Anonymous
04/18/2016 04:01
Subject: Re:2016 AAP admissions Thread
I have gone through the entire thread to see if any of it can be helpful to me.
Our situation does not look hopeful but I am trying to appeal because I think that my child is very bright (not gifted in a typical sense) and his classroom behavior and results point to the fact that he needs to be challenged. That is my sole purpose in pursuing AAP process. in short, I'd rather have him try and fail at acquiring new knowledge, fall down, dust it off and try again than do rote memorization and worksheets at nauseum in his current classroom set up. I do not care about labels. I know my child is exceptional. EVERY child is. Mine would benefit from the AAP environment. He is an exceptional numerical thinker and analyzes every single situation in numbers. He also has great vocabulary and likes learning new words. He like analogies. But he stutters and I wonder if that is making his school 'profile' him in a particular way.
I also believe that the AAP program must be conditioned to a certain degree by what the local level IV capacity is and what the center capacity is. I am not making any accusations here - it has to do with physical limitations of a particular school. No one can convince me that if, hypothetically, 50 students across my child's school's 2nd grade applied to AAP and all 50 would be found eligible on all scores (GBRS, CogAT, NNAT, holistic package from parents, etc) but there were those who were just a tad more advanced, that there would be no cut-off, whatever that school determined its OWN cut-off to be.
I do want to state the facts as well and hope that someone can enlighten me as to what would be helpful do to in our case.
NNAT - 104 I know it is average or slightly above average
CogAT - 111 the same comment as above
GBRS - 6 we are truly flabbergasted by this number. Hardly any positive commentary is provided (so to an earlier poster who said "All GBRS commentary is positive", this is clearly not true)
I don't think I have seen GBRS as low as ours, in these and all past forums I have combed through. So I am curious to hear your opinions.
I am scheduled to have my child tested with the WSIC (IV or V? I do not know) at GMU. I was told the score would be known before the appeals deadline so I am not planning to frantically look for an independently licensed psychologist to get the results instantaneously. I am not pursuing WSIC to prove my school wrong. My child did not do well on CogAT because he is a visual person and I understand CogAT test instructions are done verbally without being repeated. I am pursuing WSIC to determine whether my child has solid knowledge and aptitude to function in a fast-paced world with lots of demands placed on kids. His grade reports for the most part have 4s and a few 3s. He consistently brings home school work graded at 4. Why is GBRS so low? He does not jump in front of his teacher shouting answers. He takes time to ponder issues, look at everything from different angles and asks me inquisitive questions. I KNOW he wants to learn more. His teacher seemingly believes he is fine in his littler corner, doing rote memorization (she loves that style of teaching and learning and admitted it to me during several teacher-parent conferences). I know my child needs more. I'd rather have him be at the bottom of the AAP class due novelty of the concepts and the ways students are asked to approach and solve them, then near the top of his Gen Ed classes. This way, in the Gen Ed classes, he is conditioned to be complacent.
What do you think our chances of an appeal are? What would you think his WSIC needs to be? Is it worth my time to contact the school screening file committee (not sure if this is the class teacher, AART teacher, principal?) and challenge the content of the screening file which I do have at my disposal. How to prepare the appeals package so it tells the central committee that my child deserves to be in the AAP class because he is an exceptional child, exceptional in his own ways. What to put an emphasis on in the appeals package? I assume that since my school thinks so low of my child that involving them in the appeals file is pointless? I did submit a parent questionnaire and recommendation letter the first time around. Is it worth arguing this point again? New samples and if so, of what type? original writing? Math critical thinking? Artsy projects?
Thank you for all your thoughts and input.
Our situation does not look hopeful but I am trying to appeal because I think that my child is very bright (not gifted in a typical sense) and his classroom behavior and results point to the fact that he needs to be challenged. That is my sole purpose in pursuing AAP process. in short, I'd rather have him try and fail at acquiring new knowledge, fall down, dust it off and try again than do rote memorization and worksheets at nauseum in his current classroom set up. I do not care about labels. I know my child is exceptional. EVERY child is. Mine would benefit from the AAP environment. He is an exceptional numerical thinker and analyzes every single situation in numbers. He also has great vocabulary and likes learning new words. He like analogies. But he stutters and I wonder if that is making his school 'profile' him in a particular way.
I also believe that the AAP program must be conditioned to a certain degree by what the local level IV capacity is and what the center capacity is. I am not making any accusations here - it has to do with physical limitations of a particular school. No one can convince me that if, hypothetically, 50 students across my child's school's 2nd grade applied to AAP and all 50 would be found eligible on all scores (GBRS, CogAT, NNAT, holistic package from parents, etc) but there were those who were just a tad more advanced, that there would be no cut-off, whatever that school determined its OWN cut-off to be.
I do want to state the facts as well and hope that someone can enlighten me as to what would be helpful do to in our case.
NNAT - 104 I know it is average or slightly above average
CogAT - 111 the same comment as above
GBRS - 6 we are truly flabbergasted by this number. Hardly any positive commentary is provided (so to an earlier poster who said "All GBRS commentary is positive", this is clearly not true)
I don't think I have seen GBRS as low as ours, in these and all past forums I have combed through. So I am curious to hear your opinions.
I am scheduled to have my child tested with the WSIC (IV or V? I do not know) at GMU. I was told the score would be known before the appeals deadline so I am not planning to frantically look for an independently licensed psychologist to get the results instantaneously. I am not pursuing WSIC to prove my school wrong. My child did not do well on CogAT because he is a visual person and I understand CogAT test instructions are done verbally without being repeated. I am pursuing WSIC to determine whether my child has solid knowledge and aptitude to function in a fast-paced world with lots of demands placed on kids. His grade reports for the most part have 4s and a few 3s. He consistently brings home school work graded at 4. Why is GBRS so low? He does not jump in front of his teacher shouting answers. He takes time to ponder issues, look at everything from different angles and asks me inquisitive questions. I KNOW he wants to learn more. His teacher seemingly believes he is fine in his littler corner, doing rote memorization (she loves that style of teaching and learning and admitted it to me during several teacher-parent conferences). I know my child needs more. I'd rather have him be at the bottom of the AAP class due novelty of the concepts and the ways students are asked to approach and solve them, then near the top of his Gen Ed classes. This way, in the Gen Ed classes, he is conditioned to be complacent.
What do you think our chances of an appeal are? What would you think his WSIC needs to be? Is it worth my time to contact the school screening file committee (not sure if this is the class teacher, AART teacher, principal?) and challenge the content of the screening file which I do have at my disposal. How to prepare the appeals package so it tells the central committee that my child deserves to be in the AAP class because he is an exceptional child, exceptional in his own ways. What to put an emphasis on in the appeals package? I assume that since my school thinks so low of my child that involving them in the appeals file is pointless? I did submit a parent questionnaire and recommendation letter the first time around. Is it worth arguing this point again? New samples and if so, of what type? original writing? Math critical thinking? Artsy projects?
Thank you for all your thoughts and input.
Anonymous
04/18/2016 01:43
Subject: 2016 AAP admissions Thread
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:AAP centers need to fill the classes and FCPS does not want to bus students far. The committee probably looks at students in the pool school by school and fill the quota. If there are a lot of students in the pool going to one particular center then the committee becomes more selective.
Seems to make sense- any hard evidence on this?
There is no hard evidence.
She just made up that statement.
Anonymous
04/17/2016 22:50
Subject: 2016 AAP admissions Thread
Anonymous wrote:AAP centers need to fill the classes and FCPS does not want to bus students far. The committee probably looks at students in the pool school by school and fill the quota. If there are a lot of students in the pool going to one particular center then the committee becomes more selective.
Seems to make sense- any hard evidence on this?
Anonymous
04/17/2016 22:49
Subject: Re:2016 AAP admissions Thread
Anonymous wrote:The person who "works in education" sounds like a total idiot.
Best practices for gifted identification require a holistic review and definitely to a single score criterion.
In fact, the program review done a few years ago absolutely praised FCPS for its thorough and fair identification process.
Which review was this and who conducted it?
Anonymous
04/17/2016 19:54
Subject: 2016 AAP admissions Thread
Anonymous wrote:Interesting how some people have mentioned a high COGAT *seemed* to be a big influencer. I have family in NYC, and their GT program uses the NNAT & the verbal portion of the OLSAT for their qualifying tests.
Yes, they do, but their admissions process is wholly different from ours.
All students who get over a certain score are put into a lottery for the G/T programs. No recommendations, no GBRS or evaluation. In that instance, really, it doesn't matter which test is used. The goal is to develop a pool for a lottery, not use the score as a basis for creating an entire file for an application.
By the way, in 2013 40% of students who took the test scored about 90%. 21% scored above 97%. There are seats for only a small percentage of those kids.
Anonymous
04/17/2016 19:50
Subject: Re:2016 AAP admissions Thread
So I guess we stoppe posting scores in this thread
Anonymous
04/17/2016 19:49
Subject: 2016 AAP admissions Thread
AAP centers need to fill the classes and FCPS does not want to bus students far. The committee probably looks at students in the pool school by school and fill the quota. If there are a lot of students in the pool going to one particular center then the committee becomes more selective.
Anonymous
04/17/2016 19:24
Subject: Re:2016 AAP admissions Thread
Anonymous wrote:The person who "works in education" sounds like a total idiot.
Best practices for gifted identification require a holistic review and definitely to a single score criterion.
In fact, the program review done a few years ago absolutely praised FCPS for its thorough and fair identification process.
*not
Anonymous
04/17/2016 19:03
Subject: Re:2016 AAP admissions Thread
Anonymous wrote:The person who "works in education" sounds like a total idiot.
Best practices for gifted identification require a holistic review and definitely to a single score criterion.
In fact, the program review done a few years ago absolutely praised FCPS for its thorough and fair identification process.
And it is so silly to use annecdotal information from an anonymous internet message board as a basis for "standing" tonsue fcps for not providing equal access to ones snowflake.
Anonymous
04/17/2016 18:55
Subject: Re:2016 AAP admissions Thread
The person who "works in education" sounds like a total idiot.
Best practices for gifted identification require a holistic review and definitely to a single score criterion.
In fact, the program review done a few years ago absolutely praised FCPS for its thorough and fair identification process.
Best practices for gifted identification require a holistic review and definitely to a single score criterion.
In fact, the program review done a few years ago absolutely praised FCPS for its thorough and fair identification process.
Anonymous
04/17/2016 18:42
Subject: 2016 AAP admissions Thread
Anonymous wrote:Interesting how some people have mentioned a high COGAT *seemed* to be a big influencer. I have family in NYC, and their GT program uses the NNAT & the verbal portion of the OLSAT for their qualifying tests.
Public schools in Virginia must follow the VA Department of Education regulations and cannot use only testing for identification purposes.
Anonymous
04/17/2016 17:28
Subject: 2016 AAP admissions Thread
Interesting how some people have mentioned a high COGAT *seemed* to be a big influencer. I have family in NYC, and their GT program uses the NNAT & the verbal portion of the OLSAT for their qualifying tests.
Anonymous
04/17/2016 17:15
Subject: 2016 AAP admissions Thread
Anonymous wrote:High cogat and high gbrs are important for aap
I am the one with the child with the 111 nnat and non quant cogat 111 but still got in. She does not have the "lego gene" (high nnat) but she is a deep thinker. She must have gotten in on the 127 verbal cogat and I am guessing a high gbrs. I did a minimal application, knowing she would do well in gen ed or aap.
AAP is about lots of reading and writing.
Thanks for the info. I think the question on this thread was a private schooler with a 134 wisc and 12 GBRS didn't get in and the logic behind why not.
How does your daughter like AAP? Making a difference orbits it just accelerated as they say on the FCPS site?
Anonymous
04/17/2016 17:14
Subject: Re:2016 AAP admissions Thread
Right - because since you work in education, you should be able to make definitive conclusions about other peoples' kids if they are gifted or not. You have no clue - you don't know what the file even looks like. Who is the know it all again?
Clearly not you, because you didn't even comprehend what I wrote.
I did not say I thought any child had been wrongly excluded. I only wrote that the parents would have standing and basis to sue if the parents thought the child had been, based on the principle of equal access. I did not say they would win the action.
No, go away. You are embarrassing yourself.
Anonymous
04/17/2016 17:05
Subject: 2016 AAP admissions Thread
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You don't sue because you got your feelings hurt because a committeedid not view your kid to be as smart as you think they are.
How silly is that?
The pp with the WISC didn't post the part about suing, I did. I think you sue when the state requires gifted education and the process by which this is done isn't transparent, and also doesn't seem to be accomplishing the intended goal. AAP is intended to meet the state's requirement for gifted education, but it appears, based on scores posted on this thread and based on what friends have told me about their kids' scores, that many smart kids with scores in the 120s are getting in while kids in the gifted range above 130 aren't, in many cases. That seems contrary to the purpose of the VA requirements. It's not about hurt feelings, it's about holding FCPS to it's legal obligation to gifted kids. If FCPS wants to have a program for bright kids, great, but is has a legal requirement to provide services to gifted kids and I'm not sue FCPS isn't losing sight of that in its quest to get highly educated parents (and their money) to live and stay in Fairfax County.
Oh good grief. You are seriously basing your opinions on the score on this board plus anecdotal evidence? Are you kidding me? Will you throw a hissy fit when your kid doesn't get into their college of choice because you only know their SAT scores and essays of your own kid? You are ridiculous.
No, because colleges have no legal obligation that they are required to fulfill in their admissions process. That's different than FCPS, which has a state mandate to provide services to gifted kids.
So you are going to sue based on a single test score, when Level IV Center eligibility is NOT determined by a single test score? #logicleap
FCPS has opened itself up to the lawsuit risk by asserting the district can tell who is "gifted" via a subjective determination. Other school districts use strict score cut offs or lottery systems for those who meet certain criteria, for the simple purpose of avoiding litigation. FCPS is uniquely vulnerable because they offer AAP admission to all who qualify, and are not capacity constrained.
Public schools have the legal obligation to provide EQUAL ACCESS. That is the different between public schools and college admissions.
RE-posting for correction.
PP: I'm sure you think that you're the first one to ever think about suing the county because your child was denied level 4 services. But, you do realize that there are other levels of AAP, don't you? Was your child in pool? Then, s/he will be likely eligible for part-time services (level 3) at your school. FCPS is not denying you access. Oh, and there IS an appeal process. Did I mention that in middle school, there is also "honors" that is open to ALL students?
Save the assumptions. I wrote this and I'm not thinking of suing. I'm simply stating the facts. You're welcome to google and confirm the legal issues around this topic, which crops up around the country.
Sooo...your child doesn't get in, and the first thing you do is google the legal issues. Very telling.
I'm the person who posted the legal info, and my child is in AAP. And I didn't have to google the info; I work in education.
See what happens when you think you know it all? You're wrong on all counts.
Right - because since you work in education, you should be able to make definitive conclusions about other peoples' kids if they are gifted or not. You have no clue - you don't know what the file even looks like. Who is the know it all again?
What the hell is wrong with you? He/she never claimed to be able to make definite conclusions. Only that the committee makes subjective decisions which may leave it open to legal action.