Anonymous
Post 10/08/2013 13:43     Subject: Does anyone like Curriculum 2.0?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Well, from the graded work I'm getting back in math, a P is perfect and an I means that something (no matter how minor) was wrong. I.e. a label was omitted on a graph so now the that section is an I. Perhaps it's just an issue w/ the teachers understanding of the new grading system, but A/B/C with percentages gives more granularity since they don't seem to be giving any ES or N scores.


Are you getting the work back with just a P or an I on the top, or are the incorrect parts/problems marked?

If you're getting marked work back, then what more information does a P/I vs. A/B/C provide? You're got the marked work; you know what the child did and didn't do right.


Sometimes yes, sometimes no. She's gotten I's when I can't see anything explicitly wrong, or nothing is called out in a BCR. And it just seems so subjective; miss one label due to carelessness and it's an I? What constitutes proficient? My kids understands exactly what she's doing and makes a careless mistake. Is that an I? P? Who knows? With grades at least you had a general idea where the kids was falling in the spectrum. Perhaps it's just the current teacher.

What spectrum ? And I am seriously not trying to be a smartass, but if you see where your kid is making mistakes, sees what she is doing right or wrong -- what spectrum do you need to see where she falls?
You already have a fairly good idea of what she does and does not know.
Anonymous
Post 10/08/2013 13:35     Subject: Does anyone like Curriculum 2.0?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Well, from the graded work I'm getting back in math, a P is perfect and an I means that something (no matter how minor) was wrong. I.e. a label was omitted on a graph so now the that section is an I. Perhaps it's just an issue w/ the teachers understanding of the new grading system, but A/B/C with percentages gives more granularity since they don't seem to be giving any ES or N scores.


Are you getting the work back with just a P or an I on the top, or are the incorrect parts/problems marked?

If you're getting marked work back, then what more information does a P/I vs. A/B/C provide? You're got the marked work; you know what the child did and didn't do right.


Sometimes yes, sometimes no. She's gotten I's when I can't see anything explicitly wrong, or nothing is called out in a BCR. And it just seems so subjective; miss one label due to carelessness and it's an I? What constitutes proficient? My kids understands exactly what she's doing and makes a careless mistake. Is that an I? P? Who knows? With grades at least you had a general idea where the kids was falling in the spectrum. Perhaps it's just the current teacher.
Anonymous
Post 10/08/2013 13:33     Subject: Re:Does anyone like Curriculum 2.0?
Anonymous wrote:The random and arbitrary nature of the ES wasn't a problem in 1st grade as DC didn't seem to notice or care. Its becoming a problem in 3rd grade. The kids are aware of ES. Sometimes the teacher will give the kid's rubrics that show what is a N, I, P and ES. The problem is that even if they do what is listed as required for an ES it usually doesn't mean an ES. The teacher has said that she reserves that for someone who did something truly different and way above the rest but its always in comparison. DC isn't gifted and will never be the best one in the class so DC has decided now to never try to do more than what it says to do for a P. This seems to be the norm among all her friends who just assume they could never get an ES if they try so why bother.

This wasn't our experience with our older child who also was not gifted but willing to work harder if he perceived there was some reason to do it. He did put in some extra effort to get an O.


I understand where you are coming and this is actually the first year my kid has even expressed interest in 'ES" and was quite upset that when she got one, I pointed out her poor penmanship -her handwriting can look like mine when she tries.
Bottom line, I think the hard part is teaching our kids that their best effort, and their learning is the PRIMARY END GOAL, not someone else's assessment. Getting an ES is great, but I want to instill an internal monitor of 'am I understanding? ' 'what can i do better?' 'did i give it my all?'. Getting the ES is just gravy!

The highest grade given by the teacher -- that
Anonymous
Post 10/08/2013 13:02     Subject: Does anyone like Curriculum 2.0?
Anonymous wrote:

Well, from the graded work I'm getting back in math, a P is perfect and an I means that something (no matter how minor) was wrong. I.e. a label was omitted on a graph so now the that section is an I. Perhaps it's just an issue w/ the teachers understanding of the new grading system, but A/B/C with percentages gives more granularity since they don't seem to be giving any ES or N scores.


Are you getting the work back with just a P or an I on the top, or are the incorrect parts/problems marked?

If you're getting marked work back, then what more information does a P/I vs. A/B/C provide? You're got the marked work; you know what the child did and didn't do right.
Anonymous
Post 10/08/2013 12:58     Subject: Does anyone like Curriculum 2.0?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

At least in math, we can look at the specific questions and know whether he is getting it or not. I think the reading/writing areas are far murkier. My kid will write a paragraph and it will come home marked as a P. That's it. No comments on it. No feedback at all from the teacher, just a P at the top. I don't think that is right. In order to develop as a writer, you must get feedback. A P at the top of the page doesn't provide any meaningful feedback.


But I don't think that this is a problem with the grading system, or with Curriculum 2.0. Would an A/B/C at the top of the page, with no comments, be more meaningful than a P/I/N? The problem isn't the grading system -- it's the lack of comments. And Curriculum 2.0 surely does not forbid comments.


Well, from the graded work I'm getting back in math, a P is perfect and an I means that something (no matter how minor) was wrong. I.e. a label was omitted on a graph so now the that section is an I. Perhaps it's just an issue w/ the teachers understanding of the new grading system, but A/B/C with percentages gives more granularity since they don't seem to be giving any ES or N scores.

But what could be more granular than seeing the test and seeing exactly what the child got wrong? Isn't that information more important than the grade?
Anonymous
Post 10/08/2013 12:58     Subject: Re:Does anyone like Curriculum 2.0?
The random and arbitrary nature of the ES wasn't a problem in 1st grade as DC didn't seem to notice or care. Its becoming a problem in 3rd grade. The kids are aware of ES. Sometimes the teacher will give the kid's rubrics that show what is a N, I, P and ES. The problem is that even if they do what is listed as required for an ES it usually doesn't mean an ES. The teacher has said that she reserves that for someone who did something truly different and way above the rest but its always in comparison. DC isn't gifted and will never be the best one in the class so DC has decided now to never try to do more than what it says to do for a P. This seems to be the norm among all her friends who just assume they could never get an ES if they try so why bother.

This wasn't our experience with our older child who also was not gifted but willing to work harder if he perceived there was some reason to do it. He did put in some extra effort to get an O.
Anonymous
Post 10/08/2013 12:51     Subject: Does anyone like Curriculum 2.0?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

At least in math, we can look at the specific questions and know whether he is getting it or not. I think the reading/writing areas are far murkier. My kid will write a paragraph and it will come home marked as a P. That's it. No comments on it. No feedback at all from the teacher, just a P at the top. I don't think that is right. In order to develop as a writer, you must get feedback. A P at the top of the page doesn't provide any meaningful feedback.


But I don't think that this is a problem with the grading system, or with Curriculum 2.0. Would an A/B/C at the top of the page, with no comments, be more meaningful than a P/I/N? The problem isn't the grading system -- it's the lack of comments. And Curriculum 2.0 surely does not forbid comments.


Well, from the graded work I'm getting back in math, a P is perfect and an I means that something (no matter how minor) was wrong. I.e. a label was omitted on a graph so now the that section is an I. Perhaps it's just an issue w/ the teachers understanding of the new grading system, but A/B/C with percentages gives more granularity since they don't seem to be giving any ES or N scores.
Anonymous
Post 10/08/2013 11:11     Subject: Does anyone like Curriculum 2.0?
Anonymous wrote:

At least in math, we can look at the specific questions and know whether he is getting it or not. I think the reading/writing areas are far murkier. My kid will write a paragraph and it will come home marked as a P. That's it. No comments on it. No feedback at all from the teacher, just a P at the top. I don't think that is right. In order to develop as a writer, you must get feedback. A P at the top of the page doesn't provide any meaningful feedback.


But I don't think that this is a problem with the grading system, or with Curriculum 2.0. Would an A/B/C at the top of the page, with no comments, be more meaningful than a P/I/N? The problem isn't the grading system -- it's the lack of comments. And Curriculum 2.0 surely does not forbid comments.
Anonymous
Post 10/08/2013 10:39     Subject: Does anyone like Curriculum 2.0?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:7:02, I agree with you! My issue is that my child - 4th grade- has figured out (or has been told, not sure which) that all kids in his class will get a P or an I. He notices that if he gets all the math problems correct, he gets a P AND that his friend who gets 5 problems wrong ALSO gets a P. Yes, we've explained that getting the problems correct and understanding the concepts is what matters but, puhleeze, what kind of message does it send to have both results lead to the same letter grade?

At least in math, we can look at the specific questions and know whether he is getting it or not. I think the reading/writing areas are far murkier. My kid will write a paragraph and it will come home marked as a P. That's it. No comments on it. No feedback at all from the teacher, just a P at the top. I don't think that is right. In order to develop as a writer, you must get feedback. A P at the top of the page doesn't provide any meaningful feedback. This is especially true when, as the math example demonstrates, the P can mean anything from mediocre to excellent.

I understand your frustration, but I see this more as a teacher issue.
My 3rd grader gets letter grades AND the teacher writes notes on the work.
Honestly, no matter what the symbols(and all grading systems are symbols) if the teacher is not giving detailed feedback, then it will be difficult for a parent to ascertain a child's progress in any meaningful way.


Yes definitely a teacher, and perhaps a schoolwide problem. A child getting 5 answers wrong on a math test absolutely would not get a P at our school. Perhaps not even an I. I am not particularly bothered by the lack of ES at our school because we can see from the work that comes home that getting a P is hard, not easy at our school.
Anonymous
Post 10/08/2013 10:34     Subject: Does anyone like Curriculum 2.0?
Anonymous wrote:7:02, I agree with you! My issue is that my child - 4th grade- has figured out (or has been told, not sure which) that all kids in his class will get a P or an I. He notices that if he gets all the math problems correct, he gets a P AND that his friend who gets 5 problems wrong ALSO gets a P. Yes, we've explained that getting the problems correct and understanding the concepts is what matters but, puhleeze, what kind of message does it send to have both results lead to the same letter grade?

At least in math, we can look at the specific questions and know whether he is getting it or not. I think the reading/writing areas are far murkier. My kid will write a paragraph and it will come home marked as a P. That's it. No comments on it. No feedback at all from the teacher, just a P at the top. I don't think that is right. In order to develop as a writer, you must get feedback. A P at the top of the page doesn't provide any meaningful feedback. This is especially true when, as the math example demonstrates, the P can mean anything from mediocre to excellent.

I understand your frustration, but I see this more as a teacher issue.
My 3rd grader gets letter grades AND the teacher writes notes on the work.
Honestly, no matter what the symbols(and all grading systems are symbols) if the teacher is not giving detailed feedback, then it will be difficult for a parent to ascertain a child's progress in any meaningful way.
Anonymous
Post 10/08/2013 10:30     Subject: Does anyone like Curriculum 2.0?
7:02, I agree with you! My issue is that my child - 4th grade- has figured out (or has been told, not sure which) that all kids in his class will get a P or an I. He notices that if he gets all the math problems correct, he gets a P AND that his friend who gets 5 problems wrong ALSO gets a P. Yes, we've explained that getting the problems correct and understanding the concepts is what matters but, puhleeze, what kind of message does it send to have both results lead to the same letter grade?

At least in math, we can look at the specific questions and know whether he is getting it or not. I think the reading/writing areas are far murkier. My kid will write a paragraph and it will come home marked as a P. That's it. No comments on it. No feedback at all from the teacher, just a P at the top. I don't think that is right. In order to develop as a writer, you must get feedback. A P at the top of the page doesn't provide any meaningful feedback. This is especially true when, as the math example demonstrates, the P can mean anything from mediocre to excellent.
Anonymous
Post 10/08/2013 07:02     Subject: Does anyone like Curriculum 2.0?
Anonymous wrote:Then ALL grading is crap, right?

I teach high school. I can honestly say that my B is oftentimes someone else's A. So while you see As on Lucy Loo Loo's report card, they can mean nothing, as not all teachers embed rigor into their instruction.

ugly truth

But your attitude is ignorant. It really is.

So instead of talking to your child about what s/he is learning, you focus on the fact that your kid will never earn an ES.

What would you rather see in your child? an "ability" to spit out facts or the resourcefulness to FIND an answer?

Embrace learning, honey! It never ends! But you seem to think that an ES is the END ALL!




Wow, not sure where you got all that. You seem very defensive and hostile. I didn't say all grading is crap; I said that a grading scale where all students got one of two grades was crap. See the difference? I said that the grades weren't giving me any feedback on what she is actually learning. I talk to her about class; do you really think you can get an accurate self-assessment of what a 10 year old knows by talking to her? Where did I talk about the ability to "spit out answers"? I said that as long as my child was learning I was happy.

I didn't say I was against 2.0; honestly it hasn't been around long enough for me to develop an opinion. I just said that the grading as implemented isn't giving me nearly as much feedback on how my child is doing as the grades last year. I'm sorry if that offends you so much that you feel the need to launch into a disjointed and petulant rant.

Anonymous
Post 10/08/2013 06:37     Subject: Does anyone like Curriculum 2.0?
Anonymous wrote:Then ALL grading is crap, right?

I teach high school. I can honestly say that my B is oftentimes someone else's A. So while you see As on Lucy Loo Loo's report card, they can mean nothing, as not all teachers embed rigor into their instruction.

ugly truth

But your attitude is ignorant. It really is.

So instead of talking to your child about what s/he is learning, you focus on the fact that your kid will never earn an ES.

What would you rather see in your child? an "ability" to spit out facts or the resourcefulness to FIND an answer?

Embrace learning, honey! It never ends! But you seem to think that an ES is the END ALL!







Under the previous curriculum, I didn't even get an interim report card, and the actual report card just gave O/S/I for each subject. Not much granularity there either...


We started in public last year for 4th and they still had grades. Plus, the math had an overall grade plus subsections. I've listened to their explanations numerous times, and I think this ES/P/I/N thing is crap since they don't seem to give ES or N. I've decided that as long as she seems to be learning I'm just going to go with the flow since grades in elementary don't really matter.

Teacher you were a bit mean, but the intention of your post was spot on.
Anonymous
Post 10/08/2013 06:17     Subject: Does anyone like Curriculum 2.0?
Then ALL grading is crap, right?

I teach high school. I can honestly say that my B is oftentimes someone else's A. So while you see As on Lucy Loo Loo's report card, they can mean nothing, as not all teachers embed rigor into their instruction.

ugly truth

But your attitude is ignorant. It really is.

So instead of talking to your child about what s/he is learning, you focus on the fact that your kid will never earn an ES.

What would you rather see in your child? an "ability" to spit out facts or the resourcefulness to FIND an answer?

Embrace learning, honey! It never ends! But you seem to think that an ES is the END ALL!







Under the previous curriculum, I didn't even get an interim report card, and the actual report card just gave O/S/I for each subject. Not much granularity there either...


We started in public last year for 4th and they still had grades. Plus, the math had an overall grade plus subsections. I've listened to their explanations numerous times, and I think this ES/P/I/N thing is crap since they don't seem to give ES or N. I've decided that as long as she seems to be learning I'm just going to go with the flow since grades in elementary don't really matter.
Anonymous
Post 10/07/2013 21:54     Subject: Does anyone like Curriculum 2.0?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
That's lovely, but doesn't actually address the issue at hand. I can tell you from first hand information that under the old system, we, as parents got much more meaningful information about how our children were doing.


That is not my experience. I find the information I'm getting about my child under 2.0 at least as meaningful as the information I got under the old system. And I'm comparing the same teachers at the same school.


I just got my first 2.0 interim report card. I really have no idea how my child is really doing. Mostly P with a couple of I. The school basically said they're not giving ES, nobody is getting N. Not enough granularity. I have no idea if my child really understands, understands just enough to be proficient, is getting an I, but that's to be expected half way through etc. I don't have any real beef with 2.0, but the report card is terrible.


If you get back returned papers, you'll see trends in weaknesses. Notice where the Is are, for example, in reading. Most Is in reading, social studies and science stem from not yet reaching an analytical stage. So while the student may be able to pull details from a text, does s/he reach beyond the text to draw conclusions? Math also has that component, but the Is my daughter received were in rounding numbers. There was a trend. So when her work comes home - with or w/o her data binder - we review it together. I'd rather see Is than straight Ps if I know she's missing the mark in an area.

Kids today do no have number sense; they don't know the reason behind 3x5. With 2.0, they are asked to justify a response by viewing it through multiple lenses.

In reading, they are asked to make inferences starting at a young age. Kids do it all the time w/o recognizing it, but b/c we fail as educators in the area of metacognition. So kids rarely label their thinking.

If you look at IB at the high school level, you'll find similarities, as 2.0 is IB - but at the elementary level. Look at the PYP elementary schools or the MYP middle schools. same philosophy

Thank You. -- This!