Anonymous
01/13/2025 21:30
Subject: How to fix our crisis
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:[img]Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:For all the talk about how bad the US system is, we actually score higher on PISA than France, Germany, Sweden, Austria, Netherlands, Norway and many other first world countries that nobody seems to claim are in educational crisis.
Now tell us a bit about the PISA scores distributed across race. It’ll be delightful to hear how much progress we’ve made.
So, your answer is to move the goal posts? Considering a country like Norway is incredibly homogenous…that makes the US overall scores even more impressive.
Oh my god, no I’m telling you to honestly share data. No post is moving, because I never even had a post- I’m a new poster, for Christ sakes. Data can be used and manipulated however you want. Just tell the people how our scores differentiate across race in this country; Hell, It actually is a really good statistic for white and Asian students, but you’re too clenched up and into internet arguments to respond in good faith.
I don’t care that Norway is homogenous. I care that we are accurately portraying the state of education in the US. The disparity is jarring and clearly racial. If you reported the facts, you will corroborate that white and Asian Americans clearly get an amazing, world-class education; hence, the copious amount of posts under this thread about how we need to change nothing and everything is fine and what even is that OP guy talking about in the first place.
So get off your ass and google the PISA data…not my job to parse this shit to your liking if you actually cared.
They are experiencing a demographic time bomb. If you want to if you want to defeat china, then import their smart young families, the country will collapse under its own weight.
I was making a different point…that as far as I know there is no international outrage about the German, Austrian, French, Norwegian, etc education systems even though they score worse than the US.
No use if you just want to curse at me and then manipulate data for your views. It’s actually really sick how much people like you get away with gross lies on this forum, because you have such little data handling experience that you spread vaporous lies. It wasn’t about me; of course, I know the PISA stats by race. It’s about showing a whole rationalization of the data rather than driving assumptions into the data.
There is tons of anger about education in all those places. How much international news do you actually imbibe? No, CNN isn’t talking about the woes of French education, maybe you should read French press if that is your desire.
DP, people don’t know but Asian Americans actually score the highest out of any group on the PISA. US black and Hispanic students do much worse, lower than all the other countries that PP was pointing out.
That’s only 7% of the US population. I guess the other 93% have to do well enough to lift up the overall average.
Just import more Asian kids; problem solved.
They need their young families to stay there. They are quickly approaching a demographic cliff. The countries would collapse under their own weight if we brought 50 million of their best and brightest here.
Anonymous
01/13/2025 21:29
Subject: How to fix our crisis
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:[img]Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:For all the talk about how bad the US system is, we actually score higher on PISA than France, Germany, Sweden, Austria, Netherlands, Norway and many other first world countries that nobody seems to claim are in educational crisis.
Now tell us a bit about the PISA scores distributed across race. It’ll be delightful to hear how much progress we’ve made.
So, your answer is to move the goal posts? Considering a country like Norway is incredibly homogenous…that makes the US overall scores even more impressive.
Oh my god, no I’m telling you to honestly share data. No post is moving, because I never even had a post- I’m a new poster, for Christ sakes. Data can be used and manipulated however you want. Just tell the people how our scores differentiate across race in this country; Hell, It actually is a really good statistic for white and Asian students, but you’re too clenched up and into internet arguments to respond in good faith.
I don’t care that Norway is homogenous. I care that we are accurately portraying the state of education in the US. The disparity is jarring and clearly racial. If you reported the facts, you will corroborate that white and Asian Americans clearly get an amazing, world-class education; hence, the copious amount of posts under this thread about how we need to change nothing and everything is fine and what even is that OP guy talking about in the first place.
So get off your ass and google the PISA data…not my job to parse this shit to your liking if you actually cared.
They are experiencing a demographic time bomb. If you want to if you want to defeat china, then import their smart young families, the country will collapse under its own weight.
I was making a different point…that as far as I know there is no international outrage about the German, Austrian, French, Norwegian, etc education systems even though they score worse than the US.
No use if you just want to curse at me and then manipulate data for your views. It’s actually really sick how much people like you get away with gross lies on this forum, because you have such little data handling experience that you spread vaporous lies. It wasn’t about me; of course, I know the PISA stats by race. It’s about showing a whole rationalization of the data rather than driving assumptions into the data.
There is tons of anger about education in all those places. How much international news do you actually imbibe? No, CNN isn’t talking about the woes of French education, maybe you should read French press if that is your desire.
DP, people don’t know but Asian Americans actually score the highest out of any group on the PISA. US black and Hispanic students do much worse, lower than all the other countries that PP was pointing out.
That’s only 7% of the US population. I guess the other 93% have to do well enough to lift up the overall average.
Just import more Asian kids; problem solved.
Anonymous
01/13/2025 17:30
Subject: How to fix our crisis
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:[img]Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:For all the talk about how bad the US system is, we actually score higher on PISA than France, Germany, Sweden, Austria, Netherlands, Norway and many other first world countries that nobody seems to claim are in educational crisis.
Now tell us a bit about the PISA scores distributed across race. It’ll be delightful to hear how much progress we’ve made.
So, your answer is to move the goal posts? Considering a country like Norway is incredibly homogenous…that makes the US overall scores even more impressive.
Oh my god, no I’m telling you to honestly share data. No post is moving, because I never even had a post- I’m a new poster, for Christ sakes. Data can be used and manipulated however you want. Just tell the people how our scores differentiate across race in this country; Hell, It actually is a really good statistic for white and Asian students, but you’re too clenched up and into internet arguments to respond in good faith.
I don’t care that Norway is homogenous. I care that we are accurately portraying the state of education in the US. The disparity is jarring and clearly racial. If you reported the facts, you will corroborate that white and Asian Americans clearly get an amazing, world-class education; hence, the copious amount of posts under this thread about how we need to change nothing and everything is fine and what even is that OP guy talking about in the first place.
So get off your ass and google the PISA data…not my job to parse this shit to your liking if you actually cared.
I was making a different point…that as far as I know there is no international outrage about the German, Austrian, French, Norwegian, etc education systems even though they score worse than the US.
No use if you just want to curse at me and then manipulate data for your views. It’s actually really sick how much people like you get away with gross lies on this forum, because you have such little data handling experience that you spread vaporous lies. It wasn’t about me; of course, I know the PISA stats by race. It’s about showing a whole rationalization of the data rather than driving assumptions into the data.
There is tons of anger about education in all those places. How much international news do you actually imbibe? No, CNN isn’t talking about the woes of French education, maybe you should read French press if that is your desire.
DP, people don’t know but Asian Americans actually score the highest out of any group on the PISA. US black and Hispanic students do much worse, lower than all the other countries that PP was pointing out.
That’s only 7% of the US population. I guess the other 93% have to do well enough to lift up the overall average.
Just import more Asian kids; problem solved.
Anonymous
01/13/2025 17:15
Subject: How to fix our crisis
Anonymous wrote:As much as we talk about the difficulty of college admissions, American high school students are not learning enough content to compete in a global market. The SAT is not rigorous and barely tests at a pre-calculus level. Our students are dropping out of STEM programs like flies, and students aren’t graduating with the skills needed to compete in the entry level market. What reforms should we make?
This quote makes it seem as if the difficulty of college admissions is in contradiction to the SAT being less rigorous, etc. In fact, they're connected:
Grade inflation in classroom GPAs, SATs, even AP exams means there are more kids with very top qualifications. Sure, what used to be a C is now a B. That's just a labeling difference.
But when what used to be a B is now an A, and all the As are still getting As, it means there are twice as many people with those top grades. You're getting similar clustering at the top of the SAT scale.
For context, I graduated HS in the mid-1980s with a 1400 SAT and ended up at Middlebury. My SAT score was more than 100 points above the Middlebury average, but it was also 200 points below the maximum. So there was plenty of room to tell the difference between me and, say, the person who ended up at MIT. (I also had a B average in honors class, so there's another way to tell the difference!)
Now it's much harder to tell me from the MIT applicant. And since grades don't do much to distinguish the two, you need to do it through ECs, various olympiads, etc., which suck the life out of kids and of course favor families that know about and can afford to do this stuff.
Solution: Just make the tests harder. Add 10 more super-hard questions to the SAT and give a plus to kids who can answer them. And so on with classroom grades, etc. It would make a lot of people's lives a lot less stressful.
Anonymous
01/13/2025 15:19
Subject: How to fix our crisis
Anonymous wrote:I must be missing something. Both my spouse and I took calculus in high school and have never used it. Both educated (ivy undergrad and grad if that even matters) I don't think calculus is useful for our kids but they will jump through the hoops if they have to, but I don't for once think calculus is what makes them better educated, instead it's their humanities courses in English lang and lit and history.
Calculus is really just a proxy for abstract thinking and rigor. If they could get that info some other way, calculus would be unnecessary for 95% of us.,
Anonymous
01/13/2025 14:53
Subject: Re:How to fix our crisis
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Making calculus a graduation requirement and not guaranteeing a high school diploma would fix a ton of our issues
How ridiculous. Unless one is going into a STEM field, calculus is completely unnecessary - and useless.
Calculus is totally ridiculous. I don’t think diplomas are guaranteed. I thought they were easy to get too until I had a kid who has a hard time with math. He will graduate (cause I will see so and pay as many tutors as I need) but it won’t be easy at all.
Diplomas are guaranteed. The worst neighborhoods in the US have 90%+graduation rates
That would be pretty impressive, considering the nationwide high school graduation rate is 87%.