Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But what if she's elderly? Is there more dignity getting handouts from the government than from family who loves you?

I guess my point is -- if you think getting handouts from your male relatives is degrading, fine. But some people find it degrading to rely on handouts from the government or strangers or a husband that cheated and dumped you or mistreated you. These are different systems. In an ideal world the islamic model works. This isnt to say the American model does not. It's a different system.

Not to belabor this, but the husband paid into Social Security. So Social Security is an earned benefit not a "handout." Also, the Social Security benefit is in proportion to the taxes you paid, so there's no risk of getting a pittance like from your rich but stingy uncle. If the husband was a poor laborer and the widow's Social Security benefit is small, there are other government programs (SSI, Medicare, various food and heating programs) to help.

Yes. Yes, I prefer this to begging from my uncle (I have no brothers and DH's brother is incapacitated and can't work himself)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a middle eastern Christian. On the one hand I share a culture with middle eastern Muslims. With the best of the Muslims, we share our faiths - they come to Christmas and Easter liturgies and we share in their Eids. On the other hand, we know what it is like to be treated as najis (unclean).

Right now, all I can think of are my brothers and sisters of faith who have fled Mosul.

My consolation is that our God so loved the world that He took on human guise and suffered as my brothers and sisters from Mosul are suffering - persecution and death.

Amen.

What the OP says here is so true. Prior to the rise of Islamic fundamentalism the faiths mingled easily and with respect. West of the Jordan, in fact, every Muslim tribe was allied to a Christian tribe. In one such alliance, when someone from the Christian tribe (Orthodox) became a priest, the ceremony included the patriarch of the Muslim tribe placing the priests hat on the new priest.

Islamic fundamentalism has not just brought brutal terror and death, but also has ripped apart the the culture of religious tolerance that prevailed for centuries.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My sister in law is a Christian living in a Muslim country. Her husband has MS and is dying, very very slowly. She is infertile and never had children. So when her husband dies at a young age, her in-laws will inherit most of his property thanks to Shariah law, because she never had children. A woman who has a female child also has to forfeit a portion of her husband's assets if he dies. Male siblings earn a larger share at their parents' death.

I'm not a huge fan of Islamic law.

But that male child must support not only his parents but his sister when he is an adult whereas the daughter has no such obligation. In the American scenario a wife may inherit husbands assets but when it runs out, too bad. In Islamic states, the wife must be cared for for life by her father or brother or uncle.

It's demeaning to follow your male relatives around with your outstretched hand all your life. Get a job and stop mooching.

Technically it's correct that there are laws that say male relatives must support female relative. But the laws are not proportional to the means of the males, not do they enforce a concept of style of life one is accustomed to. So a male relative who is a billionaire could be compelled to pay support as little as $50 a month to a female relative. The required amounts are pretty much set at a level that would allow the woman to live at poverty level in a rent controlled tiny apartment.

Evidence, please?

I cannot cite a law here but have lived in the Middle East and knew a mother and daughter her sued her brothers-in-law for support out of principle. (The mother had means she had inherited from her family.) They went to court and were awarded the amount set by law. It was tiny. The laws set a fixed amount that applies to people of all classes, and the vast majority of people are lower middle class to lower class, so the level is set to be reasonable to that kind of status. The levels are not indexed to inflation either, so the result is a pittance.

Have no idea why you think it could possibly be anything other than that. Everything is codified--the courts aren't set up with judges who determine what is reasonable to the circumstances as they are here.

Anonymous wrote:I am a middle eastern Christian. On the one hand I share a culture with middle eastern Muslims. With the best of the Muslims, we share our faiths - they come to Christmas and Easter liturgies and we share in their Eids. On the other hand, we know what it is like to be treated as najis (unclean).

Right now, all I can think of are my brothers and sisters of faith who have fled Mosul.

My consolation is that our God so loved the world that He took on human guise and suffered as my brothers and sisters from Mosul are suffering - persecution and death.

Amen.

I am not about to run around researching evidence for you, but everything I have read seems to validate PP's statement.

Shall we discuss the Niqab yet again? Or ISIS?

Again, people and religions EVOLVE. This one hasn't seemed to.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My sister in law is a Christian living in a Muslim country. Her husband has MS and is dying, very very slowly. She is infertile and never had children. So when her husband dies at a young age, her in-laws will inherit most of his property thanks to Shariah law, because she never had children. A woman who has a female child also has to forfeit a portion of her husband's assets if he dies. Male siblings earn a larger share at their parents' death.

I'm not a huge fan of Islamic law.

Tell her to convert immediately, or make the husband gift the property to her while he's alive. The latter is actually a better deal since the wife doesn't get all the inheritance anyway. But there are no limitations on gifts. That way she gets everything as a gift, rather than a little bit when he dies.

1. She'd rather die than convert to Islam, and

2. If the latter were a viable option I think she would have taken it already.

Not necessarily, she is probably not thinking about it pragmatically. She should convert and be a bad Muslim.

She has something called personal integrity, and she's a devout Christian. Some people don't believe in lying for personal gain.

If she were that devout she wouldn't be married to a Muslim.

LOL NEITHER of them are Muslim!! They are both Christian and are bound by Islamic inheritance laws because that is the law of the land. That's the fun of being a citizen of a Muslim country, people! And his family isn't very nice, so they probably will take what little that he has when he dies. And they don't have a ton of money to just up and move somewhere else.

If he is Christian living in an Arab country, then the applicable law is not Islamic inheritance law, but the church inheritance law. In Arab countries, matters of personal status are dealt with by the religious institutions. Most unfortunately, in these countries Islamic inheritance laws are so deeply embedded that all of the church inheritance laws look just like the Islamic inheritance laws.

If he cares about his wife he would sell their house if he owns it and would rent. The money from the sale would be used to buy jewelry for her--that is hers to keep, no one can touch it. Or he could send it to bank overseas in her name. No one would be able to touch that either. But he is likely is brainwashed into the system and no doubt has deluded himself that his brothers will support his wife if he dies so sees no need to do anything. I have to agree, she should get a job and start saving.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My sister in law is a Christian living in a Muslim country. Her husband has MS and is dying, very very slowly. She is infertile and never had children. So when her husband dies at a young age, her in-laws will inherit most of his property thanks to Shariah law, because she never had children. A woman who has a female child also has to forfeit a portion of her husband's assets if he dies. Male siblings earn a larger share at their parents' death.

I'm not a huge fan of Islamic law.

But that male child must support not only his parents but his sister when he is an adult whereas the daughter has no such obligation. In the American scenario a wife may inherit husbands assets but when it runs out, too bad. In Islamic states, the wife must be cared for for life by her father or brother or uncle.

It's demeaning to follow your male relatives around with your outstretched hand all your life. Get a job and stop mooching.

Technically it's correct that there are laws that say male relatives must support female relative. But the laws are not proportional to the means of the males, not do they enforce a concept of style of life one is accustomed to. So a male relative who is a billionaire could be compelled to pay support as little as $50 a month to a female relative. The required amounts are pretty much set at a level that would allow the woman to live at poverty level in a rent controlled tiny apartment.

Evidence, please?

Anonymous wrote:Bwahaa! Funny PP.

Dignity fro getting handouts from the muslim family who despises your background so much that you can't keep your marital property after your husband's death?

There is no dignity in that.

The dignity is keeping what is yours and your husband's (including your children) and living life on your own with you own family, NOT being a ward of your inlaws

Also, I don't think the requirement to give a pittance to female relatives applies to non-Muslim sisters in law.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My sister in law is a Christian living in a Muslim country. Her husband has MS and is dying, very very slowly. She is infertile and never had children. So when her husband dies at a young age, her in-laws will inherit most of his property thanks to Shariah law, because she never had children. A woman who has a female child also has to forfeit a portion of her husband's assets if he dies. Male siblings earn a larger share at their parents' death.

I'm not a huge fan of Islamic law.

But that male child must support not only his parents but his sister when he is an adult whereas the daughter has no such obligation. In the American scenario a wife may inherit husbands assets but when it runs out, too bad. In Islamic states, the wife must be cared for for life by her father or brother or uncle.

It's demeaning to follow your male relatives around with your outstretched hand all your life. Get a job and stop mooching.

Technically it's correct that there are laws that say male relatives must support female relative. But the laws are not proportional to the means of the males, not do they enforce a concept of style of life one is accustomed to. So a male relative who is a billionaire could be compelled to pay support as little as $50 a month to a female relative. The required amounts are pretty much set at a level that would allow the woman to live at poverty level in a rent controlled tiny apartment.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My sister in law is a Christian living in a Muslim country. Her husband has MS and is dying, very very slowly. She is infertile and never had children. So when her husband dies at a young age, her in-laws will inherit most of his property thanks to Shariah law, because she never had children. A woman who has a female child also has to forfeit a portion of her husband's assets if he dies. Male siblings earn a larger share at their parents' death.

I'm not a huge fan of Islamic law.

But that male child must support not only his parents but his sister when he is an adult whereas the daughter has no such obligation. In the American scenario a wife may inherit husbands assets but when it runs out, too bad. In Islamic states, the wife must be cared for for life by her father or brother or uncle.

In the American scenario, she gets 100% of their assets. She also gets Social Security if she's a widow caring for a child under 18, or if she herself is 60 or over. So, there's a government safety net rather than relying on the kindness of male relatives, if these even exist.

If there is no child, and in the scenario you described their assets run out, she gets a job. On one of these threads OP said something negative about widows being "forced to work," but trust me, working to support yourself isn't really that bad and might just be more dignified than living in your brother's garret.

But what if she's elderly? Is there more dignity getting handouts from the government than from family who loves you?

I guess my point is -- if you think getting handouts from your male relatives is degrading, fine. But some people find it degrading to rely on handouts from the government or strangers or a husband that cheated and dumped you or mistreated you. These are different systems. In an ideal world the islamic model works. This isnt to say the American model does not. It's a different system.

Bwahaa! Funny PP.

Dignity fro getting handouts from the muslim family who despises your background so much that you can't keep your marital property after your husband's death?

There is no dignity in that.

The dignity is keeping what is yours and your husband's (including your children) and living life on your own with you own family, NOT being a ward of your inlaws

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My sister in law is a Christian living in a Muslim country. Her husband has MS and is dying, very very slowly. She is infertile and never had children. So when her husband dies at a young age, her in-laws will inherit most of his property thanks to Shariah law, because she never had children. A woman who has a female child also has to forfeit a portion of her husband's assets if he dies. Male siblings earn a larger share at their parents' death.

I'm not a huge fan of Islamic law.

But that male child must support not only his parents but his sister when he is an adult whereas the daughter has no such obligation. In the American scenario a wife may inherit husbands assets but when it runs out, too bad. In Islamic states, the wife must be cared for for life by her father or brother or uncle.

In the American scenario, she gets 100% of their assets. She also gets Social Security if she's a widow caring for a child under 18, or if she herself is 60 or over. So, there's a government safety net rather than relying on the kindness of male relatives, if these even exist.

If there is no child, and in the scenario you described their assets run out, she gets a job. On one of these threads OP said something negative about widows being "forced to work," but trust me, working to support yourself isn't really that bad and might just be more dignified than living in your brother's garret.

But what if she's elderly? Is there more dignity getting handouts from the government than from family who loves you?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If her husband loves her, why doesn't he fly back to the states or Europe with her? He can finish his life knowing that his wife is safe and free.

LOL not all people have this luxury (or a VISA or immigration status! jeez people how out of touch are y'all!). He continues to work and be the breadwinner.

Dying of MS and continues to work?

If he wanted to he could find a way to protect her.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My sister in law is a Christian living in a Muslim country. Her husband has MS and is dying, very very slowly. She is infertile and never had children. So when her husband dies at a young age, her in-laws will inherit most of his property thanks to Shariah law, because she never had children. A woman who has a female child also has to forfeit a portion of her husband's assets if he dies. Male siblings earn a larger share at their parents' death.

I'm not a huge fan of Islamic law.

Tell her to convert immediately, or make the husband gift the property to her while he's alive. The latter is actually a better deal since the wife doesn't get all the inheritance anyway. But there are no limitations on gifts. That way she gets everything as a gift, rather than a little bit when he dies.

1. She'd rather die than convert to Islam, and

2. If the latter were a viable option I think she would have taken it already.

Not necessarily, she is probably not thinking about it pragmatically. She should convert and be a bad Muslim.

She has something called personal integrity, and she's a devout Christian. Some people don't believe in lying for personal gain.

If she were that devout she wouldn't be married to a Muslim.

LOL NEITHER of them are Muslim!! They are both Christian and are bound by Islamic inheritance laws because that is the law of the land. That's the fun of being a citizen of a Muslim country, people! And his family isn't very nice, so they probably will take what little that he has when he dies. And they don't have a ton of money to just up and move somewhere else.