Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He was 99. The funeral was a celebration of his life. Our grandfather was a fun and caring man. The 10 year old can understand funny stories about a person's life. People gave speeches at the funeral about how great he was at his business and taking care of employees, with family, and with friends. My 10 year old is able to understand most of these stories. Sorry yours isn't. And either way, a 10 year olds basketball tournament is not that important. Even if he didn't understand all the stories, he would have spent time with his entire extended family and his cousins which I think is still more important than a 10 year olds tournament.

I don't believe you. Ask you child in 10 years 1 story about your grandfather, he won't know one.

Whether an actual story is remembered or not, is not the point. My child will know where his great grandfather is buried, will have memories of the funeral, and will remember that he was admired and loved. He will feel that the great grandfather was part of his life a little more than if he didn't attend. You seriously would have your child miss a funeral of a their last great grandparent for a basketball tournament? I actually don't even think it was a tournament. Just a game. Like it matters either way.

I am sorry but you are wrong. If you child knows anything about his great grandfather it is because you have pictures of him around the house, you have family over on a regular basis and your tell the same story over and over and over again.

A child does not know this from 1 day when he was 10. If it was important to you to have him there, great, that is more about you than him. But your imagination of how this 1 event will affect your child is overstated.

Maybe what makes the impression on the child then is the values of family events and what that means and how it can keep families together. My family is different and spends a lot of time together, so missing a family event like a wedding or funeral is a big deal (even though you would think it would be less of a big deal because we do see each other a lot) but missing everyday things, bday parties or even holidays sometimes (because of marriages etc). Anyway I think that might be where PP is coming from?

This has been such a heated and interesting discussion. As the mom of two above average (but not super elite) athletes, I am thrilled with the role sports has played in their lives. I agree that you cannot make every family function or birthday party that comes down the pike - but that is not the issue here OP raised here. Her specific circumstances, and the special relationship she has with her sister, in my opinion, seem worthy grounds for the using "I need to miss a game card". It happens all of the time- especially at age 14. To suggest otherwise is crazy. People that make the choice to miss a wedding over a tournament do so for personal reasons driven by their personal values - this thread is about personal choice - not about a toxic sports culture. OP's sister chose not to play her card for reasons only she knows - and honestly OP - hard as it is, I would let it go. This is all about her kid and some sort of pressure she is under and not you. In her mind it is okay and makes sense. She wouldn't do it if she didn't think you would understand. On the other hand - as a parent sitting among many different personality types on the bench - it does seem clear that there is a fine line between dedication and desperation.

Anonymous wrote:Lots of talk about this 14-year old's dedication and working so hard for years, culminating in playing a high school sport.

Am I the only one who played soccer since age 5 and really didn't think of it as working hard? In fact, I was lazy about it! But it was something to do and fun and so I kept on keeping on. Took me all the way to a bench warmer in a women's sport at the UofMd. Also, my high school team sucked and so not too too many people were cut.

I think most people don't work that hard at things. I think most people go through life doing what they are suppose to do not what they are passionate about. So you are in the majority.

Lots of talk about this 14-year old's dedication and working so hard for years, culminating in playing a high school sport.

Am I the only one who played soccer since age 5 and really didn't think of it as working hard? In fact, I was lazy about it! But it was something to do and fun and so I kept on keeping on. Took me all the way to a bench warmer in a women's sport at the UofMd. Also, my high school team sucked and so not too too many people were cut.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One day that 14 year old - and the other "sports at all cost" 14 year olds will get married - and guess what - I bet nobody will think twice about blowing off their wedding(s). Because there's a great big difference between the all-me-all- the- time people and people that genuinely love and care about their family and friends. And I know this is true because everybody blew off one of my sisters 3 kids weddings because he grew up to be an entitled pompous ass and so was his wife. It was a packed house for the other two. End of story.

My guess is that he will have a huge wedding because he spend years fostering relationships with teammates. Long weekends in crappy hotels, trying to stay entertained between tournament games, sharing their Gatorade when their teammate forgot theirs.
He will have a hard time picking the best man since he has so many close friends.
They will all toast their friend who got cancer in high school and talk about the time the whole soccer team raised money for his recovery. They will dedicate a toast to him and his wife and 3 kids. At the wedding will be a coach or two that were mentors to him and helped him get his first job.
He will go onto to coach multiple sports teams and mentor many kids in his future... just for the love of it.

Lol this must be what nutty parents think will happen to justify the nuttiness. I played sports my entire life and through college at a D1 school and it was great, but this is quite the romanticized version of it. I was also in a sorority, travelled abroad, etc., and all of that was great too and I am sure contributed to who I am. So did my dad's sarcastic sense of humor and my ingrained family ethos that we show up for each other. Sports can be a piece of a puzzle, but it's not the whole puzzle. And, a lot of people have shitty sports experiences and would be better off having just foregone it. Or sports just weren't that influential (e.g., they sat the bench, didn't get too much joy from it, and never really played again post-high school). I have friends like this.

Sports is not the whole puzzle but neither is the Aunt he sees once a year.

The kid will have many people in his life regardless or missing this one family event.

OP again! Reminded of the big limitations of this type of forum. I don't see my nieces once a year! I guess people are projecting their family experience onto this, understandably.

I thought it was your nephew. Anyway, didn't you say that you live out of town. You drove all the way to their house for the holidays? You don't live in the same area they live, do you?

How often do you see them. When you visit, how much time do you spend with a teen?

Yes, I actually explained all of this somewhere...in the billion posts on this thread! Yes we drive there, they drive here, we meet other places (like for week-long beach vacations each year, holidays, or one-day sports tournaments etc.).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One day that 14 year old - and the other "sports at all cost" 14 year olds will get married - and guess what - I bet nobody will think twice about blowing off their wedding(s). Because there's a great big difference between the all-me-all- the- time people and people that genuinely love and care about their family and friends. And I know this is true because everybody blew off one of my sisters 3 kids weddings because he grew up to be an entitled pompous ass and so was his wife. It was a packed house for the other two. End of story.

My guess is that he will have a huge wedding because he spend years fostering relationships with teammates. Long weekends in crappy hotels, trying to stay entertained between tournament games, sharing their Gatorade when their teammate forgot theirs.

He will have a hard time picking the best man since he has so many close friends.

They will all toast their friend who got cancer in high school and talk about the time the whole soccer team raised money for his recovery. They will dedicate a toast to him and his wife and 3 kids. At the wedding will be a coach or two that were mentors to him and helped him get his first job.

He will go onto to coach multiple sports teams and mentor many kids in his future... just for the love of it.

Lol. I hope this was sarcasm. People don't really think like that, do they?

No. It's not a joke. You think these kids don't have tons of relationships they foster every day. This is actually a true story from a wedding I attended 2 years ago, right after the story of how the mom locked the team out in the snow for 2 hours because they got her floors wet for the 10th time.

I tend to agree with this assessment of the future, but I also agree that many of these people are the kind of people that only hang out with other like minded people. They may raise money for the kid with cancer on the team, but not the kid who lives down the street who also has cancer but isn't into sports. They are caring towards their friends who are just like themselves. They mentor other players as adults because they love playing a game, know how to coach, and want their own children to succeed. They are the parents who leave local teams for travel teams as early as possible. They think anything that doesn't involve sports is a waste of time. I admire the dedication of these kids and adults toward their sport, but I'm also struck by how single minded they are.

I find many people have a chip on their shoulder about athletic kids and don't know these kids play instruments, are active in their church, volunteer with SN kids and have friends in their neighborhood also. They take 1 situation and extrapolate it to their whole live but really are biased by their own life experiences.

Not true. We know families like that who are fantastic people both on and off the court, but unfortunately more are very single minded and not terribly caring. Sure, kids play with other kids in the neighborhood, but many of these parents are not the ones helping out when another family has a problem.

We may need to chalk this up as personal experience and an agreement to disagree. All my neighbor's kids are involved in sports or other activities. And we have the closest block in the neighborhood. One of the primary reasons is that these parents are always around their kids. Where we lived before, very few kids did anything extracurricular because most of their parents were always working.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One day that 14 year old - and the other "sports at all cost" 14 year olds will get married - and guess what - I bet nobody will think twice about blowing off their wedding(s). Because there's a great big difference between the all-me-all- the- time people and people that genuinely love and care about their family and friends. And I know this is true because everybody blew off one of my sisters 3 kids weddings because he grew up to be an entitled pompous ass and so was his wife. It was a packed house for the other two. End of story.

My guess is that he will have a huge wedding because he spend years fostering relationships with teammates. Long weekends in crappy hotels, trying to stay entertained between tournament games, sharing their Gatorade when their teammate forgot theirs.

He will have a hard time picking the best man since he has so many close friends.

They will all toast their friend who got cancer in high school and talk about the time the whole soccer team raised money for his recovery. They will dedicate a toast to him and his wife and 3 kids. At the wedding will be a coach or two that were mentors to him and helped him get his first job.

He will go onto to coach multiple sports teams and mentor many kids in his future... just for the love of it.

Lol. I hope this was sarcasm. People don't really think like that, do they?

No. It's not a joke. You think these kids don't have tons of relationships they foster every day. This is actually a true story from a wedding I attended 2 years ago, right after the story of how the mom locked the team out in the snow for 2 hours because they got her floors wet for the 10th time.

I tend to agree with this assessment of the future, but I also agree that many of these people are the kind of people that only hang out with other like minded people. They may raise money for the kid with cancer on the team, but not the kid who lives down the street who also has cancer but isn't into sports. They are caring towards their friends who are just like themselves. They mentor other players as adults because they love playing a game, know how to coach, and want their own children to succeed. They are the parents who leave local teams for travel teams as early as possible. They think anything that doesn't involve sports is a waste of time. I admire the dedication of these kids and adults toward their sport, but I'm also struck by how single minded they are.

I find many people have a chip on their shoulder about athletic kids and don't know these kids play instruments, are active in their church, volunteer with SN kids and have friends in their neighborhood also. They take 1 situation and extrapolate it to their whole live but really are biased by their own life experiences.

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A pp here and my kids all played sports. But they also did other things like play in the select band, tutored other kids, had part time jobs, were active in church and other school groups, etc. Sports was ONE aspect of full lives.

And to be honest with respect to PP last comments about "waste of time." In all my travels I have RARELY heard an athlete or parent say that that a non-athlete's activities were a waste of time. It is actually the opposite and this thread is proof of that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He was 99. The funeral was a celebration of his life. Our grandfather was a fun and caring man. The 10 year old can understand funny stories about a person's life. People gave speeches at the funeral about how great he was at his business and taking care of employees, with family, and with friends. My 10 year old is able to understand most of these stories. Sorry yours isn't. And either way, a 10 year olds basketball tournament is not that important. Even if he didn't understand all the stories, he would have spent time with his entire extended family and his cousins which I think is still more important than a 10 year olds tournament.

I don't believe you. Ask you child in 10 years 1 story about your grandfather, he won't know one.

Whether an actual story is remembered or not, is not the point. My child will know where his great grandfather is buried, will have memories of the funeral, and will remember that he was admired and loved. He will feel that the great grandfather was part of his life a little more than if he didn't attend. You seriously would have your child miss a funeral of a their last great grandparent for a basketball tournament? I actually don't even think it was a tournament. Just a game. Like it matters either way.

I am sorry but you are wrong. If you child knows anything about his great grandfather it is because you have pictures of him around the house, you have family over on a regular basis and your tell the same story over and over and over again.

A child does not know this from 1 day when he was 10. If it was important to you to have him there, great, that is more about you than him. But your imagination of how this 1 event will affect your child is overstated.

Anonymous wrote:OP.. originally you said " She says my nephew can't come because of this soccer tournament. "

OP updated later to say that she'd provided different details at first to see if that would change the response. So the "nephew" is actually her younger niece, and the sport is not soccer.

I agree with a poster several pages back who said that many of us on each side of the issue were projecting our own things on to OP's situation. For my part, I would generally say a wedding trumps virtually any sporting event. But the specific example she gave of a kid who is just starting out on a high school team made me very nervous for the kid--based completely on negative consequences one of my children faced in dealing with an autocratic and not very astute high school coach.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He was 99. The funeral was a celebration of his life. Our grandfather was a fun and caring man. The 10 year old can understand funny stories about a person's life. People gave speeches at the funeral about how great he was at his business and taking care of employees, with family, and with friends. My 10 year old is able to understand most of these stories. Sorry yours isn't. And either way, a 10 year olds basketball tournament is not that important. Even if he didn't understand all the stories, he would have spent time with his entire extended family and his cousins which I think is still more important than a 10 year olds tournament.

I don't believe you. Ask you child in 10 years 1 story about your grandfather, he won't know one.

Whether an actual story is remembered or not, is not the point. My child will know where his great grandfather is buried, will have memories of the funeral, and will remember that he was admired and loved. He will feel that the great grandfather was part of his life a little more than if he didn't attend. You seriously would have your child miss a funeral of a their last great grandparent for a basketball tournament? I actually don't even think it was a tournament. Just a game. Like it matters either way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One day that 14 year old - and the other "sports at all cost" 14 year olds will get married - and guess what - I bet nobody will think twice about blowing off their wedding(s). Because there's a great big difference between the all-me-all- the- time people and people that genuinely love and care about their family and friends. And I know this is true because everybody blew off one of my sisters 3 kids weddings because he grew up to be an entitled pompous ass and so was his wife. It was a packed house for the other two. End of story.

My guess is that he will have a huge wedding because he spend years fostering relationships with teammates. Long weekends in crappy hotels, trying to stay entertained between tournament games, sharing their Gatorade when their teammate forgot theirs.

He will have a hard time picking the best man since he has so many close friends.

They will all toast their friend who got cancer in high school and talk about the time the whole soccer team raised money for his recovery. They will dedicate a toast to him and his wife and 3 kids. At the wedding will be a coach or two that were mentors to him and helped him get his first job.

He will go onto to coach multiple sports teams and mentor many kids in his future... just for the love of it.

Lol. I hope this was sarcasm. People don't really think like that, do they?

No. It's not a joke. You think these kids don't have tons of relationships they foster every day. This is actually a true story from a wedding I attended 2 years ago, right after the story of how the mom locked the team out in the snow for 2 hours because they got her floors wet for the 10th time.

I tend to agree with this assessment of the future, but I also agree that many of these people are the kind of people that only hang out with other like minded people. They may raise money for the kid with cancer on the team, but not the kid who lives down the street who also has cancer but isn't into sports. They are caring towards their friends who are just like themselves. They mentor other players as adults because they love playing a game, know how to coach, and want their own children to succeed. They are the parents who leave local teams for travel teams as early as possible. They think anything that doesn't involve sports is a waste of time. I admire the dedication of these kids and adults toward their sport, but I'm also struck by how single minded they are.

I find many people have a chip on their shoulder about athletic kids and don't know these kids play instruments, are active in their church, volunteer with SN kids and have friends in their neighborhood also. They take 1 situation and extrapolate it to their whole live but really are biased by their own life experiences.

Not true. We know families like that who are fantastic people both on and off the court, but unfortunately more are very single minded and not terribly caring. Sure, kids play with other kids in the neighborhood, but many of these parents are not the ones helping out when another family has a problem.

Conversely I find these people to be active in every aspect of their life and community. While some people just phone it in.

Anonymous wrote:He was 99. The funeral was a celebration of his life. Our grandfather was a fun and caring man. The 10 year old can understand funny stories about a person's life. People gave speeches at the funeral about how great he was at his business and taking care of employees, with family, and with friends. My 10 year old is able to understand most of these stories. Sorry yours isn't. And either way, a 10 year olds basketball tournament is not that important. Even if he didn't understand all the stories, he would have spent time with his entire extended family and his cousins which I think is still more important than a 10 year olds tournament.

I don't believe you. Ask you child in 10 years 1 story about your grandfather, he won't know one.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One day that 14 year old - and the other "sports at all cost" 14 year olds will get married - and guess what - I bet nobody will think twice about blowing off their wedding(s). Because there's a great big difference between the all-me-all- the- time people and people that genuinely love and care about their family and friends. And I know this is true because everybody blew off one of my sisters 3 kids weddings because he grew up to be an entitled pompous ass and so was his wife. It was a packed house for the other two. End of story.

My guess is that he will have a huge wedding because he spend years fostering relationships with teammates. Long weekends in crappy hotels, trying to stay entertained between tournament games, sharing their Gatorade when their teammate forgot theirs.

He will have a hard time picking the best man since he has so many close friends.

They will all toast their friend who got cancer in high school and talk about the time the whole soccer team raised money for his recovery. They will dedicate a toast to him and his wife and 3 kids. At the wedding will be a coach or two that were mentors to him and helped him get his first job.

He will go onto to coach multiple sports teams and mentor many kids in his future... just for the love of it.

Lol. I hope this was sarcasm. People don't really think like that, do they?

No. It's not a joke. You think these kids don't have tons of relationships they foster every day. This is actually a true story from a wedding I attended 2 years ago, right after the story of how the mom locked the team out in the snow for 2 hours because they got her floors wet for the 10th time.

I tend to agree with this assessment of the future, but I also agree that many of these people are the kind of people that only hang out with other like minded people. They may raise money for the kid with cancer on the team, but not the kid who lives down the street who also has cancer but isn't into sports. They are caring towards their friends who are just like themselves. They mentor other players as adults because they love playing a game, know how to coach, and want their own children to succeed. They are the parents who leave local teams for travel teams as early as possible. They think anything that doesn't involve sports is a waste of time. I admire the dedication of these kids and adults toward their sport, but I'm also struck by how single minded they are.

I find many people have a chip on their shoulder about athletic kids and don't know these kids play instruments, are active in their church, volunteer with SN kids and have friends in their neighborhood also. They take 1 situation and extrapolate it to their whole live but really are biased by their own life experiences.

Not true. We know families like that who are fantastic people both on and off the court, but unfortunately more are very single minded and not terribly caring. Sure, kids play with other kids in the neighborhood, but many of these parents are not the ones helping out when another family has a problem.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know, my husband's family can never understand why some of their kids can't make family events because of prior sports commitments and they give them such a hard time. But my family was like that, and you know what? It paid for my college education IN FULL. So suck it.

The time for both the parents and children and money involved in competitive sports is way more than the cost of college, not even factoring in the cost of your relationship with your family. I think most families are accommodating of special events. When you can't make any once a year family event because of a sports commitment year after year it gets to be old.

My brother's kid has a full ride to play college v-ball. He's been complaining for the last 8 years that they've been paying $1000 a month to pay for her to play in the elite club to make the college scholarship a reality. Let me do that math. Let's say college is $120k. $1000x12x8=$96,000. They are coming out a tiny bit ahead, in this very rough estimation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I think this thread has shown us that different families work differently. For those who didn't already know that, here you go. Try not to be so horrified that everyone doesn't do everything like you would.

OP here. I think this is my takeaway from this thread. So thank you everyone - it's a valuable takeway and helped me process and move through this.

I actually believe my sister is pretty darn consistent with me on how we view family and I think we both agree that celebratory family gatherings like this present a tremendous opportunity and reward. But somehow sports in her kids' lives seem to trump everything for her for whatever various reasons. I can't tell her how her nuclear family should work, even when it impacts others. I can just be disappointed for me, my partner, my mom, my dad, my grandmother and others who all want my niece to be there with us, and even for my niece (because I subscribe to the fact that these types of moments can be a thread in the beautiful fabric that is a family over the years; sorry for the cheese!). And even for my sister who I am sure wishes she would not have forgotten the tournament and could have her kid in both places. But it is what it is. I told my mom to smack me upside the head if in 14 years I end up with a different outlook. She said she absolutely would.

You will think differently in 14 years.... and if you mom is a good mom, she will let the lesson just be learned and not smack you upside the head.

There are tons of things you will do in the next 40 years that your 40 year old self can't imagine you would do.

Good luck with the next 60+ years, it will be educational.

I love the people who think and say Oh Just Wait, as a way of dismissing a value or perspective or position,. Guess what, there are people on this thread who have teens and think the same as OP does pre-kids.

Are there people on this forum who knew exactly how they were going to raise their children BEFORE they had children and never wavered from that thinking. If so, that is sad.