Anonymous
Post 08/25/2021 13:16     Subject: Cheating Scandal Triggering TJ Change
Anonymous wrote:


In as far as a race-blind admission can be which is to say it isn't because that's illegal. However, there are problems looking at the distribution of seats. One group is overrepresented while all others are underrepresented, but I agree this indicates that the process is flawed.


Your casual comment belies your perspective. In short, you believe that seats should be distributed according to race.


DP - there is a difference between "seats should be distributed according to race" and "barriers to certain communities should be removed".

YOUR comment belies YOUR perspective that certain races are inherently more deserving of seats than others.
Anonymous
Post 08/25/2021 12:57     Subject: Cheating Scandal Triggering TJ Change



In as far as a race-blind admission can be which is to say it isn't because that's illegal. However, there are problems looking at the distribution of seats. One group is overrepresented while all others are underrepresented, but I agree this indicates that the process is flawed.


Your casual comment belies your perspective. In short, you believe that seats should be distributed according to race.
Anonymous
Post 08/25/2021 04:46     Subject: Cheating Scandal Triggering TJ Change
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
race-blind admissions is a distraction. Seems like the real issue is purchasing admissions.


And the way to stop purchasing admissions is to implement a per school quota?


No, it's to remove the exam.

This means the per-school quota which was implemented had nothing to do with the alleged cheating on an entrance exam.
They had some other goal in mind.


Yes. It’s called making TJ more accessible for white families. White PTA moms that push their kids into AAP programs so they can brag, and now they want their kid attending TJ for the status symbol. The admissions changes had NOTHING to do with increase in URMs. It was only when the school was majority Asian and white kids could not compete head to head was drastic change called for.

Yet, I haven’t heard any complaints from Asians about white kids taking their spots. The have made a federal case out of the thought of Latino and Black kids taking spots they want though.


The federal case does not make that point. When they increase the incoming class size from 480-550, they could have met their diversity goals from the extra 70 seats. They decided not to. The only group that was negatively impacted was the 'Asian' demographic because there are ant-Asian bigots in FCPS who feel that they are 'over-represented,' a racist dogwhistle because there is no such as thing as over representation of excellence,


Can someone explain how 'Asian' becomes a race identification? The Indians and east Asians don't look like and have different cultures. They bring just as much diversity. North Indians are probably part whites at the DNA level. If we are following FCPS's racial agenda here -- the Indians should not be lumped into this manufactured 'Asian' race, and the FCPS's race 'problem' will be solved. If you look at the world as large, TJ's race and ethnicity roughly mirror the world's demographics. Indo-European is about half with east asian a quarter. Africans are less represented for sure, but that could be solved by using the extra 70 seats exclusively for URMs.

This entire 'reform' is racist as ****.


Indians are FAR more overrepresented at TJ than East Asians. FAR FAR FAR.



An earlier post cited it quite well. The new admission process is Racist As F_k!


In as far as a race-blind admission can be which is to say it isn't because that's illegal. However, there are problems looking at the distribution of seats. One group is overrepresented while all others are underrepresented, but I agree this indicates that the process is flawed.
Anonymous
Post 08/24/2021 17:13     Subject: Cheating Scandal Triggering TJ Change
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
race-blind admissions is a distraction. Seems like the real issue is purchasing admissions.


And the way to stop purchasing admissions is to implement a per school quota?


No, it's to remove the exam.

This means the per-school quota which was implemented had nothing to do with the alleged cheating on an entrance exam.
They had some other goal in mind.


Yes. It’s called making TJ more accessible for white families. White PTA moms that push their kids into AAP programs so they can brag, and now they want their kid attending TJ for the status symbol. The admissions changes had NOTHING to do with increase in URMs. It was only when the school was majority Asian and white kids could not compete head to head was drastic change called for.

Yet, I haven’t heard any complaints from Asians about white kids taking their spots. The have made a federal case out of the thought of Latino and Black kids taking spots they want though.


The federal case does not make that point. When they increase the incoming class size from 480-550, they could have met their diversity goals from the extra 70 seats. They decided not to. The only group that was negatively impacted was the 'Asian' demographic because there are ant-Asian bigots in FCPS who feel that they are 'over-represented,' a racist dogwhistle because there is no such as thing as over representation of excellence,


Can someone explain how 'Asian' becomes a race identification? The Indians and east Asians don't look like and have different cultures. They bring just as much diversity. North Indians are probably part whites at the DNA level. If we are following FCPS's racial agenda here -- the Indians should not be lumped into this manufactured 'Asian' race, and the FCPS's race 'problem' will be solved. If you look at the world as large, TJ's race and ethnicity roughly mirror the world's demographics. Indo-European is about half with east asian a quarter. Africans are less represented for sure, but that could be solved by using the extra 70 seats exclusively for URMs.

This entire 'reform' is racist as ****.


Indians are FAR more overrepresented at TJ than East Asians. FAR FAR FAR.



An earlier post cited it quite well. The new admission process is Racist As F_k!
Anonymous
Post 08/24/2021 15:17     Subject: Cheating Scandal Triggering TJ Change
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
race-blind admissions is a distraction. Seems like the real issue is purchasing admissions.


And the way to stop purchasing admissions is to implement a per school quota?


No, it's to remove the exam.

This means the per-school quota which was implemented had nothing to do with the alleged cheating on an entrance exam.
They had some other goal in mind.


Yes. It’s called making TJ more accessible for white families. White PTA moms that push their kids into AAP programs so they can brag, and now they want their kid attending TJ for the status symbol. The admissions changes had NOTHING to do with increase in URMs. It was only when the school was majority Asian and white kids could not compete head to head was drastic change called for.

Yet, I haven’t heard any complaints from Asians about white kids taking their spots. The have made a federal case out of the thought of Latino and Black kids taking spots they want though.


The federal case does not make that point. When they increase the incoming class size from 480-550, they could have met their diversity goals from the extra 70 seats. They decided not to. The only group that was negatively impacted was the 'Asian' demographic because there are ant-Asian bigots in FCPS who feel that they are 'over-represented,' a racist dogwhistle because there is no such as thing as over representation of excellence,


Can someone explain how 'Asian' becomes a race identification? The Indians and east Asians don't look like and have different cultures. They bring just as much diversity. North Indians are probably part whites at the DNA level. If we are following FCPS's racial agenda here -- the Indians should not be lumped into this manufactured 'Asian' race, and the FCPS's race 'problem' will be solved. If you look at the world as large, TJ's race and ethnicity roughly mirror the world's demographics. Indo-European is about half with east asian a quarter. Africans are less represented for sure, but that could be solved by using the extra 70 seats exclusively for URMs.

This entire 'reform' is racist as ****.


Racial quotas are illegal


That's why there are no quotas and admissions are race blind.
Anonymous
Post 08/24/2021 14:37     Subject: Cheating Scandal Triggering TJ Change
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
race-blind admissions is a distraction. Seems like the real issue is purchasing admissions.


And the way to stop purchasing admissions is to implement a per school quota?


No, it's to remove the exam.

This means the per-school quota which was implemented had nothing to do with the alleged cheating on an entrance exam.
They had some other goal in mind.


Yes. It’s called making TJ more accessible for white families. White PTA moms that push their kids into AAP programs so they can brag, and now they want their kid attending TJ for the status symbol. The admissions changes had NOTHING to do with increase in URMs. It was only when the school was majority Asian and white kids could not compete head to head was drastic change called for.

Yet, I haven’t heard any complaints from Asians about white kids taking their spots. The have made a federal case out of the thought of Latino and Black kids taking spots they want though.


The federal case does not make that point. When they increase the incoming class size from 480-550, they could have met their diversity goals from the extra 70 seats. They decided not to. The only group that was negatively impacted was the 'Asian' demographic because there are ant-Asian bigots in FCPS who feel that they are 'over-represented,' a racist dogwhistle because there is no such as thing as over representation of excellence,


Can someone explain how 'Asian' becomes a race identification? The Indians and east Asians don't look like and have different cultures. They bring just as much diversity. North Indians are probably part whites at the DNA level. If we are following FCPS's racial agenda here -- the Indians should not be lumped into this manufactured 'Asian' race, and the FCPS's race 'problem' will be solved. If you look at the world as large, TJ's race and ethnicity roughly mirror the world's demographics. Indo-European is about half with east asian a quarter. Africans are less represented for sure, but that could be solved by using the extra 70 seats exclusively for URMs.

This entire 'reform' is racist as ****.


Racial quotas are illegal
Anonymous
Post 08/24/2021 14:04     Subject: Cheating Scandal Triggering TJ Change
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
race-blind admissions is a distraction. Seems like the real issue is purchasing admissions.


And the way to stop purchasing admissions is to implement a per school quota?


No, it's to remove the exam.

This means the per-school quota which was implemented had nothing to do with the alleged cheating on an entrance exam.
They had some other goal in mind.


Yes. It’s called making TJ more accessible for white families. White PTA moms that push their kids into AAP programs so they can brag, and now they want their kid attending TJ for the status symbol. The admissions changes had NOTHING to do with increase in URMs. It was only when the school was majority Asian and white kids could not compete head to head was drastic change called for.

Yet, I haven’t heard any complaints from Asians about white kids taking their spots. The have made a federal case out of the thought of Latino and Black kids taking spots they want though.


The federal case does not make that point. When they increase the incoming class size from 480-550, they could have met their diversity goals from the extra 70 seats. They decided not to. The only group that was negatively impacted was the 'Asian' demographic because there are ant-Asian bigots in FCPS who feel that they are 'over-represented,' a racist dogwhistle because there is no such as thing as over representation of excellence,


Can someone explain how 'Asian' becomes a race identification? The Indians and east Asians don't look like and have different cultures. They bring just as much diversity. North Indians are probably part whites at the DNA level. If we are following FCPS's racial agenda here -- the Indians should not be lumped into this manufactured 'Asian' race, and the FCPS's race 'problem' will be solved. If you look at the world as large, TJ's race and ethnicity roughly mirror the world's demographics. Indo-European is about half with east asian a quarter. Africans are less represented for sure, but that could be solved by using the extra 70 seats exclusively for URMs.

This entire 'reform' is racist as ****.


Indians are FAR more overrepresented at TJ than East Asians. FAR FAR FAR.
Anonymous
Post 08/24/2021 12:45     Subject: Cheating Scandal Triggering TJ Change
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
race-blind admissions is a distraction. Seems like the real issue is purchasing admissions.


And the way to stop purchasing admissions is to implement a per school quota?


No, it's to remove the exam.

This means the per-school quota which was implemented had nothing to do with the alleged cheating on an entrance exam.
They had some other goal in mind.


Yes. It’s called making TJ more accessible for white families. White PTA moms that push their kids into AAP programs so they can brag, and now they want their kid attending TJ for the status symbol. The admissions changes had NOTHING to do with increase in URMs. It was only when the school was majority Asian and white kids could not compete head to head was drastic change called for.

Yet, I haven’t heard any complaints from Asians about white kids taking their spots. The have made a federal case out of the thought of Latino and Black kids taking spots they want though.


The federal case does not make that point. When they increase the incoming class size from 480-550, they could have met their diversity goals from the extra 70 seats. They decided not to. The only group that was negatively impacted was the 'Asian' demographic because there are ant-Asian bigots in FCPS who feel that they are 'over-represented,' a racist dogwhistle because there is no such as thing as over representation of excellence,


Can someone explain how 'Asian' becomes a race identification? The Indians and east Asians don't look like and have different cultures. They bring just as much diversity. North Indians are probably part whites at the DNA level. If we are following FCPS's racial agenda here -- the Indians should not be lumped into this manufactured 'Asian' race, and the FCPS's race 'problem' will be solved. If you look at the world as large, TJ's race and ethnicity roughly mirror the world's demographics. Indo-European is about half with east asian a quarter. Africans are less represented for sure, but that could be solved by using the extra 70 seats exclusively for URMs.

This entire 'reform' is racist as ****.
Anonymous
Post 08/24/2021 12:24     Subject: Cheating Scandal Triggering TJ Change
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:One of the top students in Fairfax is a white kid who will be applying in a few years. Removing all these criteria makes it possible this kid will be passed over for admissions in a few years, as this child will likely be in a top feeder school. How is this new admissions process going to separate among the many kids with high GPA?


He might not get into TJ. And another qualified kid will instead. They’ll both thrive in their public school, and the world will keep spinning.


This is a perfect example of how both sides on this will never see eye to eye. Assuming PP is referencing the Battlebots kid from Herndon, half of the people here seem to think "meh. NBD if the kid doesn't get into TJ. There are plenty of other qualified kids out there" and the other half thinks "OMG. This is exactly the type of kid TJ is made for, and it would be a travesty if he doesn't get in."


I think part of the issue is how merit is defined. One side believes that taking $15,000 in prep classes shows merit whereas the other thinks that's an unfair advantage.
Anonymous
Post 08/24/2021 12:22     Subject: Cheating Scandal Triggering TJ Change
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
race-blind admissions is a distraction. Seems like the real issue is purchasing admissions.


And the way to stop purchasing admissions is to implement a per school quota?


No, it's to remove the exam.

This means the per-school quota which was implemented had nothing to do with the alleged cheating on an entrance exam.
They had some other goal in mind.


Yes. It’s called making TJ more accessible for white families. White PTA moms that push their kids into AAP programs so they can brag, and now they want their kid attending TJ for the status symbol. The admissions changes had NOTHING to do with increase in URMs. It was only when the school was majority Asian and white kids could not compete head to head was drastic change called for.


Didn't the changes bring about nearly a 2X increase in URMs? Still has it been stated that was their goal? I thought it was just more fair to give all schools some representation not just the richest one's where prep is the most common.
Anonymous
Post 08/24/2021 11:44     Subject: Cheating Scandal Triggering TJ Change
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:One of the top students in Fairfax is a white kid who will be applying in a few years. Removing all these criteria makes it possible this kid will be passed over for admissions in a few years, as this child will likely be in a top feeder school. How is this new admissions process going to separate among the many kids with high GPA?


He might not get into TJ. And another qualified kid will instead. They’ll both thrive in their public school, and the world will keep spinning.


This is a perfect example of how both sides on this will never see eye to eye. Assuming PP is referencing the Battlebots kid from Herndon, half of the people here seem to think "meh. NBD if the kid doesn't get into TJ. There are plenty of other qualified kids out there" and the other half thinks "OMG. This is exactly the type of kid TJ is made for, and it would be a travesty if he doesn't get in."
Anonymous
Post 08/24/2021 09:51     Subject: Cheating Scandal Triggering TJ Change
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
race-blind admissions is a distraction. Seems like the real issue is purchasing admissions.


And the way to stop purchasing admissions is to implement a per school quota?


No, it's to remove the exam.

This means the per-school quota which was implemented had nothing to do with the alleged cheating on an entrance exam.
They had some other goal in mind.


Yes. It’s called making TJ more accessible for white families. White PTA moms that push their kids into AAP programs so they can brag, and now they want their kid attending TJ for the status symbol. The admissions changes had NOTHING to do with increase in URMs. It was only when the school was majority Asian and white kids could not compete head to head was drastic change called for.

Yet, I haven’t heard any complaints from Asians about white kids taking their spots. The have made a federal case out of the thought of Latino and Black kids taking spots they want though.


The federal case does not make that point. When they increase the incoming class size from 480-550, they could have met their diversity goals from the extra 70 seats. They decided not to. The only group that was negatively impacted was the 'Asian' demographic because there are ant-Asian bigots in FCPS who feel that they are 'over-represented,' a racist dogwhistle because there is no such as thing as over representation of excellence,


Given that cohort's outsized representation (under 20% of the county's pop having 70% of the TJ seats) that isn't much of a surprise.
Anonymous
Post 08/24/2021 09:49     Subject: Cheating Scandal Triggering TJ Change
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Stop distorting the numbers to try to make your point. A group that makes up 20% of the FCPS population has occupied 73% of the seats and now only has 54%. So, the overrepresentation is not as drastic as you're making it out to be, and the reduction in Asian enrollment is twice as large as you're claiming.

The overrepresentation of Asian students of course has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that Asian cultures greatly value education and hard work.


Yes, stop distorting the numbers! Fairfax county is 17% Asian according to the latest data. Asian students typically have been awarded 70% of the TJ admissions in recent years. It's gone down to 60%, but on the whole Asians are doing far better than anyone else with this metric so I think discrimination in race-blind admissions is a distraction. Seems like the real issue is purchasing admissions.


You first. Why are you using Fairfax county numbers rather than FCPS numbers for Asian enrollment? FCPS specifically states that it has 19.5% Asian enrollment in their school system, so that's the most reasonable number to use. The Washington Post specifically states that Asians have 54% of the seats for the class of 2025. https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/thomas-jefferson-high-diversity-admissions/2021/06/23/26bb7960-d44b-11eb-ae54-515e2f63d37d_story.html
Stop pulling numbers out of your a**.


So what you're saying is Asians have more seats than any group by a huge margin and yet it's not enough? You feel the system needs to be rigged to give them more?

That’s basically what is being said and they are appalled at the fact that a percentage of the spots they have lost are going to Blacks and Latinos.


It is actually quite the opposite. People were appalled by large percentage of spots going to Asians and decided to rig the process and change a race blind process by removing an admissions test to penalize Asians for success. If the issues was the test itself, it could easily have been changed to make it non-standardized but then that would not have worked for equity so the test was removed and the process rigged to make it subjective so that the right social engineering mix could be created and politicians could reward their constituents with spots at TJ.


The test was removed in part to get rid of the application fee. So, I suppose in a sense that has an impact on equity but the rest of your comment is pretty nonsensical.


Application fee could have been easily removed. Rest of my comm my describes a nonsensical situation but is very much true.


The exam was the costly part of the application. You couldn't remove the fee without removing the exam.


It's pretty clear they wanted to diminish the impact of prep by giving equally gifted but unprepped students at the less affluent schools a chance to shine.
Anonymous
Post 08/24/2021 09:36     Subject: Cheating Scandal Triggering TJ Change
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
race-blind admissions is a distraction. Seems like the real issue is purchasing admissions.


And the way to stop purchasing admissions is to implement a per school quota?


No, it's to remove the exam.

This means the per-school quota which was implemented had nothing to do with the alleged cheating on an entrance exam.
They had some other goal in mind.


Yes. It’s called making TJ more accessible for white families. White PTA moms that push their kids into AAP programs so they can brag, and now they want their kid attending TJ for the status symbol. The admissions changes had NOTHING to do with increase in URMs. It was only when the school was majority Asian and white kids could not compete head to head was drastic change called for.

Yet, I haven’t heard any complaints from Asians about white kids taking their spots. The have made a federal case out of the thought of Latino and Black kids taking spots they want though.


The federal case does not make that point. When they increase the incoming class size from 480-550, they could have met their diversity goals from the extra 70 seats. They decided not to. The only group that was negatively impacted was the 'Asian' demographic because there are ant-Asian bigots in FCPS who feel that they are 'over-represented,' a racist dogwhistle because there is no such as thing as over representation of excellence,
Anonymous
Post 08/24/2021 06:20     Subject: Cheating Scandal Triggering TJ Change
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
race-blind admissions is a distraction. Seems like the real issue is purchasing admissions.


And the way to stop purchasing admissions is to implement a per school quota?


No, it's to remove the exam.

This means the per-school quota which was implemented had nothing to do with the alleged cheating on an entrance exam.
They had some other goal in mind.


Yes. It’s called making TJ more accessible for white families. White PTA moms that push their kids into AAP programs so they can brag, and now they want their kid attending TJ for the status symbol. The admissions changes had NOTHING to do with increase in URMs. It was only when the school was majority Asian and white kids could not compete head to head was drastic change called for.

Yet, I haven’t heard any complaints from Asians about white kids taking their spots. The have made a federal case out of the thought of Latino and Black kids taking spots they want though.