jsteele wrote:

I'm sorry to say it, but your attitude will make White more popular rather than less. From the perspective of the people he represents, White apologized for his initial remark, but that wasn't enough. He reached out to the Jewish community to be educated, but that wasn't enough. He toured the Holocaust Museum, but that wasn't enough. Now he is being asked to reject the support of a group that is in his community doing real, tangible work. You are literally demanding that hungry people turn down food because you don't like who is feeding them. How do you think that is going to go over?

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looks like Jeff finally gets it

So much white liberal guilt he spent most of yesterday defending a bigoted black person

Wrong, I was one of the first posters here to say that White should resign. Yesterday, I was simply stating facts. As I said then, White should be criticized on the facts, not on exaggerations or falsehoods. Even ignorant conspiracy theorists deserve fair treatment.

Not a Jeff fan, but he's right on this point. It's clear that White is less anti-semitic and more ignorant. White states that Farrakhan is one of the only leader that really helps in Ward 8. Well, being that's the case, perhaps Jews should understand that the way to change hearts and minds is by rolling up their sleeves and pitching in. And I say this as a Jew. Remember too that 90% of the people in any 'bad neighborhood' are good people, and it's the 10% that ruin it for the rest.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can honestly say that I'm less upset by Trayon's White's comments/actions than by the repetitive attempts here to say that they "aren't that bad."

I actually don't care what happens with Trayon White as an individual. What I would like is recognition that anti-semitism among people of color is on the rise, with the cause of the Palestinians a convenient cover for those accusations. For American Jews, it increasingly feels like (mostly mild, "all Jews are like this") anti-semitism is ok on the left and the right. It's alarming.

When you combine it with the rise in real anti-Jewish hate crimes here and around the world, Jews aren't sure what to think. It certainly feels like Jews are the last group anyone wants to defend ...

I'm the same Jew who agreed with Jeff down thread. I want to point out that THIS is EXACTLY the broader point. Jews are starting to leave other countries in Europe due to the rising anti-semitism, and liberal Democrats seem either ignorant of it or OK with it

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with Ms. Godbergs article. Obviously in the US, most Jews are able to assimilate or more easily "pass" because of the mutli-cultural nature of the country.

However, that doesn't diminish that historically, many Jews have stood with African-Americans, Muslims (see the uproar over the travel ban in 2017 and you will see many Jewish orgs and Jewish lawyers working pro-bono to get through the issue and help those stranded at airports etc) and other groups against hate and prejudice.

To see some posted on this thread deny that history and bond is both sad, disappointing and abhorrent.

We are definitely in agreement with regard to the fact that it is true Jews have stood with and supported African-Americans and their causes, but one must take into consideration that it is not common knowledge for many people. One also has to take into consideration the fact that simply because some Jews sought to assist blacks and empower them in their struggle it doesn't negate the fact that some Jews sought out profit by exploiting blacks and further perpetuating their struggle. Allow me to direct your attention to another opinion piece, this one from famed author James Baldwin...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"When we were growing up in Harlem our demoralizing series of landlords were Jewish, and we hated them. We hated them because they were terrible landlords, and did not take care of the building. A coat of paint, a broken window, a stopped sink, a stopped toilet, a sagging floor, a broken ceiling, a dangerous stairwell, the question of garbage disposal, the question of heat and cold, of roaches and rats--all questions of life and death for the poor, and especially for those with children--we had to cope with all of these as best we could. Our parents were lashed to futureless jobs, in order to pay the outrageous rent. We knew that the landlord treated us this way only because we were colored, and he knew that we could not move out."

"The grocer was a Jew, and being in debt to him was very much like being in debt to the company store. The butcher was a Jew and, yes, we certainly paid more for bad cuts of meat than other New York citizens, and we very often carried insults home, along with the meat. We bought our clothes from a Jew and, sometimes, our secondhand shoes, and the pawnbroker was a Jew--perhaps we hated him most of all."

"Not all of these white people were cruel--on the contrary, I remember some who were certainly as thoughtful as the bleak circumstances allowed--but all of them were exploiting us, and that was why we hated them."

"The Jew's suffering is recognized as part of the moral history of the world and the Jew is recognized as a contributor to the world's history: this is not true for the blacks. Jewish history, whether or not one can say it is honored, is certainly known: the black history has been blasted, maligned and despised. The Jew is a white man, and when white men rise up against oppression, they are heroes: when black men rise, they have reverted to their native savagery. The uprising in the Warsaw ghetto was not described as a riot, nor were the participants maligned as hoodlums: the boys and girls in Watts and Harlem are thoroughly aware of this, and it certainly contributes to their attitude toward the Jews."

"It is true that many Jews use, shamelessly, the slaughter of the 6,000,000 by the Third Reich as proof that they cannot be bigots--or in the hope of not being held responsible for their bigotry. It is galling to be told by a Jew whom you know to be exploiting you that he cannot possibly be doing what you know he is doing because he is a Jew. It is bitter to watch the Jewish storekeeper locking up his store for the night, and going home. Going, with your money in his pocket, to a clean neighborhood, miles from you, which you will not be allowed to enter. Nor can it help the relationship between most Negroes and most Jews when part of this money is donated to civil rights. In the light of what is now known as the white backlash, this money can be looked on as conscience money merely, as money given to keep the Negro happy in his place, and out of white neighborhoods."

"One does not wish, in short, to be told by an American Jew that his suffering is as great as the American Negro's suffering. It isn't, and one knows that it isn't from the very tone in which he assures you that it is."

— James Baldwin - April 9, 1967, New York Times

https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/98/03/29/specials/baldwin-antisem.html?mcubz=3

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's because I am trying to show that there is awful Antisemtism among liberals, too. (This forum is overwhelmingly liberal and we see awful attacks and accusations about prejudice among conservatives.) Trying to deny it and diminish it, as is happening with the White case, is merely allowing it to fester. I try to root it out wherever I see it, and I think it is just as bad on both sides of the aisle, just in different forms.

And I still see that you are not willing to acknowledge that I am concerned by antisemitism and sickened by the display I've seen on this thread. I think your animosity for conservatives is driving YOUR interpretation of me.

And as far as the other Soros links? I don't follow him that much, but any discussion of him would be way off-topic, and I know you don't like that. Maybe a thread for another time.

The two bolded parts make my point. You are interested in showing that there is anti-Semitism among liberals, even if that means that you have to exaggerate or misstate the facts to show anti-Semitism where it does not clearly exist. But, when there is much more obvious anti-Semitism among conservatives, well, that can wait for another time.

I agree that liberals are more antisemetic than conservatives at this point in time. I see eveidence of it on a daily basis. This thread and many of your posts demonstrate this. No I am not going to tell you specifically what in your posts point to anti senetism. It is your overall tone and willingness to excuse others from it as well as the substances of your posts. I am not saying these things to attack you. I am saying it as an observation. You have a double standard when it comes to Jews and Israel and I am not the only one to notice it. Perhaps I too have a double standard when it comes to these types of issues, however, I am pointing it out to you so that you can think about all you have said to justify a blatant anti semite’s actions.

Right, I'm an anti-Semite. But, of course you can't provide any evidence of my anti-Semitism, you just think I am. Don't you see how awful it is to make such allegations based on nothing more than "I just think you are?" But, frankly, I don't care about your opinion. I will continue fighting anti-Semitism, racism, and bigotry at every opportunity. I will also stand up for Palestinian rights and against Israeli policies and actions that I find unacceptable. You can think whatever you want of me.

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looks like Jeff finally gets it

So much white liberal guilt he spent most of yesterday defending a bigoted black person

Wrong, I was one of the first posters here to say that White should resign. Yesterday, I was simply stating facts. As I said then, White should be criticized on the facts, not on exaggerations or falsehoods. Even ignorant conspiracy theorists deserve fair treatment.

Not a Jeff fan, but he's right on this point. It's clear that White is less anti-semitic and more ignorant. White states that Farrakhan is one of the only leader that really helps in Ward 8. Well, being that's the case, perhaps Jews should understand that the way to change hearts and minds is by rolling up their sleeves and pitching in. And I say this as a Jew. Remember too that 90% of the people in any 'bad neighborhood' are good people, and it's the 10% that ruin it for the rest.

Anonymous wrote:I can honestly say that I'm less upset by Trayon's White's comments/actions than by the repetitive attempts here to say that they "aren't that bad."

I actually don't care what happens with Trayon White as an individual. What I would like is recognition that anti-semitism among people of color is on the rise, with the cause of the Palestinians a convenient cover for those accusations. For American Jews, it increasingly feels like (mostly mild, "all Jews are like this") anti-semitism is ok on the left and the right. It's alarming.

When you combine it with the rise in real anti-Jewish hate crimes here and around the world, Jews aren't sure what to think. It certainly feels like Jews are the last group anyone wants to defend ...

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looks like Jeff finally gets it

So much white liberal guilt he spent most of yesterday defending a bigoted black person

Wrong, I was one of the first posters here to say that White should resign. Yesterday, I was simply stating facts. As I said then, White should be criticized on the facts, not on exaggerations or falsehoods. Even ignorant conspiracy theorists deserve fair treatment.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with Ms. Godbergs article. Obviously in the US, most Jews are able to assimilate or more easily "pass" because of the mutli-cultural nature of the country.

However, that doesn't diminish that historically, many Jews have stood with African-Americans, Muslims (see the uproar over the travel ban in 2017 and you will see many Jewish orgs and Jewish lawyers working pro-bono to get through the issue and help those stranded at airports etc) and other groups against hate and prejudice.

To see some posted on this thread deny that history and bond is both sad, disappointing and abhorrent.

Jesus H Christ !!! with or without Jews standing with African Americans ( whatever the hell thats supposed to mean ) it has nothing to do with Ms Goldberg poignant and unequivocally truthful assessment that there shouldn't be any comparison between what AAs have and continue to go through and what jews who have largely benefited from white supremacy have gone through . You could've simply stated that Ms Goldberg is right and yet you insist on pushing this narrative whereby we're to believe that Jews were doing some kind of favor to AAs and you don't think that's abhorrent and disappointing to say nothing of untruthful ?

You are denying history and that is sad for you and sad for anyone who thinks like you with respect to this issue.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with Ms. Godbergs article. Obviously in the US, most Jews are able to assimilate or more easily "pass" because of the mutli-cultural nature of the country.

However, that doesn't diminish that historically, many Jews have stood with African-Americans, Muslims (see the uproar over the travel ban in 2017 and you will see many Jewish orgs and Jewish lawyers working pro-bono to get through the issue and help those stranded at airports etc) and other groups against hate and prejudice.

To see some posted on this thread deny that history and bond is both sad, disappointing and abhorrent.

Jesus H Christ !!! with or without Jews standing with African Americans ( whatever the hell thats supposed to mean ) it has nothing to do with Ms Goldberg poignant and unequivocally truthful assessment that there shouldn't be any comparison between what AAs have and continue to go through and what jews who have largely benefited from white supremacy have gone through . You could've simply stated that Ms Goldberg is right and yet you insist on pushing this narrative whereby we're to believe that Jews were doing some kind of favor to AAs and you don't think that's abhorrent and disappointing to say nothing of untruthful ?

Anonymous wrote:I agree with Ms. Godbergs article. Obviously in the US, most Jews are able to assimilate or more easily "pass" because of the mutli-cultural nature of the country.

However, that doesn't diminish that historically, many Jews have stood with African-Americans, Muslims (see the uproar over the travel ban in 2017 and you will see many Jewish orgs and Jewish lawyers working pro-bono to get through the issue and help those stranded at airports etc) and other groups against hate and prejudice.

To see some posted on this thread deny that history and bond is both sad, disappointing and abhorrent.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
+ 1 And that is the "soft" form of antisemtism I'm talking about again. Diminishing antisemtism by downplaying the horrors of not only the Holocaust but the 3,000 years of Jewish persecution, murders, slavery, you name it, and chalking up Jews' response to antisemtitsm as a persecution complex. Can you imagine if Jews said that blacks need to stop with their persecution complex? It would rightly be called racist.

And I still haven't heard the PP acknowledge my point how Jews were often the only ones in 1940s NYC who were willing to hire blacks. All this venom against a people who tried - and did! - help black people.

Even by 1940s NYC was huge , this idea that they were the only ones willing to hire AAs is once again an exxagerated claim . Smh

DP, but are you saying that Jews DIDN'T hire African-Americans? Of course there were other people who hired African-Americans. No one us suggesting that ONLY Jews did that. But it was certainly disproportionate.

Thank you for backing me up. This one antisemtitc PP I've been conversing with is getting on my nerves, as she is adamant not to acknowledge the efforts Jews made on blacks' behalf. In fact, she is downright resentful of it. What's that saying.....no good deed goes unpunished? I'm done with her.

Efforts Jews made on blacks behalf ?? Your existence is owed in part to the efforts those young black men enlisted in a segregated army made on your behalf when it came time to take your relatives out of the Nazi ovens . Not a whole lot of AAs ( if any)are expecting anything in return like you

The only thing expected in return is to not be treated with anti-semtism. No one is asking for a medal, or thanks, but it would be nice to not be subjugated as a people to the same thing that African-Americans have been subjugated to in terms of gross misperceptions and propogating racist myths.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's because I am trying to show that there is awful Antisemtism among liberals, too. (This forum is overwhelmingly liberal and we see awful attacks and accusations about prejudice among conservatives.) Trying to deny it and diminish it, as is happening with the White case, is merely allowing it to fester. I try to root it out wherever I see it, and I think it is just as bad on both sides of the aisle, just in different forms.

And I still see that you are not willing to acknowledge that I am concerned by antisemitism and sickened by the display I've seen on this thread. I think your animosity for conservatives is driving YOUR interpretation of me.

And as far as the other Soros links? I don't follow him that much, but any discussion of him would be way off-topic, and I know you don't like that. Maybe a thread for another time.

The two bolded parts make my point. You are interested in showing that there is anti-Semitism among liberals, even if that means that you have to exaggerate or misstate the facts to show anti-Semitism where it does not clearly exist. But, when there is much more obvious anti-Semitism among conservatives, well, that can wait for another time.

I agree that liberals are more antisemetic than conservatives at this point in time. I see eveidence of it on a daily basis. This thread and many of your posts demonstrate this. No I am not going to tell you specifically what in your posts point to anti senetism. It is your overall tone and willingness to excuse others from it as well as the substances of your posts. I am not saying these things to attack you. I am saying it as an observation. You have a double standard when it comes to Jews and Israel and I am not the only one to notice it. Perhaps I too have a double standard when it comes to these types of issues, however, I am pointing it out to you so that you can think about all you have said to justify a blatant anti semite’s actions.

Thank you! I am the Jewish (conservative) poster whom Jeff is coming down hard on, precisely because the thread exposes the degree if antisemttism among liberals. (And when it is pointed out, we are accused of lying or exaggerating.) The real anger is that some of us (and again, thank you) are trying to ferret out the antisemtism on the liberal side, since this forum does it so well on the conservative side.

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's because I am trying to show that there is awful Antisemtism among liberals, too. (This forum is overwhelmingly liberal and we see awful attacks and accusations about prejudice among conservatives.) Trying to deny it and diminish it, as is happening with the White case, is merely allowing it to fester. I try to root it out wherever I see it, and I think it is just as bad on both sides of the aisle, just in different forms.

And I still see that you are not willing to acknowledge that I am concerned by antisemitism and sickened by the display I've seen on this thread. I think your animosity for conservatives is driving YOUR interpretation of me.

And as far as the other Soros links? I don't follow him that much, but any discussion of him would be way off-topic, and I know you don't like that. Maybe a thread for another time.

The two bolded parts make my point. You are interested in showing that there is anti-Semitism among liberals, even if that means that you have to exaggerate or misstate the facts to show anti-Semitism where it does not clearly exist. But, when there is much more obvious anti-Semitism among conservatives, well, that can wait for another time.

I agree that liberals are more antisemetic than conservatives at this point in time. I see eveidence of it on a daily basis. This thread and many of your posts demonstrate this. No I am not going to tell you specifically what in your posts point to anti senetism. It is your overall tone and willingness to excuse others from it as well as the substances of your posts. I am not saying these things to attack you. I am saying it as an observation. You have a double standard when it comes to Jews and Israel and I am not the only one to notice it. Perhaps I too have a double standard when it comes to these types of issues, however, I am pointing it out to you so that you can think about all you have said to justify a blatant anti semite’s actions.

Anonymous wrote:I agree with Ms. Godbergs article. Obviously in the US, most Jews are able to assimilate or more easily "pass" because of the mutli-cultural nature of the country.

However, that doesn't diminish that historically, many Jews have stood with African-Americans, Muslims (see the uproar over the travel ban in 2017 and you will see many Jewish orgs and Jewish lawyers working pro-bono to get through the issue and help those stranded at airports etc) and other groups against hate and prejudice.

To see some posted on this thread deny that history and bond is both sad, disappointing and abhorrent.