Anonymous
Post 02/07/2013 12:34     Subject: Re:ludlow-taylor
My child has been both at LT and at another neighborhood school this year. We are PS3, so not a huge amount of experience, but one of this big things I felt right off the bat is this: At LT, you may end up with a nice teacher and a nice group of kids, which will overall give you a nice year. The following year(s) you may get lucky and have the same experience. But in no way are you going to get a nice overall school experience, where the Principal knows your child and the administration and PTA work together for improvements and for nice social events for kids and parents. That part is absolutely night and day and not much change can come from a handful of parents and zero staff trying to make the school feel like a community.
Anonymous
Post 02/07/2013 12:09     Subject: Re:ludlow-taylor
11:37 here -- I'm by no means accusing -everyone- of being racist.

I stand by my reporting: I've heard those sentiments expressed, both by current L-T parents and by Hill parents who aren't at L-T, not only in private conversations but also at the mic in public meetings.

I am happy to say I know other white parents (I'm white myself) who are just as disturbed as I am by some of the statements I described. Still, negative assumptions about black kids in schools are very deeply ingrained in many parents (not all of them white).

Regarding PTA tensions, I also think there's an unfortunate tendency among some (by no means all) gentrifiers to buy into the idea that their very presence constitutes an improvement and expect to be welcomed with open arms, as opposed to accepting that they are newbies and treading lightly.

But then, I am by nature a lurker who prefers to spend time sussing out the situation before I speak up, so I am probably not as sympathetic as I could be.



Anonymous
Post 02/07/2013 12:01     Subject: ludlow-taylor
If there was ever an argument that scores alone are never going to convince educated, engaged parents of the quality of a school, it's LT. I've lived IB for LT for a decade and have watched the endless stream of MD license plates at drop-off everyday for years. I see a principal who's uninterested in welcoming IB families, I see an insular clutch of OOB (or OOS -- out of state -- as they might better be described) families throwing elbows at anyone trying to horn in on "their school." Every IB family I've talked to assumes those 08-10 scores were the result of wide-scale cheating, that the principal who oversaw those tests is still there, the teachers who supervised the cheating are still there, and every future piece of data from that school is highly suspect until a new principal is in place. Look past the scores to see a school with incredibly poor leadership and little of interest to IB families.
Anonymous
Post 02/07/2013 11:49     Subject: ludlow-taylor
11:40 here (soon-to-be L-T parent) -- I've spoken with a few other families that will be sending their non-AA kids to L-T next year and I've never once heard anything like what 11:37 is describing -- not even close. What I have heard is people complain that L-T doesn't have a very good PTA that provides that school with all kinds of extra benefits like the Maury and the Brent PTAs do. But, as always, instead of really thinking about the issues, it's a lot easier to accuse everyone of being a racist.
Anonymous
Post 02/07/2013 11:44     Subject: Re:ludlow-taylor
Anonymous wrote:
You don't have white families avoiding black children. You have white families avoiding bad schools.


Of course! That explains why they love Maury (lower scores, more white kids) & don't like L-T (higher scores, more black kids).

In my experience, white ECE parents talk about "sticking together" so in six years the 5th-grade classrooms won't be "full of black kids." They speak as though it's an obvious fact that a classroom full of black kids is an inherently bad thing; educational quality doesn't enter the discussion. (On the contrary, it's the black parents -- some living in PG, quel horreur -- who talk about academics.)


WOW! I am pp and you might be right, then. Sorry to have judged. My experience is as a Brent parent and never, ever heard talk like this in 7 years there. I guess I shouldn't assume it is the same everywhere.
Anonymous
Post 02/07/2013 11:40     Subject: ludlow-taylor
Visit Maury and visit L-T and see what you think. L-T is a disaster. That said, I'll be sending my kid there next year because I really don't have another option.
Anonymous
Post 02/07/2013 11:37     Subject: Re:ludlow-taylor
You don't have white families avoiding black children. You have white families avoiding bad schools.


Of course! That explains why they love Maury (lower scores, more white kids) & don't like L-T (higher scores, more black kids).

In my experience, white ECE parents talk about "sticking together" so in six years the 5th-grade classrooms won't be "full of black kids." They speak as though it's an obvious fact that a classroom full of black kids is an inherently bad thing; educational quality doesn't enter the discussion. (On the contrary, it's the black parents -- some living in PG, quel horreur -- who talk about academics.)
Anonymous
Post 02/07/2013 11:24     Subject: Re:ludlow-taylor
Anonymous wrote:
Try this for answers: stand by the front door between 8:00 and 8:30 AM on any school day. Watch dozens of MD plate cars pull up to drop kids off. Watch little yellow school buses roll in, bringing scores of OOB special needs kids. Watch a couple dozen tiny little white kids trickle in, and a handful of older ones. No fighting, little disruptive behavior, standard DCPS curriculum (which is challenging for the great majority of kids in lower grades, and around half the high-SES kids in upper grades) yet LT is far from a high-SES friendly neighborhood school in a mostly high-SES neighborhood. It's a Ward 7, 8 and PG County school in the Stanton Park neighborhood.


I understand why "PG cheaters" are a drain on the school system as a whole, and in particular take spots at the PS-PK level away from legit DC residents.

What I don't understand is how PG County kids in the classroom affect the quality of a specific school. When I look at the kids and parents in my daughter's DCPS classroom, the PG kids are smart and well-behaved (they aren't all perfect little geniuses, but they don't stand out as challenging kids), and their parents participate in school events and are committed to their children's education.

So while I get the problem at the macro level, I just don't get how PG kids' presence can be something "wrong" with a school -- unless the issue is simply that they're black?

Similarly, it's one thing to look at a low-performing school and argue that a prevalence of low-SES families is a problem. (I believe every school ought to be able to educate every kid, but by definition high-SES families possess more resources to contribute to their child's school/education.)

It's another thing to acknowledge a school is doing just fine -- "No fighting, little disruptive behavior, standard DCPS curriculum," in your words -- but still argue that low SES or PG County kids are a problem. It's hard for me to see that as anything other than racism.

It bugs me that Maury is more highly regarded by Hill parents than Ludlow-Taylor. Ludlow-Taylor has stronger scores, by rights it should be the preferred school -- but it also has fewer white kids, which I guess is the rub.

"Not wanting to be an only" makes sense in theory, but in practice it seems more like "wanting to be the majority" -- the Hill schools that get talked up are the ones that are 40-60% white. (Ludlow is 10% white.)


Look, your rascist theories are bunk. DCPS is a terrible school system. Period. It is dysfunctional, unorganized, corrupt and for decades has failed to adequately educate the children of this city. Individual schools where involved, educated and financially stable ( able to contribute big bucks to the PTA and school budget ) families end up tend to do better on scores and other measures of school success. Those parents have and enforce higher expectations in the classrooms and for extra curricular activities. And therefore attract more families who have similar expectations and the school gets better despite the DCPS dysfunction. ON CAPITOL HILL those families tend to be white. Not all, but many. Add to that the fact that middle class, living in DC AA families are even more likely to shun a sub-standard DCPS. You don't have white families avoiding black children. You have white families avoiding bad schools. None of the above is fair or just. It sucks that children in largely poor schools get the worst that DCPS has to offer, because they lack the buffer of an active and engaged and financially and politically potent school community. It shouldn't be that way. But it isn't racism either. It is dysfunctional government and social forces that sadly in the end end up turning us all against one another.
Anonymous
Post 02/07/2013 11:21     Subject: Re:ludlow-taylor
Anonymous wrote:
It bugs me that Maury is more highly regarded by Hill parents than Ludlow-Taylor. Ludlow-Taylor has stronger scores, by rights it should be the preferred school -- but it also has fewer white kids, which I guess is the rub.

Maury's momentum as at the younger grades -- pre-testing. IB families start at PS3 and are staying into early ES. The opposite is happening at LT, where most IB jump ship.

LT's scores reflect 3-5. There is also a large special needs population, and the scoring is handled differently than it is for mainstream kids. Rumors of suspicious scores have never been substantiated, but there are doubters.
Anonymous
Post 02/07/2013 11:18     Subject: Re:ludlow-taylor
The Ludlow scores for 2008-2010 were the result of cheating. Measures were put in place to make it a lot harder to cheat (simple stuff like taping books closed), and the scores for 2011-2012 -- which are still good for Hill schools -- are noticeably lower than the 2008-10 scores, which makes me think they're accurate.
Anonymous
Post 02/07/2013 11:14     Subject: ludlow-taylor
Anonymous wrote:To 10:00, I understand what you're saying -- you live in the neighborhood and you want your school to reflect the neighborhood. You didn't move to Ward 8, so why should your school be a Ward 8 school. BUT, it seems to me that the only real way to address this is for all the IB families to actually send their kids to L-T. Am I missing something?


The crux of the problem is that the PG County parents aren't just OOB folk who drifted in, they're territorial about "their school," the one they attended as children. They're a political force controlling the PTA, making getrifiers unwelcome, and embracing the idiot principal. DCPS lets them A) stay, and B) block change neighborhood families dearly desire. With so many new charter options and both the Logan Montessori and SWS expanding, no chance that IB LT parents will send their kids en masse. Even die hard LT IB types worry about their kids bouncing between 2 or 3 elementary schools simply to reach the upper grades.

Anonymous
Post 02/07/2013 11:07     Subject: ludlow-taylor
Please don't forget that Ludlow came by those scores, in all probability, by cheating. That in itself makes me wary of the school.
Anonymous
Post 02/07/2013 11:06     Subject: ludlow-taylor
Well, Maury didn't cheat on the DC-CAS, for one...
Anonymous
Post 02/07/2013 10:59     Subject: Re:ludlow-taylor
Try this for answers: stand by the front door between 8:00 and 8:30 AM on any school day. Watch dozens of MD plate cars pull up to drop kids off. Watch little yellow school buses roll in, bringing scores of OOB special needs kids. Watch a couple dozen tiny little white kids trickle in, and a handful of older ones. No fighting, little disruptive behavior, standard DCPS curriculum (which is challenging for the great majority of kids in lower grades, and around half the high-SES kids in upper grades) yet LT is far from a high-SES friendly neighborhood school in a mostly high-SES neighborhood. It's a Ward 7, 8 and PG County school in the Stanton Park neighborhood.


I understand why "PG cheaters" are a drain on the school system as a whole, and in particular take spots at the PS-PK level away from legit DC residents.

What I don't understand is how PG County kids in the classroom affect the quality of a specific school. When I look at the kids and parents in my daughter's DCPS classroom, the PG kids are smart and well-behaved (they aren't all perfect little geniuses, but they don't stand out as challenging kids), and their parents participate in school events and are committed to their children's education.

So while I get the problem at the macro level, I just don't get how PG kids' presence can be something "wrong" with a school -- unless the issue is simply that they're black?

Similarly, it's one thing to look at a low-performing school and argue that a prevalence of low-SES families is a problem. (I believe every school ought to be able to educate every kid, but by definition high-SES families possess more resources to contribute to their child's school/education.)

It's another thing to acknowledge a school is doing just fine -- "No fighting, little disruptive behavior, standard DCPS curriculum," in your words -- but still argue that low SES or PG County kids are a problem. It's hard for me to see that as anything other than racism.

It bugs me that Maury is more highly regarded by Hill parents than Ludlow-Taylor. Ludlow-Taylor has stronger scores, by rights it should be the preferred school -- but it also has fewer white kids, which I guess is the rub.

"Not wanting to be an only" makes sense in theory, but in practice it seems more like "wanting to be the majority" -- the Hill schools that get talked up are the ones that are 40-60% white. (Ludlow is 10% white.)
Anonymous
Post 02/07/2013 10:16     Subject: ludlow-taylor
To 10:00, I understand what you're saying -- you live in the neighborhood and you want your school to reflect the neighborhood. You didn't move to Ward 8, so why should your school be a Ward 8 school. BUT, it seems to me that the only real way to address this is for all the IB families to actually send their kids to L-T. Am I missing something?