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Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.

That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.

I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.

People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"

Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.

People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.

This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:

SVHS- 49.9%
Gaithersburg- 57.6%
Watkins Mill- 64.4%

Seneca Valley High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 51.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0104/2023

Gaithersburg High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 55.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0551/2023

Watkins Mills High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 58.9%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0545/2023

When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?

No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.

You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.

In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.

Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.

Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.

MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.

+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.

Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?

Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/WoottonHS.pdf

There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.

South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.

Some of it is.

It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.

Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.

28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?

QO students cross 28 all the time.

Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.

There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.

I don't think anyone was saying the KF kids should walk to Crown. The point was some kids on the west side of 270 but south of 28 could cross 28 and walk to Crown.

That’s really insane. I bet nobody in that area would walk if they’re rezoned to crown. Only driving could work which would will just cause traffic congestion.

No one from King Farm is walking to RM either...

Of course, King farm is more than 2 miles away from RM.

Anyway, expecting kids to walk 2 miles each way is unreasonable too. It really should be reduced to 1 mile.

Parts of KF are easily within a 2 mile walk to Crown. KF is huge.

DP. True, but if King Farm is zoned to Crown, MCPS will provide bus service across 270, just like MCPS provides bus service across 495 for Blair. I am 100% certain. That Shady Grove Road bridge and interchange is terrible for walking.

Or the board can cut costs and focus on proximity issues. Why is no one talking about the costs? I think there should be a rule that proximity to reduce busing costs are the primary factor considered for school boundaries. Crown can accomodate a lot of walkers and cut the lengths of the longest bus routes to recover millions.

"students were transported using 1,375 system-owned buses. According to MCPS’ financial records, fiscal year 2020 transportation costs totaled $109.4 million"
"February 2021 lease agreement for $168.7 million for the use of 326 electric buses"
https://mgaleg.maryland.gov/cmte_testimony/2023/jpr/1hJHkrt9IVeXFzKclxMEdf0XidCMKTe5r.pdf

Maryland officially has 180 school days in a year. An annual transportation cost of $109.4 million is about $608,000 a day! Do you think electric buses will go further than a diesel bus on a route? If you switch to electric buses, the routes need to be even shorter than they are now - not longer. In 3 to 5 years also expect a lot of battery issues popping up. Search up "electric school bus fire".

MCPS is literally throwing millions of our taxpayer money out the door for busing. Not for teachers. Not for academic programs. Busing.

It's time to stop listening to these crackpots who think busing is a magic wand for everything.

Well, maybe make sure the teaching quality, class offerings, facilities and extracurriculars are equivalent wherever you are in the district and you wouldn't have as much push for being in one school over another.

Some well reputed schools have the worst facilities like Wootton. Class offerings also depend on how many students are willing to take, same with extracurriculars and teaching quality. When families value education, the schools get better and attract better teachers and more families who value education. Not the other way around. This is a problem everywhere and not just in MCPS. Bussing doesn’t address the problem.

That's actually not how it works.

No good teacher enjoys teaching disruptive classes.

Are you a teacher?

In the workplace, most people value a convenient commute, a supportive and competent boss, and congenial co-workers. Schools are workplaces, and teachers are people.

I was and I quit being a teacher a decade ago.

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Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.

That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.

I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.

People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"

Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.

People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.

This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:

SVHS- 49.9%
Gaithersburg- 57.6%
Watkins Mill- 64.4%

Seneca Valley High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 51.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0104/2023

Gaithersburg High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 55.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0551/2023

Watkins Mills High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 58.9%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0545/2023

When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?

No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.

You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.

In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.

Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.

Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.

MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.

+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.

Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?

Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/WoottonHS.pdf

There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.

South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.

Some of it is.

It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.

Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.

28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?

QO students cross 28 all the time.

Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.

There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.

I don't think anyone was saying the KF kids should walk to Crown. The point was some kids on the west side of 270 but south of 28 could cross 28 and walk to Crown.

That’s really insane. I bet nobody in that area would walk if they’re rezoned to crown. Only driving could work which would will just cause traffic congestion.

No one from King Farm is walking to RM either...

Of course, King farm is more than 2 miles away from RM.

Anyway, expecting kids to walk 2 miles each way is unreasonable too. It really should be reduced to 1 mile.

Parts of KF are easily within a 2 mile walk to Crown. KF is huge.

DP. True, but if King Farm is zoned to Crown, MCPS will provide bus service across 270, just like MCPS provides bus service across 495 for Blair. I am 100% certain. That Shady Grove Road bridge and interchange is terrible for walking.

Or the board can cut costs and focus on proximity issues. Why is no one talking about the costs? I think there should be a rule that proximity to reduce busing costs are the primary factor considered for school boundaries. Crown can accomodate a lot of walkers and cut the lengths of the longest bus routes to recover millions.

"students were transported using 1,375 system-owned buses. According to MCPS’ financial records, fiscal year 2020 transportation costs totaled $109.4 million"
"February 2021 lease agreement for $168.7 million for the use of 326 electric buses"
https://mgaleg.maryland.gov/cmte_testimony/2023/jpr/1hJHkrt9IVeXFzKclxMEdf0XidCMKTe5r.pdf

Maryland officially has 180 school days in a year. An annual transportation cost of $109.4 million is about $608,000 a day! Do you think electric buses will go further than a diesel bus on a route? If you switch to electric buses, the routes need to be even shorter than they are now - not longer. In 3 to 5 years also expect a lot of battery issues popping up. Search up "electric school bus fire".

MCPS is literally throwing millions of our taxpayer money out the door for busing. Not for teachers. Not for academic programs. Busing.

It's time to stop listening to these crackpots who think busing is a magic wand for everything.

Well, maybe make sure the teaching quality, class offerings, facilities and extracurriculars are equivalent wherever you are in the district and you wouldn't have as much push for being in one school over another.

Some well reputed schools have the worst facilities like Wootton. Class offerings also depend on how many students are willing to take, same with extracurriculars and teaching quality. When families value education, the schools get better and attract better teachers and more families who value education. Not the other way around. This is a problem everywhere and not just in MCPS. Bussing doesn’t address the problem.

Not saying Wooton's facility is in great condition, but the community is a squeakier wheel than most. They showed in great numbers prior to the pandemic, but the issues noted weren't as dire in relation to the outcry as that at other facilities.

There are so many that are behind from decades of underfunding, perhaps with graft thrown in there, but that'd be really difficult to identify, given how MCPS works. The red-yellow-green KFI report a while back was so rife with inconsistencies based on elements of self-reporting as to produce a slanted picture, to boot. Some school admins didn't want to point out their facility deficiencies, especially if there were academic deficiencies already garnering attention. Others, without as much other baggage, took the opportunity to have correctable issues at least on the radar.

Again, Wooton could use some work, but I wouldn't be surprised to see families on certain borders look to a redistricting opportunity to be there despite that.

Separately, MCPS, as the unit of government empowered by the state to deliver pre-collegiate public education in MoCo should, by equal protection mandate, have the charge of providing equivalent opportunity to every student, no matter where they live in the county, meeting need for variation (special ed, EML, G/T, etc.) as far as they can do so. Having class offerings, etc., determined by who happens to live near you is antithetical to that.

Anonymous wrote:How is Churchill involved?

It's one of the schools within the scope of the proposed Crown boundary study. Probably included because it is overcapacity, and it borders Wootton and RM, parts of which are likely to be reassigned to Crown.

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Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.

That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.

I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.

People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"

Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.

People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.

This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:

SVHS- 49.9%
Gaithersburg- 57.6%
Watkins Mill- 64.4%

Seneca Valley High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 51.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0104/2023

Gaithersburg High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 55.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0551/2023

Watkins Mills High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 58.9%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0545/2023

When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?

No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.

You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.

In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.

Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.

Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.

MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.

+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.

Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?

Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/WoottonHS.pdf

There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.

South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.

Some of it is.

It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.

Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.

28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?

QO students cross 28 all the time.

Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.

There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.

I don't think anyone was saying the KF kids should walk to Crown. The point was some kids on the west side of 270 but south of 28 could cross 28 and walk to Crown.

That’s really insane. I bet nobody in that area would walk if they’re rezoned to crown. Only driving could work which would will just cause traffic congestion.

No one from King Farm is walking to RM either...

Of course, King farm is more than 2 miles away from RM.

Anyway, expecting kids to walk 2 miles each way is unreasonable too. It really should be reduced to 1 mile.

Parts of KF are easily within a 2 mile walk to Crown. KF is huge.

DP. True, but if King Farm is zoned to Crown, MCPS will provide bus service across 270, just like MCPS provides bus service across 495 for Blair. I am 100% certain. That Shady Grove Road bridge and interchange is terrible for walking.

Or the board can cut costs and focus on proximity issues. Why is no one talking about the costs? I think there should be a rule that proximity to reduce busing costs are the primary factor considered for school boundaries. Crown can accomodate a lot of walkers and cut the lengths of the longest bus routes to recover millions.

"students were transported using 1,375 system-owned buses. According to MCPS’ financial records, fiscal year 2020 transportation costs totaled $109.4 million"
"February 2021 lease agreement for $168.7 million for the use of 326 electric buses"
https://mgaleg.maryland.gov/cmte_testimony/2023/jpr/1hJHkrt9IVeXFzKclxMEdf0XidCMKTe5r.pdf

Maryland officially has 180 school days in a year. An annual transportation cost of $109.4 million is about $608,000 a day! Do you think electric buses will go further than a diesel bus on a route? If you switch to electric buses, the routes need to be even shorter than they are now - not longer. In 3 to 5 years also expect a lot of battery issues popping up. Search up "electric school bus fire".

MCPS is literally throwing millions of our taxpayer money out the door for busing. Not for teachers. Not for academic programs. Busing.

It's time to stop listening to these crackpots who think busing is a magic wand for everything.

Well, maybe make sure the teaching quality, class offerings, facilities and extracurriculars are equivalent wherever you are in the district and you wouldn't have as much push for being in one school over another.

Some well reputed schools have the worst facilities like Wootton. Class offerings also depend on how many students are willing to take, same with extracurriculars and teaching quality. When families value education, the schools get better and attract better teachers and more families who value education. Not the other way around. This is a problem everywhere and not just in MCPS. Bussing doesn’t address the problem.

That's actually not how it works.

No good teacher enjoys teaching disruptive classes.

Are you a teacher?

In the workplace, most people value a convenient commute, a supportive and competent boss, and congenial co-workers. Schools are workplaces, and teachers are people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.

That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.

I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.

People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"

Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.

People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.

This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:

SVHS- 49.9%
Gaithersburg- 57.6%
Watkins Mill- 64.4%

Seneca Valley High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 51.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0104/2023

Gaithersburg High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 55.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0551/2023

Watkins Mills High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 58.9%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0545/2023

When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?

No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.

You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.

In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.

Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.

Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.

MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.

+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.

Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?

Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/WoottonHS.pdf

There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.

South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.

Some of it is.

It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.

Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.

28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?

QO students cross 28 all the time.

Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.

There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.

I don't think anyone was saying the KF kids should walk to Crown. The point was some kids on the west side of 270 but south of 28 could cross 28 and walk to Crown.

That’s really insane. I bet nobody in that area would walk if they’re rezoned to crown. Only driving could work which would will just cause traffic congestion.

No one from King Farm is walking to RM either...

Of course, King farm is more than 2 miles away from RM.

Anyway, expecting kids to walk 2 miles each way is unreasonable too. It really should be reduced to 1 mile.

Parts of KF are easily within a 2 mile walk to Crown. KF is huge.

DP. True, but if King Farm is zoned to Crown, MCPS will provide bus service across 270, just like MCPS provides bus service across 495 for Blair. I am 100% certain. That Shady Grove Road bridge and interchange is terrible for walking.

Or the board can cut costs and focus on proximity issues. Why is no one talking about the costs? I think there should be a rule that proximity to reduce busing costs are the primary factor considered for school boundaries. Crown can accomodate a lot of walkers and cut the lengths of the longest bus routes to recover millions.

"students were transported using 1,375 system-owned buses. According to MCPS’ financial records, fiscal year 2020 transportation costs totaled $109.4 million"
"February 2021 lease agreement for $168.7 million for the use of 326 electric buses"
https://mgaleg.maryland.gov/cmte_testimony/2023/jpr/1hJHkrt9IVeXFzKclxMEdf0XidCMKTe5r.pdf

Maryland officially has 180 school days in a year. An annual transportation cost of $109.4 million is about $608,000 a day! Do you think electric buses will go further than a diesel bus on a route? If you switch to electric buses, the routes need to be even shorter than they are now - not longer. In 3 to 5 years also expect a lot of battery issues popping up. Search up "electric school bus fire".

MCPS is literally throwing millions of our taxpayer money out the door for busing. Not for teachers. Not for academic programs. Busing.

It's time to stop listening to these crackpots who think busing is a magic wand for everything.

Well, maybe make sure the teaching quality, class offerings, facilities and extracurriculars are equivalent wherever you are in the district and you wouldn't have as much push for being in one school over another.

Some well reputed schools have the worst facilities like Wootton. Class offerings also depend on how many students are willing to take, same with extracurriculars and teaching quality. When families value education, the schools get better and attract better teachers and more families who value education. Not the other way around. This is a problem everywhere and not just in MCPS. Bussing doesn’t address the problem.

That's actually not how it works.

No good teacher enjoys teaching disruptive classes.

How is Churchill involved?

A lot of the best teachers will end up at Crown and Woodward.

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Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.

That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.

I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.

People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"

Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.

People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.

This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:

SVHS- 49.9%
Gaithersburg- 57.6%
Watkins Mill- 64.4%

Seneca Valley High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 51.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0104/2023

Gaithersburg High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 55.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0551/2023

Watkins Mills High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 58.9%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0545/2023

When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?

No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.

You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.

In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.

Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.

Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.

MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.

+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.

Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?

Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/WoottonHS.pdf

There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.

South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.

Some of it is.

It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.

Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.

28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?

QO students cross 28 all the time.

Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.

There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.

I don't think anyone was saying the KF kids should walk to Crown. The point was some kids on the west side of 270 but south of 28 could cross 28 and walk to Crown.

That’s really insane. I bet nobody in that area would walk if they’re rezoned to crown. Only driving could work which would will just cause traffic congestion.

No one from King Farm is walking to RM either...

Of course, King farm is more than 2 miles away from RM.

Anyway, expecting kids to walk 2 miles each way is unreasonable too. It really should be reduced to 1 mile.

Parts of KF are easily within a 2 mile walk to Crown. KF is huge.

DP. True, but if King Farm is zoned to Crown, MCPS will provide bus service across 270, just like MCPS provides bus service across 495 for Blair. I am 100% certain. That Shady Grove Road bridge and interchange is terrible for walking.

Or the board can cut costs and focus on proximity issues. Why is no one talking about the costs? I think there should be a rule that proximity to reduce busing costs are the primary factor considered for school boundaries. Crown can accomodate a lot of walkers and cut the lengths of the longest bus routes to recover millions.

"students were transported using 1,375 system-owned buses. According to MCPS’ financial records, fiscal year 2020 transportation costs totaled $109.4 million"
"February 2021 lease agreement for $168.7 million for the use of 326 electric buses"
https://mgaleg.maryland.gov/cmte_testimony/2023/jpr/1hJHkrt9IVeXFzKclxMEdf0XidCMKTe5r.pdf

Maryland officially has 180 school days in a year. An annual transportation cost of $109.4 million is about $608,000 a day! Do you think electric buses will go further than a diesel bus on a route? If you switch to electric buses, the routes need to be even shorter than they are now - not longer. In 3 to 5 years also expect a lot of battery issues popping up. Search up "electric school bus fire".

MCPS is literally throwing millions of our taxpayer money out the door for busing. Not for teachers. Not for academic programs. Busing.

It's time to stop listening to these crackpots who think busing is a magic wand for everything.

Well, maybe make sure the teaching quality, class offerings, facilities and extracurriculars are equivalent wherever you are in the district and you wouldn't have as much push for being in one school over another.

Some well reputed schools have the worst facilities like Wootton. Class offerings also depend on how many students are willing to take, same with extracurriculars and teaching quality. When families value education, the schools get better and attract better teachers and more families who value education. Not the other way around. This is a problem everywhere and not just in MCPS. Bussing doesn’t address the problem.

That's actually not how it works.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.

That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.

I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.

People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"

Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.

People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.

This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:

SVHS- 49.9%
Gaithersburg- 57.6%
Watkins Mill- 64.4%

Seneca Valley High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 51.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0104/2023

Gaithersburg High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 55.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0551/2023

Watkins Mills High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 58.9%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0545/2023

When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?

No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.

You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.

In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.

Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.

Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.

MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.

+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.

Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?

Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/WoottonHS.pdf

There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.

South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.

Some of it is.

It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.

Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.

28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?

QO students cross 28 all the time.

Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.

There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.

I don't think anyone was saying the KF kids should walk to Crown. The point was some kids on the west side of 270 but south of 28 could cross 28 and walk to Crown.

That’s really insane. I bet nobody in that area would walk if they’re rezoned to crown. Only driving could work which would will just cause traffic congestion.

No one from King Farm is walking to RM either...

Of course, King farm is more than 2 miles away from RM.

Anyway, expecting kids to walk 2 miles each way is unreasonable too. It really should be reduced to 1 mile.

Parts of KF are easily within a 2 mile walk to Crown. KF is huge.

DP. True, but if King Farm is zoned to Crown, MCPS will provide bus service across 270, just like MCPS provides bus service across 495 for Blair. I am 100% certain. That Shady Grove Road bridge and interchange is terrible for walking.

Or the board can cut costs and focus on proximity issues. Why is no one talking about the costs? I think there should be a rule that proximity to reduce busing costs are the primary factor considered for school boundaries. Crown can accomodate a lot of walkers and cut the lengths of the longest bus routes to recover millions.

"students were transported using 1,375 system-owned buses. According to MCPS’ financial records, fiscal year 2020 transportation costs totaled $109.4 million"
"February 2021 lease agreement for $168.7 million for the use of 326 electric buses"
https://mgaleg.maryland.gov/cmte_testimony/2023/jpr/1hJHkrt9IVeXFzKclxMEdf0XidCMKTe5r.pdf

Maryland officially has 180 school days in a year. An annual transportation cost of $109.4 million is about $608,000 a day! Do you think electric buses will go further than a diesel bus on a route? If you switch to electric buses, the routes need to be even shorter than they are now - not longer. In 3 to 5 years also expect a lot of battery issues popping up. Search up "electric school bus fire".

MCPS is literally throwing millions of our taxpayer money out the door for busing. Not for teachers. Not for academic programs. Busing.

It's time to stop listening to these crackpots who think busing is a magic wand for everything.

Well, maybe make sure the teaching quality, class offerings, facilities and extracurriculars are equivalent wherever you are in the district and you wouldn't have as much push for being in one school over another.

Some well reputed schools have the worst facilities like Wootton. Class offerings also depend on how many students are willing to take, same with extracurriculars and teaching quality. When families value education, the schools get better and attract better teachers and more families who value education. Not the other way around. This is a problem everywhere and not just in MCPS. Bussing doesn’t address the problem.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.

That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.

I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.

People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"

Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.

People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.

This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:

SVHS- 49.9%
Gaithersburg- 57.6%
Watkins Mill- 64.4%

Seneca Valley High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 51.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0104/2023

Gaithersburg High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 55.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0551/2023

Watkins Mills High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 58.9%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0545/2023

When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?

No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.

You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.

In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.

Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.

Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.

MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.

+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.

Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?

Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/WoottonHS.pdf

There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.

South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.

Some of it is.

It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.

Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.

28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?

QO students cross 28 all the time.

Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.

There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.

I don't think anyone was saying the KF kids should walk to Crown. The point was some kids on the west side of 270 but south of 28 could cross 28 and walk to Crown.

That’s really insane. I bet nobody in that area would walk if they’re rezoned to crown. Only driving could work which would will just cause traffic congestion.

No one from King Farm is walking to RM either...

Of course, King farm is more than 2 miles away from RM.

Anyway, expecting kids to walk 2 miles each way is unreasonable too. It really should be reduced to 1 mile.

Parts of KF are easily within a 2 mile walk to Crown. KF is huge.

DP. True, but if King Farm is zoned to Crown, MCPS will provide bus service across 270, just like MCPS provides bus service across 495 for Blair. I am 100% certain. That Shady Grove Road bridge and interchange is terrible for walking.

Or the board can cut costs and focus on proximity issues. Why is no one talking about the costs? I think there should be a rule that proximity to reduce busing costs are the primary factor considered for school boundaries. Crown can accomodate a lot of walkers and cut the lengths of the longest bus routes to recover millions.

"students were transported using 1,375 system-owned buses. According to MCPS’ financial records, fiscal year 2020 transportation costs totaled $109.4 million"
"February 2021 lease agreement for $168.7 million for the use of 326 electric buses"
https://mgaleg.maryland.gov/cmte_testimony/2023/jpr/1hJHkrt9IVeXFzKclxMEdf0XidCMKTe5r.pdf

Maryland officially has 180 school days in a year. An annual transportation cost of $109.4 million is about $608,000 a day! Do you think electric buses will go further than a diesel bus on a route? If you switch to electric buses, the routes need to be even shorter than they are now - not longer. In 3 to 5 years also expect a lot of battery issues popping up. Search up "electric school bus fire".

MCPS is literally throwing millions of our taxpayer money out the door for busing. Not for teachers. Not for academic programs. Busing.

It's time to stop listening to these crackpots who think busing is a magic wand for everything.

Agreed. It's time to start making sure kids have sidewalks and safe street crossings, so they can walk to school instead of getting bused. MCPS shouldn't have to spend money on busing to make up for for the county's and state's failure to provide sidewalks and safe street crossings.

Sidewalks! Not in my front yard! (NIMFY)

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Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.

That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.

I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.

People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"

Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.

People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.

This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:

SVHS- 49.9%
Gaithersburg- 57.6%
Watkins Mill- 64.4%

Seneca Valley High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 51.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0104/2023

Gaithersburg High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 55.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0551/2023

Watkins Mills High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 58.9%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0545/2023

When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?

No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.

You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.

In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.

Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.

Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.

MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.

+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.

Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?

Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/WoottonHS.pdf

There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.

South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.

Some of it is.

It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.

Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.

28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?

QO students cross 28 all the time.

Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.

There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.

I don't think anyone was saying the KF kids should walk to Crown. The point was some kids on the west side of 270 but south of 28 could cross 28 and walk to Crown.

That’s really insane. I bet nobody in that area would walk if they’re rezoned to crown. Only driving could work which would will just cause traffic congestion.

No one from King Farm is walking to RM either...

Of course, King farm is more than 2 miles away from RM.

Anyway, expecting kids to walk 2 miles each way is unreasonable too. It really should be reduced to 1 mile.

Parts of KF are easily within a 2 mile walk to Crown. KF is huge.

DP. True, but if King Farm is zoned to Crown, MCPS will provide bus service across 270, just like MCPS provides bus service across 495 for Blair. I am 100% certain. That Shady Grove Road bridge and interchange is terrible for walking.

Or the board can cut costs and focus on proximity issues. Why is no one talking about the costs? I think there should be a rule that proximity to reduce busing costs are the primary factor considered for school boundaries. Crown can accomodate a lot of walkers and cut the lengths of the longest bus routes to recover millions.

"students were transported using 1,375 system-owned buses. According to MCPS’ financial records, fiscal year 2020 transportation costs totaled $109.4 million"
"February 2021 lease agreement for $168.7 million for the use of 326 electric buses"
https://mgaleg.maryland.gov/cmte_testimony/2023/jpr/1hJHkrt9IVeXFzKclxMEdf0XidCMKTe5r.pdf

Maryland officially has 180 school days in a year. An annual transportation cost of $109.4 million is about $608,000 a day! Do you think electric buses will go further than a diesel bus on a route? If you switch to electric buses, the routes need to be even shorter than they are now - not longer. In 3 to 5 years also expect a lot of battery issues popping up. Search up "electric school bus fire".

MCPS is literally throwing millions of our taxpayer money out the door for busing. Not for teachers. Not for academic programs. Busing.

It's time to stop listening to these crackpots who think busing is a magic wand for everything.

Agreed. It's time to start making sure kids have sidewalks and safe street crossings, so they can walk to school instead of getting bused. MCPS shouldn't have to spend money on busing to make up for for the county's and state's failure to provide sidewalks and safe street crossings.

The board does take proximity into account. They have been maximizing walkers. However when one school is 3miles away and another 3.5 miles away they can then consider the other factors because those kids are getting bussed regardless.

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Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.

That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.

I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.

People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"

Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.

People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.

This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:

SVHS- 49.9%
Gaithersburg- 57.6%
Watkins Mill- 64.4%

Seneca Valley High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 51.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0104/2023

Gaithersburg High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 55.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0551/2023

Watkins Mills High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 58.9%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0545/2023

When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?

No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.

You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.

In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.

Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.

Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.

MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.

+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.

Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?

Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/WoottonHS.pdf

There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.

South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.

Some of it is.

It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.

Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.

28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?

QO students cross 28 all the time.

Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.

There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.

I don't think anyone was saying the KF kids should walk to Crown. The point was some kids on the west side of 270 but south of 28 could cross 28 and walk to Crown.

That’s really insane. I bet nobody in that area would walk if they’re rezoned to crown. Only driving could work which would will just cause traffic congestion.

No one from King Farm is walking to RM either...

Of course, King farm is more than 2 miles away from RM.

Anyway, expecting kids to walk 2 miles each way is unreasonable too. It really should be reduced to 1 mile.

Parts of KF are easily within a 2 mile walk to Crown. KF is huge.

DP. True, but if King Farm is zoned to Crown, MCPS will provide bus service across 270, just like MCPS provides bus service across 495 for Blair. I am 100% certain. That Shady Grove Road bridge and interchange is terrible for walking.

Or the board can cut costs and focus on proximity issues. Why is no one talking about the costs? I think there should be a rule that proximity to reduce busing costs are the primary factor considered for school boundaries. Crown can accomodate a lot of walkers and cut the lengths of the longest bus routes to recover millions.

"students were transported using 1,375 system-owned buses. According to MCPS’ financial records, fiscal year 2020 transportation costs totaled $109.4 million"
"February 2021 lease agreement for $168.7 million for the use of 326 electric buses"
https://mgaleg.maryland.gov/cmte_testimony/2023/jpr/1hJHkrt9IVeXFzKclxMEdf0XidCMKTe5r.pdf

Maryland officially has 180 school days in a year. An annual transportation cost of $109.4 million is about $608,000 a day! Do you think electric buses will go further than a diesel bus on a route? If you switch to electric buses, the routes need to be even shorter than they are now - not longer. In 3 to 5 years also expect a lot of battery issues popping up. Search up "electric school bus fire".

MCPS is literally throwing millions of our taxpayer money out the door for busing. Not for teachers. Not for academic programs. Busing.

It's time to stop listening to these crackpots who think busing is a magic wand for everything.

Well, maybe make sure the teaching quality, class offerings, facilities and extracurriculars are equivalent wherever you are in the district and you wouldn't have as much push for being in one school over another.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.

That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.

I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.

People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"

Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.

People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.

This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:

SVHS- 49.9%
Gaithersburg- 57.6%
Watkins Mill- 64.4%

Seneca Valley High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 51.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0104/2023

Gaithersburg High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 55.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0551/2023

Watkins Mills High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 58.9%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0545/2023

When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?

No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.

You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.

In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.

Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.

Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.

MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.

+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.

Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?

Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/WoottonHS.pdf

There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.

South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.

Some of it is.

It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.

Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.

28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?

QO students cross 28 all the time.

Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.

There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.

I don't think anyone was saying the KF kids should walk to Crown. The point was some kids on the west side of 270 but south of 28 could cross 28 and walk to Crown.

That’s really insane. I bet nobody in that area would walk if they’re rezoned to crown. Only driving could work which would will just cause traffic congestion.

No one from King Farm is walking to RM either...

Of course, King farm is more than 2 miles away from RM.

Anyway, expecting kids to walk 2 miles each way is unreasonable too. It really should be reduced to 1 mile.

Parts of KF are easily within a 2 mile walk to Crown. KF is huge.

DP. True, but if King Farm is zoned to Crown, MCPS will provide bus service across 270, just like MCPS provides bus service across 495 for Blair. I am 100% certain. That Shady Grove Road bridge and interchange is terrible for walking.

Or the board can cut costs and focus on proximity issues. Why is no one talking about the costs? I think there should be a rule that proximity to reduce busing costs are the primary factor considered for school boundaries. Crown can accomodate a lot of walkers and cut the lengths of the longest bus routes to recover millions.

"students were transported using 1,375 system-owned buses. According to MCPS’ financial records, fiscal year 2020 transportation costs totaled $109.4 million"
"February 2021 lease agreement for $168.7 million for the use of 326 electric buses"
https://mgaleg.maryland.gov/cmte_testimony/2023/jpr/1hJHkrt9IVeXFzKclxMEdf0XidCMKTe5r.pdf

Maryland officially has 180 school days in a year. An annual transportation cost of $109.4 million is about $608,000 a day! Do you think electric buses will go further than a diesel bus on a route? If you switch to electric buses, the routes need to be even shorter than they are now - not longer. In 3 to 5 years also expect a lot of battery issues popping up. Search up "electric school bus fire".

MCPS is literally throwing millions of our taxpayer money out the door for busing. Not for teachers. Not for academic programs. Busing.

It's time to stop listening to these crackpots who think busing is a magic wand for everything.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FARMS kids do not do better when they are bused.

That said, every child deserves to have fair access to a quality education. It looks bad when they have one school with a 1300 average SAT and one with a 950 SAT. But the kids with a 950 SAT would still score the same even if they moved to the 1300 average SAT school and vice versa.

I am a strong believer in the school within a school mindset that allows the ones that want to learn a separate peer group for their core classes.

People want stability in their schools. I hope the BOE doesn't go on a crusade to move kids around just because it's the "in thing to do"

Kids from poor families actually do do better when they attend low-poverty vs. high-poverty schools.

People are against change, period. But you can't have boundary changes without change.

This. The higher the poverty rate, the lower the performance. These need to be reduced:

SVHS- 49.9%
Gaithersburg- 57.6%
Watkins Mill- 64.4%

Seneca Valley High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 51.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0104/2023

Gaithersburg High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 55.0%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0551/2023

Watkins Mills High: 2023 Hispanic chronic absenteeism rate 58.9%:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/Demographics/ChronicAbsenteeism/3/99/1/6/15/0545/2023

When you move chronically absent students to a school farther away, will they suddenly show up for school?

No they won't, but the concern extends beyond them. In some ways, they're going to do what they want to do. It's really more about the ripple effect throughout the entire school. When a huge portion of the student body is plagued by chronic absenteeism the impact to the school is profound. For example, using Watkins Mills numbers- 1,715 students, 616 are chronically absent. Imagine what that does to the school. Teachers now have to dedicate significant time to help the absent students catch up, which disrupts classroom dynamics and affects the experience of the kids who consistently go to school and do want to learn. There's a high number of students who are disengaged and a high number of disciplinary issues. There's probably limited clubs and programs compared to the other schools that don't have this problem because the demand is low. There's probably very little to no school spirit. Very low parental engagement. A sense of apathy among a large number of students and staff. Higher than normal teacher turnover rates. What you end up with is a negative school culture that is not an ideal environment for learning. This is what MCPS cares about and why demographics is a big factor in boundary studies.

You move these kids to other schools so each school having 10-15% chronically absent is still causing issues, and more schools will have low moral. Possibly more Hispanic students will be absent due to the distance. The people who care about education will not accept their kids being bussed to poor performing schools so they will leave or go to private schools. Then none of the schools will be ideal environment for learning. It’s a lose lose situation. Seriously this is a problem that busing cannot solve.

In fact, Hispanic organizations have surveyed Hispanic students in MCPS and found that many immigrant Hispanic students don't go to school because they were poorly educated in their home countries and could not keep up with their grade-level work. You cannot solve this problem by bussing.

Again, the issue isn't so much the kids who don't want to go to school. I agree we can't fix that. The significant issue is the ripple effect that having a large number of chronically absent kids have on a school and the resulting environment that it causes. It negatively impacts the other students, the staff, and the overall culture of the school.

Again this problem is not solvable by bussing. Bussing will only make the ripple effect in a few schools be extended to more schools.

MCPS buses over 100,000 students, twice a day. This boundary study will almost certainly reduce busing by reassigning students in potential walk zones.

+1. All the kids who live near Crown who currently take the bus to Gaithersburg or Wootton will become walkers. That's a good thing.

Name a neighborhood in wootton that’s actually walkable to crown?

Most obviously: the Washingtonian area, which is literally across Fields Road from the Crown HS site.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/WoottonHS.pdf

There are also some areas south of 28 that look like they're within 2.0 miles walking distance of the Crown HS site, some of which are also within walking distance of Wootton.

South of 28 is really not walkable to crown. There may be some houses just within 2 miles but not the entire neighborhood so still need bus for the neighborhood.

Some of it is.

It's going to depend on how the MCPS transportation department determines the walk zone for Crown. If they don't think it's safe for students to cross 28, or Shady Grove, or Sam Eig, then they will remain bus riders even if less than 2 miles away from Crown.

Definitely not safe to walk 2 miles on highway 28 and cross it everyday for students.

28 isn't less safe than Georgia Ave, or Veirs Mill, or University, or Connecticut, or 355. MCPS expects high school students to walk along and cross those roads. MCPS even expects middle school students to walk along and cross those roads. So why not 28, too?

QO students cross 28 all the time.

Huh? Have you even been to QO? Crossing 28 at QO is nothing like crossing 270 or 370; or even 355 for that matter. Get real.

There's no way KF should go to Crown. There's only one way a kid can walk home from Crown to Kings Farm or College Gardens, and that's 40 minutes using the Shady Grove / 270 overpass. If there's ice or an emergency - not safe at all.

I don't think anyone was saying the KF kids should walk to Crown. The point was some kids on the west side of 270 but south of 28 could cross 28 and walk to Crown.

That’s really insane. I bet nobody in that area would walk if they’re rezoned to crown. Only driving could work which would will just cause traffic congestion.

No one from King Farm is walking to RM either...

Of course, King farm is more than 2 miles away from RM.

Anyway, expecting kids to walk 2 miles each way is unreasonable too. It really should be reduced to 1 mile.

Parts of KF are easily within a 2 mile walk to Crown. KF is huge.

DP. True, but if King Farm is zoned to Crown, MCPS will provide bus service across 270, just like MCPS provides bus service across 495 for Blair. I am 100% certain. That Shady Grove Road bridge and interchange is terrible for walking.

Good point. I don't feel comfortable walking that interchange as a fairly quick footed adult, certainly don't want kids trying to navigate it.