Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's always going to be SOME cutoff date because our society has arbitrary rules like that. Everyone is eligible to drink at 21 despite significantly varying levels of maturity at that age. Everyone has to obey the same speed limits despite dramatically different levels of driving skill and reaction time. On and on.

So yes, in theory if cutoff date is 9/30 there are going to be a handful of kids in September or August who should ideally wait and go with following cohort because they are developmentally not ready. And vice-versa there's going to be some October and November kids who probably would have been best served to have enrolled a year earlier rather because they WERE developmentally ready, rather than waiting just because they missed some semi-arbitrary cutoff by a few weeks. But that's not how our society operates, by and large, we have one-size-fits-all rules and just deal with it.

No matter the cutoff date, there's always going to be kids on either side of the cusp... and the vast majority of those kids would be perfectly fine with EITHER cohort. So unless there's a strong, compelling reason to redshirt (or enroll early), it seems to me just stick with the program. FWIW, I've got a September 2yo DD and at this stage have seen no developmental shortcomings that would compel us to redshirt, so plan is to enroll on time but continue to monitor in case anything changes dramatically in her development (seems unlikely, but you never know).

Here is my experience. I also had a two year old DD with tan end of August birthday who was meeting all milestones. She spoke earlier than most, had lots of friends, etc. She was not speaking English much/at all, but was speaking two other languages very well. We enrolled her into DCPS PK3 and she started school a few days before turning 3. She was in a mixed age class (PK3 and PK4). Obviously she was the youngest (by 3 months), the most immature and the one with the worst English. She hated it. We spent 1 year trying to have her like school and tried everything and failed. She was doing fine “academically” and picked up English quickly, but the problem was that the 4 and older 3 year old girls did not want to play with her and excluded her. She just wasn’t able to keep up and was said and crying a lot. The teacher was a good guy, but he had to take care of 16 other kids some of which were getting into “fights” and had other issues. As a result, nobody paid attention to my little girl who was just quietly crying in the corner. It broke my heart and decided never more. She started not sleeping at night, wetting her bed (she was fully pottyvtranined by 2), biting her nails, etc.
The following year she was in a private part time o reschool where the oldest kid was 4 months older than her and the youngest was 2 months younger than her. She blossomed there. She was again happy and loving school. Stopped peeing at night, stopped waking up Witt nightmares, stopped biting her nails, etc. after a great year at this preschool I was faced with the decision of pulling her out to start K somewhere else or keep her there with all her friends (all redshirted except for the September and October birthdays). I chose to keep her in preschool another year and start K when she was about to turn 6. She still is sensitive, too nice and does not stand up for her self. She is slowly getting better, but why (given that I have the choice) would I want to put her in a class where everyone else is older and where she may not be happy again? What horrible mother would I be?
No, she will be a little older instead of younger. If when in middle school she asks why I did not send her when I was supposed to, I will tell her the truth and that for kids with birthdays around the cutoff parents can chose and we chose to have her be the oldest instead of the youngest

This is an issue of school choice and the school not working for the child vs. the child. Its also an issue if child was not speaking English.

I don't know-- my little sister, who spoke fine English in K, had a similar experience. My parents were worried about making the social isolation worse by holding her back in the same school (and having that stigma), but we couldn't afford private school, so she stayed on grade level. She never blossomed socially and while she's academically capable, her anxiety makes it hard for her to perform at high levels. It took her 6.5 years to earn a 4yr degree (full time student) and now works in a job that doesn't even require a degree. I know she had different aspirations for herself, and it's hard watching her struggle as an adult.

Maybe if you can afford tons of out of school tutoring, a coach for executive functioning skills, other after school activities to help your child find a place to find confidence and excel, redshirting isn't needed. But if either of my kids had August birthdays and didn't seem ready for K, I would hold them back in a heartbeat. It's correlation not necessarily causation, I know, but of 4 siblings the only one who struggled is the one that should have been held back.

I’ve never read a story until this one, of entering school on time generating anxiety that led to these possible consequences. It’s a real outlier.

Something similar happened to me, except that I have been professionally successful. But it took years and counseling to deal with the anxiety. My sister who was in the same situation and who has a very similar personality was held back -- my parents recognized their mistake by then -- and she has not suffered from the same crippling anxiety issues.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have experience with starting an August child on time to give it a shot, then repeating K?

I posted earlier in the thread that we did this. The extra year helped a lot with social/emotional development and some mild anxiety. DD is doing great and I have no regrets.

I forgot to mention that we didn't start K expecting to repeat. It never occurred to me until the school brought it up and we conferred with the principal and several teachers. I'd have considered redshirting had I really thought DD wasn't ready.

Really glad this is working out for you. Did she repeat K with a different teacher? Any negatives with repeating? (Not moving on with friends, being bored, etc?)

The principal gave us a choice of repeating with the same teacher, or a different one. We chose to stay with the same teacher. I can't really think of any negatives resulting from the decision to repeat. DD kept up with her old friends for a while through Girl Scouts, and made plenty of new friends the second time around. Quite a few of those new friends have birthdays that fall in the 2-3 months after DDs which makes her closer in age to them than she was to a lot of the kids she'd started out with. DD is above grade level in history and Language Arts, and solidly at grade level in math. Still a bit more sensitive and prone to frustration than many of her peers, but not to the point where it's a problem, and at this point I can't imagine her being a grade level ahead of where she is. She fits in both academically and socially right where she is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have experience with starting an August child on time to give it a shot, then repeating K?

I posted earlier in the thread that we did this. The extra year helped a lot with social/emotional development and some mild anxiety. DD is doing great and I have no regrets.

I forgot to mention that we didn't start K expecting to repeat. It never occurred to me until the school brought it up and we conferred with the principal and several teachers. I'd have considered redshirting had I really thought DD wasn't ready.

Similar story here. We started my daughter in a private KG, which was a disaster. Pulled her out at 6 weeks and started her in public about 3-4 weeks later.

At the end of public KG her teacher was on the fence with repeating, but said, if for example, you were moving, I'd definitely recommend it. That sealed the deal for us and she repeated KG with the same teacher. It was not a big deal with classmates/socially.

What we didn't know with my daughter is that she has anxiety - we weren't working with her on it at that time and it overwhelmed her as far as learning and being in a classroom setting.

She was also two months premature - if she had been born on time she would have missed the cutoff. She was always less mature than her sister and was perfectly content to remain as "the baby." These are all factors in why she repeated. It has been the best decision for her. She has several friends that have birthdays close to hers - she's a little older, but not noticeably so.

I know a family who recently held a kid back who was extremely premature, had several medical issues at birth, and was much smaller than all classmates--to me these are completely legitimate developmental concerns. While I generally don't favor redshirting unless recommended by teachers, pediatricians, etc., I may have also done it in similar circumstances.

NP here. I've read through a lot of the posts, although this topic seems to come up a lot. I would NOT redshirt (and I hate that word) a child who does not have significant LD's or is grossly immature. My June DD went on time. She was, and still is, bigger than almost all the kids in her grade (she is in middle school now). She went into K not knowing how to read at all (getting letters and sounds confused). She ended K reading at a 2nd grade level. She is currently above/ahead of her peers with fall birthdays (doing work several grade levels ahead). So, I would not hold back in K, like I said, unless there are glaring issues.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have experience with starting an August child on time to give it a shot, then repeating K?

I posted earlier in the thread that we did this. The extra year helped a lot with social/emotional development and some mild anxiety. DD is doing great and I have no regrets.

I forgot to mention that we didn't start K expecting to repeat. It never occurred to me until the school brought it up and we conferred with the principal and several teachers. I'd have considered redshirting had I really thought DD wasn't ready.

Similar story here. We started my daughter in a private KG, which was a disaster. Pulled her out at 6 weeks and started her in public about 3-4 weeks later.

At the end of public KG her teacher was on the fence with repeating, but said, if for example, you were moving, I'd definitely recommend it. That sealed the deal for us and she repeated KG with the same teacher. It was not a big deal with classmates/socially.

What we didn't know with my daughter is that she has anxiety - we weren't working with her on it at that time and it overwhelmed her as far as learning and being in a classroom setting.

She was also two months premature - if she had been born on time she would have missed the cutoff. She was always less mature than her sister and was perfectly content to remain as "the baby." These are all factors in why she repeated. It has been the best decision for her. She has several friends that have birthdays close to hers - she's a little older, but not noticeably so.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have experience with starting an August child on time to give it a shot, then repeating K?

I posted earlier in the thread that we did this. The extra year helped a lot with social/emotional development and some mild anxiety. DD is doing great and I have no regrets.

I forgot to mention that we didn't start K expecting to repeat. It never occurred to me until the school brought it up and we conferred with the principal and several teachers. I'd have considered redshirting had I really thought DD wasn't ready.

DP. We started our September birthday DS on time. Kindergarten didn't go well, but he was ahead academically. I asked about repeating kindergarten and they said absolutely not.

How did your DS do in first grade (and beyond)?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Omg, another epic post where people weigh in with vehement opinions on other people’s lives.
So pathetic!

It's really only the anti-redshirt posters who fall into that bucket. Though they do tend to pitch a fit when their hypocrisy is observed and commented on.

“I didn’t redshirt, though.”

It’s so odd for anyone in general to be rabidly pro redshirting. One of my BFFs has a child who is the literal youngest in an insanely competitive school. And they didn’t opt for it. There are other ways to go about life.

People aren't rabidly pro-redshirting. What they are want, at most, is a proocess where there aren't rigid cutoffs and there is greater parental discretion. It's the anti-redshirts that are rabid on DCUM, all without any real evidence to back their positions.

I didn't redshirt. But I find the topic interesting, and follow the discussions, such as they are.

There are no rabid pro redshirters bc the red-shirting parents don’t want everyone to redshirt. Then they’d be in the same boat as if they didn’t redshirt their kid.

+1

Despite what they claim, this is all absolutely about having their child be one of the strongest (or at least not the weakest), relatively speaking. They cheat to try to ensure that there will always be kids below their own. It’s disgusting.

I do wonder what would happen if everyone held their child back. Would these parents hold back their child another year? Would we have 7/8 year olds in Ker?

No they couldn’t.
You have to start school by 6. I believe the laws about starting school at 6 came about when public K first started and this was a way to let families skip K and start at 1st at 6, but it has evolved into a loophole allowing families to start K at 6.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's always going to be SOME cutoff date because our society has arbitrary rules like that. Everyone is eligible to drink at 21 despite significantly varying levels of maturity at that age. Everyone has to obey the same speed limits despite dramatically different levels of driving skill and reaction time. On and on.

So yes, in theory if cutoff date is 9/30 there are going to be a handful of kids in September or August who should ideally wait and go with following cohort because they are developmentally not ready. And vice-versa there's going to be some October and November kids who probably would have been best served to have enrolled a year earlier rather because they WERE developmentally ready, rather than waiting just because they missed some semi-arbitrary cutoff by a few weeks. But that's not how our society operates, by and large, we have one-size-fits-all rules and just deal with it.

No matter the cutoff date, there's always going to be kids on either side of the cusp... and the vast majority of those kids would be perfectly fine with EITHER cohort. So unless there's a strong, compelling reason to redshirt (or enroll early), it seems to me just stick with the program. FWIW, I've got a September 2yo DD and at this stage have seen no developmental shortcomings that would compel us to redshirt, so plan is to enroll on time but continue to monitor in case anything changes dramatically in her development (seems unlikely, but you never know).

Here is my experience. I also had a two year old DD with tan end of August birthday who was meeting all milestones. She spoke earlier than most, had lots of friends, etc. She was not speaking English much/at all, but was speaking two other languages very well. We enrolled her into DCPS PK3 and she started school a few days before turning 3. She was in a mixed age class (PK3 and PK4). Obviously she was the youngest (by 3 months), the most immature and the one with the worst English. She hated it. We spent 1 year trying to have her like school and tried everything and failed. She was doing fine “academically” and picked up English quickly, but the problem was that the 4 and older 3 year old girls did not want to play with her and excluded her. She just wasn’t able to keep up and was said and crying a lot. The teacher was a good guy, but he had to take care of 16 other kids some of which were getting into “fights” and had other issues. As a result, nobody paid attention to my little girl who was just quietly crying in the corner. It broke my heart and decided never more. She started not sleeping at night, wetting her bed (she was fully pottyvtranined by 2), biting her nails, etc.
The following year she was in a private part time o reschool where the oldest kid was 4 months older than her and the youngest was 2 months younger than her. She blossomed there. She was again happy and loving school. Stopped peeing at night, stopped waking up Witt nightmares, stopped biting her nails, etc. after a great year at this preschool I was faced with the decision of pulling her out to start K somewhere else or keep her there with all her friends (all redshirted except for the September and October birthdays). I chose to keep her in preschool another year and start K when she was about to turn 6. She still is sensitive, too nice and does not stand up for her self. She is slowly getting better, but why (given that I have the choice) would I want to put her in a class where everyone else is older and where she may not be happy again? What horrible mother would I be?
No, she will be a little older instead of younger. If when in middle school she asks why I did not send her when I was supposed to, I will tell her the truth and that for kids with birthdays around the cutoff parents can chose and we chose to have her be the oldest instead of the youngest

This is an issue of school choice and the school not working for the child vs. the child. Its also an issue if child was not speaking English.

I don't know-- my little sister, who spoke fine English in K, had a similar experience. My parents were worried about making the social isolation worse by holding her back in the same school (and having that stigma), but we couldn't afford private school, so she stayed on grade level. She never blossomed socially and while she's academically capable, her anxiety makes it hard for her to perform at high levels. It took her 6.5 years to earn a 4yr degree (full time student) and now works in a job that doesn't even require a degree. I know she had different aspirations for herself, and it's hard watching her struggle as an adult.

Maybe if you can afford tons of out of school tutoring, a coach for executive functioning skills, other after school activities to help your child find a place to find confidence and excel, redshirting isn't needed. But if either of my kids had August birthdays and didn't seem ready for K, I would hold them back in a heartbeat. It's correlation not necessarily causation, I know, but of 4 siblings the only one who struggled is the one that should have been held back.

I think the part about correlation not equaling causation is key. The anxiety you describe may have onset around the same time as the early-ish start in kindergarten, but it wasn't necessarily caused by it. I think it's natural for us to notice negative events/outcomes, and then look back for things that were proximal, and to think they're causal--similar to vaccines and autism ("My child got her set of shots and after that started having problems socially--she was fine before vaccines, therefore I'm anti-vaxx" etc.).

It is quite possible she would have experienced problems with anxiety even if she stayed back a year, especially it runs in the family, and especially if the anxiety went untreated. I don't know if anyone can say for sure either way.

I am a September birthday and my parents regret starting me at five but I have learning disabilities and my Mom thinks that another year at home might have been helpful for me. My younger brother, also with learning disabilities, is an August birthday and started on time. The school recommended him being pulled from kindergarten and starting again at 6. They did that. Then he was held back in first grade.

I did fine in school, I did struggle in ES and MS but came into my own in HS. My younger brother did fine in school, not great but he went to college and graduated and is killing his career.

Make a decision based on your child. If you are worried that your child is not emotionally/socially/academically ready at 5, then hold them back. I think that is a decision that is best made by talking to your Pre School teachers. I did have a friend whose son was on the cut off and wanted to send her child to K. The Pre School teachers were clear that it was not a good idea, the boy was not socially or emotionally ready. The parents agreed and held him for a year. When I talk to them now, he is still struggling with some elements of K.

I have no problem with my friends who made the decision to hold their child back. They were not ready in some element (speech, LDs, emotionally young)

My only objection to waiting are the people who are doing it only so that their child might have an academic or athletic advantage. They want their child to be the best student or have some type of athletic advantage. That is flat out ridiculous and should not happen.

The problem for the schools would be how do you sort that out? The reality is that the schools cannot sort that out and have to accept the decision of the parents.

On the other hand, I have friends whose child was a week past the cut off and decided to attend a private kindergarten knowing that the school would have to take her as a first grader the following year. The test for early admittance to kindergarten is ridiculous, essentially the kids have to be at the level of a kid who has completed kindergarten before they year starts. They felt their daughter was ready for kindergarten and used the loop hole to get her started on what they considered on time without playing FCPS game.

Make the choice that works for your kid. I tend not to judge, unless you tell me that you want your kid to be the oldest so that they are better at sports or the smartest. Then I am going to internally judge the hell out of you

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have not read all of this thread but I am a woman who was essentially red-shirted. I missed the school cutoff by a few days. Where I grew up, most parents with kids in my position sent their kid to private school for one year, and then switched them back to public so they could start "on time." My parents did not. I was always on the old range for my classes, and when I grew up and went to an elite college (actually elite, HYPS) I was significantly older than many of my classmates who were "advanced" for their ages. I'm a full 18 months older than some of my college classmates. I wish now that my parents had started me on time. In the grand scheme of things it's not a huge deal, but just adding that to this convo if it hasn't been said already.

How old were you when you graduated HS?

At my top 10 college we had a wide range of ages -- people who skipped 1-2 years of school, people who took a gap year. Different states had different cut-off months. It didn't seem like a big deal at all and I was one of the youngest.

I was 18 and a half. It was weird to start college with people who had just turned 17. Like I said, in the grand scheme of things it's not a huge deal. But didn't seem like this perspective had been offered.

I skipped a grade with a spring birthday and went to college as a fairly new 17 year old. It really didn't matter whether someone was 18 months older than I was.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have experience with starting an August child on time to give it a shot, then repeating K?

I posted earlier in the thread that we did this. The extra year helped a lot with social/emotional development and some mild anxiety. DD is doing great and I have no regrets.

I forgot to mention that we didn't start K expecting to repeat. It never occurred to me until the school brought it up and we conferred with the principal and several teachers. I'd have considered redshirting had I really thought DD wasn't ready.

DP. We started our September birthday DS on time. Kindergarten didn't go well, but he was ahead academically. I asked about repeating kindergarten and they said absolutely not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Omg, another epic post where people weigh in with vehement opinions on other people’s lives.
So pathetic!

It's really only the anti-redshirt posters who fall into that bucket. Though they do tend to pitch a fit when their hypocrisy is observed and commented on.

“I didn’t redshirt, though.”

It’s so odd for anyone in general to be rabidly pro redshirting. One of my BFFs has a child who is the literal youngest in an insanely competitive school. And they didn’t opt for it. There are other ways to go about life.

People aren't rabidly pro-redshirting. What they are want, at most, is a proocess where there aren't rigid cutoffs and there is greater parental discretion. It's the anti-redshirts that are rabid on DCUM, all without any real evidence to back their positions.

I didn't redshirt. But I find the topic interesting, and follow the discussions, such as they are.

There are no rabid pro redshirters bc the red-shirting parents don’t want everyone to redshirt. Then they’d be in the same boat as if they didn’t redshirt their kid.

+1

Despite what they claim, this is all absolutely about having their child be one of the strongest (or at least not the weakest), relatively speaking. They cheat to try to ensure that there will always be kids below their own. It’s disgusting.

I do wonder what would happen if everyone held their child back. Would these parents hold back their child another year? Would we have 7/8 year olds in Ker?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have not read all of this thread but I am a woman who was essentially red-shirted. I missed the school cutoff by a few days. Where I grew up, most parents with kids in my position sent their kid to private school for one year, and then switched them back to public so they could start "on time." My parents did not. I was always on the old range for my classes, and when I grew up and went to an elite college (actually elite, HYPS) I was significantly older than many of my classmates who were "advanced" for their ages. I'm a full 18 months older than some of my college classmates. I wish now that my parents had started me on time. In the grand scheme of things it's not a huge deal, but just adding that to this convo if it hasn't been said already.

How old were you when you graduated HS?

At my top 10 college we had a wide range of ages -- people who skipped 1-2 years of school, people who took a gap year. Different states had different cut-off months. It didn't seem like a big deal at all and I was one of the youngest.

I was 18 and a half. It was weird to start college with people who had just turned 17. Like I said, in the grand scheme of things it's not a huge deal. But didn't seem like this perspective had been offered.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have experience with starting an August child on time to give it a shot, then repeating K?

I posted earlier in the thread that we did this. The extra year helped a lot with social/emotional development and some mild anxiety. DD is doing great and I have no regrets.

I forgot to mention that we didn't start K expecting to repeat. It never occurred to me until the school brought it up and we conferred with the principal and several teachers. I'd have considered redshirting had I really thought DD wasn't ready.

Really glad this is working out for you. Did she repeat K with a different teacher? Any negatives with repeating? (Not moving on with friends, being bored, etc?)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have experience with starting an August child on time to give it a shot, then repeating K?

I posted earlier in the thread that we did this. The extra year helped a lot with social/emotional development and some mild anxiety. DD is doing great and I have no regrets.

I forgot to mention that we didn't start K expecting to repeat. It never occurred to me until the school brought it up and we conferred with the principal and several teachers. I'd have considered redshirting had I really thought DD wasn't ready.