Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh please. Anybody who says the Jewish mother thing was invented by men to shtup shicksas never had a Jewish mother.

I think 23:56 and 15:11 are the same person.

As for Jewess, if you are a gentile, go ahead and refer to a Jewish woman that way in front of another Jewish woman. Then do the same thing with the N word and a black woman. It'll all work out.

Uh, no. Why on earth would I try to answer my own questions? Is this site that weird?

Not the site, you. How could anybody take seriously a woman who boasts, to a forum frequented by people from the Northeast, that she refrains from using the term "Jewed him down." Likewise, who could take seriously a woman who insists that there is no such thing as a Jewish Mother, and that it is all a plot of swarthy Jewish men who need an excuse to bed shiksas? The same woman, bubby.

Nope, I'm the PP who says swarthy men who wish to bed shiksas demonize their own mothers (and sisters) to make it ok. In fact, since the close of the Nazi era, no one has said uglier things about Jewish women than the men in their own communities, and the intermarriage rate is significantly higher for Jewish men than it is for Jewish women. I think there's a lot going on wrt. sexual politics/ mainstream perceptions of attractiveness, social aspirations, and cultural identity that's much bigger than individual couples who claim they're in luuuuuurve.

I note, too, that a (presumably) female PP said she married a Catholic because she couldn't stand Jewish mothers-in-law, somehow as a way of explaining that my suggestion of mothers being handy scapegoats/ easy embodiments of guilt for turning one's back on tradition was obviously false. She herself tied this stereotype to her choice of mate as a way of legitimizing her decision. Handy, that, and very nice of Woody Allen et al to have provided the rationale for her!

So I'm not the PP who asked the question, but for that PP, "Jewing down" is TOTALLY a phrase to avoid. Much worse than "Jewess", which is more archaic than actually offensive.

Jew here. My mom and both my grandmothers are very far from the stereotype. But, IME, they are the exception. The rare exception.

My MIL? Guilt tripping, overbearing, babied her three sons and still does to the point that DH turns into a helpless needy 5 year old in her presence. I love her, but, damn. She's the stereotype.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh please. Anybody who says the Jewish mother thing was invented by men to shtup shicksas never had a Jewish mother.

I think 23:56 and 15:11 are the same person.

As for Jewess, if you are a gentile, go ahead and refer to a Jewish woman that way in front of another Jewish woman. Then do the same thing with the N word and a black woman. It'll all work out.

Uh, no. Why on earth would I try to answer my own questions? Is this site that weird?

Not the site, you. How could anybody take seriously a woman who boasts, to a forum frequented by people from the Northeast, that she refrains from using the term "Jewed him down." Likewise, who could take seriously a woman who insists that there is no such thing as a Jewish Mother, and that it is all a plot of swarthy Jewish men who need an excuse to bed shiksas? The same woman, bubby.

06:58 poster here again. I will say most of these Jews practice a very reformed version of Judaism. They tend to be the Washington Hebrew Jews. My brother lives in Indiana and is Orthodox. Completely different.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, NP here. Not Jewish, but have many many great friends who are. One of my closest friends is the most charming, lovely woman/mother you could ever meet. My question? Where did the stereotype of the overbearing, guilt-tripping, Jewish mother come from? Forgive me if my description isn't right on the money - but my friends could not be further from the stereotype. Was there something like a "Tiger Mom" syndrome in the early U.S. communities - to study hard an make good grades. Or does it go back further?

Also, I had heard older Jewish men use the term "Jewess" in a non-derogatory way to describe women, but I have assumed that term is one to be avoided. True?

Not OP, but the Jewish mother thing arose as a justification for Jewish men who wanted to "marry out" or merely fetishized non-Jewish women (as our very own Portnoy apparently does). These guys had to excuse themselves by saying that Jewish women were simply unsuitable, and that it wasn't their fault they couldn't possibly select women like their mothers as mates. The cultural ties so many men felt were holding them back from all the privileges of white manhood in America were projected onto these guilting mother characters, who served to remind them of their ethnic "otherness" at a moment in history when they found they could otherwise "pass".

Similar story with the "Jewish American Princess" trope. Lots of misogyny, there!

I haven't heard anyone say "Jewess", but I see the word a lot when working with pamphlets and articles from the early 20th century, when today's older men may have learned to use it. It was a pretty innocuous word then, used by charitable Jewish organizations, etc. It sounds a little funny to my ear, but it's not a biggie.

I am a Jew and did not know this. Very interesting. However, I grew up in Potomac. I know quite a few Jewish mothers who are the stereotype. I went to school with more "Jewish American Princesses" then I can count. I married a Catholic b/c I could not deal with the Jewish mama's boys and their overbearing mothers. Of course not everyone is like this...but I know a bunch who are.

Anonymous wrote:Oh please. Anybody who says the Jewish mother thing was invented by men to shtup shicksas never had a Jewish mother.

I think 23:56 and 15:11 are the same person.

As for Jewess, if you are a gentile, go ahead and refer to a Jewish woman that way in front of another Jewish woman. Then do the same thing with the N word and a black woman. It'll all work out.

Uh, no. Why on earth would I try to answer my own questions? Is this site that weird?

Also, anybody who says the JAP think is just a misogynist canard has not spent time growing up in the Five Towns.

Oh please. Anybody who says the Jewish mother thing was invented by men to shtup shicksas never had a Jewish mother.

I think 23:56 and 15:11 are the same person.

As for Jewess, if you are a gentile, go ahead and refer to a Jewish woman that way in front of another Jewish woman. Then do the same thing with the N word and a black woman. It'll all work out.

Thanks 23:56. I'm 15:11. Greatly appreciated your thoughtful remark. My mother-in-law (deceased) was a "Jewess" but I no longer hear people using the phrase so will avoid it because I'm afraid it will offend.

Similarly, I avoid the phrase previously discussed here "Jew them down" because I think it is derogatory, but some older friends of mine (extremely well-educated, thoughtful people) said they would use the phrase. What's your thought?

Anonymous wrote:OP, NP here. Not Jewish, but have many many great friends who are. One of my closest friends is the most charming, lovely woman/mother you could ever meet. My question? Where did the stereotype of the overbearing, guilt-tripping, Jewish mother come from? Forgive me if my description isn't right on the money - but my friends could not be further from the stereotype. Was there something like a "Tiger Mom" syndrome in the early U.S. communities - to study hard an make good grades. Or does it go back further?

Also, I had heard older Jewish men use the term "Jewess" in a non-derogatory way to describe women, but I have assumed that term is one to be avoided. True?

Not OP, but the Jewish mother thing arose as a justification for Jewish men who wanted to "marry out" or merely fetishized non-Jewish women (as our very own Portnoy apparently does). These guys had to excuse themselves by saying that Jewish women were simply unsuitable, and that it wasn't their fault they couldn't possibly select women like their mothers as mates. The cultural ties so many men felt were holding them back from all the privileges of white manhood in America were projected onto these guilting mother characters, who served to remind them of their ethnic "otherness" at a moment in history when they found they could otherwise "pass".

Similar story with the "Jewish American Princess" trope. Lots of misogyny, there!

I haven't heard anyone say "Jewess", but I see the word a lot when working with pamphlets and articles from the early 20th century, when today's older men may have learned to use it. It was a pretty innocuous word then, used by charitable Jewish organizations, etc. It sounds a little funny to my ear, but it's not a biggie.

As a Jew, I nor my friends, nor my kids even had issues with Santa not coming to us. We also like christmas and the pretty lights and fun songs but really dont mind not celebrating.

Those who celebrate Christmas appear to think it and Santa are the most important things in the world and perhaps they are (I dont know or judge) but to those of us who dont celebrate, its just another day off from work and we dont feel like we are missing out.

Anonymous wrote:What do you want me to tell my Santa believing 5 year old when she asks why Santa didn't come to your kid's house?

Several options:

(1) Santa is a pagan construct having nothing to do with the celebration of Christ's birth. We're sorry that we let you believe that this obese schlub had anything more to do with our religion than pokemon or power rangers. So little one, Santa may not visit your sweet friend Saul's house, but maybe a pokemon or power ranger will.

or

(2) Santa did not come to Saul's house because he and his parents have green livers and horns beneath their skullcaps. And don't get me started on the ingredients they use on their unleavened bread.

Anonymous wrote:What do you want me to tell my Santa believing 5 year old when she asks why Santa didn't come to your kid's house?

Not everyone celebrates Christmas and Santa only comes to people who celebrate Christmas. but your friend has her own special holiday that she celebrates with her family and has its own miracles.

What do you want me to tell my Santa believing 5 year old when she asks why Santa didn't come to your kid's house?

OP, NP here. Not Jewish, but have many many great friends who are. One of my closest friends is the most charming, lovely woman/mother you could ever meet. My question? Where did the stereotype of the overbearing, guilt-tripping, Jewish mother come from? Forgive me if my description isn't right on the money - but my friends could not be further from the stereotype. Was there something like a "Tiger Mom" syndrome in the early U.S. communities - to study hard an make good grades. Or does it go back further?

Also, I had heard older Jewish men use the term "Jewess" in a non-derogatory way to describe women, but I have assumed that term is one to be avoided. True?