Anonymous
Post 10/11/2018 12:51     Subject: Be careful biking with your family
Anonymous wrote:That family should have waited for all the cars on that road to stop.
Yes, the driver in the SUV was clearly wrong, but we live in an imperfect world and all the legal right in the world won't make up for your kid dying in an accident.
Also, I heard a car honking, so thankfully, at least one stopped driver was able to intervene and alert the moving SUV to slow down.


This 1000%. The mom should have NEVER let her small child bike across unaccompanied on that busy road. Or the dad should have waited and walked altogether with his kids. I don't fault the SUV. I understand that people will disagree but I do not think it's the SUV responsibility to necessarily slow down if the car to the left is stopped. That car could be making a left or asleep at the wheel. It is, however, the responsibility of the parents to make sure the kids are safe at a crossing that does not have a stop light or very visible signage that someone is crossing.
Anonymous
Post 10/11/2018 12:43     Subject: Be careful biking with your family
Anonymous wrote:And the driver didn’t notice the car stopped on his left at the crosswalk.


Cars stop for so many reasons it does not always resonate that it is for someone crossing.

The parents really messed up. There was so much time beyeeem the dad and the little girl and the mom did not go with the girl. I get it happens (kids refuse to go and then go suddenly) But i have seen many pedestrians almost get hit in this situation. The stopped car blocks the view of the other cars and the other cars do not realize the car is stopped for a pedestrian. I have been both the stopped car and the car that drove by. We teach our kid to cross at lights.
Anonymous
Post 10/11/2018 11:45     Subject: Be careful biking with your family
Anonymous wrote:That family should have waited for all the cars on that road to stop.
Yes, the driver in the SUV was clearly wrong, but we live in an imperfect world and all the legal right in the world won't make up for your kid dying in an accident.
Also, I heard a car honking, so thankfully, at least one stopped driver was able to intervene and alert the moving SUV to slow down.


Then they'd still be standing there.

"While ABC7 News was there Tuesday, ABC7's Jay Korff witnessed pedestrian and cyclists repeatedly dodging danger as cars frequently refused to stop at the crosswalk."

https://wjla.com/features/7-on-your-side/dangerous-crosswalk-maryland-state-highway-administration
Anonymous
Post 10/11/2018 11:44     Subject: Be careful biking with your family
This would have been a close call even if the mother was walking next to the child. The issue is the driver blowing past the already stopped car. There's a reason why the law required the SUV to stop. The SUV was not paying attention to the road. If the mother had been walking next to the child, the SUV still would have blown right in front of them.
Anonymous
Post 10/11/2018 11:44     Subject: Be careful biking with your family
Anonymous wrote:

1) The girl was tiny and was absolutely biking at faster than a walking pace, and was not old enough to be on the lookout for cars that were failing to stop. Notice that the mom herself then dismounted.
2) The issues of physics and visibility are identical for riding off a bike path as riding off a sidewalk into the intersection. Bike path is even more dangerous because cars are likely even less primed to be looking for people crossing. The fact that you don't grasp this suggests you don't know/care about biking.
3) I'm not sure why you persist in arguing about this, but you sure seem to have zero interest or knowledge about urban biking, or interest in informing parents about how they can bike safely with small kids.


Alternatively, I may have plenty of experience in biking in cities (not that this actually is biking in cities) - I just disagree with you. People with experience in X often do disagree with other people with experience in X. That is well known.
Anonymous
Post 10/11/2018 11:40     Subject: Be careful biking with your family
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Walk OR ride very slowly. Why is that so hard to understand? There is absolutely a safety issue with bikes in crosswalks - I posted like a kagillion links about it. I don't care if you want to fight with me on DCUM, but if you're unwilling to do the basic amount of self-educating about safe urban bike riding, PLEASE do not take your kids out biking!


You posted like a kagillion links about bicycling on sidewalks.

And the people in the video actually were riding very slowly through the crossing. It was a little kid on a little bike, as multiple PPs have pointed out. It wasn't Miguel Indurain on a training ride.


1) The girl was tiny and was absolutely biking at faster than a walking pace, and was not old enough to be on the lookout for cars that were failing to stop. Notice that the mom herself then dismounted.
2) The issues of physics and visibility are identical for riding off a bike path as riding off a sidewalk into the intersection. Bike path is even more dangerous because cars are likely even less primed to be looking for people crossing. The fact that you don't grasp this suggests you don't know/care about biking.
3) I'm not sure why you persist in arguing about this, but you sure seem to have zero interest or knowledge about urban biking, or interest in informing parents about how they can bike safely with small kids.
Anonymous
Post 10/11/2018 11:37     Subject: Be careful biking with your family
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Road biking is so, so dangerous. I wish our roads were more bike-friendly, but they're just not.


They were biking on a bike trail. They were simply crossing a street, at pedestrian speed. They waited for traffic to stop and then entered crosswalk. They should have been pretty visible with bike and colored gear. Assume black suv was on phone.


The dad was in head to toe black.
Not very responsible.


Now you're not even allowed to wear black in broad daylight?

How about people driving black cars - is that irresponsible too?


OMG. It's like you WANT bikes to get hit by cars! Why do you think that every bit of safe-biking advice somehow exonerates drivers?
Anonymous
Post 10/11/2018 11:37     Subject: Be careful biking with your family
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Road biking is so, so dangerous. I wish our roads were more bike-friendly, but they're just not.


They were biking on a bike trail. They were simply crossing a street, at pedestrian speed. They waited for traffic to stop and then entered crosswalk. They should have been pretty visible with bike and colored gear. Assume black suv was on phone.


The dad was in head to toe black.
Not very responsible.


Now you're not even allowed to wear black in broad daylight?

How about people driving black cars - is that irresponsible too?


That is the dumbest analogy I've ever seen.
If you're biking with your small child MAKE YOURSELF VISIBLE!

Every road bicycling organization recommends to NEVER wear all black while riding, wearing bright colors is safest... especially with a small kid.
Anonymous
Post 10/11/2018 11:34     Subject: Be careful biking with your family
That family should have waited for all the cars on that road to stop.
Yes, the driver in the SUV was clearly wrong, but we live in an imperfect world and all the legal right in the world won't make up for your kid dying in an accident.
Also, I heard a car honking, so thankfully, at least one stopped driver was able to intervene and alert the moving SUV to slow down.
Anonymous
Post 10/11/2018 11:34     Subject: Be careful biking with your family
Anonymous wrote:

Walk OR ride very slowly. Why is that so hard to understand? There is absolutely a safety issue with bikes in crosswalks - I posted like a kagillion links about it. I don't care if you want to fight with me on DCUM, but if you're unwilling to do the basic amount of self-educating about safe urban bike riding, PLEASE do not take your kids out biking!


You posted like a kagillion links about bicycling on sidewalks.

And the people in the video actually were riding very slowly through the crossing. It was a little kid on a little bike, as multiple PPs have pointed out. It wasn't Miguel Indurain on a training ride.
Anonymous
Post 10/11/2018 11:34     Subject: Be careful biking with your family
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
The dad was in head to toe black.
Not very responsible.


The dad was pulling a bike trailer with a bright pink awning. In daylight. His clothing could not have been an issue.


Uh, watch it again... he was in a very shaded area in head to toe black, he completely blended into the background of the trees.

Due to that, the awning appeared to be sitting on the side of the road by itself, it could have been anything & not necessarily a trailer.



+1
I at first agreed that the dad & trailer could be plainly seen, but I took the PP suggestion & watched it again.
The dad is practically invisible & the only pink is on that tiny flag & a small stripe on the top of the trailer.
Anonymous
Post 10/11/2018 11:31     Subject: Be careful biking with your family
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Road biking is so, so dangerous. I wish our roads were more bike-friendly, but they're just not.


They were biking on a bike trail. They were simply crossing a street, at pedestrian speed. They waited for traffic to stop and then entered crosswalk. They should have been pretty visible with bike and colored gear. Assume black suv was on phone.


The dad was in head to toe black.
Not very responsible.


Now you're not even allowed to wear black in broad daylight?

How about people driving black cars - is that irresponsible too?
Anonymous
Post 10/11/2018 11:31     Subject: Be careful biking with your family
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

NP here. The advice I have seen is to cross at a pedestrian pace (because that is what drivers will be looking for) which does not mean dismounting. It looks like the family here was riding across at a pedestrian pace (and indeed, its hard for a young child to exceed such pace).

And to look, yes, but that does not mean waiting till there is no car traffic anywhere. Once the walker or biker is in the crosswalk, the driver is expected to stop (in Va, to yield).


A comment on Greater Greater Washington provides one explanation for that PP's insistence that everybody advises to walk your bike across the crosswalk (despite not having yet produced even a single example of somebody providing this advice): namely, the old thinking was

1. Crosswalks are for people who are walking.
2. People on bikes are not walking and therefore do not belong in the crosswalk.
3. Therefore, if you are in a crosswalk with a bicycle, you should be walking it.

But that's not a safety reason, it's a legal reason. Furthermore, it's a legal reason that people are explicitly trying to change. See this bill, for example: http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/webmga/frmMain.aspx?pid=billpage&stab=01&id=sb0337&tab=subject3&ys=2017RS


Walk OR ride very slowly. Why is that so hard to understand? There is absolutely a safety issue with bikes in crosswalks - I posted like a kagillion links about it. I don't care if you want to fight with me on DCUM, but if you're unwilling to do the basic amount of self-educating about safe urban bike riding, PLEASE do not take your kids out biking!
Anonymous
Post 10/11/2018 11:30     Subject: Be careful biking with your family
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
The dad was in head to toe black.
Not very responsible.


The dad was pulling a bike trailer with a bright pink awning. In daylight. His clothing could not have been an issue.


Uh, watch it again... he was in a very shaded area in head to toe black, he completely blended into the background of the trees.

Due to that, the awning appeared to be sitting on the side of the road by itself, it could have been anything & not necessarily a trailer.

Anonymous
Post 10/11/2018 11:27     Subject: Be careful biking with your family

The car on the left had their turn signal on because they were turning right after the crosswalk. The SUV probably thought the car was stopped to wait to turn and didn’t see the kid in the crosswalk.

The video shows them proceeding straight after the crosswalk. And being in the left lane. And I don't see any cross street there to turn onto. It seems pretty clear to me they were stopped for the folks in the crosswalk. The SUV just decided to speed on obliviously.

Maybe. But having a poorly signed temporary crosswalk just in front of the actual intersection is a recipe for drivers not to focus it.


It may be a poor design.

But a simple thing to do as a driver, is, if you see another car STOPPED in a travel lane in the same direction you are going, assume there is a reason, and at least slow down and look.