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Anonymous wrote:If anyone wants to understand why this country doesn't build ANYTHING any more (high speed rail, infrastructure, clean energy, new cities) you just have to listen to these NIMBYs.

Just so disappointing to see a bunch of old people hold the country hostage while more and more people struggle. Typical boomers.

THERE IS A TON OF CHEAP LAND IN THE COUNTY...just not in Bethesda or Chevy Chase.

Plenty of middle class homes under 750k. People just think because they make 125k a year they are too good for them

The further away homes are from jobs, the more transportation infrastructure is needed. The NIMBY's in this country don't want to expand roads or public transportation, either.

By all means, go to meetings saying you want to expand into the ag reserve, build out light rail and bus, and widen Darnestown Rd, Georgia Ave, University Blvd, and Connecticut Ave. See how much support you get.

If you’d been paying attention, you’d know that upcounty residents, who YIMBYs often paint as being very NIMBY, want more roads. They really wanted M-83 but the YIMBYs on the council voted against it. On top of that, the YIMBYs have bled infrastructure funding with their tax breaks for developers.

The downcounty residents are the NIMBY's.. Look how hard they fight the purple line.

Case in point: The purple line is getting built. Another YIMBY win.

The purple line was tremendously delayed.

And look at M-83. Or the CCT. Or the Montrose Parkway extension.

There hasn't been any significant change in zoning to encourage increasing density at scale. This ZTA demonstrates that quite well. You're up in arms over a relatively small increase in density in only about 1% of the lots in the county.

None of this changes the fact that the YIMBYs have been on the winning side of every major land use vote at the council.

The only thing I’m up in arms about is YIMBYs’ refusal to take any responsibility for the state of the county’s economy and housing market. If you keep winning you actually have to fix things. Smart growth hasn’t fixed the housing market or the budget or economic growth or any of the other things that have been promised over the years. It’s made them worse.

The county hasn't pursued growth. Everything gets wrapped up in battles limiting what ultimately happens. So we just end up with bits of infill development where there happens to be land, some redevelopment of strip malls, and some sprawl mostly up 270.

Look at this case. We started with something that was already limited in scope and density, and then the proposal was watered down to the point that very few lots can take advantage of the changes.

I agree that the county hasn’t pursued growth. YIMBY policies have rewarded rent seekers, so the market seeks rents instead of growth.

I don't even believe there are YIMBY people who do not have a financial stake in the game. I know a few big real estate developers and they live in big custom homes in upper MoCo, Great Falls, Potomac or even in DC. They aren't sitting next to you at the BCC back to school night. They may own land/homes in your area, but that's for the full purpose of resell and development. It's a cover and a farce. They really do not care about the long term livability of a neighborhood. They have plan B & C.

Hmm, I'm a YIMBY homeowner. I guess I'm a shill because I want more neighbors to experience our great city?

You might come to regret your support for this one day when the MOCOs poorly thought out land use reforms result in a dispensary right next to your house.

"Let's build a small apartment building in a handful of areas"

"YOU ARE TuRnIn MY HoUse INTO A MetH LAB!!!!!"

"Let's keep the detached SFH zoning upon which residents relied when making their highly consequential and difficult from which to extricate life decisions. Incentivised increased construction rates and crowding present burdens to current residents, and infill at increased densities without adequate infrastructure presents burdens for new and old, alike. And it's not like we're compensating any of those in the 'handful of areas' who will bear the brunt."

"YOU ARE FEARMONGERING RACISTS WHO DON'T DESERVE ANY CONSIDERATION! WHAT ABOUT THE POOR, POOR NURSES AND TEACHERS??!!" (...whom this won't really help, but pay no attention to that!)

You people keep yapping about "infrastructure". You do realize we know how to build things in this country, right?

Jesus, get over it. More sewer/power/dog catchers are possible, stop worrying about tit.

Or...now follow, here...or, they could actually require the infrastructure be coincident with the development.

Oh, you’ll strike a nerve here. They hate any preposterous talk of planning for growth. They just want to, like, let the growth happen, man. The schools will totally just get planned organically!

YIMBY are the left-wing version of trickle-down-economics. No evidence to support their claims that eliminating zoning will magically solve all of societies issues, but they fervently believe that allowing the wealthy developers to do whatever they want without contributing to funding infrastructure will benefit society. Free-markets don't work for public safety, they don't work for schools, healthcare, or infrastructure planning. Eliminating zoning is just an another form of crony capitalism that benefits the ultra-wealthy mostly at the expense of normal people.

+1. YIMBYs socialize costs and privatize profit. YIMBY polices over the past 25 years have resulted in a massive transfer of wealth from the middle class to the super rich and from young people to old people while producing very slow growth.

Is this a joke? Please tell me you are joking.

The NIMBYs are the reason we are in this mess kid. Why do you think old people are hoarding 1.5 million dollar houses while the middle class can't find an apartment?

You are so out of touch.

I’m pretty sure that a developer sitting on a $22 million vacant lot with an approved plan for a high rise is having a bigger impact on housing supply than someone living in one single family house (which is, you know, the main purpose of a house, giving someone a place to live).

The simple fact is that the NIMBYs haven’t made policy here. The YIMBYs, like Andrew Friedson, Hans Riemer, George Leventhal, Casey Anderson, and Artie Harris have been on the winning side of all the votes.

It's amazing what NIMBYism will do to people! You all seem to think you are the most qualified people to determine how much "infrastructure" is needed for *anything*. More so than the experts and officials who... have that job.

Amazing.

Personally I just rely on the student generation estimates that MCPS and Planning have developed, even though they usually undershoot. The county hasn’t been delivering enough seats. That’s an objective fact. Also it’s planning that decided to second guess MCPS on what level of school overcrowding was too much, because they think being an urban planner makes someone an expert in everything when actually it just means you couldn’t pass the advanced math needed for a degree in architecture or economics.

It makes 0 economic sense to preemptively build a school or whatever other type of "infrastructure" before apartments are built. It takes years for the need to materialize, if at all. This is not a serious discussion at all. If a county needs a larger school, one will be built. Yes, it will take time and it will be imperfect. But guess what? That is literally how it has happened in this country for hundreds of years. You and your special little neighborhood are not unique.


Neighborhoods and schools change, more at 11.

It makes all kinds of sense, economic and otherwise. It may not make sense for the develppment industry, of course.

And the "preemptively" straw man is decidedly old hat in these discussions. The idea, much like the one they conveniently discarded with accessory dwelling units, is simply to ensure the local schools are not overcrowded and that the local infrastructure/public services are not overtaxed. That can mean holding off on development until the requisite school (and other) infrastructure is programmed and funded to be available coincident with the need when increased resident density arrives, not some if-you-build-it-they-will-come infrastructure cart before the population horse.

Why should the failures of the past to ensure adequate public facilities and services guide the present? That's like saying, "Well, we never had a country without a monarch before, so why should we push for a democracy?"

As for "If a county needs a larger school, one will be built," we can only laugh at the naivety (or, more likely, jaundiced presentation) of that statement. Just look around at the lumpy overcapacities and whacky boundaries that have been allowed to develop here and elsewhere due to under-investment, poor placement and the terrible afterthought planning that tends to dictate such outcomes. Indeed, it is not unique, but as it is clearly bad, there's no basis in the lack of uniqueness observation to support continuation of such practices.

But I suppose providing good living conditions, both for current residents and those moving in, shouldn't get in the way of "progress..."

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Anonymous wrote:If anyone wants to understand why this country doesn't build ANYTHING any more (high speed rail, infrastructure, clean energy, new cities) you just have to listen to these NIMBYs.

Just so disappointing to see a bunch of old people hold the country hostage while more and more people struggle. Typical boomers.

THERE IS A TON OF CHEAP LAND IN THE COUNTY...just not in Bethesda or Chevy Chase.

Plenty of middle class homes under 750k. People just think because they make 125k a year they are too good for them

The further away homes are from jobs, the more transportation infrastructure is needed. The NIMBY's in this country don't want to expand roads or public transportation, either.

By all means, go to meetings saying you want to expand into the ag reserve, build out light rail and bus, and widen Darnestown Rd, Georgia Ave, University Blvd, and Connecticut Ave. See how much support you get.

If you’d been paying attention, you’d know that upcounty residents, who YIMBYs often paint as being very NIMBY, want more roads. They really wanted M-83 but the YIMBYs on the council voted against it. On top of that, the YIMBYs have bled infrastructure funding with their tax breaks for developers.

The downcounty residents are the NIMBY's.. Look how hard they fight the purple line.

Case in point: The purple line is getting built. Another YIMBY win.

The purple line was tremendously delayed.

And look at M-83. Or the CCT. Or the Montrose Parkway extension.

There hasn't been any significant change in zoning to encourage increasing density at scale. This ZTA demonstrates that quite well. You're up in arms over a relatively small increase in density in only about 1% of the lots in the county.

None of this changes the fact that the YIMBYs have been on the winning side of every major land use vote at the council.

The only thing I’m up in arms about is YIMBYs’ refusal to take any responsibility for the state of the county’s economy and housing market. If you keep winning you actually have to fix things. Smart growth hasn’t fixed the housing market or the budget or economic growth or any of the other things that have been promised over the years. It’s made them worse.

The county hasn't pursued growth. Everything gets wrapped up in battles limiting what ultimately happens. So we just end up with bits of infill development where there happens to be land, some redevelopment of strip malls, and some sprawl mostly up 270.

Look at this case. We started with something that was already limited in scope and density, and then the proposal was watered down to the point that very few lots can take advantage of the changes.

I agree that the county hasn’t pursued growth. YIMBY policies have rewarded rent seekers, so the market seeks rents instead of growth.

I don't even believe there are YIMBY people who do not have a financial stake in the game. I know a few big real estate developers and they live in big custom homes in upper MoCo, Great Falls, Potomac or even in DC. They aren't sitting next to you at the BCC back to school night. They may own land/homes in your area, but that's for the full purpose of resell and development. It's a cover and a farce. They really do not care about the long term livability of a neighborhood. They have plan B & C.

Hmm, I'm a YIMBY homeowner. I guess I'm a shill because I want more neighbors to experience our great city?

You might come to regret your support for this one day when the MOCOs poorly thought out land use reforms result in a dispensary right next to your house.

"Let's build a small apartment building in a handful of areas"

"YOU ARE TuRnIn MY HoUse INTO A MetH LAB!!!!!"

"Let's keep the detached SFH zoning upon which residents relied when making their highly consequential and difficult from which to extricate life decisions. Incentivised increased construction rates and crowding present burdens to current residents, and infill at increased densities without adequate infrastructure presents burdens for new and old, alike. And it's not like we're compensating any of those in the 'handful of areas' who will bear the brunt."

"YOU ARE FEARMONGERING RACISTS WHO DON'T DESERVE ANY CONSIDERATION! WHAT ABOUT THE POOR, POOR NURSES AND TEACHERS??!!" (...whom this won't really help, but pay no attention to that!)

The "I got mine" attitude in this is striking.

The "we'll take yours" of those pushing this is even more striking.

The zoning changes wouldn't involve taking land. But your sprawl proposal would require taking homes via eminent domain to build all the roads into DC it would need.

And surely you wouldn't fight a new 6 lane highway going in next to your house.

It's the reasonable expectation of the surrounds, which imputes value to living situations in affected neighborhoods/areas, that gets taken by this kind of zoning change. Economists might term this an "externality," as there is no accounting for it in the rationale supporting the decision. And the social good rationale that was used to make it seem like such a sacrifice should be expected was properly called out as bunk by three of the councilmembers and the county executive, to boot.

New construction in greenfield areas married with truly efficient transport to the nearest 2 mass transit stations and with planned, co-located commercial/employment centers would allow for much lower need to get to DC...or Tyson's. It's been pointed out as unlikely that the ZTA will mean that those occupying the new units wouldn't be adding to the same traffic -- it's not like they've made Wheaton a hub of employment, and anyone with the $ to buy the scant percentage of "workforce housing" units (likely 1 bedrooms in apartment buildings or the runt of a quadplex, each just barely affordable to those making 120% AMI and then likely attracting those making more) will be going carless or taking the heaps of extra time that the bus presents for door-to-door.

Where are there greenfield areas large enough to accomodate significant numbers of single family homes and close enough to metro to strongly encourage transit use?

You missed the "truly efficient transport to the nearest 2 mass transit stations" bit. Doesn't need to be at a Metro, just with efficient transport to Metro or the like. And it doesn't need to encourage that as much if there are the co-located employment centers mentioned.

But there won't be, because employers don't want to be in the middle of nowhere, either. At least, not employers that would be hiring people that could afford new homes.

Of course! Why didn't we think of that?! Tyson's, the Dulles corridor and Ashburn have always been center-city!

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Anonymous wrote:If anyone wants to understand why this country doesn't build ANYTHING any more (high speed rail, infrastructure, clean energy, new cities) you just have to listen to these NIMBYs.

Just so disappointing to see a bunch of old people hold the country hostage while more and more people struggle. Typical boomers.

THERE IS A TON OF CHEAP LAND IN THE COUNTY...just not in Bethesda or Chevy Chase.

Plenty of middle class homes under 750k. People just think because they make 125k a year they are too good for them

The further away homes are from jobs, the more transportation infrastructure is needed. The NIMBY's in this country don't want to expand roads or public transportation, either.

By all means, go to meetings saying you want to expand into the ag reserve, build out light rail and bus, and widen Darnestown Rd, Georgia Ave, University Blvd, and Connecticut Ave. See how much support you get.

If you’d been paying attention, you’d know that upcounty residents, who YIMBYs often paint as being very NIMBY, want more roads. They really wanted M-83 but the YIMBYs on the council voted against it. On top of that, the YIMBYs have bled infrastructure funding with their tax breaks for developers.

The downcounty residents are the NIMBY's.. Look how hard they fight the purple line.

Case in point: The purple line is getting built. Another YIMBY win.

The purple line was tremendously delayed.

And look at M-83. Or the CCT. Or the Montrose Parkway extension.

There hasn't been any significant change in zoning to encourage increasing density at scale. This ZTA demonstrates that quite well. You're up in arms over a relatively small increase in density in only about 1% of the lots in the county.

None of this changes the fact that the YIMBYs have been on the winning side of every major land use vote at the council.

The only thing I’m up in arms about is YIMBYs’ refusal to take any responsibility for the state of the county’s economy and housing market. If you keep winning you actually have to fix things. Smart growth hasn’t fixed the housing market or the budget or economic growth or any of the other things that have been promised over the years. It’s made them worse.

The county hasn't pursued growth. Everything gets wrapped up in battles limiting what ultimately happens. So we just end up with bits of infill development where there happens to be land, some redevelopment of strip malls, and some sprawl mostly up 270.

Look at this case. We started with something that was already limited in scope and density, and then the proposal was watered down to the point that very few lots can take advantage of the changes.

I agree that the county hasn’t pursued growth. YIMBY policies have rewarded rent seekers, so the market seeks rents instead of growth.

I don't even believe there are YIMBY people who do not have a financial stake in the game. I know a few big real estate developers and they live in big custom homes in upper MoCo, Great Falls, Potomac or even in DC. They aren't sitting next to you at the BCC back to school night. They may own land/homes in your area, but that's for the full purpose of resell and development. It's a cover and a farce. They really do not care about the long term livability of a neighborhood. They have plan B & C.

Hmm, I'm a YIMBY homeowner. I guess I'm a shill because I want more neighbors to experience our great city?

You might come to regret your support for this one day when the MOCOs poorly thought out land use reforms result in a dispensary right next to your house.

"Let's build a small apartment building in a handful of areas"

"YOU ARE TuRnIn MY HoUse INTO A MetH LAB!!!!!"

"Let's keep the detached SFH zoning upon which residents relied when making their highly consequential and difficult from which to extricate life decisions. Incentivised increased construction rates and crowding present burdens to current residents, and infill at increased densities without adequate infrastructure presents burdens for new and old, alike. And it's not like we're compensating any of those in the 'handful of areas' who will bear the brunt."

"YOU ARE FEARMONGERING RACISTS WHO DON'T DESERVE ANY CONSIDERATION! WHAT ABOUT THE POOR, POOR NURSES AND TEACHERS??!!" (...whom this won't really help, but pay no attention to that!)

The "I got mine" attitude in this is striking.

The "we'll take yours" of those pushing this is even more striking.

The zoning changes wouldn't involve taking land. But your sprawl proposal would require taking homes via eminent domain to build all the roads into DC it would need.

And surely you wouldn't fight a new 6 lane highway going in next to your house.

It's the reasonable expectation of the surrounds, which imputes value to living situations in affected neighborhoods/areas, that gets taken by this kind of zoning change. Economists might term this an "externality," as there is no accounting for it in the rationale supporting the decision. And the social good rationale that was used to make it seem like such a sacrifice should be expected was properly called out as bunk by three of the councilmembers and the county executive, to boot.

New construction in greenfield areas married with truly efficient transport to the nearest 2 mass transit stations and with planned, co-located commercial/employment centers would allow for much lower need to get to DC...or Tyson's. It's been pointed out as unlikely that the ZTA will mean that those occupying the new units wouldn't be adding to the same traffic -- it's not like they've made Wheaton a hub of employment, and anyone with the $ to buy the scant percentage of "workforce housing" units (likely 1 bedrooms in apartment buildings or the runt of a quadplex, each just barely affordable to those making 120% AMI and then likely attracting those making more) will be going carless or taking the heaps of extra time that the bus presents for door-to-door.

Where are there greenfield areas large enough to accomodate significant numbers of single family homes and close enough to metro to strongly encourage transit use?

You missed the "truly efficient transport to the nearest 2 mass transit stations" bit. Doesn't need to be at a Metro, just with efficient transport to Metro or the like. And it doesn't need to encourage that as much if there are the co-located employment centers mentioned.

But there won't be, because employers don't want to be in the middle of nowhere, either. At least, not employers that would be hiring people that could afford new homes.

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Anonymous wrote:If anyone wants to understand why this country doesn't build ANYTHING any more (high speed rail, infrastructure, clean energy, new cities) you just have to listen to these NIMBYs.

Just so disappointing to see a bunch of old people hold the country hostage while more and more people struggle. Typical boomers.

THERE IS A TON OF CHEAP LAND IN THE COUNTY...just not in Bethesda or Chevy Chase.

Plenty of middle class homes under 750k. People just think because they make 125k a year they are too good for them

The further away homes are from jobs, the more transportation infrastructure is needed. The NIMBY's in this country don't want to expand roads or public transportation, either.

By all means, go to meetings saying you want to expand into the ag reserve, build out light rail and bus, and widen Darnestown Rd, Georgia Ave, University Blvd, and Connecticut Ave. See how much support you get.

If you’d been paying attention, you’d know that upcounty residents, who YIMBYs often paint as being very NIMBY, want more roads. They really wanted M-83 but the YIMBYs on the council voted against it. On top of that, the YIMBYs have bled infrastructure funding with their tax breaks for developers.

The downcounty residents are the NIMBY's.. Look how hard they fight the purple line.

Case in point: The purple line is getting built. Another YIMBY win.

The purple line was tremendously delayed.

And look at M-83. Or the CCT. Or the Montrose Parkway extension.

There hasn't been any significant change in zoning to encourage increasing density at scale. This ZTA demonstrates that quite well. You're up in arms over a relatively small increase in density in only about 1% of the lots in the county.

None of this changes the fact that the YIMBYs have been on the winning side of every major land use vote at the council.

The only thing I’m up in arms about is YIMBYs’ refusal to take any responsibility for the state of the county’s economy and housing market. If you keep winning you actually have to fix things. Smart growth hasn’t fixed the housing market or the budget or economic growth or any of the other things that have been promised over the years. It’s made them worse.

The county hasn't pursued growth. Everything gets wrapped up in battles limiting what ultimately happens. So we just end up with bits of infill development where there happens to be land, some redevelopment of strip malls, and some sprawl mostly up 270.

Look at this case. We started with something that was already limited in scope and density, and then the proposal was watered down to the point that very few lots can take advantage of the changes.

I agree that the county hasn’t pursued growth. YIMBY policies have rewarded rent seekers, so the market seeks rents instead of growth.

I don't even believe there are YIMBY people who do not have a financial stake in the game. I know a few big real estate developers and they live in big custom homes in upper MoCo, Great Falls, Potomac or even in DC. They aren't sitting next to you at the BCC back to school night. They may own land/homes in your area, but that's for the full purpose of resell and development. It's a cover and a farce. They really do not care about the long term livability of a neighborhood. They have plan B & C.

Hmm, I'm a YIMBY homeowner. I guess I'm a shill because I want more neighbors to experience our great city?

You might come to regret your support for this one day when the MOCOs poorly thought out land use reforms result in a dispensary right next to your house.

"Let's build a small apartment building in a handful of areas"

"YOU ARE TuRnIn MY HoUse INTO A MetH LAB!!!!!"

"Let's keep the detached SFH zoning upon which residents relied when making their highly consequential and difficult from which to extricate life decisions. Incentivised increased construction rates and crowding present burdens to current residents, and infill at increased densities without adequate infrastructure presents burdens for new and old, alike. And it's not like we're compensating any of those in the 'handful of areas' who will bear the brunt."

"YOU ARE FEARMONGERING RACISTS WHO DON'T DESERVE ANY CONSIDERATION! WHAT ABOUT THE POOR, POOR NURSES AND TEACHERS??!!" (...whom this won't really help, but pay no attention to that!)

The "I got mine" attitude in this is striking.

The "we'll take yours" of those pushing this is even more striking.

The zoning changes wouldn't involve taking land. But your sprawl proposal would require taking homes via eminent domain to build all the roads into DC it would need.

And surely you wouldn't fight a new 6 lane highway going in next to your house.

It's the reasonable expectation of the surrounds, which imputes value to living situations in affected neighborhoods/areas, that gets taken by this kind of zoning change. Economists might term this an "externality," as there is no accounting for it in the rationale supporting the decision. And the social good rationale that was used to make it seem like such a sacrifice should be expected was properly called out as bunk by three of the councilmembers and the county executive, to boot.

New construction in greenfield areas married with truly efficient transport to the nearest 2 mass transit stations and with planned, co-located commercial/employment centers would allow for much lower need to get to DC...or Tyson's. It's been pointed out as unlikely that the ZTA will mean that those occupying the new units wouldn't be adding to the same traffic -- it's not like they've made Wheaton a hub of employment, and anyone with the $ to buy the scant percentage of "workforce housing" units (likely 1 bedrooms in apartment buildings or the runt of a quadplex, each just barely affordable to those making 120% AMI and then likely attracting those making more) will be going carless or taking the heaps of extra time that the bus presents for door-to-door.

Where are there greenfield areas large enough to accomodate significant numbers of single family homes and close enough to metro to strongly encourage transit use?

You missed the "truly efficient transport to the nearest 2 mass transit stations" bit. Doesn't need to be at a Metro, just with efficient transport to Metro or the like. And it doesn't need to encourage that as much if there are the co-located employment centers mentioned.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If anyone wants to understand why this country doesn't build ANYTHING any more (high speed rail, infrastructure, clean energy, new cities) you just have to listen to these NIMBYs.

Just so disappointing to see a bunch of old people hold the country hostage while more and more people struggle. Typical boomers.

THERE IS A TON OF CHEAP LAND IN THE COUNTY...just not in Bethesda or Chevy Chase.

Plenty of middle class homes under 750k. People just think because they make 125k a year they are too good for them

The further away homes are from jobs, the more transportation infrastructure is needed. The NIMBY's in this country don't want to expand roads or public transportation, either.

By all means, go to meetings saying you want to expand into the ag reserve, build out light rail and bus, and widen Darnestown Rd, Georgia Ave, University Blvd, and Connecticut Ave. See how much support you get.

If you’d been paying attention, you’d know that upcounty residents, who YIMBYs often paint as being very NIMBY, want more roads. They really wanted M-83 but the YIMBYs on the council voted against it. On top of that, the YIMBYs have bled infrastructure funding with their tax breaks for developers.

The downcounty residents are the NIMBY's.. Look how hard they fight the purple line.

Case in point: The purple line is getting built. Another YIMBY win.

The purple line was tremendously delayed.

And look at M-83. Or the CCT. Or the Montrose Parkway extension.

There hasn't been any significant change in zoning to encourage increasing density at scale. This ZTA demonstrates that quite well. You're up in arms over a relatively small increase in density in only about 1% of the lots in the county.

None of this changes the fact that the YIMBYs have been on the winning side of every major land use vote at the council.

The only thing I’m up in arms about is YIMBYs’ refusal to take any responsibility for the state of the county’s economy and housing market. If you keep winning you actually have to fix things. Smart growth hasn’t fixed the housing market or the budget or economic growth or any of the other things that have been promised over the years. It’s made them worse.

The county hasn't pursued growth. Everything gets wrapped up in battles limiting what ultimately happens. So we just end up with bits of infill development where there happens to be land, some redevelopment of strip malls, and some sprawl mostly up 270.

Look at this case. We started with something that was already limited in scope and density, and then the proposal was watered down to the point that very few lots can take advantage of the changes.

I agree that the county hasn’t pursued growth. YIMBY policies have rewarded rent seekers, so the market seeks rents instead of growth.

I don't even believe there are YIMBY people who do not have a financial stake in the game. I know a few big real estate developers and they live in big custom homes in upper MoCo, Great Falls, Potomac or even in DC. They aren't sitting next to you at the BCC back to school night. They may own land/homes in your area, but that's for the full purpose of resell and development. It's a cover and a farce. They really do not care about the long term livability of a neighborhood. They have plan B & C.

Hmm, I'm a YIMBY homeowner. I guess I'm a shill because I want more neighbors to experience our great city?

You might come to regret your support for this one day when the MOCOs poorly thought out land use reforms result in a dispensary right next to your house.

"Let's build a small apartment building in a handful of areas"

"YOU ARE TuRnIn MY HoUse INTO A MetH LAB!!!!!"

"Let's keep the detached SFH zoning upon which residents relied when making their highly consequential and difficult from which to extricate life decisions. Incentivised increased construction rates and crowding present burdens to current residents, and infill at increased densities without adequate infrastructure presents burdens for new and old, alike. And it's not like we're compensating any of those in the 'handful of areas' who will bear the brunt."

"YOU ARE FEARMONGERING RACISTS WHO DON'T DESERVE ANY CONSIDERATION! WHAT ABOUT THE POOR, POOR NURSES AND TEACHERS??!!" (...whom this won't really help, but pay no attention to that!)

The "I got mine" attitude in this is striking.

The "we'll take yours" of those pushing this is even more striking.

The zoning changes wouldn't involve taking land. But your sprawl proposal would require taking homes via eminent domain to build all the roads into DC it would need.

And surely you wouldn't fight a new 6 lane highway going in next to your house.

It's the reasonable expectation of the surrounds, which imputes value to living situations in affected neighborhoods/areas, that gets taken by this kind of zoning change. Economists might term this an "externality," as there is no accounting for it in the rationale supporting the decision. And the social good rationale that was used to make it seem like such a sacrifice should be expected was properly called out as bunk by three of the councilmembers and the county executive, to boot.

New construction in greenfield areas married with truly efficient transport to the nearest 2 mass transit stations and with planned, co-located commercial/employment centers would allow for much lower need to get to DC...or Tyson's. It's been pointed out as unlikely that the ZTA will mean that those occupying the new units wouldn't be adding to the same traffic -- it's not like they've made Wheaton a hub of employment, and anyone with the $ to buy the scant percentage of "workforce housing" units (likely 1 bedrooms in apartment buildings or the runt of a quadplex, each just barely affordable to those making 120% AMI and then likely attracting those making more) will be going carless or taking the heaps of extra time that the bus presents for door-to-door.

Where are there greenfield areas large enough to accomodate significant numbers of single family homes and close enough to metro to strongly encourage transit use?

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Anonymous wrote:If anyone wants to understand why this country doesn't build ANYTHING any more (high speed rail, infrastructure, clean energy, new cities) you just have to listen to these NIMBYs.

Just so disappointing to see a bunch of old people hold the country hostage while more and more people struggle. Typical boomers.

THERE IS A TON OF CHEAP LAND IN THE COUNTY...just not in Bethesda or Chevy Chase.

Plenty of middle class homes under 750k. People just think because they make 125k a year they are too good for them

The further away homes are from jobs, the more transportation infrastructure is needed. The NIMBY's in this country don't want to expand roads or public transportation, either.

By all means, go to meetings saying you want to expand into the ag reserve, build out light rail and bus, and widen Darnestown Rd, Georgia Ave, University Blvd, and Connecticut Ave. See how much support you get.

If you’d been paying attention, you’d know that upcounty residents, who YIMBYs often paint as being very NIMBY, want more roads. They really wanted M-83 but the YIMBYs on the council voted against it. On top of that, the YIMBYs have bled infrastructure funding with their tax breaks for developers.

The downcounty residents are the NIMBY's.. Look how hard they fight the purple line.

Case in point: The purple line is getting built. Another YIMBY win.

The purple line was tremendously delayed.

And look at M-83. Or the CCT. Or the Montrose Parkway extension.

There hasn't been any significant change in zoning to encourage increasing density at scale. This ZTA demonstrates that quite well. You're up in arms over a relatively small increase in density in only about 1% of the lots in the county.

None of this changes the fact that the YIMBYs have been on the winning side of every major land use vote at the council.

The only thing I’m up in arms about is YIMBYs’ refusal to take any responsibility for the state of the county’s economy and housing market. If you keep winning you actually have to fix things. Smart growth hasn’t fixed the housing market or the budget or economic growth or any of the other things that have been promised over the years. It’s made them worse.

The county hasn't pursued growth. Everything gets wrapped up in battles limiting what ultimately happens. So we just end up with bits of infill development where there happens to be land, some redevelopment of strip malls, and some sprawl mostly up 270.

Look at this case. We started with something that was already limited in scope and density, and then the proposal was watered down to the point that very few lots can take advantage of the changes.

I agree that the county hasn’t pursued growth. YIMBY policies have rewarded rent seekers, so the market seeks rents instead of growth.

I don't even believe there are YIMBY people who do not have a financial stake in the game. I know a few big real estate developers and they live in big custom homes in upper MoCo, Great Falls, Potomac or even in DC. They aren't sitting next to you at the BCC back to school night. They may own land/homes in your area, but that's for the full purpose of resell and development. It's a cover and a farce. They really do not care about the long term livability of a neighborhood. They have plan B & C.

Hmm, I'm a YIMBY homeowner. I guess I'm a shill because I want more neighbors to experience our great city?

You might come to regret your support for this one day when the MOCOs poorly thought out land use reforms result in a dispensary right next to your house.

"Let's build a small apartment building in a handful of areas"

"YOU ARE TuRnIn MY HoUse INTO A MetH LAB!!!!!"

"Let's keep the detached SFH zoning upon which residents relied when making their highly consequential and difficult from which to extricate life decisions. Incentivised increased construction rates and crowding present burdens to current residents, and infill at increased densities without adequate infrastructure presents burdens for new and old, alike. And it's not like we're compensating any of those in the 'handful of areas' who will bear the brunt."

"YOU ARE FEARMONGERING RACISTS WHO DON'T DESERVE ANY CONSIDERATION! WHAT ABOUT THE POOR, POOR NURSES AND TEACHERS??!!" (...whom this won't really help, but pay no attention to that!)

The "I got mine" attitude in this is striking.

The "we'll take yours" of those pushing this is even more striking.

The zoning changes wouldn't involve taking land. But your sprawl proposal would require taking homes via eminent domain to build all the roads into DC it would need.

And surely you wouldn't fight a new 6 lane highway going in next to your house.

It's the reasonable expectation of the surrounds, which imputes value to living situations in affected neighborhoods/areas, that gets taken by this kind of zoning change. Economists might term this an "externality," as there is no accounting for it in the rationale supporting the decision. And the social good rationale that was used to make it seem like such a sacrifice should be expected was properly called out as bunk by three of the councilmembers and the county executive, to boot.

New construction in greenfield areas married with truly efficient transport to the nearest 2 mass transit stations and with planned, co-located commercial/employment centers would allow for much lower need to get to DC...or Tyson's. It's been pointed out as unlikely that the ZTA will mean that those occupying the new units wouldn't be adding to the same traffic -- it's not like they've made Wheaton a hub of employment, and anyone with the $ to buy the scant percentage of "workforce housing" units (likely 1 bedrooms in apartment buildings or the runt of a quadplex, each just barely affordable to those making 120% AMI and then likely attracting those making more) will be going carless or taking the heaps of extra time that the bus presents for door-to-door.

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Anonymous wrote:If anyone wants to understand why this country doesn't build ANYTHING any more (high speed rail, infrastructure, clean energy, new cities) you just have to listen to these NIMBYs.

Just so disappointing to see a bunch of old people hold the country hostage while more and more people struggle. Typical boomers.

THERE IS A TON OF CHEAP LAND IN THE COUNTY...just not in Bethesda or Chevy Chase.

Plenty of middle class homes under 750k. People just think because they make 125k a year they are too good for them

The further away homes are from jobs, the more transportation infrastructure is needed. The NIMBY's in this country don't want to expand roads or public transportation, either.

By all means, go to meetings saying you want to expand into the ag reserve, build out light rail and bus, and widen Darnestown Rd, Georgia Ave, University Blvd, and Connecticut Ave. See how much support you get.

If you’d been paying attention, you’d know that upcounty residents, who YIMBYs often paint as being very NIMBY, want more roads. They really wanted M-83 but the YIMBYs on the council voted against it. On top of that, the YIMBYs have bled infrastructure funding with their tax breaks for developers.

The downcounty residents are the NIMBY's.. Look how hard they fight the purple line.

Case in point: The purple line is getting built. Another YIMBY win.

The purple line was tremendously delayed.

And look at M-83. Or the CCT. Or the Montrose Parkway extension.

There hasn't been any significant change in zoning to encourage increasing density at scale. This ZTA demonstrates that quite well. You're up in arms over a relatively small increase in density in only about 1% of the lots in the county.

None of this changes the fact that the YIMBYs have been on the winning side of every major land use vote at the council.

The only thing I’m up in arms about is YIMBYs’ refusal to take any responsibility for the state of the county’s economy and housing market. If you keep winning you actually have to fix things. Smart growth hasn’t fixed the housing market or the budget or economic growth or any of the other things that have been promised over the years. It’s made them worse.

The county hasn't pursued growth. Everything gets wrapped up in battles limiting what ultimately happens. So we just end up with bits of infill development where there happens to be land, some redevelopment of strip malls, and some sprawl mostly up 270.

Look at this case. We started with something that was already limited in scope and density, and then the proposal was watered down to the point that very few lots can take advantage of the changes.

I agree that the county hasn’t pursued growth. YIMBY policies have rewarded rent seekers, so the market seeks rents instead of growth.

I don't even believe there are YIMBY people who do not have a financial stake in the game. I know a few big real estate developers and they live in big custom homes in upper MoCo, Great Falls, Potomac or even in DC. They aren't sitting next to you at the BCC back to school night. They may own land/homes in your area, but that's for the full purpose of resell and development. It's a cover and a farce. They really do not care about the long term livability of a neighborhood. They have plan B & C.

Hmm, I'm a YIMBY homeowner. I guess I'm a shill because I want more neighbors to experience our great city?

You might come to regret your support for this one day when the MOCOs poorly thought out land use reforms result in a dispensary right next to your house.

"Let's build a small apartment building in a handful of areas"

"YOU ARE TuRnIn MY HoUse INTO A MetH LAB!!!!!"

"Let's keep the detached SFH zoning upon which residents relied when making their highly consequential and difficult from which to extricate life decisions. Incentivised increased construction rates and crowding present burdens to current residents, and infill at increased densities without adequate infrastructure presents burdens for new and old, alike. And it's not like we're compensating any of those in the 'handful of areas' who will bear the brunt."

"YOU ARE FEARMONGERING RACISTS WHO DON'T DESERVE ANY CONSIDERATION! WHAT ABOUT THE POOR, POOR NURSES AND TEACHERS??!!" (...whom this won't really help, but pay no attention to that!)

You people keep yapping about "infrastructure". You do realize we know how to build things in this country, right?

Jesus, get over it. More sewer/power/dog catchers are possible, stop worrying about tit.

Or...now follow, here...or, they could actually require the infrastructure be coincident with the development.

Oh, you’ll strike a nerve here. They hate any preposterous talk of planning for growth. They just want to, like, let the growth happen, man. The schools will totally just get planned organically!

YIMBY are the left-wing version of trickle-down-economics. No evidence to support their claims that eliminating zoning will magically solve all of societies issues, but they fervently believe that allowing the wealthy developers to do whatever they want without contributing to funding infrastructure will benefit society. Free-markets don't work for public safety, they don't work for schools, healthcare, or infrastructure planning. Eliminating zoning is just an another form of crony capitalism that benefits the ultra-wealthy mostly at the expense of normal people.

+1. YIMBYs socialize costs and privatize profit. YIMBY polices over the past 25 years have resulted in a massive transfer of wealth from the middle class to the super rich and from young people to old people while producing very slow growth.

Is this a joke? Please tell me you are joking.

The NIMBYs are the reason we are in this mess kid. Why do you think old people are hoarding 1.5 million dollar houses while the middle class can't find an apartment?

You are so out of touch.

I’m pretty sure that a developer sitting on a $22 million vacant lot with an approved plan for a high rise is having a bigger impact on housing supply than someone living in one single family house (which is, you know, the main purpose of a house, giving someone a place to live).

The simple fact is that the NIMBYs haven’t made policy here. The YIMBYs, like Andrew Friedson, Hans Riemer, George Leventhal, Casey Anderson, and Artie Harris have been on the winning side of all the votes.

It's amazing what NIMBYism will do to people! You all seem to think you are the most qualified people to determine how much "infrastructure" is needed for *anything*. More so than the experts and officials who... have that job.

Amazing.

Personally I just rely on the student generation estimates that MCPS and Planning have developed, even though they usually undershoot. The county hasn’t been delivering enough seats. That’s an objective fact. Also it’s planning that decided to second guess MCPS on what level of school overcrowding was too much, because they think being an urban planner makes someone an expert in everything when actually it just means you couldn’t pass the advanced math needed for a degree in architecture or economics.

It makes 0 economic sense to preemptively build a school or whatever other type of "infrastructure" before apartments are built. It takes years for the need to materialize, if at all. This is not a serious discussion at all. If a county needs a larger school, one will be built. Yes, it will take time and it will be imperfect. But guess what? That is literally how it has happened in this country for hundreds of years. You and your special little neighborhood are not unique.


Neighborhoods and schools change, more at 11.

It makes all kinds of sense, economic and otherwise. It may not make sense for the develppment industry, of course.

And the "preemptively" straw man is decidedly old hat in these discussions. The idea, much like the one they conveniently discarded with accessory dwelling units, is simply to ensure the local schools are not overcrowded and that the local infrastructure/public services are not overtaxed. That can mean holding off on development until the requisite school (and other) infrastructure is programmed and funded to be available coincident with the need when increased resident density arrives, not some if-you-build-it-they-will-come infrastructure cart before the population horse.

Why should the failures of the past to ensure adequate public facilities and services guide the present? That's like saying, "Well, we never had a country without a monarch before, so why should we push for a democracy?"

As for "If a county needs a larger school, one will be built," we can only laugh at the naivety (or, more likely, jaundiced presentation) of that statement. Just look around at the lumpy overcapacities and whacky boundaries that have been allowed to develop here and elsewhere due to under-investment, poor placement and the terrible afterthought planning that tends to dictate such outcomes. Indeed, it is not unique, but as it is clearly bad, there's no basis in the lack of uniqueness observation to support continuation of such practices.

But I suppose providing good living conditions, both for current residents and those moving in, shouldn't get in the way of "progress..."

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Anonymous wrote:If anyone wants to understand why this country doesn't build ANYTHING any more (high speed rail, infrastructure, clean energy, new cities) you just have to listen to these NIMBYs.

Just so disappointing to see a bunch of old people hold the country hostage while more and more people struggle. Typical boomers.

THERE IS A TON OF CHEAP LAND IN THE COUNTY...just not in Bethesda or Chevy Chase.

Plenty of middle class homes under 750k. People just think because they make 125k a year they are too good for them

The further away homes are from jobs, the more transportation infrastructure is needed. The NIMBY's in this country don't want to expand roads or public transportation, either.

By all means, go to meetings saying you want to expand into the ag reserve, build out light rail and bus, and widen Darnestown Rd, Georgia Ave, University Blvd, and Connecticut Ave. See how much support you get.

If you’d been paying attention, you’d know that upcounty residents, who YIMBYs often paint as being very NIMBY, want more roads. They really wanted M-83 but the YIMBYs on the council voted against it. On top of that, the YIMBYs have bled infrastructure funding with their tax breaks for developers.

The downcounty residents are the NIMBY's.. Look how hard they fight the purple line.

Case in point: The purple line is getting built. Another YIMBY win.

The purple line was tremendously delayed.

And look at M-83. Or the CCT. Or the Montrose Parkway extension.

There hasn't been any significant change in zoning to encourage increasing density at scale. This ZTA demonstrates that quite well. You're up in arms over a relatively small increase in density in only about 1% of the lots in the county.

None of this changes the fact that the YIMBYs have been on the winning side of every major land use vote at the council.

The only thing I’m up in arms about is YIMBYs’ refusal to take any responsibility for the state of the county’s economy and housing market. If you keep winning you actually have to fix things. Smart growth hasn’t fixed the housing market or the budget or economic growth or any of the other things that have been promised over the years. It’s made them worse.

The county hasn't pursued growth. Everything gets wrapped up in battles limiting what ultimately happens. So we just end up with bits of infill development where there happens to be land, some redevelopment of strip malls, and some sprawl mostly up 270.

Look at this case. We started with something that was already limited in scope and density, and then the proposal was watered down to the point that very few lots can take advantage of the changes.

I agree that the county hasn’t pursued growth. YIMBY policies have rewarded rent seekers, so the market seeks rents instead of growth.

I don't even believe there are YIMBY people who do not have a financial stake in the game. I know a few big real estate developers and they live in big custom homes in upper MoCo, Great Falls, Potomac or even in DC. They aren't sitting next to you at the BCC back to school night. They may own land/homes in your area, but that's for the full purpose of resell and development. It's a cover and a farce. They really do not care about the long term livability of a neighborhood. They have plan B & C.

Hmm, I'm a YIMBY homeowner. I guess I'm a shill because I want more neighbors to experience our great city?

You might come to regret your support for this one day when the MOCOs poorly thought out land use reforms result in a dispensary right next to your house.

"Let's build a small apartment building in a handful of areas"

"YOU ARE TuRnIn MY HoUse INTO A MetH LAB!!!!!"

"Let's keep the detached SFH zoning upon which residents relied when making their highly consequential and difficult from which to extricate life decisions. Incentivised increased construction rates and crowding present burdens to current residents, and infill at increased densities without adequate infrastructure presents burdens for new and old, alike. And it's not like we're compensating any of those in the 'handful of areas' who will bear the brunt."

"YOU ARE FEARMONGERING RACISTS WHO DON'T DESERVE ANY CONSIDERATION! WHAT ABOUT THE POOR, POOR NURSES AND TEACHERS??!!" (...whom this won't really help, but pay no attention to that!)

You people keep yapping about "infrastructure". You do realize we know how to build things in this country, right?

Jesus, get over it. More sewer/power/dog catchers are possible, stop worrying about tit.

Or...now follow, here...or, they could actually require the infrastructure be coincident with the development.

Oh, you’ll strike a nerve here. They hate any preposterous talk of planning for growth. They just want to, like, let the growth happen, man. The schools will totally just get planned organically!

YIMBY are the left-wing version of trickle-down-economics. No evidence to support their claims that eliminating zoning will magically solve all of societies issues, but they fervently believe that allowing the wealthy developers to do whatever they want without contributing to funding infrastructure will benefit society. Free-markets don't work for public safety, they don't work for schools, healthcare, or infrastructure planning. Eliminating zoning is just an another form of crony capitalism that benefits the ultra-wealthy mostly at the expense of normal people.

+1. YIMBYs socialize costs and privatize profit. YIMBY polices over the past 25 years have resulted in a massive transfer of wealth from the middle class to the super rich and from young people to old people while producing very slow growth.

Is this a joke? Please tell me you are joking.

The NIMBYs are the reason we are in this mess kid. Why do you think old people are hoarding 1.5 million dollar houses while the middle class can't find an apartment?

You are so out of touch.

I’m pretty sure that a developer sitting on a $22 million vacant lot with an approved plan for a high rise is having a bigger impact on housing supply than someone living in one single family house (which is, you know, the main purpose of a house, giving someone a place to live).

The simple fact is that the NIMBYs haven’t made policy here. The YIMBYs, like Andrew Friedson, Hans Riemer, George Leventhal, Casey Anderson, and Artie Harris have been on the winning side of all the votes.

It's amazing what NIMBYism will do to people! You all seem to think you are the most qualified people to determine how much "infrastructure" is needed for *anything*. More so than the experts and officials who... have that job.

Amazing.

Personally I just rely on the student generation estimates that MCPS and Planning have developed, even though they usually undershoot. The county hasn’t been delivering enough seats. That’s an objective fact. Also it’s planning that decided to second guess MCPS on what level of school overcrowding was too much, because they think being an urban planner makes someone an expert in everything when actually it just means you couldn’t pass the advanced math needed for a degree in architecture or economics.

It makes 0 economic sense to preemptively build a school or whatever other type of "infrastructure" before apartments are built. It takes years for the need to materialize, if at all. This is not a serious discussion at all. If a county needs a larger school, one will be built. Yes, it will take time and it will be imperfect. But guess what? That is literally how it has happened in this country for hundreds of years. You and your special little neighborhood are not unique.


Neighborhoods and schools change, more at 11.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If anyone wants to understand why this country doesn't build ANYTHING any more (high speed rail, infrastructure, clean energy, new cities) you just have to listen to these NIMBYs.

Just so disappointing to see a bunch of old people hold the country hostage while more and more people struggle. Typical boomers.

THERE IS A TON OF CHEAP LAND IN THE COUNTY...just not in Bethesda or Chevy Chase.

Plenty of middle class homes under 750k. People just think because they make 125k a year they are too good for them

The further away homes are from jobs, the more transportation infrastructure is needed. The NIMBY's in this country don't want to expand roads or public transportation, either.

By all means, go to meetings saying you want to expand into the ag reserve, build out light rail and bus, and widen Darnestown Rd, Georgia Ave, University Blvd, and Connecticut Ave. See how much support you get.

If you’d been paying attention, you’d know that upcounty residents, who YIMBYs often paint as being very NIMBY, want more roads. They really wanted M-83 but the YIMBYs on the council voted against it. On top of that, the YIMBYs have bled infrastructure funding with their tax breaks for developers.

The downcounty residents are the NIMBY's.. Look how hard they fight the purple line.

Case in point: The purple line is getting built. Another YIMBY win.

The purple line was tremendously delayed.

And look at M-83. Or the CCT. Or the Montrose Parkway extension.

There hasn't been any significant change in zoning to encourage increasing density at scale. This ZTA demonstrates that quite well. You're up in arms over a relatively small increase in density in only about 1% of the lots in the county.

None of this changes the fact that the YIMBYs have been on the winning side of every major land use vote at the council.

The only thing I’m up in arms about is YIMBYs’ refusal to take any responsibility for the state of the county’s economy and housing market. If you keep winning you actually have to fix things. Smart growth hasn’t fixed the housing market or the budget or economic growth or any of the other things that have been promised over the years. It’s made them worse.

The county hasn't pursued growth. Everything gets wrapped up in battles limiting what ultimately happens. So we just end up with bits of infill development where there happens to be land, some redevelopment of strip malls, and some sprawl mostly up 270.

Look at this case. We started with something that was already limited in scope and density, and then the proposal was watered down to the point that very few lots can take advantage of the changes.

I agree that the county hasn’t pursued growth. YIMBY policies have rewarded rent seekers, so the market seeks rents instead of growth.

I don't even believe there are YIMBY people who do not have a financial stake in the game. I know a few big real estate developers and they live in big custom homes in upper MoCo, Great Falls, Potomac or even in DC. They aren't sitting next to you at the BCC back to school night. They may own land/homes in your area, but that's for the full purpose of resell and development. It's a cover and a farce. They really do not care about the long term livability of a neighborhood. They have plan B & C.

Hmm, I'm a YIMBY homeowner. I guess I'm a shill because I want more neighbors to experience our great city?

You might come to regret your support for this one day when the MOCOs poorly thought out land use reforms result in a dispensary right next to your house.

"Let's build a small apartment building in a handful of areas"

"YOU ARE TuRnIn MY HoUse INTO A MetH LAB!!!!!"

"Let's keep the detached SFH zoning upon which residents relied when making their highly consequential and difficult from which to extricate life decisions. Incentivised increased construction rates and crowding present burdens to current residents, and infill at increased densities without adequate infrastructure presents burdens for new and old, alike. And it's not like we're compensating any of those in the 'handful of areas' who will bear the brunt."

"YOU ARE FEARMONGERING RACISTS WHO DON'T DESERVE ANY CONSIDERATION! WHAT ABOUT THE POOR, POOR NURSES AND TEACHERS??!!" (...whom this won't really help, but pay no attention to that!)

You people keep yapping about "infrastructure". You do realize we know how to build things in this country, right?

Jesus, get over it. More sewer/power/dog catchers are possible, stop worrying about tit.

Or...now follow, here...or, they could actually require the infrastructure be coincident with the development.

Oh, you’ll strike a nerve here. They hate any preposterous talk of planning for growth. They just want to, like, let the growth happen, man. The schools will totally just get planned organically!

YIMBY are the left-wing version of trickle-down-economics. No evidence to support their claims that eliminating zoning will magically solve all of societies issues, but they fervently believe that allowing the wealthy developers to do whatever they want without contributing to funding infrastructure will benefit society. Free-markets don't work for public safety, they don't work for schools, healthcare, or infrastructure planning. Eliminating zoning is just an another form of crony capitalism that benefits the ultra-wealthy mostly at the expense of normal people.

+1. YIMBYs socialize costs and privatize profit. YIMBY polices over the past 25 years have resulted in a massive transfer of wealth from the middle class to the super rich and from young people to old people while producing very slow growth.

Is this a joke? Please tell me you are joking.

The NIMBYs are the reason we are in this mess kid. Why do you think old people are hoarding 1.5 million dollar houses while the middle class can't find an apartment?

You are so out of touch.

I’m pretty sure that a developer sitting on a $22 million vacant lot with an approved plan for a high rise is having a bigger impact on housing supply than someone living in one single family house (which is, you know, the main purpose of a house, giving someone a place to live).

The simple fact is that the NIMBYs haven’t made policy here. The YIMBYs, like Andrew Friedson, Hans Riemer, George Leventhal, Casey Anderson, and Artie Harris have been on the winning side of all the votes.

It's amazing what NIMBYism will do to people! You all seem to think you are the most qualified people to determine how much "infrastructure" is needed for *anything*. More so than the experts and officials who... have that job.

Amazing.

Personally I just rely on the student generation estimates that MCPS and Planning have developed, even though they usually undershoot. The county hasn’t been delivering enough seats. That’s an objective fact. Also it’s planning that decided to second guess MCPS on what level of school overcrowding was too much, because they think being an urban planner makes someone an expert in everything when actually it just means you couldn’t pass the advanced math needed for a degree in architecture or economics.

It makes 0 economic sense to preemptively build a school or whatever other type of "infrastructure" before apartments are built. It takes years for the need to materialize, if at all. This is not a serious discussion at all. If a county needs a larger school, one will be built. Yes, it will take time and it will be imperfect. But guess what? That is literally how it has happened in this country for hundreds of years. You and your special little neighborhood are not unique.


Neighborhoods and schools change, more at 11.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:If anyone wants to understand why this country doesn't build ANYTHING any more (high speed rail, infrastructure, clean energy, new cities) you just have to listen to these NIMBYs.

Just so disappointing to see a bunch of old people hold the country hostage while more and more people struggle. Typical boomers.

THERE IS A TON OF CHEAP LAND IN THE COUNTY...just not in Bethesda or Chevy Chase.

Plenty of middle class homes under 750k. People just think because they make 125k a year they are too good for them

The further away homes are from jobs, the more transportation infrastructure is needed. The NIMBY's in this country don't want to expand roads or public transportation, either.

By all means, go to meetings saying you want to expand into the ag reserve, build out light rail and bus, and widen Darnestown Rd, Georgia Ave, University Blvd, and Connecticut Ave. See how much support you get.

If you’d been paying attention, you’d know that upcounty residents, who YIMBYs often paint as being very NIMBY, want more roads. They really wanted M-83 but the YIMBYs on the council voted against it. On top of that, the YIMBYs have bled infrastructure funding with their tax breaks for developers.

The downcounty residents are the NIMBY's.. Look how hard they fight the purple line.

Case in point: The purple line is getting built. Another YIMBY win.

The purple line was tremendously delayed.

And look at M-83. Or the CCT. Or the Montrose Parkway extension.

There hasn't been any significant change in zoning to encourage increasing density at scale. This ZTA demonstrates that quite well. You're up in arms over a relatively small increase in density in only about 1% of the lots in the county.

None of this changes the fact that the YIMBYs have been on the winning side of every major land use vote at the council.

The only thing I’m up in arms about is YIMBYs’ refusal to take any responsibility for the state of the county’s economy and housing market. If you keep winning you actually have to fix things. Smart growth hasn’t fixed the housing market or the budget or economic growth or any of the other things that have been promised over the years. It’s made them worse.

The county hasn't pursued growth. Everything gets wrapped up in battles limiting what ultimately happens. So we just end up with bits of infill development where there happens to be land, some redevelopment of strip malls, and some sprawl mostly up 270.

Look at this case. We started with something that was already limited in scope and density, and then the proposal was watered down to the point that very few lots can take advantage of the changes.

I agree that the county hasn’t pursued growth. YIMBY policies have rewarded rent seekers, so the market seeks rents instead of growth.

I don't even believe there are YIMBY people who do not have a financial stake in the game. I know a few big real estate developers and they live in big custom homes in upper MoCo, Great Falls, Potomac or even in DC. They aren't sitting next to you at the BCC back to school night. They may own land/homes in your area, but that's for the full purpose of resell and development. It's a cover and a farce. They really do not care about the long term livability of a neighborhood. They have plan B & C.

Hmm, I'm a YIMBY homeowner. I guess I'm a shill because I want more neighbors to experience our great city?

You might come to regret your support for this one day when the MOCOs poorly thought out land use reforms result in a dispensary right next to your house.

"Let's build a small apartment building in a handful of areas"

"YOU ARE TuRnIn MY HoUse INTO A MetH LAB!!!!!"

"Let's keep the detached SFH zoning upon which residents relied when making their highly consequential and difficult from which to extricate life decisions. Incentivised increased construction rates and crowding present burdens to current residents, and infill at increased densities without adequate infrastructure presents burdens for new and old, alike. And it's not like we're compensating any of those in the 'handful of areas' who will bear the brunt."

"YOU ARE FEARMONGERING RACISTS WHO DON'T DESERVE ANY CONSIDERATION! WHAT ABOUT THE POOR, POOR NURSES AND TEACHERS??!!" (...whom this won't really help, but pay no attention to that!)

The "I got mine" attitude in this is striking.

The "we'll take yours" of those pushing this is even more striking.

The zoning changes wouldn't involve taking land. But your sprawl proposal would require taking homes via eminent domain to build all the roads into DC it would need.

And surely you wouldn't fight a new 6 lane highway going in next to your house.

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Anonymous wrote:If anyone wants to understand why this country doesn't build ANYTHING any more (high speed rail, infrastructure, clean energy, new cities) you just have to listen to these NIMBYs.

Just so disappointing to see a bunch of old people hold the country hostage while more and more people struggle. Typical boomers.

THERE IS A TON OF CHEAP LAND IN THE COUNTY...just not in Bethesda or Chevy Chase.

Plenty of middle class homes under 750k. People just think because they make 125k a year they are too good for them

The further away homes are from jobs, the more transportation infrastructure is needed. The NIMBY's in this country don't want to expand roads or public transportation, either.

By all means, go to meetings saying you want to expand into the ag reserve, build out light rail and bus, and widen Darnestown Rd, Georgia Ave, University Blvd, and Connecticut Ave. See how much support you get.

If you’d been paying attention, you’d know that upcounty residents, who YIMBYs often paint as being very NIMBY, want more roads. They really wanted M-83 but the YIMBYs on the council voted against it. On top of that, the YIMBYs have bled infrastructure funding with their tax breaks for developers.

The downcounty residents are the NIMBY's.. Look how hard they fight the purple line.

Case in point: The purple line is getting built. Another YIMBY win.

The purple line was tremendously delayed.

And look at M-83. Or the CCT. Or the Montrose Parkway extension.

There hasn't been any significant change in zoning to encourage increasing density at scale. This ZTA demonstrates that quite well. You're up in arms over a relatively small increase in density in only about 1% of the lots in the county.

None of this changes the fact that the YIMBYs have been on the winning side of every major land use vote at the council.

The only thing I’m up in arms about is YIMBYs’ refusal to take any responsibility for the state of the county’s economy and housing market. If you keep winning you actually have to fix things. Smart growth hasn’t fixed the housing market or the budget or economic growth or any of the other things that have been promised over the years. It’s made them worse.

The county hasn't pursued growth. Everything gets wrapped up in battles limiting what ultimately happens. So we just end up with bits of infill development where there happens to be land, some redevelopment of strip malls, and some sprawl mostly up 270.

Look at this case. We started with something that was already limited in scope and density, and then the proposal was watered down to the point that very few lots can take advantage of the changes.

I agree that the county hasn’t pursued growth. YIMBY policies have rewarded rent seekers, so the market seeks rents instead of growth.

I don't even believe there are YIMBY people who do not have a financial stake in the game. I know a few big real estate developers and they live in big custom homes in upper MoCo, Great Falls, Potomac or even in DC. They aren't sitting next to you at the BCC back to school night. They may own land/homes in your area, but that's for the full purpose of resell and development. It's a cover and a farce. They really do not care about the long term livability of a neighborhood. They have plan B & C.

Hmm, I'm a YIMBY homeowner. I guess I'm a shill because I want more neighbors to experience our great city?

You might come to regret your support for this one day when the MOCOs poorly thought out land use reforms result in a dispensary right next to your house.

"Let's build a small apartment building in a handful of areas"

"YOU ARE TuRnIn MY HoUse INTO A MetH LAB!!!!!"

"Let's keep the detached SFH zoning upon which residents relied when making their highly consequential and difficult from which to extricate life decisions. Incentivised increased construction rates and crowding present burdens to current residents, and infill at increased densities without adequate infrastructure presents burdens for new and old, alike. And it's not like we're compensating any of those in the 'handful of areas' who will bear the brunt."

"YOU ARE FEARMONGERING RACISTS WHO DON'T DESERVE ANY CONSIDERATION! WHAT ABOUT THE POOR, POOR NURSES AND TEACHERS??!!" (...whom this won't really help, but pay no attention to that!)

You people keep yapping about "infrastructure". You do realize we know how to build things in this country, right?

Jesus, get over it. More sewer/power/dog catchers are possible, stop worrying about tit.

Or...now follow, here...or, they could actually require the infrastructure be coincident with the development.

Oh, you’ll strike a nerve here. They hate any preposterous talk of planning for growth. They just want to, like, let the growth happen, man. The schools will totally just get planned organically!

YIMBY are the left-wing version of trickle-down-economics. No evidence to support their claims that eliminating zoning will magically solve all of societies issues, but they fervently believe that allowing the wealthy developers to do whatever they want without contributing to funding infrastructure will benefit society. Free-markets don't work for public safety, they don't work for schools, healthcare, or infrastructure planning. Eliminating zoning is just an another form of crony capitalism that benefits the ultra-wealthy mostly at the expense of normal people.

+1. YIMBYs socialize costs and privatize profit. YIMBY polices over the past 25 years have resulted in a massive transfer of wealth from the middle class to the super rich and from young people to old people while producing very slow growth.

Is this a joke? Please tell me you are joking.

The NIMBYs are the reason we are in this mess kid. Why do you think old people are hoarding 1.5 million dollar houses while the middle class can't find an apartment?

You are so out of touch.

I’m pretty sure that a developer sitting on a $22 million vacant lot with an approved plan for a high rise is having a bigger impact on housing supply than someone living in one single family house (which is, you know, the main purpose of a house, giving someone a place to live).

The simple fact is that the NIMBYs haven’t made policy here. The YIMBYs, like Andrew Friedson, Hans Riemer, George Leventhal, Casey Anderson, and Artie Harris have been on the winning side of all the votes.

It's amazing what NIMBYism will do to people! You all seem to think you are the most qualified people to determine how much "infrastructure" is needed for *anything*. More so than the experts and officials who... have that job.

Amazing.

Personally I just rely on the student generation estimates that MCPS and Planning have developed, even though they usually undershoot. The county hasn’t been delivering enough seats. That’s an objective fact. Also it’s planning that decided to second guess MCPS on what level of school overcrowding was too much, because they think being an urban planner makes someone an expert in everything when actually it just means you couldn’t pass the advanced math needed for a degree in architecture or economics.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If anyone wants to understand why this country doesn't build ANYTHING any more (high speed rail, infrastructure, clean energy, new cities) you just have to listen to these NIMBYs.

Just so disappointing to see a bunch of old people hold the country hostage while more and more people struggle. Typical boomers.

THERE IS A TON OF CHEAP LAND IN THE COUNTY...just not in Bethesda or Chevy Chase.

Plenty of middle class homes under 750k. People just think because they make 125k a year they are too good for them

The further away homes are from jobs, the more transportation infrastructure is needed. The NIMBY's in this country don't want to expand roads or public transportation, either.

By all means, go to meetings saying you want to expand into the ag reserve, build out light rail and bus, and widen Darnestown Rd, Georgia Ave, University Blvd, and Connecticut Ave. See how much support you get.

If you’d been paying attention, you’d know that upcounty residents, who YIMBYs often paint as being very NIMBY, want more roads. They really wanted M-83 but the YIMBYs on the council voted against it. On top of that, the YIMBYs have bled infrastructure funding with their tax breaks for developers.

The downcounty residents are the NIMBY's.. Look how hard they fight the purple line.

Case in point: The purple line is getting built. Another YIMBY win.

The purple line was tremendously delayed.

And look at M-83. Or the CCT. Or the Montrose Parkway extension.

There hasn't been any significant change in zoning to encourage increasing density at scale. This ZTA demonstrates that quite well. You're up in arms over a relatively small increase in density in only about 1% of the lots in the county.

None of this changes the fact that the YIMBYs have been on the winning side of every major land use vote at the council.

The only thing I’m up in arms about is YIMBYs’ refusal to take any responsibility for the state of the county’s economy and housing market. If you keep winning you actually have to fix things. Smart growth hasn’t fixed the housing market or the budget or economic growth or any of the other things that have been promised over the years. It’s made them worse.

The county hasn't pursued growth. Everything gets wrapped up in battles limiting what ultimately happens. So we just end up with bits of infill development where there happens to be land, some redevelopment of strip malls, and some sprawl mostly up 270.

Look at this case. We started with something that was already limited in scope and density, and then the proposal was watered down to the point that very few lots can take advantage of the changes.

I agree that the county hasn’t pursued growth. YIMBY policies have rewarded rent seekers, so the market seeks rents instead of growth.

I don't even believe there are YIMBY people who do not have a financial stake in the game. I know a few big real estate developers and they live in big custom homes in upper MoCo, Great Falls, Potomac or even in DC. They aren't sitting next to you at the BCC back to school night. They may own land/homes in your area, but that's for the full purpose of resell and development. It's a cover and a farce. They really do not care about the long term livability of a neighborhood. They have plan B & C.

Hmm, I'm a YIMBY homeowner. I guess I'm a shill because I want more neighbors to experience our great city?

You might come to regret your support for this one day when the MOCOs poorly thought out land use reforms result in a dispensary right next to your house.

"Let's build a small apartment building in a handful of areas"

"YOU ARE TuRnIn MY HoUse INTO A MetH LAB!!!!!"

"Let's keep the detached SFH zoning upon which residents relied when making their highly consequential and difficult from which to extricate life decisions. Incentivised increased construction rates and crowding present burdens to current residents, and infill at increased densities without adequate infrastructure presents burdens for new and old, alike. And it's not like we're compensating any of those in the 'handful of areas' who will bear the brunt."

"YOU ARE FEARMONGERING RACISTS WHO DON'T DESERVE ANY CONSIDERATION! WHAT ABOUT THE POOR, POOR NURSES AND TEACHERS??!!" (...whom this won't really help, but pay no attention to that!)

You people keep yapping about "infrastructure". You do realize we know how to build things in this country, right?

Jesus, get over it. More sewer/power/dog catchers are possible, stop worrying about tit.

Or...now follow, here...or, they could actually require the infrastructure be coincident with the development.

Oh, you’ll strike a nerve here. They hate any preposterous talk of planning for growth. They just want to, like, let the growth happen, man. The schools will totally just get planned organically!

YIMBY are the left-wing version of trickle-down-economics. No evidence to support their claims that eliminating zoning will magically solve all of societies issues, but they fervently believe that allowing the wealthy developers to do whatever they want without contributing to funding infrastructure will benefit society. Free-markets don't work for public safety, they don't work for schools, healthcare, or infrastructure planning. Eliminating zoning is just an another form of crony capitalism that benefits the ultra-wealthy mostly at the expense of normal people.

+1. YIMBYs socialize costs and privatize profit. YIMBY polices over the past 25 years have resulted in a massive transfer of wealth from the middle class to the super rich and from young people to old people while producing very slow growth.

Is this a joke? Please tell me you are joking.

The NIMBYs are the reason we are in this mess kid. Why do you think old people are hoarding 1.5 million dollar houses while the middle class can't find an apartment?

You are so out of touch.

I’m pretty sure that a developer sitting on a $22 million vacant lot with an approved plan for a high rise is having a bigger impact on housing supply than someone living in one single family house (which is, you know, the main purpose of a house, giving someone a place to live).

The simple fact is that the NIMBYs haven’t made policy here. The YIMBYs, like Andrew Friedson, Hans Riemer, George Leventhal, Casey Anderson, and Artie Harris have been on the winning side of all the votes.

It's amazing what NIMBYism will do to people! You all seem to think you are the most qualified people to determine how much "infrastructure" is needed for *anything*. More so than the experts and officials who... have that job.

Amazing.

Personally I just rely on the student generation estimates that MCPS and Planning have developed, even though they usually undershoot. The county hasn’t been delivering enough seats. That’s an objective fact. Also it’s planning that decided to second guess MCPS on what level of school overcrowding was too much, because they think being an urban planner makes someone an expert in everything when actually it just means you couldn’t pass the advanced math needed for a degree in architecture or economics.

The YIMBYs think that they have a clever move to bring their kids to public zoning feedback sessions to present themselves as the “young family” and to try to paint people in opposition as “olds.”

Let’s make sure to point this out in the public forums and ask where all of these kids and all of their new multifamily home friends are going to go to school.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If anyone wants to understand why this country doesn't build ANYTHING any more (high speed rail, infrastructure, clean energy, new cities) you just have to listen to these NIMBYs.

Just so disappointing to see a bunch of old people hold the country hostage while more and more people struggle. Typical boomers.

THERE IS A TON OF CHEAP LAND IN THE COUNTY...just not in Bethesda or Chevy Chase.

Plenty of middle class homes under 750k. People just think because they make 125k a year they are too good for them

The further away homes are from jobs, the more transportation infrastructure is needed. The NIMBY's in this country don't want to expand roads or public transportation, either.

By all means, go to meetings saying you want to expand into the ag reserve, build out light rail and bus, and widen Darnestown Rd, Georgia Ave, University Blvd, and Connecticut Ave. See how much support you get.

If you’d been paying attention, you’d know that upcounty residents, who YIMBYs often paint as being very NIMBY, want more roads. They really wanted M-83 but the YIMBYs on the council voted against it. On top of that, the YIMBYs have bled infrastructure funding with their tax breaks for developers.

The downcounty residents are the NIMBY's.. Look how hard they fight the purple line.

Case in point: The purple line is getting built. Another YIMBY win.

The purple line was tremendously delayed.

And look at M-83. Or the CCT. Or the Montrose Parkway extension.

There hasn't been any significant change in zoning to encourage increasing density at scale. This ZTA demonstrates that quite well. You're up in arms over a relatively small increase in density in only about 1% of the lots in the county.

None of this changes the fact that the YIMBYs have been on the winning side of every major land use vote at the council.

The only thing I’m up in arms about is YIMBYs’ refusal to take any responsibility for the state of the county’s economy and housing market. If you keep winning you actually have to fix things. Smart growth hasn’t fixed the housing market or the budget or economic growth or any of the other things that have been promised over the years. It’s made them worse.

The county hasn't pursued growth. Everything gets wrapped up in battles limiting what ultimately happens. So we just end up with bits of infill development where there happens to be land, some redevelopment of strip malls, and some sprawl mostly up 270.

Look at this case. We started with something that was already limited in scope and density, and then the proposal was watered down to the point that very few lots can take advantage of the changes.

I agree that the county hasn’t pursued growth. YIMBY policies have rewarded rent seekers, so the market seeks rents instead of growth.

I don't even believe there are YIMBY people who do not have a financial stake in the game. I know a few big real estate developers and they live in big custom homes in upper MoCo, Great Falls, Potomac or even in DC. They aren't sitting next to you at the BCC back to school night. They may own land/homes in your area, but that's for the full purpose of resell and development. It's a cover and a farce. They really do not care about the long term livability of a neighborhood. They have plan B & C.

Hmm, I'm a YIMBY homeowner. I guess I'm a shill because I want more neighbors to experience our great city?

You might come to regret your support for this one day when the MOCOs poorly thought out land use reforms result in a dispensary right next to your house.

"Let's build a small apartment building in a handful of areas"

"YOU ARE TuRnIn MY HoUse INTO A MetH LAB!!!!!"

"Let's keep the detached SFH zoning upon which residents relied when making their highly consequential and difficult from which to extricate life decisions. Incentivised increased construction rates and crowding present burdens to current residents, and infill at increased densities without adequate infrastructure presents burdens for new and old, alike. And it's not like we're compensating any of those in the 'handful of areas' who will bear the brunt."

"YOU ARE FEARMONGERING RACISTS WHO DON'T DESERVE ANY CONSIDERATION! WHAT ABOUT THE POOR, POOR NURSES AND TEACHERS??!!" (...whom this won't really help, but pay no attention to that!)

You people keep yapping about "infrastructure". You do realize we know how to build things in this country, right?

Jesus, get over it. More sewer/power/dog catchers are possible, stop worrying about tit.

Or...now follow, here...or, they could actually require the infrastructure be coincident with the development.

Oh, you’ll strike a nerve here. They hate any preposterous talk of planning for growth. They just want to, like, let the growth happen, man. The schools will totally just get planned organically!

YIMBY are the left-wing version of trickle-down-economics. No evidence to support their claims that eliminating zoning will magically solve all of societies issues, but they fervently believe that allowing the wealthy developers to do whatever they want without contributing to funding infrastructure will benefit society. Free-markets don't work for public safety, they don't work for schools, healthcare, or infrastructure planning. Eliminating zoning is just an another form of crony capitalism that benefits the ultra-wealthy mostly at the expense of normal people.

+1. YIMBYs socialize costs and privatize profit. YIMBY polices over the past 25 years have resulted in a massive transfer of wealth from the middle class to the super rich and from young people to old people while producing very slow growth.

Is this a joke? Please tell me you are joking.

The NIMBYs are the reason we are in this mess kid. Why do you think old people are hoarding 1.5 million dollar houses while the middle class can't find an apartment?

You are so out of touch.

I’m pretty sure that a developer sitting on a $22 million vacant lot with an approved plan for a high rise is having a bigger impact on housing supply than someone living in one single family house (which is, you know, the main purpose of a house, giving someone a place to live).

The simple fact is that the NIMBYs haven’t made policy here. The YIMBYs, like Andrew Friedson, Hans Riemer, George Leventhal, Casey Anderson, and Artie Harris have been on the winning side of all the votes.

It's amazing what NIMBYism will do to people! You all seem to think you are the most qualified people to determine how much "infrastructure" is needed for *anything*. More so than the experts and officials who... have that job.

Amazing.

Personally I just rely on the student generation estimates that MCPS and Planning have developed, even though they usually undershoot. The county hasn’t been delivering enough seats. That’s an objective fact. Also it’s planning that decided to second guess MCPS on what level of school overcrowding was too much, because they think being an urban planner makes someone an expert in everything when actually it just means you couldn’t pass the advanced math needed for a degree in architecture or economics.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If anyone wants to understand why this country doesn't build ANYTHING any more (high speed rail, infrastructure, clean energy, new cities) you just have to listen to these NIMBYs.

Just so disappointing to see a bunch of old people hold the country hostage while more and more people struggle. Typical boomers.

THERE IS A TON OF CHEAP LAND IN THE COUNTY...just not in Bethesda or Chevy Chase.

Plenty of middle class homes under 750k. People just think because they make 125k a year they are too good for them

The further away homes are from jobs, the more transportation infrastructure is needed. The NIMBY's in this country don't want to expand roads or public transportation, either.

By all means, go to meetings saying you want to expand into the ag reserve, build out light rail and bus, and widen Darnestown Rd, Georgia Ave, University Blvd, and Connecticut Ave. See how much support you get.

If you’d been paying attention, you’d know that upcounty residents, who YIMBYs often paint as being very NIMBY, want more roads. They really wanted M-83 but the YIMBYs on the council voted against it. On top of that, the YIMBYs have bled infrastructure funding with their tax breaks for developers.

The downcounty residents are the NIMBY's.. Look how hard they fight the purple line.

Case in point: The purple line is getting built. Another YIMBY win.

The purple line was tremendously delayed.

And look at M-83. Or the CCT. Or the Montrose Parkway extension.

There hasn't been any significant change in zoning to encourage increasing density at scale. This ZTA demonstrates that quite well. You're up in arms over a relatively small increase in density in only about 1% of the lots in the county.

None of this changes the fact that the YIMBYs have been on the winning side of every major land use vote at the council.

The only thing I’m up in arms about is YIMBYs’ refusal to take any responsibility for the state of the county’s economy and housing market. If you keep winning you actually have to fix things. Smart growth hasn’t fixed the housing market or the budget or economic growth or any of the other things that have been promised over the years. It’s made them worse.

The county hasn't pursued growth. Everything gets wrapped up in battles limiting what ultimately happens. So we just end up with bits of infill development where there happens to be land, some redevelopment of strip malls, and some sprawl mostly up 270.

Look at this case. We started with something that was already limited in scope and density, and then the proposal was watered down to the point that very few lots can take advantage of the changes.

I agree that the county hasn’t pursued growth. YIMBY policies have rewarded rent seekers, so the market seeks rents instead of growth.

I don't even believe there are YIMBY people who do not have a financial stake in the game. I know a few big real estate developers and they live in big custom homes in upper MoCo, Great Falls, Potomac or even in DC. They aren't sitting next to you at the BCC back to school night. They may own land/homes in your area, but that's for the full purpose of resell and development. It's a cover and a farce. They really do not care about the long term livability of a neighborhood. They have plan B & C.

Hmm, I'm a YIMBY homeowner. I guess I'm a shill because I want more neighbors to experience our great city?

You might come to regret your support for this one day when the MOCOs poorly thought out land use reforms result in a dispensary right next to your house.

"Let's build a small apartment building in a handful of areas"

"YOU ARE TuRnIn MY HoUse INTO A MetH LAB!!!!!"

"Let's keep the detached SFH zoning upon which residents relied when making their highly consequential and difficult from which to extricate life decisions. Incentivised increased construction rates and crowding present burdens to current residents, and infill at increased densities without adequate infrastructure presents burdens for new and old, alike. And it's not like we're compensating any of those in the 'handful of areas' who will bear the brunt."

"YOU ARE FEARMONGERING RACISTS WHO DON'T DESERVE ANY CONSIDERATION! WHAT ABOUT THE POOR, POOR NURSES AND TEACHERS??!!" (...whom this won't really help, but pay no attention to that!)

You people keep yapping about "infrastructure". You do realize we know how to build things in this country, right?

Jesus, get over it. More sewer/power/dog catchers are possible, stop worrying about tit.

Or...now follow, here...or, they could actually require the infrastructure be coincident with the development.

Oh, you’ll strike a nerve here. They hate any preposterous talk of planning for growth. They just want to, like, let the growth happen, man. The schools will totally just get planned organically!

YIMBY are the left-wing version of trickle-down-economics. No evidence to support their claims that eliminating zoning will magically solve all of societies issues, but they fervently believe that allowing the wealthy developers to do whatever they want without contributing to funding infrastructure will benefit society. Free-markets don't work for public safety, they don't work for schools, healthcare, or infrastructure planning. Eliminating zoning is just an another form of crony capitalism that benefits the ultra-wealthy mostly at the expense of normal people.

+1. YIMBYs socialize costs and privatize profit. YIMBY polices over the past 25 years have resulted in a massive transfer of wealth from the middle class to the super rich and from young people to old people while producing very slow growth.

Is this a joke? Please tell me you are joking.

The NIMBYs are the reason we are in this mess kid. Why do you think old people are hoarding 1.5 million dollar houses while the middle class can't find an apartment?

You are so out of touch.

I’m pretty sure that a developer sitting on a $22 million vacant lot with an approved plan for a high rise is having a bigger impact on housing supply than someone living in one single family house (which is, you know, the main purpose of a house, giving someone a place to live).

The simple fact is that the NIMBYs haven’t made policy here. The YIMBYs, like Andrew Friedson, Hans Riemer, George Leventhal, Casey Anderson, and Artie Harris have been on the winning side of all the votes.

It's amazing what NIMBYism will do to people! You all seem to think you are the most qualified people to determine how much "infrastructure" is needed for *anything*. More so than the experts and officials who... have that job.

Amazing.

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Anonymous wrote:If anyone wants to understand why this country doesn't build ANYTHING any more (high speed rail, infrastructure, clean energy, new cities) you just have to listen to these NIMBYs.

Just so disappointing to see a bunch of old people hold the country hostage while more and more people struggle. Typical boomers.

THERE IS A TON OF CHEAP LAND IN THE COUNTY...just not in Bethesda or Chevy Chase.

Plenty of middle class homes under 750k. People just think because they make 125k a year they are too good for them

The further away homes are from jobs, the more transportation infrastructure is needed. The NIMBY's in this country don't want to expand roads or public transportation, either.

By all means, go to meetings saying you want to expand into the ag reserve, build out light rail and bus, and widen Darnestown Rd, Georgia Ave, University Blvd, and Connecticut Ave. See how much support you get.

If you’d been paying attention, you’d know that upcounty residents, who YIMBYs often paint as being very NIMBY, want more roads. They really wanted M-83 but the YIMBYs on the council voted against it. On top of that, the YIMBYs have bled infrastructure funding with their tax breaks for developers.

The downcounty residents are the NIMBY's.. Look how hard they fight the purple line.

Case in point: The purple line is getting built. Another YIMBY win.

The purple line was tremendously delayed.

And look at M-83. Or the CCT. Or the Montrose Parkway extension.

There hasn't been any significant change in zoning to encourage increasing density at scale. This ZTA demonstrates that quite well. You're up in arms over a relatively small increase in density in only about 1% of the lots in the county.

None of this changes the fact that the YIMBYs have been on the winning side of every major land use vote at the council.

The only thing I’m up in arms about is YIMBYs’ refusal to take any responsibility for the state of the county’s economy and housing market. If you keep winning you actually have to fix things. Smart growth hasn’t fixed the housing market or the budget or economic growth or any of the other things that have been promised over the years. It’s made them worse.

The county hasn't pursued growth. Everything gets wrapped up in battles limiting what ultimately happens. So we just end up with bits of infill development where there happens to be land, some redevelopment of strip malls, and some sprawl mostly up 270.

Look at this case. We started with something that was already limited in scope and density, and then the proposal was watered down to the point that very few lots can take advantage of the changes.

I agree that the county hasn’t pursued growth. YIMBY policies have rewarded rent seekers, so the market seeks rents instead of growth.

I don't even believe there are YIMBY people who do not have a financial stake in the game. I know a few big real estate developers and they live in big custom homes in upper MoCo, Great Falls, Potomac or even in DC. They aren't sitting next to you at the BCC back to school night. They may own land/homes in your area, but that's for the full purpose of resell and development. It's a cover and a farce. They really do not care about the long term livability of a neighborhood. They have plan B & C.

Hmm, I'm a YIMBY homeowner. I guess I'm a shill because I want more neighbors to experience our great city?

You might come to regret your support for this one day when the MOCOs poorly thought out land use reforms result in a dispensary right next to your house.

"Let's build a small apartment building in a handful of areas"

"YOU ARE TuRnIn MY HoUse INTO A MetH LAB!!!!!"

"Let's keep the detached SFH zoning upon which residents relied when making their highly consequential and difficult from which to extricate life decisions. Incentivised increased construction rates and crowding present burdens to current residents, and infill at increased densities without adequate infrastructure presents burdens for new and old, alike. And it's not like we're compensating any of those in the 'handful of areas' who will bear the brunt."

"YOU ARE FEARMONGERING RACISTS WHO DON'T DESERVE ANY CONSIDERATION! WHAT ABOUT THE POOR, POOR NURSES AND TEACHERS??!!" (...whom this won't really help, but pay no attention to that!)

You people keep yapping about "infrastructure". You do realize we know how to build things in this country, right?

Jesus, get over it. More sewer/power/dog catchers are possible, stop worrying about tit.

Or...now follow, here...or, they could actually require the infrastructure be coincident with the development.

Oh, you’ll strike a nerve here. They hate any preposterous talk of planning for growth. They just want to, like, let the growth happen, man. The schools will totally just get planned organically!

YIMBY are the left-wing version of trickle-down-economics. No evidence to support their claims that eliminating zoning will magically solve all of societies issues, but they fervently believe that allowing the wealthy developers to do whatever they want without contributing to funding infrastructure will benefit society. Free-markets don't work for public safety, they don't work for schools, healthcare, or infrastructure planning. Eliminating zoning is just an another form of crony capitalism that benefits the ultra-wealthy mostly at the expense of normal people.

+1. YIMBYs socialize costs and privatize profit. YIMBY polices over the past 25 years have resulted in a massive transfer of wealth from the middle class to the super rich and from young people to old people while producing very slow growth.

Is this a joke? Please tell me you are joking.

The NIMBYs are the reason we are in this mess kid. Why do you think old people are hoarding 1.5 million dollar houses while the middle class can't find an apartment?

You are so out of touch.

I’m pretty sure that a developer sitting on a $22 million vacant lot with an approved plan for a high rise is having a bigger impact on housing supply than someone living in one single family house (which is, you know, the main purpose of a house, giving someone a place to live).

The simple fact is that the NIMBYs haven’t made policy here. The YIMBYs, like Andrew Friedson, Hans Riemer, George Leventhal, Casey Anderson, and Artie Harris have been on the winning side of all the votes.

It's amazing what NIMBYism will do to people! You all seem to think you are the most qualified people to determine how much "infrastructure" is needed for *anything*. More so than the experts and officials who... have that job.

Amazing.