Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you will see most of the privates go back to test mandatory, following the lead of the Ivies. The past 5 years has been a wake up call. Whereas before the College Board was being castigated by equity/social science researchers, we now see that there is overwhelming evidence of the validity of the SAT.

Duke, UChicago, Vanderbilt will go back to being test mandatory. It will percolate down to schools in the rest of the T50.

I don’t know about that. Chicago has been test optional since 2018, and given their financial situation and how much of their prestige comes from their low admit rate, I don’t know if they can afford to go back to test-mandatory. Right now it’s an absolute refuge for low-scoring but prestige-hungry rich kids with good grades from expensive private schools. Going back to test-mandatory would blow up that model.

UChicago's prestige doesn't not come from its low acceptance rate. It is universally looked at as an IVY+ institution, even by the Ivies themselves.

Anonymous wrote:I know someone who went to Broad Run who said they read excepts of books instead of books. In AP Lit!

This came up because I was joking about the new Wuthering Heights adaptation and she said she never read it. She said they read excepts of books from a long list to prep for the AP exam.

So don’t assume it’s a certain kind of kid being underserved by the education system.

LOL this! We are in Silicon Valley. The physics, chem, and engineering classes are top notch. My oldest was building circuit boards in her courses while her cousin north of Sacramento was making a kitchen cutting board in his. Crazy difference in rigor and curriculum. However, math, english and history are a joke at our school. APUSH had zero required reading, tests were vocabulary and multiple choice with one or two short answer questions. The second semester was basic test prep from the college board resources. My youngest was so annoyed that the teacher, in an effort to bring up grades of the lower performing kids let everyone drop their worst test AND if you showed up for the AP test you got an extra 100% test score. My youngest ended up doing all his senior year classes in the local community college honors program.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. You can tell this thread is filled with liberals: the complete disdain for social mobility for anyone that isn’t them, the complete disregard for education that isn’t lily white/asian, and the inability to take themselves out of their screens and realize that most of the students going to these top high schools end up at an elite institution anyway is bothersome.

People used to consider that the kid from Bakersfield who is trying his best and is valedictorian deserves a shot at a good school, even if his record is a little bit behind, because he doesn’t have resources. But Nancy, whose kid is going to up and leave the state to go to CMU or some nice liberal arts college, NEEDS to bulldoze this kid’s only chance, because she thinks shes better than everyone else.


It’s really sad to watch.

I think you’re missing the point. College shouldn’t primarily be about social engineering. Kids who can’t do 5th grade math shouldn’t be at the top UC schools; there are many CA schools that would be a fit for them. I’m quite sure the valedictorian at Bakersfield deserves a shot at a UC even if their stats are a bit sub-par; do you think the top 30% do?

College admissions is literally social engineering.

Anonymous wrote:I think you will see most of the privates go back to test mandatory, following the lead of the Ivies. The past 5 years has been a wake up call. Whereas before the College Board was being castigated by equity/social science researchers, we now see that there is overwhelming evidence of the validity of the SAT.

Duke, UChicago, Vanderbilt will go back to being test mandatory. It will percolate down to schools in the rest of the T50.

I don’t know about that. Chicago has been test optional since 2018, and given their financial situation and how much of their prestige comes from their low admit rate, I don’t know if they can afford to go back to test-mandatory. Right now it’s an absolute refuge for low-scoring but prestige-hungry rich kids with good grades from expensive private schools. Going back to test-mandatory would blow up that model.

Anonymous wrote:I think you will see most of the privates go back to test mandatory, following the lead of the Ivies. The past 5 years has been a wake up call. Whereas before the College Board was being castigated by equity/social science researchers, we now see that there is overwhelming evidence of the validity of the SAT.

Duke, UChicago, Vanderbilt will go back to being test mandatory. It will percolate down to schools in the rest of the T50.

This is real but recent.

Up until COVID there the research consistently showed that GPW was a better predictor and that SAT scores were typically highly correlated to GPA except in the case of high scoring kids with low GPAs who likely had ADHD or another challenge. Since the out of control grade inflation of the past half dozen years has ruined GPA as an accurate metric reverting to testing seems to be the right path.

I think you will see most of the privates go back to test mandatory, following the lead of the Ivies. The past 5 years has been a wake up call. Whereas before the College Board was being castigated by equity/social science researchers, we now see that there is overwhelming evidence of the validity of the SAT.

Duke, UChicago, Vanderbilt will go back to being test mandatory. It will percolate down to schools in the rest of the T50.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It’s not just UCSD, it’s all of UC schools. UCB, UCLA. All of them.

Also the test optional portions of the test optional schools. Chicago, WashU, Vandy, Duke, Columbia. Anywhere between 30% to 50% students are like those at UCSD.

This! There are so many more competent math students at UCSD (a large school where even today, without the SAT, most freshmen place into Calculus or beyond) than at these small private schools that are admitting a substantial fraction of the class test-optional and then steering them into majors that don’t require math.

There’s a lot of people on this web site who seem to think 8th grade math matters if it’s a way to keep poor people down, but not if it might get in the way of a rich kid studying history at an expensive private school.

I know someone who went to Broad Run who said they read excepts of books instead of books. In AP Lit!

This came up because I was joking about the new Wuthering Heights adaptation and she said she never read it. She said they read excepts of books from a long list to prep for the AP exam.

So don’t assume it’s a certain kind of kid being underserved by the education system.

Florida's K-12 students perform better than California's, despite spending half as much.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-11-30/newsom-desantis-debate-education-freedom-contrasts

Critics call Florida’s approach punitive and simplistic, while supporters consider it to be clear and meaningful. Every school gets a letter grade — just like on a student report card — based on annual state scores. Schools get good marks based on high performance or notable improvement or both.

Moreover, part of a teacher’s evaluation is based on student standardized test scores, something not required in California.
Florida students can be held back in elementary and middle school if they don’t meet certain learning requirements.

In California it is more typical to keep students with their age group and try to catch them up.

California’s philosophy is to give extra money and services to schools “in need” — with need determined by test scores as well as by whether students live in poverty or are learning English or are in the foster-care system. The state then tracks progress in test scores, attendance and suspensions. Schools and districts are not singled out publicly for failing to raise academic achievement.

This is happening at UCLA also. They are just a couple of years behind UCSD. California's high schools are declining, largely due to demographic/lower SES changes. As the quality of the students goes down since UCLA selects proportionately by high school, so does the academic quality of its students. This was somewhat checked by use of SAT, but that has been banned.

Anonymous wrote:Wow. You can tell this thread is filled with liberals: the complete disdain for social mobility for anyone that isn’t them, the complete disregard for education that isn’t lily white/asian, and the inability to take themselves out of their screens and realize that most of the students going to these top high schools end up at an elite institution anyway is bothersome.

People used to consider that the kid from Bakersfield who is trying his best and is valedictorian deserves a shot at a good school, even if his record is a little bit behind, because he doesn’t have resources. But Nancy, whose kid is going to up and leave the state to go to CMU or some nice liberal arts college, NEEDS to bulldoze this kid’s only chance, because she thinks shes better than everyone else.


It’s really sad to watch.

I think you’re missing the point. College shouldn’t primarily be about social engineering. Kids who can’t do 5th grade math shouldn’t be at the top UC schools; there are many CA schools that would be a fit for them. I’m quite sure the valedictorian at Bakersfield deserves a shot at a UC even if their stats are a bit sub-par; do you think the top 30% do?

Wow. You can tell this thread is filled with liberals: the complete disdain for social mobility for anyone that isn’t them, the complete disregard for education that isn’t lily white/asian, and the inability to take themselves out of their screens and realize that most of the students going to these top high schools end up at an elite institution anyway is bothersome.

People used to consider that the kid from Bakersfield who is trying his best and is valedictorian deserves a shot at a good school, even if his record is a little bit behind, because he doesn’t have resources. But Nancy, whose kid is going to up and leave the state to go to CMU or some nice liberal arts college, NEEDS to bulldoze this kid’s only chance, because she thinks shes better than everyone else.


It’s really sad to watch.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It’s not just UCSD, it’s all of UC schools. UCB, UCLA. All of them.

Also the test optional portions of the test optional schools. Chicago, WashU, Vandy, Duke, Columbia. Anywhere between 30% to 50% students are like those at UCSD.

Those private schools at least use the SAT. The UC's have a ground up commitment to institutional equity. I doubt the people that are in charge care that its students can't do third grade math. They care more about the distribution of equity for the population they serve.

Anonymous wrote:

It’s not just UCSD, it’s all of UC schools. UCB, UCLA. All of them.

Also the test optional portions of the test optional schools. Chicago, WashU, Vandy, Duke, Columbia. Anywhere between 30% to 50% students are like those at UCSD.

Anonymous wrote:Scary. Hundreds of college students who can't do 5th grade math.

Diversity is our strength.