Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

sorry - I guess it's just that you're scared of non-white people. my bad.

You're saying he should pretend his kids' schools are just fine to get street cred with you?

Basically, that's the argument. OP feels that we should send our kids to schools that are 50% ESOL and 50% FARMS in order to prove that we're not 'racist'. Any family that wants to avoid neighborhoods with illegal immigrants is a racist, plain and simple.

All the while, OP fights for open borders and more illegal immigration from her high horse in lily white Potomac neighborhood, as she campaigns for the latest Democratic candidate.

Dig, dig, dig that hole. You've thoroughly proven your motivation is animus against immigrants -- all you have to go on is that you don't like seeing brown people speaking foreign languages (legal or not) in your community. FWIW my kid goes to diverse school and I have always lived in diverse settings, so I have no fear. Your kids must be kind of dim if the presence of English Language Learners is such a huge issue.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

sorry - I guess it's just that you're scared of non-white people. my bad.

You're saying he should pretend his kids' schools are just fine to get street cred with you?

Basically, that's the argument. OP feels that we should send our kids to schools that are 50% ESOL and 50% FARMS in order to prove that we're not 'racist'. Any family that wants to avoid neighborhoods with illegal immigrants is a racist, plain and simple.

All the while, OP fights for open borders and more illegal immigration from her high horse in lily white Potomac neighborhood, as she campaigns for the latest Democratic candidate.

Dig, dig, dig that hole. You've thoroughly proven your motivation is animus against immigrants -- all you have to go on is that you don't like seeing brown people speaking foreign languages (legal or not) in your community. FWIW my kid goes to diverse school and I have always lived in diverse settings, so I have no fear. Your kids must be kind of dim if the presence of English Language Learners is such a huge issue.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

sorry - I guess it's just that you're scared of non-white people. my bad.

You're saying he should pretend his kids' schools are just fine to get street cred with you?

Basically, that's the argument. OP feels that we should send our kids to schools that are 50% ESOL and 50% FARMS in order to prove that we're not 'racist'. Any family that wants to avoid neighborhoods with illegal immigrants is a racist, plain and simple.

All the while, OP fights for open borders and more illegal immigration from her high horse in lily white Potomac neighborhood, as she campaigns for the latest Democratic candidate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is so sick- why do you conflate illegal and legal immigration. Please just stop.

Let me break it down for you, since you're cognitively impaired.

Just like Japan, the US native-born population is aging, and birth rates are slowing. Just like Japan, to support the economy, that means we need a certain rate of low-skilled immigration. Currently,d due to our lack of a rational immigration policy, those low-skilled workers are being supplied through illegal immigration. Therefore, to keep our economy growing, we need to create a route to more LEGAL immigration. But the illegal immigrants (and their US-born children) are what's keeping us from a Japan-style demographic collapse. So the conflation is that we need to transform illegal --> legal. What ideas do you have to do that?

Given that our economy needs and benefits from these low-skilled workers, but our legal system does not currently provide a route for them to work legally, it's really the legal system that should be blamed as "sick."

NP - well, aren’t you smug as can be, with all the answers.

If we are to be a country of laws and, more importantly, respect for those laws, we should not turn a blind eye to illegal immigration. And, yes, this may involve reforms to those laws, but there are many Democrats who essentially support open borders and providing people living in the country illegally with all of, if not more, the benefits than are extended to citizens.

We are nowhere near the demographics of Japan, by the way.

Again with the disdain for research and policy based "answers"! You guys are just too much.

As for the assertions that immigrants are impacting home values in MoCo, I don't see proof for that. Prices have been on the upswing for the past decade. Prices are up, but volume is down, which means that demand is high. A downturn in sales volume was also attributed to the Amazon HQ2 decision.

https://bethesdamagazine.com/bethesda-beat/real-estate-2/report-shows-mixed-results-for-home-sales-in-montgomery-county/
https://bethesdamagazine.com/bethesda-beat/real-estate-2/report-shows-mixed-results-for-home-sales-in-montgomery-county/


But when you look at the most heavily Hispanic areas in MD (e.g. Riverdale Park) you STILL find housing values appreciating nicely (up 30% over last year!)

https://www.redfin.com/city/17065/MD/Riverdale-Park/housing-market

In MoCo, Gaithersburg has seen a big growth in Lationos, but also an upward trend in house prices in the past decade: https://www.zillow.com/gaithersburg-md/home-values/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

sorry - I guess it's just that you're scared of non-white people. my bad.

You're saying he should pretend his kids' schools are just fine to get street cred with you?

Basically, that's the argument. OP feels that we should send our kids to schools that are 50% ESOL and 50% FARMS in order to prove that we're not 'racist'. Any family that wants to avoid neighborhoods with illegal immigrants is a racist, plain and simple.

All the while, OP fights for open borders and more illegal immigration from her high horse in lily white Potomac neighborhood, as she campaigns for the latest Democratic candidate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

sorry - I guess it's just that you're scared of non-white people. my bad.

You're saying he should pretend his kids' schools are just fine to get street cred with you?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is so sick- why do you conflate illegal and legal immigration. Please just stop.

Let me break it down for you, since you're cognitively impaired.

Just like Japan, the US native-born population is aging, and birth rates are slowing. Just like Japan, to support the economy, that means we need a certain rate of low-skilled immigration. Currently,d due to our lack of a rational immigration policy, those low-skilled workers are being supplied through illegal immigration. Therefore, to keep our economy growing, we need to create a route to more LEGAL immigration. But the illegal immigrants (and their US-born children) are what's keeping us from a Japan-style demographic collapse. So the conflation is that we need to transform illegal --> legal. What ideas do you have to do that?

Given that our economy needs and benefits from these low-skilled workers, but our legal system does not currently provide a route for them to work legally, it's really the legal system that should be blamed as "sick."

NP - well, aren’t you smug as can be, with all the answers.

If we are to be a country of laws and, more importantly, respect for those laws, we should not turn a blind eye to illegal immigration. And, yes, this may involve reforms to those laws, but there are many Democrats who essentially support open borders and providing people living in the country illegally with all of, if not more, the benefits than are extended to citizens.

We are nowhere near the demographics of Japan, by the way.

Again with the disdain for research and policy based "answers"! You guys are just too much.

As for the assertions that immigrants are impacting home values in MoCo, I don't see proof for that. Prices have been on the upswing for the past decade. Prices are up, but volume is down, which means that demand is high. A downturn in sales volume was also attributed to the Amazon HQ2 decision.

https://bethesdamagazine.com/bethesda-beat/real-estate-2/report-shows-mixed-results-for-home-sales-in-montgomery-county/
https://bethesdamagazine.com/bethesda-beat/real-estate-2/report-shows-mixed-results-for-home-sales-in-montgomery-county/


But when you look at the most heavily Hispanic areas in MD (e.g. Riverdale Park) you STILL find housing values appreciating nicely (up 30% over last year!)

https://www.redfin.com/city/17065/MD/Riverdale-Park/housing-market

In MoCo, Gaithersburg has seen a big growth in Lationos, but also an upward trend in house prices in the past decade: https://www.zillow.com/gaithersburg-md/home-values/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is so sick- why do you conflate illegal and legal immigration. Please just stop.

Let me break it down for you, since you're cognitively impaired.

Just like Japan, the US native-born population is aging, and birth rates are slowing. Just like Japan, to support the economy, that means we need a certain rate of low-skilled immigration. Currently,d due to our lack of a rational immigration policy, those low-skilled workers are being supplied through illegal immigration. Therefore, to keep our economy growing, we need to create a route to more LEGAL immigration. But the illegal immigrants (and their US-born children) are what's keeping us from a Japan-style demographic collapse. So the conflation is that we need to transform illegal --> legal. What ideas do you have to do that?

Given that our economy needs and benefits from these low-skilled workers, but our legal system does not currently provide a route for them to work legally, it's really the legal system that should be blamed as "sick."

NP - well, aren’t you smug as can be, with all the answers.

If we are to be a country of laws and, more importantly, respect for those laws, we should not turn a blind eye to illegal immigration. And, yes, this may involve reforms to those laws, but there are many Democrats who essentially support open borders and providing people living in the country illegally with all of, if not more, the benefits than are extended to citizens.

We are nowhere near the demographics of Japan, by the way.

Again with the disdain for research and policy based "answers"! You guys are just too much.

As for the assertions that immigrants are impacting home values in MoCo, I don't see proof for that. Prices have been on the upswing for the past decade. Prices are up, but volume is down, which means that demand is high. A downturn in sales volume was also attributed to the Amazon HQ2 decision.

https://bethesdamagazine.com/bethesda-beat/real-estate-2/report-shows-mixed-results-for-home-sales-in-montgomery-county/
https://bethesdamagazine.com/bethesda-beat/real-estate-2/report-shows-mixed-results-for-home-sales-in-montgomery-county/


But when you look at the most heavily Hispanic areas in MD (e.g. Riverdale Park) you STILL find housing values appreciating nicely (up 30% over last year!)

https://www.redfin.com/city/17065/MD/Riverdale-Park/housing-market

In MoCo, Gaithersburg has seen a big growth in Lationos, but also an upward trend in house prices in the past decade: https://www.zillow.com/gaithersburg-md/home-values/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is so sick- why do you conflate illegal and legal immigration. Please just stop.

Let me break it down for you, since you're cognitively impaired.

Just like Japan, the US native-born population is aging, and birth rates are slowing. Just like Japan, to support the economy, that means we need a certain rate of low-skilled immigration. Currently,d due to our lack of a rational immigration policy, those low-skilled workers are being supplied through illegal immigration. Therefore, to keep our economy growing, we need to create a route to more LEGAL immigration. But the illegal immigrants (and their US-born children) are what's keeping us from a Japan-style demographic collapse. So the conflation is that we need to transform illegal --> legal. What ideas do you have to do that?

Given that our economy needs and benefits from these low-skilled workers, but our legal system does not currently provide a route for them to work legally, it's really the legal system that should be blamed as "sick."

NP - well, aren’t you smug as can be, with all the answers.

If we are to be a country of laws and, more importantly, respect for those laws, we should not turn a blind eye to illegal immigration. And, yes, this may involve reforms to those laws, but there are many Democrats who essentially support open borders and providing people living in the country illegally with all of, if not more, the benefits than are extended to citizens.

We are nowhere near the demographics of Japan, by the way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is so sick- why do you conflate illegal and legal immigration. Please just stop.

Let me break it down for you, since you're cognitively impaired.

Just like Japan, the US native-born population is aging, and birth rates are slowing. Just like Japan, to support the economy, that means we need a certain rate of low-skilled immigration. Currently,d due to our lack of a rational immigration policy, those low-skilled workers are being supplied through illegal immigration. Therefore, to keep our economy growing, we need to create a route to more LEGAL immigration. But the illegal immigrants (and their US-born children) are what's keeping us from a Japan-style demographic collapse. So the conflation is that we need to transform illegal --> legal. What ideas do you have to do that?

Given that our economy needs and benefits from these low-skilled workers, but our legal system does not currently provide a route for them to work legally, it's really the legal system that should be blamed as "sick."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Okay? I’m that PP and I’m not white. I’m scared of myself? Nope. But I do dislike the overcrowding in my neighborhood. I dislike that my kids’ schools have to spend SO much money on ESOL, at the expense of other programs, like Art and Music. I dislike that our once family-friendly park gets overrun by people drinking later at night (yes, we neighbors have called the Park Police and filed complaints, but the MoCO is not very responsive). I dislike that we’ve had more hit and runs where people run into your car and just leave because they are driving illegally and/or don’t have car insurance.

Look, we live in an area in MoCO that was a nice, family-friendly place to live and raise kids. In the last 12 years, we have had a HUGE influx of illegal immigrants from all over the world. And it has led to a decline in my own standard of living, in my own neighborhood. That makes me sad.

I'm sure the OP will call you names and demand research before she acknowledges that you have a point.

In fact, yes, I will. That's what this thread is about, and I'm sorry it pisses people off so much to have to actually show that their opinions are grounded in fact.

Yes, neighborhoods change socioeconomically - that's neither here nor there. I'm sure a lot of people who love to buy giant houses in SE DC but can't because of "those" people.

What? No one has to show you a damn thing. Remember, you are the one who opened this thread. You are the one making arguments and asking for understanding. You are the one throwing tantrums like a little baby demanding people agree with you. And now you're stomping your little feet because it didn't go the way you wanted.

And now let's translate your second paragraph into straight English. "I don't care about your property values, your children's schooling, your quality of life. I have research! and research is more important than you. Go away with your stupid experiences and life stories. So what that "those" people affected your life, you aren't really all that important."

+1,000,000
OP has quickly become one of the more tiresome posters on DCUM. What a moron. I’m done presenting “research” to the OP, as if s/he somehow makes the decisions. All I have to do is take a drive through the neighborhood to see with my own eyes the damage illegal immigration has done to our community.

DP. It's the same with my neighborhood in lower Mont County. Practically half the school is ESOL, and investors are buying houses and building them out to rent basement apartments to a second family[b]. It's probably one of the only places within 10 miles of DC where you can buy a 5-bedroom house on a 1/2 acre for $450,000.

FTR, this is currently ILLEGAL in Montgomery County. You can't rent out a basement apartment, unless you actually live in the home. Unfortunately the county doesn't enforce any of its own rules, and chooses to look the other way in these situations, so landlords are able to rake in tons of cash (cash only payments, so no recorded income!) on these units.

Our neighborhood association tried to do something about these 'investors', but it's almost impossible to prove who lives in those homes when most of the residents are 'undocumented'. You end up with 7 cars parked in front of the house. Construction work that is not up to code. Seven kids attending school, whereas in reality, it should be less than that. Trash all over the yard.

We also have homes that investors have purchased to build up a second story to do this type of rental. Of course, no rental license.

We're not even that close to a Metro. Maybe it used to be that these residents needed public transport, but in our neighborhood, they seem to have multiple cars. So being close to public transport is not a necessity anymore.

I wonder if we live in the same neighborhood. It used to be you could drive up the block, and if a car was approaching you, you just pulled to the side. Now it's car-to-car parked along both sides of the street, so if you are driving up and someone is driving down, there's nowhere to pull to the side. You can't even back into someone's driveway to clear room, since they are are taken. I have had to back up a full block to let someone pass. It is very apparent that two, and perhaps three, families are living in many of these houses.

As far as the illegality of multiple families living in the SFHs, our association has had no luck enforcing the laws. MoCo knows where all the illegal immigrants are settling, and they go very easy on them - again an example of liberals putting the interests of illegals ahead of Americans.

On a lesser concern, the homes are being poorly maintained. Grass and weeds grow unattended, and all sorts of toys and kids scooters litter the front lawn. There are old, banged-up cars all over. Bit the main problem is the school, which is the lowest in the entire county and overwhelming populated by non-English speakers. Single families won't buy here for that reason, and investors are scooping up houses and bargain prices and converting them - illegally - I to multiple-dwelling units. There was an arrest in a nearby house, and they found 15 people living there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Oh you can stuff it. Please, detail here all the progressive, labor-rights policies you advocate for?

Regularlizing immigration is PRECISELY to protect workers right. Having an "illegal" class of workers is a recipe for exploitation.

Stuff it? I thought you're all about intelligent debate and research and whatnot?

You have this weird, utopic idea that illegal migrants who put up with low pay, terrible conditions, and utter absence of employee rights for no reason other than not being able to work better jobs, will continue working in the same terrible jobs once they are legally able to work anywhere else. Why? You think they are loyal to their slumlords?

The industries that rely on illegal migrant labor aren't doing it because they love migrants. They do it because they love paying artificially low wages and ignoring benefits and employee rights. That's what you are arguing should be preserved. And you are somehow persisting in your conviction that people who currently eat margarine because they can't have butter will weirdly continue doing that even when butter becomes available.

My cleaning lady is a legal immigrant (chain migration). Her brother works on a farm in the Midwest (also legal). Their kids are not going to take these types of jobs - they are working hard to get educations. They are the classic American immigrant story.

So yes, when people get regularized, they stay in jobs native born Americans don’t want but hopefully have some social protections. Their kids won’t stay in those jobs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Okay? I’m that PP and I’m not white. I’m scared of myself? Nope. But I do dislike the overcrowding in my neighborhood. I dislike that my kids’ schools have to spend SO much money on ESOL, at the expense of other programs, like Art and Music. I dislike that our once family-friendly park gets overrun by people drinking later at night (yes, we neighbors have called the Park Police and filed complaints, but the MoCO is not very responsive). I dislike that we’ve had more hit and runs where people run into your car and just leave because they are driving illegally and/or don’t have car insurance.

Look, we live in an area in MoCO that was a nice, family-friendly place to live and raise kids. In the last 12 years, we have had a HUGE influx of illegal immigrants from all over the world. And it has led to a decline in my own standard of living, in my own neighborhood. That makes me sad.

I'm sure the OP will call you names and demand research before she acknowledges that you have a point.

In fact, yes, I will. That's what this thread is about, and I'm sorry it pisses people off so much to have to actually show that their opinions are grounded in fact.

Yes, neighborhoods change socioeconomically - that's neither here nor there. I'm sure a lot of people who love to buy giant houses in SE DC but can't because of "those" people.

What? No one has to show you a damn thing. Remember, you are the one who opened this thread. You are the one making arguments and asking for understanding. You are the one throwing tantrums like a little baby demanding people agree with you. And now you're stomping your little feet because it didn't go the way you wanted.

And now let's translate your second paragraph into straight English. "I don't care about your property values, your children's schooling, your quality of life. I have research! and research is more important than you. Go away with your stupid experiences and life stories. So what that "those" people affected your life, you aren't really all that important."

+1,000,000
OP has quickly become one of the more tiresome posters on DCUM. What a moron. I’m done presenting “research” to the OP, as if s/he somehow makes the decisions. All I have to do is take a drive through the neighborhood to see with my own eyes the damage illegal immigration has done to our community.

DP. It's the same with my neighborhood in lower Mont County. Practically half the school is ESOL, and investors are buying houses and building them out to rent basement apartments to a second family[b]. It's probably one of the only places within 10 miles of DC where you can buy a 5-bedroom house on a 1/2 acre for $450,000.

FTR, this is currently ILLEGAL in Montgomery County. You can't rent out a basement apartment, unless you actually live in the home. Unfortunately the county doesn't enforce any of its own rules, and chooses to look the other way in these situations, so landlords are able to rake in tons of cash (cash only payments, so no recorded income!) on these units.

Our neighborhood association tried to do something about these 'investors', but it's almost impossible to prove who lives in those homes when most of the residents are 'undocumented'. You end up with 7 cars parked in front of the house. Construction work that is not up to code. Seven kids attending school, whereas in reality, it should be less than that. Trash all over the yard.

We also have homes that investors have purchased to build up a second story to do this type of rental. Of course, no rental license.

We're not even that close to a Metro. Maybe it used to be that these residents needed public transport, but in our neighborhood, they seem to have multiple cars. So being close to public transport is not a necessity anymore.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Oh you can stuff it. Please, detail here all the progressive, labor-rights policies you advocate for?

Regularlizing immigration is PRECISELY to protect workers right. Having an "illegal" class of workers is a recipe for exploitation.

Stuff it? I thought you're all about intelligent debate and research and whatnot?

You have this weird, utopic idea that illegal migrants who put up with low pay, terrible conditions, and utter absence of employee rights for no reason other than not being able to work better jobs, will continue working in the same terrible jobs once they are legally able to work anywhere else. Why? You think they are loyal to their slumlords?

The industries that rely on illegal migrant labor aren't doing it because they love migrants. They do it because they love paying artificially low wages and ignoring benefits and employee rights. That's what you are arguing should be preserved. And you are somehow persisting in your conviction that people who currently eat margarine because they can't have butter will weirdly continue doing that even when butter becomes available.