watching. He had other girls to pursue who didn’t have parents watching as closely.

Yeah it just makes me so sad. I'm not trying to be a smug parent, or blame any of the victims, but I'm sure it helped that I inserted myself in their conversations. Honestly, at the end of the day, it would have been my kid (not me) who would have encountered any inappropriate behavior and had to shut it down. So I guess my message to you all is: Talk to your girls (and boys), and let them know very clearly what is inappropriate teacher behavior. This includes:
- One on one texting
- Email to/from personal account
- Rides in car
- Physical contact
- Going out (anywhere) alone
- Visit to their home

I'm sure all of these violate MCPS policy already, and it seems highly unlikely that the school district would even be aware if they occur.

[My kid has played sports for 10+ years and the occasional text to a coach is normal, but only for things like "which field are you on?" or "I'm running late to the game". Otherwise, it's group texts all the way, or comms through the team captains.]

We have a coach/teacher do all of the above except for physical contact. He also gave my child gifts. There was no evidence of sexual abuse but MCPS investigated before the police. Since there was no crime, MCPS kept the coach/teacher on staff.

Parents, check your child’s phones. Be suspicious of anyone on staff doing these things. Report to the police first. Be prepared to pull your child from the team if MCPS isn’t going to enforce the Code of Conduct. MCPS turns a blind eye to truly questionable behavior so that’s why there are so many cases of sexual abuse of children by staff members.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hell yeh, your popping in on the video chats probably helped. And letting him know that you monitor messages, that also helped. Without being confrontational you sent a clear signal that you were watching. He had other girls to pursue who didn’t have parents watching as closely.

Yeah it just makes me so sad. I'm not trying to be a smug parent, or blame any of the victims, but I'm sure it helped that I inserted myself in their conversations. Honestly, at the end of the day, it would have been my kid (not me) who would have encountered any inappropriate behavior and had to shut it down. So I guess my message to you all is: Talk to your girls (and boys), and let them know very clearly what is inappropriate teacher behavior. This includes:
- One on one texting
- Email to/from personal account
- Rides in car
- Physical contact
- Going out (anywhere) alone
- Visit to their home

I'm sure all of these violate MCPS policy already, and it seems highly unlikely that the school district would even be aware if they occur.

[My kid has played sports for 10+ years and the occasional text to a coach is normal, but only for things like "which field are you on?" or "I'm running late to the game". Otherwise, it's group texts all the way, or comms through the team captains.]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The other possibility of course, is that this guy while 100% a creep and a predator, was also a great teacher. It is possible.

Wha? "The other possibility" to explain what, exactly? To explain...why students enjoyed spending time with him outside the classroom? Why students sought him out?

Keep in mind that some parents here have reported that he's widely known to have "favored female students." If a teacher was so great in general as a teacher, the male students would have sought his company, as a role model of sorts.

Or are you saying that he had amazing pedagogical talents, even if he were a predator? That's neither here nor there. Plus, I highly doubt he was an exceptionally gifted teacher in terms of a teaching skill set. My kids have had great teachers over the years and they didn't make them 'stand apart' among all other teachers.

Not to "explain" anything, no. It is simply an observation that it IS possible to be more than one thing at the same time. No person is 100% evil, no other person is 100% good. The world is full of hugely talented people on a genius level who make very poor choices when it comes to how they live their lives or treat others.

But I'm interested to hear from the ex students on this board who said he was terrible. It sounds like his "greatness" was all constructed BS and part of the ruse. It amazes me he got away with all of that for 20 years.

Sexual predators are often TEACHER OF THE YEAR award winners. Look at John Vigna at Cloverly Elementary. He has a huge fan club of MCPS staff and parents who all showed up at his trial in matching tee shirts and wrist bands. The Board of Education didn't even fire him. They LOVED him! Joshua Starr kept him in the classroom.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/he-was-warned-about-getting-too-close-to-students-but-this-maryland-teacher-was-allowed-to-stay-in-the-classroom/2017/08/25/5ac2ad76-7bbe-11e7-a669-b400c5c7e1cc_story.html

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The other possibility of course, is that this guy while 100% a creep and a predator, was also a great teacher. It is possible.

Wha? "The other possibility" to explain what, exactly? To explain...why students enjoyed spending time with him outside the classroom? Why students sought him out?

Keep in mind that some parents here have reported that he's widely known to have "favored female students." If a teacher was so great in general as a teacher, the male students would have sought his company, as a role model of sorts.

Or are you saying that he had amazing pedagogical talents, even if he were a predator? That's neither here nor there. Plus, I highly doubt he was an exceptionally gifted teacher in terms of a teaching skill set. My kids have had great teachers over the years and they didn't make them 'stand apart' among all other teachers.

Not to "explain" anything, no. It is simply an observation that it IS possible to be more than one thing at the same time. No person is 100% evil, no other person is 100% good. The world is full of hugely talented people on a genius level who make very poor choices when it comes to how they live their lives or treat others.

But I'm interested to hear from the ex students on this board who said he was terrible. It sounds like his "greatness" was all constructed BS and part of the ruse. It amazes me he got away with all of that for 20 years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The other possibility of course, is that this guy while 100% a creep and a predator, was also a great teacher. It is possible.

Wha? "The other possibility" to explain what, exactly? To explain...why students enjoyed spending time with him outside the classroom? Why students sought him out?

Keep in mind that some parents here have reported that he's widely known to have "favored female students." If a teacher was so great in general as a teacher, the male students would have sought his company, as a role model of sorts.

Or are you saying that he had amazing pedagogical talents, even if he were a predator? That's neither here nor there. Plus, I highly doubt he was an exceptionally gifted teacher in terms of a teaching skill set. My kids have had great teachers over the years and they didn't make them 'stand apart' among all other teachers.

Anonymous wrote:[
One burning question: when you asked other friends about it early, what did they say? To what degree did they have knowledge of the things that would have caused your red flags to go up, and did they have the same concerns as well? I am wondering how much parents do help, or COULD help, other parents to sense a predator; clearly Shipley was able to persist even if at least one parent was asking around. I'm not sure how to articulate myself clearly on this, but it's making me think about what my role might be as a parent if I got wind of something indirectly, say.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The other possibility of course, is that this guy while 100% a creep and a predator, was also a great teacher. It is possible.

Eh, sadly, no. I had this guy as a teacher and he was pretty subpar compared with the others I had for history, let alone any other subject. I distinctly remember one day where he either left the room or sat at his desk doing paperwork while we were all assigned packets to work on or some other BS work, when I actually wanted a lecture and discussion like the rest of my classes at WW. He hardly did any teaching and let the texts/media speak for themselves. In essence, I felt abandoned as a student to learn the material myself.

I'm pp who responded just after you--I must have been writing at the same time. Thank you for sharing your actual experiences. So, he probably tried to use his social charm to cover/compensate for his teaching inadequacies. To be known to be well-liked by students, but not because he was actually good at his teaching job.

Anonymous wrote:

1) The Whitman teacher ( Kirkland) showed a pattern over at least 8 years of inviting/ allowing female students who were in his Junior Year History class to hang out in his classroom during Free Periods. HELLO MCPS Principals and Superintendant NOT enforcing basic protocols to prevent sexual abuse. The red flag is why is this 39 year old male teacher giving up his break time ( Free period) to socialize with 16, 17, 18 year old girls ? What's he getting out of that ? Is he tutoring ? Do the parents know? Is anyone clocking the time in/out ? NOPE Shouldn't a NORMAL adult prefer the company of his ADULT colleagues in the Staff lounge ?? How could a school principal miss this one ?

Obviously this predator was abusing his position, but I'd like to unpack the above a little bit more. How was he only inviting female students?

I'm coming to this as an adult whose life and mental health were absolutely saved by kind teachers who let me hang out in their classrooms before school, and sometimes during lunches. As a queer weirdo in a rural nightmare of a town, I didn't have a lot of friends my own age and was subjected to vicious bullying in the halls, at free periods, etc. Just having a teacher open up a classroom to me where I could do my work, and maybe chat a little if they weren't busy, was life-changing.

Have we lost the ability to extend that to kids, under the circumstances?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a little uncomfortable with the suggestion that the victims' parents weren't sufficiently on the case. Obviously, the Whitman parent who showed up in the zoom and made clear she monitored the communications deterred Shipley from pursuing her daughter as a victim. But I had three athletes go through Whitman, and I think each of them would have been uncomfortable with me getting between them and their coaches in this way. WW Football made it clear--we don't want to hear from parents if your kid isn't getting the look or the playtime. The relationship has to be between player and coach, etc. That instilled in me early on a hands-off approach. To be clear, we absolutely need to change the system and heighten awareness of these terrible grooming situations. But without having heightened that awareness, and while we're still learning, I don't think it's okay to smugly blame the parents of these girls or to suggest they weren't sufficiently on the case.

This is made clear to our non-Whitman crew team as well - parents are not welcome to contact coaches under any circumstances. This has left girls on our team dealing on their own with issues of abuse vis-a-vis their coaches -- which puts them in a disempowered position. But, there is a difference between an adult going to the coach because they don't think their kid is getting playing time and that coach having a right to have coach/student only communication. IMO, it is possible to communicate with the team in a way that parents can "look on", excluding parents and labeling them as the problem is part of creating an atmosphere that enables abuse. As we saw in #metoo, the environment is abusive in ways that go beyond sexual abuse -- yelling, harassment, non-sexual touching, demanding that girls give up other activities, demands about maintaining low weight or criticism of body weight (from male coaches and male peers), and putting training opportunities for women behind those offered to men (boys get the best boats, better coaches, better coaching times, more race opportunities, more mention in the press, more praise for winning, etc. - and don't think the girls don't notice this!)

The problem is that a non-transparent coaching relationship where coaches are free to dole out positions on a non-merit basis is PART OF the grooming process. These girls depend on the favor of their coach to get positions on the team that will help them in life, college, etc. -- being on first boat, getting extra practice help or instruction, getting encouragement, etc.

Parents are locked out of information about how the team is operating, and physically discouraged from being around the boats/team. How would they get such a good picture of what's going on that they could stop it?

I resent blaming the parents. The coach did this activity and the team management created rules that facilitated it, and when girls come to team management complaining about abuse, unfairness or grooming, their concerns are often dismissed or diminished.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a little uncomfortable with the suggestion that the victims' parents weren't sufficiently on the case. Obviously, the Whitman parent who showed up in the zoom and made clear she monitored the communications deterred Shipley from pursuing her daughter as a victim. But I had three athletes go through Whitman, and I think each of them would have been uncomfortable with me getting between them and their coaches in this way. WW Football made it clear--we don't want to hear from parents if your kid isn't getting the look or the playtime. The relationship has to be between player and coach, etc. That instilled in me early on a hands-off approach. To be clear, we absolutely need to change the system and heighten awareness of these terrible grooming situations. But without having heightened that awareness, and while we're still learning, I don't think it's okay to smugly blame the parents of these girls or to suggest they weren't sufficiently on the case.

This is made clear to our non-Whitman crew team as well - parents are not welcome to contact coaches under any circumstances. This has left girls on our team dealing on their own with issues of abuse vis-a-vis their coaches -- which puts them in a disempowered position. But, there is a difference between an adult going to the coach because they don't think their kid is getting playing time and that coach having a right to have coach/student only communication. IMO, it is possible to communicate with the team in a way that parents can "look on", excluding parents and labeling them as the problem is part of creating an atmosphere that enables abuse. As we saw in #metoo, the environment is abusive in ways that go beyond sexual abuse -- yelling, harassment, non-sexual touching, demanding that girls give up other activities, demands about maintaining low weight or criticism of body weight (from male coaches and male peers), and putting training opportunities for women behind those offered to men (boys get the best boats, better coaches, better coaching times, more race opportunities, more mention in the press, more praise for winning, etc. - and don't think the girls don't notice this!)

The problem is that a non-transparent coaching relationship where coaches are free to dole out positions on a non-merit basis is PART OF the grooming process. These girls depend on the favor of their coach to get positions on the team that will help them in life, college, etc. -- being on first boat, getting extra practice help or instruction, getting encouragement, etc.

Parents are locked out of information about how the team is operating, and physically discouraged from being around the boats/team. How would they get such a good picture of what's going on that they could stop it?

I resent blaming the parents. The coach did this activity and the team management created rules that facilitated it, and when girls come to team management complaining about abuse, unfairness or grooming, their concerns are often dismissed or diminished.

Anonymous wrote:I'm a little uncomfortable with the suggestion that the victims' parents weren't sufficiently on the case. Obviously, the Whitman parent who showed up in the zoom and made clear she monitored the communications deterred Shipley from pursuing her daughter as a victim. But I had three athletes go through Whitman, and I think each of them would have been uncomfortable with me getting between them and their coaches in this way. WW Football made it clear--we don't want to hear from parents if your kid isn't getting the look or the playtime. The relationship has to be between player and coach, etc. That instilled in me early on a hands-off approach. To be clear, we absolutely need to change the system and heighten awareness of these terrible grooming situations. But without having heightened that awareness, and while we're still learning, I don't think it's okay to smugly blame the parents of these girls or to suggest they weren't sufficiently on the case.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The other possibility of course, is that this guy while 100% a creep and a predator, was also a great teacher. It is possible.

Eh, sadly, no. I had this guy as a teacher and he was pretty subpar compared with the others I had for history, let alone any other subject. I distinctly remember one day where he either left the room or sat at his desk doing paperwork while we were all assigned packets to work on or some other BS work, when I actually wanted a lecture and discussion like the rest of my classes at WW. He hardly did any teaching and let the texts/media speak for themselves. In essence, I felt abandoned as a student to learn the material myself.