Anonymous wrote:I don't want Jeff outing that poster, or any poster, just because another poster doesn't believe him. Why would you seriously want Jeff to out a poster on your request?

Anonymous wrote:Read Dylann Roof's manifesto and then read up on the CCC and you will find it all lines up perfectly. Dylann Roof wasn't so much "a lone wolf having a psychotic break" as he was deeply indoctrinated in the CCC's genocidal, white supremacist rhetoric.

Anonymous wrote:Read Dylann Roof's manifesto and then read up on the CCC and you will find it all lines up perfectly. Dylann Roof wasn't so much "a lone wolf having a psychotic break" as he was deeply indoctrinated in the CCC's genocidal, white supremacist rhetoric.

jsteele wrote:Walmart joins the "pro government busybodies":

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/23/walmart-removes-confederate-flag-merchandise-from-stores

"Walmart Stores, the world’s largest retailer, says it has removed all products bearing the Confederate flag from its stores."

Council of Conservative Citizens

Founded: 1985
Location: St. Louis, MO
Profiled Leadership: Gordon Baum
Ideology: White Nationalist
The Council of Conservative Citizens (CCC) is the modern reincarnation of the old White Citizens Councils, which were formed in the 1950s and 1960s to battle school desegregation in the South. Among other things, its Statement of Principles says that it “oppose[s] all efforts to mix the races of mankind.” Created in 1985 from the mailing lists of its predecessor organization, the CCC, which initially tried to project a "mainstream" image, has evolved into a crudely white supremacist group whose website has run pictures comparing the late pop singer Michael Jackson to an ape and referred to black people as "a retrograde species of humanity." The group's newspaper, Citizens Informer, regularly publishes articles condemning "race mixing," decrying the evils of illegal immigration, and lamenting the decline of white, European civilization. Gordon Baum, the group’s founder, died in March of 2015.

In Its Own Words

"God is the author of racism. God is the One who divided mankind into different types. ... Mixing the races is rebelliousness against God."
— Council of Conservative Citizens website, 2001

"We believe the United States is a European country and that Americans are part of the European people. … We therefore oppose the massive immigration of non-European and non-Western peoples into the United States that threatens to transform our nation into a non-European majority in our lifetime. We believe that illegal immigration must be stopped, if necessary by military force and placing troops on our national borders; that illegal aliens must be returned to their own countries; and that legal immigration must be severely restricted or halted through appropriate changes in our laws and policies. We also oppose all efforts to mix the races of mankind, to promote non-white races over the European-American people through so-called ‘affirmative action' and similar measures, to destroy or denigrate the European-American heritage, including the heritage of the Southern people, and to force the integration of the races."
—Statement of Principles, Citizens Informer, 2007

"Controlling immigration is about the security of this republic [terrorists illegally crossing the borders] and making sure countries like Mexico stop dumping their murderers, rapists, those carrying AIDS and other communicable diseases and gang members on America's door step."
—Devvy Kidd, Citizens Informer, 2006

Background
Founded in 1985 by Gordon Baum, a worker's compensation attorney and longtime racist activist, the Council of Conservative Citizens (CCC) rose from the ashes of the Citizens Councils of America (CCA), commonly called "White Citizens Councils," a coalition of white-supremacist groups and individuals formed throughout the South to defend school segregation after the Supreme Court outlawed the policy in 1954 in Brown vs. Board of Education.

Unlike the KKK, the CCA groups had a veneer of civic respectability, inspiring future Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall to refer to it as the "uptown Klan." While there were plenty of bare-knuckle racists attracted to the councils' anti-integration slogan, "Never!," the members also included bankers, merchants, judges, newspaper editors and politicians — folks given more to wearing suits and ties than hoods and robes. During the White Citizens Councils' heyday, the groups claimed more than 1 million members. Although they weren't immune to violence — Byron De La Beckwith, who murdered civil-rights leader Medgar Evers in 1963, was a member — the councils generally used their political and financial pull to offset the effects of "forced integration."

Once the segregation battle was lost, the air went out of the White Citizens Councils. The councils steadily lost members throughout the 1970s and 1980s. Sensing the need for a new direction, Baum, formerly the CCA's Midwest field director, called together a group of 30 white men, including former Georgia Gov. Lester Maddox and future Louisiana Congressman John Rarick, for a meeting in Atlanta in 1985. Together, they cooked up a successor organization: the Council of Conservative Citizens.

Like the original White Citizens Councils, the CCC is made up of local chapters, some of which are active in civic affairs beyond the national group's racist agenda. And until the 2000s, some of the group's "uptown" attitude remained, as meetings resembled Rotary Club events more than Klan outings and regularly featured politicians as keynote speakers.

Most Americans learned of the CCC in late 1998, when a scandal erupted over prominent Southern politicians' ties to the brazenly racist group. After it was revealed that former Congressman Bob Barr (R-Ga.) gave the keynote speech at the CCC's 1998 national convention and that then-Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott (R-Miss.) had spoken to the group five times, both claimed they knew nothing about the CCC. However, an Intelligence Report investigation, publicized by national television and newspaper reports, made clear what the CCC really was: a hate group that routinely denigrated blacks as "genetically inferior," complained about "Jewish power brokers," called LGBT people "perverted sodomites," accused immigrants of turning America into a "slimy brown mass of glop," and named Lester Maddox, the now-deceased, ax handle-wielding, arch-segregationist former governor of Georgia, "Patriot of the Century."

As evidence of widespread association between Southern GOP officeholders and the CCC mounted, Republican National Committee Chairman Jim Nicholson took the unusual step in 1998 of asking party members to resign from the group because of its racist views. A resolution moved through the U.S. Congress "condemning the racism and bigotry espoused by the Council of Conservative Citizens," although it ultimately failed. (Congress had earlier condemned the black supremacist Nation of Islam in a similar manner, but failed to do the same with the CCC. Republican Party leaders, likely embarrassed by Lott's very public connection to the CCC, managed to defeat the censure effort.)

But six years later, many Southern lawmakers were still pandering to and meeting with the CCC — and still pleading ignorance. According to a 2004 Intelligence Report review of the Citizens Informer, no fewer than 38 federal, state and local elected officials had attended CCC events between 2000 and 2004, most of them giving speeches to local chapters of the hate group.

Since the 1998/1999 scandal stripped much of the remaining varnish off the CCC's mainstream pretensions, the extremist views expressed on its website and in its newspaper have become increasingly crude. "What do you call ... four blacks, three Hispanics, three Russian Jews, and one white guy?" the CCC home page asked in 2003. "The FBI's Most Wanted List!" Another day, the home page ran photos of accused Beltway snipers John Muhammad and John Malvo, 9/11 conspirator Zacharias Moussaoui and shoe-bomber Richard Reed. "Notice a Pattern Here?" asked a caption underneath the four photos. "Is the face of death black after all?" In 2002, the Web site featured a photo of Daniel Pearl, the "Jewish Wall Street Journal reporter" who had just been decapitated by Islamic terrorists. In the photo, Pearl was shown with his "mixed-race wife, Marianne." The headline above the couple's picture was stunning even for the CCC: "Death by Multiculturalism?"

The danger of "race-mixing" has been a consistent theme for the group since the days of the White Citizens Councils. "God is the author of racism," said one story on the CCC's website in 2001. "God is the One who divided mankind into different types. ... Mixing the races is rebelliousness against God." After the NAACP declared its boycott of South Carolina in 1999 because the state continued to fly the Confederate battle flag over its Capitol dome, the CCC distributed a mock advertisement proclaiming, "South Carolina Now Has Whiter Beaches!" The Citizens Informer item urged whites to vacation in South Carolina and "enjoy a civil liberty that has been denied to them for many years at hotels, restaurants and beaches: the freedom to associate with just one's own people."

Along with theological arguments, the Citizens Informer has published countless stories detailing "scientific" evidence for white people's inherent superiority. Writing about Brown vs. Board of Education in 2004, contributor Michael Polignano noted that many commentators were using the 50th anniversary of the Supreme Court ruling striking down public school segregation to talk about "how far America still falls short of racial equality." According to Polignano, that lack of progress "should surprise no one, because racial inequality is genetic and cannot be changed by social programs. ... Blacks are on average probably less intelligent than Whites and more aggressive, impulsive and prone to psychopathologies." To prove this point, a 2005 article in the Citizens Informer written in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina described "[a]ccounts of little children — girls and boys —being gang raped, rescue vans and copters being repeatedly fired upon by mobs of violent blacks, anarchy, chaos, confusion, looting even by black police officers."

More recently, the CCC has focused very heavily on battling non-white immigration. The group jumped quite early on the "threat" it perceived was posed by immigration, holding a rally against immigration in Cullman, Ala., in 1998 that featured major nativist hate group leaders Barbara Coe and Glenn Spencer, both of whom worked to pass the punishing California anti-immigrant Proposition 187 (the rally was also attended by an unrobed Klan leader and a top official of the Federation for American Immigration Reform). The CCC has held rallies nearly every year since then against immigration and the topic is addressed regularly at the CCC's biannual conferences, which have included as participants CCC leaders and prominent racists including Jared Taylor, editor of the anti-black and anti-Latino race science newsletter American Renaissance, and Don Black, founder of the first hate site on the web, Stormfront.org.

CCC meetings have rarely featured politicians as speakers since the 2004 Intelligence Report exposé that exposed the fact that dozens of GOP politicians (and one Democrat) had been speaking at the group's events despite GOP chief Jim Nicholson's warnings in 1998. But a few have continued to associate with the CCC. In 2005, George Wallace Jr., the son of the late segregationist Alabama governor who was then an Alabama Public Service commissioner, spoke at the group's summer conference. In June 2008, another Alabama politician, state Sen. Charles Bishop (R-Jasper), addressed the group. Bishop's speech appealed to the assembled CCC crowd, particularly when he denounced the idea that Southern states should apologize for having sanctioned slavery. Bishop said that "atonement equals reparations" — meaning that apologies would surely be greeted by demands for financial payback by black Americans. Bishop received a standing ovation from the audience and he and his wife posed for pictures with members afterwards.

And in 2009 Republican Mississippi State Sen. Lydia Chassaniol spoke to the group. She gave a rabble-rousing speech on "Cultural Heritage in Mississippi." In a brief history of the state since 1540, Chassaniol complained that the U.S. was in decline, as evidenced by tributes to Michael Jackson, a "pedophile who's being celebrated." She indicated that the government wants to "take from those who have and give to those who don't want to work for it." And she worried that the 2010 national census might hand over government "to the radical left." Chassaniol confirmed to the Southern Poverty Law Center that she is a member of the CCC, which she described as a "conservative organization."

A June 2011 barbeque held in Tennessee showcased another set of unsavory relationships maintained by the CCC. According to postings on website of the CCC’s Tennessee chapter, members of Volksfront and Blood and Honour, two notorious and violent racist skinhead groups, joined CCC members to network and discuss “ideas and plans to make a positive impact on our regions.” The then-head of the CCC, Gordon Baum, referred to the meeting as a “no-no” after stating that the chapter was not supposed to meet with “costumed Nazis.”

On April 7, 2013, Leonard R. Wilson of Jasper, Alabama, died. He was a charter member of the CCC, as well as the organization’s national secretary and the Alabama state coordinator. He earned the nickname of "Flagpole" Wilson by climbing a flagpole during 1956 anti-integration riots at the University of Alabama to shout, "Keep 'Bama white!"

A few months later, at the organization’s 2013 annual conference in Winston-Salem, N.C., Bill Lord addressed a crowd of around 75 attendees, imploring them to think locally and “get you some bigots together and take some organizations over.” Lord, who was then the chairman of the Carroll County Democratic Party in Mississippi, was referring to positions such as the school board. He then went on to refer to Greenwood, Miss., as “the Congo” because of its large black population. The gathering only went further sideways from there, with Keith Alexander of the “Political Cesspool,” a racist and anti-Semitic far-right radio program, decrying Jewish political power and influence before stating, “The only people who can be trusted to be in charge are white people.” Another attendee, John Shudlick, five-time mayor of Ocean Ridge, Fla., encouraged the crowd to use critical thinking in the struggle for the country’s soul. According to Shudlick, the “six million figure [Jews killed in the holocaust] is a dirty filthy lie.”

In November of the same year, the CCC and the neo-Confederate League of the South held their first joint protest together against the removal of a statue of Tom Watson, an infamous racist and anti-Semite known for playing a key role in instigating the lynching of Leo Frank in 1915, from the steps of the Georgia state Capitol. The two groups’ membership rolls overlap a good deal; however, this event was demonstrative of the CCC’s longstanding strategy, focused on small, local rallies, being adopted by other hate groups.

Gordon Baum, the CCC’s founder and longtime leader, died at the age of 74 in early March 2015, leaving the future of the CCC uncertain. However, Baum’s death did little to slow down the activities of several of the group’s board members. Just weeks later, Jared Taylor and Sam Dickson, both well-known racist activists, appeared as speakers at the Russian Conservative Forum in St. Petersburg, Russia, alongside some of Europe’s most extreme, right-wing fringe.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guys: Note that the PP actually defended roof's manifesto. When called out on that, he deflected. PP "gets" roof. This isn't about a flag or politics and it isn't about racism for PP. He is genunely emotionally disturbed. Only an emotionally disturbed person would use a defense of the manifesto of a mass killer as a pretext for supporting flying of a racist symbol. PP believes roof was justified. Most racists.don't kill people and most racists wouldn't bother participating in a discussion like this. Only a severely emotionally disturbed person who sympathizes with roof because of a shared delusional world outlook would in the way PP has. He also pretended to be a "jewish girl."

I am PP. You are jumping to conclusions. If you want to understand why Roof did what he did, it's probably a good idea to listen to his own words. And it would be wise for the media to do the same and see how they can affect those who are mentally imbalanced. It's up to all of us to be good stewards in word and action.

Pretending to be a Jewish girl? Um, no. That's who I am. But carry on.

Simply saying "he was mentally unstable" and declaring case closed and walking away is intellectually dishonest.

Mentally unstable, why not then attack people because he thought they were Alien mind stealers or possessed by Satan or something similarly insane and bizarre?

No, this attack had a lot more specificity, detail and focus to it.

Yes, he was mentally unstable, but the ideas in his head did not come from nowhere. They did not come out of a vacuum. Dylann Roof's manifesto was under the moniker "The Last Rhodesian". He appears in some pictures wearing a jacket with the flags of Apartheid South Africa and Rhodesia. Those are also symbols in addition to the Confederate flag which are closely associated with the white supremacy movement. Yet, he is only 21, British Rhodesia ceased to exist long before he was born - its not as though he would have had some other incidental connection. Likewise, South African Apartheid ended before he was born. He had to have been taught about those, by someone. Also, you don't simply stumble across Rhodesian flag patches at your local five and dime, your Wal-mart or elsewhere, that would have had to have been an item that someone either gave to him or which he ordered specially from someone who deals in symbols that most others selling similar articles would not touch with a ten foot pole. There are so very, very many indications that Dylann Roof was in contact with other white supremacists, that he was studying white supremacy and feeding on and being enabled and empowered by the racist sentiments of others. Yes, he was mentally unstable, but there is a whole lot more to the story which still needs to be investigated.

Frankly, I think police should investigate everyone whom Dylann Roof was in contact with, to find out which others were espousing similar themes and embracing similar ideologies of white supremacy, to prosecute them alongside Roof as accomplices to the murders, because they too had a hand in this.

And none of what you just said logically relates to murdering 9 people. So it's not intellectually dishonest at all. Charles Manson had his reasons to. So did the unibomber. So did McVeigh. You are mistaking the seeming internal logical consistency closed loop quality of a schizophrenic delusion for an externally verifiable I.e. sane reasoning process. The manifesto only includes that which the crazy person can weave into the pattern of the delusion.

The vast majority of racist, Rhodesians, and flag flyers don't murder nine people in a church. None of those things or issues caused roof to murder. That's like saying we need to analyze Mark David Chapman's reasons on a literal level to "understand" why he killed John Lennon. Roof didn't kill because of the.media or because of what you or I or anyone else thinks a confederate flag might symbolize in a political debate among mentally healthy people.

Anonymous wrote:I don't want Jeff outing that poster, or any poster, just because another poster doesn't believe him. Why would you seriously want Jeff to out a poster on your request?

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP you just exposed you own sock puppetry. It wasn't your false "Jewish girl-antique dealer-who is cool with Nazi memorobilia" persona that had earlier defended roof's manifesto.

Let me just say that is not a persona and she doesn't sock puppet. There is no accounting for her political positions, but she isn't faking any of that.

It says "anonymous" when he she or they post so unless you're going to tell me that the posts are coming from different ip addresses.and you are able to confirm that he she or they is not using a proxy server then thanks but I'll draw.my own conclusions. I realize you are the moderator but that doesn't mean anyone has to accept such pronouncements as accurate unless youbexplain the basisfor your knowledge.

Don't be an idiot. There is probably no poster on this website that I know more about than that one (well, I may know slightly more about my wife). I am not going to go into all the details of how I know, but I guarantee that I know far more about her than you do. I actually do know whether or not she uses the same IP address and/or uses a proxy. You don't know either. You are welcome to you own conclusions, but I'm letting everyone else know that they should ignore your conclusions.

I'm not being an idiot. I think you're a liar and a bit of an ass because you can't back up your claim. "Anonymous" means exactly that.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP you just exposed you own sock puppetry. It wasn't your false "Jewish girl-antique dealer-who is cool with Nazi memorobilia" persona that had earlier defended roof's manifesto.

Let me just say that is not a persona and she doesn't sock puppet. There is no accounting for her political positions, but she isn't faking any of that.

It says "anonymous" when he she or they post so unless you're going to tell me that the posts are coming from different ip addresses.and you are able to confirm that he she or they is not using a proxy server then thanks but I'll draw.my own conclusions. I realize you are the moderator but that doesn't mean anyone has to accept such pronouncements as accurate unless youbexplain the basisfor your knowledge.

Don't be an idiot. There is probably no poster on this website that I know more about than that one (well, I may know slightly more about my wife). I am not going to go into all the details of how I know, but I guarantee that I know far more about her than you do. I actually do know whether or not she uses the same IP address and/or uses a proxy. You don't know either. You are welcome to you own conclusions, but I'm letting everyone else know that they should ignore your conclusions.