Anonymous
10/30/2023 13:52
Subject: Re:To people frustrated with Biden who say they won’t vote in 2024
Instead of pushing our Democratic leaders to the morally correct thing - call for an immediate ceasefire and initiate an internationlly-brokered peace process that addresses the occupation of Gaza, the illegal settlements in the West Bank, and the discriminatory treatment of Palestinians in Israel - the Democrats are shaming people for refusing to support the indiscriminate slaughter and genocide of Palestinians. Do better.
Sorry - I'm a US taxpayer and I am DISGUSTED that my tax dollars are being used to fund a genocidal, maniacal, right-wing, child-killing Israeli regime instead of paying for healthcare, education, and housing for AMERICANS in America.
Anonymous
10/30/2023 12:42
Subject: Re:To people frustrated with Biden who say they won’t vote in 2024
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You know, I remember quite a few Bernie female stans who didn't want to vote for Hillary in 2016 because of their conscience. They are very upset now about losing their right to bodily autonomy.
Vote for whomever you want, but be prepared to deal with the consequences, because either Biden or Trump will be president. And don't whine afterwards.
Tired of dealing with privileged narcissists.
You’re right there’s a lesson here but it isn’t for the people who voted for Bernie. The lesson is for the Democratic Party:
No One Owes You Votes. It is simply not enough to not be Donald Trump. Hilary Clinton proved that in 2016 and yet here everyone is in 2023 with a year left to make different choices all ready to blame, not the candidate, but the voters they’re failing to reach.
Work harder. And look at 2016 as a cautionary tale.
With all that's going on in the world right now, I think most people are willing to jump on board with a movement towards a presidential candidate that is actually fit to serve from 2025 through 2029. They are out there. We must demand it.
Or...and get this...you could make them want to vote for you rather than demanding they vote for you by offering them policies they want! And generally not being hostile to these people you want support from.
But alas. The Democrats still haven't learned. They think they can treat progressives like shit then stomp and yell and bully them into voting blue because Trump.
We hear this Every. Four. Years. Vote blue no matter who! Democracy is at stake. Enough is enough. I'm not voting for you! I do not agree with your policies. And you do not want me in your party.
DP.
I’m a left-leaning independent.
If the Dems move any further left, I’ll stay home.
Quite the conundrum for the party, I’d say.
What do you suggest?
Don't know. Sounds like we don't belong in the same party. But the Dems are a center right party these days. You used to be what we called a Republican. They aren't left of anything. You can have 'em.
Wow. You’re a true iconoclast. The Democrats don’t deserve to have someone as real as you are. We should all look to you for how to structure a party for positive change.
I’m seeing unkempt grey hair, stale patchouli funk and a voter who long ago abandoned the Democratic Party which could have made a positive change in the world. They just didn’t have the purity you demanded and so you decided to hell with the world, to hell with women and rape victims and a world slowly burning… the only sane option wasn’t pure enough.
The worst version of the last paragraph never will approach the awfulness of recent Democratic leaders, especially Genocide Joe. Smart, decent people focus on what matters.
Anonymous
10/30/2023 12:40
Subject: To people frustrated with Biden who say they won’t vote in 2024
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If you live in a state that was at all a close Biden victory, just know that you are making it more likely that Trump will win again.
Be frustrated all you want, but ask yourself whether it’s worth a second Trump term.
Yes, well worth it!
There are many of us who see clearly that the difference between Biden and Trump is much less than the MSNBC/NPR/etc crowds imagined it to be. Dealing our big problems can’t start soon enough, but won’t come until the Democrats upgrade themselves enough to attract bigger majorities.
You’re so clearly a Republican.
No, in fact it’s substantially clearer you’re delusional.
Anonymous
10/30/2023 12:11
Subject: To people frustrated with Biden who say they won’t vote in 2024
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Great so instead the crazies will hand us to Russia Tump said last night he will pull us from NATO
He will have Nuclear codes .
If you are not petrified you should be.
That’s what the Republicans on this thread want to have happen. That’s the goal.
Any “Democrat” who despises the direction the country is headed but won’t acknowledge that the GOP will damage the country irretrievably isn’t a Democrat. On this board, anyway, they’re likely to be Republicans, happy to spread the idea that it’s the Democrats that are disaffected.
Don’t fall into this comfortable trap. Polling this weekend shows Biden’s support among *Democrats* flagging. Worst of his presidency.
He has a year to fix this. He has a year to reach out to the voters he’s alienating. That needs to be what the people around him tell him right now.
Biden is not going to fix anything. It is not him who makes the decision. He is just a poster child.
Anonymous
10/30/2023 11:45
Subject: Re:To people frustrated with Biden who say they won’t vote in 2024
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You know, I remember quite a few Bernie female stans who didn't want to vote for Hillary in 2016 because of their conscience. They are very upset now about losing their right to bodily autonomy.
Vote for whomever you want, but be prepared to deal with the consequences, because either Biden or Trump will be president. And don't whine afterwards.
Tired of dealing with privileged narcissists.
You’re right there’s a lesson here but it isn’t for the people who voted for Bernie. The lesson is for the Democratic Party:
No One Owes You Votes. It is simply not enough to not be Donald Trump. Hilary Clinton proved that in 2016 and yet here everyone is in 2023 with a year left to make different choices all ready to blame, not the candidate, but the voters they’re failing to reach.
Work harder. And look at 2016 as a cautionary tale.
With all that's going on in the world right now, I think most people are willing to jump on board with a movement towards a presidential candidate that is actually fit to serve from 2025 through 2029. They are out there. We must demand it.
Or...and get this...you could make them want to vote for you rather than demanding they vote for you by offering them policies they want! And generally not being hostile to these people you want support from.
But alas. The Democrats still haven't learned. They think they can treat progressives like shit then stomp and yell and bully them into voting blue because Trump.
We hear this Every. Four. Years. Vote blue no matter who! Democracy is at stake. Enough is enough. I'm not voting for you! I do not agree with your policies. And you do not want me in your party.
DP.
I’m a left-leaning independent.
If the Dems move any further left, I’ll stay home.
Quite the conundrum for the party, I’d say.
What do you suggest?
Don't know. Sounds like we don't belong in the same party. But the Dems are a center right party these days. You used to be what we called a Republican. They aren't left of anything. You can have 'em.
If we don't figure something out together, neither of us will like the results.
I'm at the point where I've accepted that it has to get bad before it can get good. Progressives have been fighting for a $15 minimum wage for most of my adult life. We still don't have it. Dems always manage to fumble even when they have both houses and the white house. I'm realizing it's because they don't actually want progressive policies either.
I'm done. Let the Republicans create their Gileadean corporate hellscape. Maybe it'll get bad enough, and people will get fired up enough to finally make the major changes we need to make to keep up with the rest of the developed world.
But I'm done voting blue. It's like Charlie Brown and that damn football. Not falling for it anymore. We do not have the same goals.
PP here.
It's funny you bring up the minimum wage example.
You're aware that it passed in FL, right?
I had mixed feelings about it but ultimately voted for it. So perhaps we have a bit more common ground that you think?
I will say that your post also illustrates my main objection to the far left: the unwillingness to accept incremental progress or compromise.
It's also worth considering whether "a Gileadean corporate hellscape" is really better than incremental and uneven progress here and there.
I dont believe incrementalism works. You can't build over a bad foundation. We all have to decide this isn't working, let's try something new. The dems in this country want to keep throwing energy at fixing broken systems that were built for different times, different populations, different attitudes, and different societal needs.
Anonymous
10/30/2023 11:41
Subject: Re:To people frustrated with Biden who say they won’t vote in 2024
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You know, I remember quite a few Bernie female stans who didn't want to vote for Hillary in 2016 because of their conscience. They are very upset now about losing their right to bodily autonomy.
Vote for whomever you want, but be prepared to deal with the consequences, because either Biden or Trump will be president. And don't whine afterwards.
Tired of dealing with privileged narcissists.
You’re right there’s a lesson here but it isn’t for the people who voted for Bernie. The lesson is for the Democratic Party:
No One Owes You Votes. It is simply not enough to not be Donald Trump. Hilary Clinton proved that in 2016 and yet here everyone is in 2023 with a year left to make different choices all ready to blame, not the candidate, but the voters they’re failing to reach.
Work harder. And look at 2016 as a cautionary tale.
With all that's going on in the world right now, I think most people are willing to jump on board with a movement towards a presidential candidate that is actually fit to serve from 2025 through 2029. They are out there. We must demand it.
Or...and get this...you could make them want to vote for you rather than demanding they vote for you by offering them policies they want! And generally not being hostile to these people you want support from.
But alas. The Democrats still haven't learned. They think they can treat progressives like shit then stomp and yell and bully them into voting blue because Trump.
We hear this Every. Four. Years. Vote blue no matter who! Democracy is at stake. Enough is enough. I'm not voting for you! I do not agree with your policies. And you do not want me in your party.
DP.
I’m a left-leaning independent.
If the Dems move any further left, I’ll stay home.
Quite the conundrum for the party, I’d say.
What do you suggest?
Don't know. Sounds like we don't belong in the same party. But the Dems are a center right party these days. You used to be what we called a Republican. They aren't left of anything. You can have 'em.
If we don't figure something out together, neither of us will like the results.
I'm at the point where I've accepted that it has to get bad before it can get good. Progressives have been fighting for a $15 minimum wage for most of my adult life. We still don't have it. Dems always manage to fumble even when they have both houses and the white house. I'm realizing it's because they don't actually want progressive policies either.
I'm done. Let the Republicans create their Gileadean corporate hellscape. Maybe it'll get bad enough, and people will get fired up enough to finally make the major changes we need to make to keep up with the rest of the developed world.
But I'm done voting blue. It's like Charlie Brown and that damn football. Not falling for it anymore. We do not have the same goals.
Do you know any unskilled workers? They are making more than $15 per hour now, more like $18+, and since they are all making that now, it is no longer enough for them to live comfortably on. See reddit, which has different demographic than this site for proof, lots of people who no education who go from job to job looking for a dollar or two more in salary, and they are never satisfied.
Hence my point. We do not have the same world view and we do not have the same policy stances, yet you feel entitled to my vote and my support. It's ridiculous really.
I don't believe in unskilled labor. I think it's gross to suggest some people arent worthy of a decent life because of the job they do. Either a job is necessary to our economy or it isn't. And if it is, the people doing that job deserve a living wage. They should have access to affordable housing, quality education for their children, affordable healthcare, and should be able to retire in peace once they can no longer work. I believe our country has enough money and resources to make this a reality. We simply choose not to do it because we worship at the feet of capitalism.
Anonymous
10/30/2023 11:37
Subject: Re:To people frustrated with Biden who say they won’t vote in 2024
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You know, I remember quite a few Bernie female stans who didn't want to vote for Hillary in 2016 because of their conscience. They are very upset now about losing their right to bodily autonomy.
Vote for whomever you want, but be prepared to deal with the consequences, because either Biden or Trump will be president. And don't whine afterwards.
Tired of dealing with privileged narcissists.
You’re right there’s a lesson here but it isn’t for the people who voted for Bernie. The lesson is for the Democratic Party:
No One Owes You Votes. It is simply not enough to not be Donald Trump. Hilary Clinton proved that in 2016 and yet here everyone is in 2023 with a year left to make different choices all ready to blame, not the candidate, but the voters they’re failing to reach.
Work harder. And look at 2016 as a cautionary tale.
With all that's going on in the world right now, I think most people are willing to jump on board with a movement towards a presidential candidate that is actually fit to serve from 2025 through 2029. They are out there. We must demand it.
Or...and get this...you could make them want to vote for you rather than demanding they vote for you by offering them policies they want! And generally not being hostile to these people you want support from.
But alas. The Democrats still haven't learned. They think they can treat progressives like shit then stomp and yell and bully them into voting blue because Trump.
We hear this Every. Four. Years. Vote blue no matter who! Democracy is at stake. Enough is enough. I'm not voting for you! I do not agree with your policies. And you do not want me in your party.
DP.
I’m a left-leaning independent.
If the Dems move any further left, I’ll stay home.
Quite the conundrum for the party, I’d say.
What do you suggest?
Don't know. Sounds like we don't belong in the same party. But the Dems are a center right party these days. You used to be what we called a Republican. They aren't left of anything. You can have 'em.
If we don't figure something out together, neither of us will like the results.
I'm at the point where I've accepted that it has to get bad before it can get good. Progressives have been fighting for a $15 minimum wage for most of my adult life. We still don't have it. Dems always manage to fumble even when they have both houses and the white house. I'm realizing it's because they don't actually want progressive policies either.
I'm done. Let the Republicans create their Gileadean corporate hellscape. Maybe it'll get bad enough, and people will get fired up enough to finally make the major changes we need to make to keep up with the rest of the developed world.
But I'm done voting blue. It's like Charlie Brown and that damn football. Not falling for it anymore. We do not have the same goals.
PP here.
It's funny you bring up the minimum wage example.
You're aware that it passed in FL, right?
I had mixed feelings about it but ultimately voted for it. So perhaps we have a bit more common ground that you think?
I will say that your post also illustrates my main objection to the far left: the unwillingness to accept incremental progress or compromise.
It's also worth considering whether "a Gileadean corporate hellscape" is really better than incremental and uneven progress here and there.
Anonymous
10/30/2023 11:36
Subject: Re:To people frustrated with Biden who say they won’t vote in 2024
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You know, I remember quite a few Bernie female stans who didn't want to vote for Hillary in 2016 because of their conscience. They are very upset now about losing their right to bodily autonomy.
Vote for whomever you want, but be prepared to deal with the consequences, because either Biden or Trump will be president. And don't whine afterwards.
Tired of dealing with privileged narcissists.
You’re right there’s a lesson here but it isn’t for the people who voted for Bernie. The lesson is for the Democratic Party:
No One Owes You Votes. It is simply not enough to not be Donald Trump. Hilary Clinton proved that in 2016 and yet here everyone is in 2023 with a year left to make different choices all ready to blame, not the candidate, but the voters they’re failing to reach.
Work harder. And look at 2016 as a cautionary tale.
With all that's going on in the world right now, I think most people are willing to jump on board with a movement towards a presidential candidate that is actually fit to serve from 2025 through 2029. They are out there. We must demand it.
Or...and get this...you could make them want to vote for you rather than demanding they vote for you by offering them policies they want! And generally not being hostile to these people you want support from.
But alas. The Democrats still haven't learned. They think they can treat progressives like shit then stomp and yell and bully them into voting blue because Trump.
We hear this Every. Four. Years. Vote blue no matter who! Democracy is at stake. Enough is enough. I'm not voting for you! I do not agree with your policies. And you do not want me in your party.
DP.
I’m a left-leaning independent.
If the Dems move any further left, I’ll stay home.
Quite the conundrum for the party, I’d say.
What do you suggest?
Don't know. Sounds like we don't belong in the same party. But the Dems are a center right party these days. You used to be what we called a Republican. They aren't left of anything. You can have 'em.
Dems like you are the reason Dems like me, aren’t really Dems anymore. I’m still a registered Democrat, been one my whole life. Grew up in a union home, member of a union today. Our party is definitely NOT center-right. I’m center/slightly left, and I feel almost like a total outsider now. I can’t tell if you’re being facetious or you’re really serious (and woefully misinformed) when you say the party is center-right. Because it most definitely is not. My father was a lifelong Democrat and union shop steward and poll worker, and I am absolutely certain he’d be ridiculed and run out of the party if he were alive today.
I like Joe. But I’m alarmed at some of the people who seem to be influencing him and running things for him. And I think he’s past his prime. He would’ve been fabulous a decade ago. But between the direction I see the party going and Joe’s performance, I’m not voting this time. And yes, I realize that incrementally increases the odds of DeSantis winning. But I think maybe a loss is the wake up call that Democrats need right now, to bring the party back towards the middle and reacquire people like me. Because there are a lot of us out here.
Look up the ratchet effect. The party isn't moving left. It's moving right. You believe it's moved to the left only because the Republicans have gone so unbelievably far right they are outright fascists at this point. So someone not a fascist identifies with the Dems. Pulling the Democrats further and further right along with them.
The only reason they feel super left to you is because you're actually a conservative. The Overton window in the US is incredibly skewed. The rest of the world mocks us for the fact that we have two conservative corporate parties who fight tooth and nail over mere details of the same platform. There is no left here. Mostly because of the vote blue no matter who BS.
Anonymous
10/30/2023 11:33
Subject: Re:To people frustrated with Biden who say they won’t vote in 2024
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You know, I remember quite a few Bernie female stans who didn't want to vote for Hillary in 2016 because of their conscience. They are very upset now about losing their right to bodily autonomy.
Vote for whomever you want, but be prepared to deal with the consequences, because either Biden or Trump will be president. And don't whine afterwards.
Tired of dealing with privileged narcissists.
You’re right there’s a lesson here but it isn’t for the people who voted for Bernie. The lesson is for the Democratic Party:
No One Owes You Votes. It is simply not enough to not be Donald Trump. Hilary Clinton proved that in 2016 and yet here everyone is in 2023 with a year left to make different choices all ready to blame, not the candidate, but the voters they’re failing to reach.
Work harder. And look at 2016 as a cautionary tale.
With all that's going on in the world right now, I think most people are willing to jump on board with a movement towards a presidential candidate that is actually fit to serve from 2025 through 2029. They are out there. We must demand it.
Or...and get this...you could make them want to vote for you rather than demanding they vote for you by offering them policies they want! And generally not being hostile to these people you want support from.
But alas. The Democrats still haven't learned. They think they can treat progressives like shit then stomp and yell and bully them into voting blue because Trump.
We hear this Every. Four. Years. Vote blue no matter who! Democracy is at stake. Enough is enough. I'm not voting for you! I do not agree with your policies. And you do not want me in your party.
DP.
I’m a left-leaning independent.
If the Dems move any further left, I’ll stay home.
Quite the conundrum for the party, I’d say.
What do you suggest?
Don't know. Sounds like we don't belong in the same party. But the Dems are a center right party these days. You used to be what we called a Republican. They aren't left of anything. You can have 'em.
If we don't figure something out together, neither of us will like the results.
I'm at the point where I've accepted that it has to get bad before it can get good. Progressives have been fighting for a $15 minimum wage for most of my adult life. We still don't have it. Dems always manage to fumble even when they have both houses and the white house. I'm realizing it's because they don't actually want progressive policies either.
I'm done. Let the Republicans create their Gileadean corporate hellscape. Maybe it'll get bad enough, and people will get fired up enough to finally make the major changes we need to make to keep up with the rest of the developed world.
But I'm done voting blue. It's like Charlie Brown and that damn football. Not falling for it anymore. We do not have the same goals.
Do you know any unskilled workers? They are making more than $15 per hour now, more like $18+, and since they are all making that now, it is no longer enough for them to live comfortably on. See reddit, which has different demographic than this site for proof, lots of people who no education who go from job to job looking for a dollar or two more in salary, and they are never satisfied.
Anonymous
10/30/2023 11:30
Subject: Re:To people frustrated with Biden who say they won’t vote in 2024
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You know, I remember quite a few Bernie female stans who didn't want to vote for Hillary in 2016 because of their conscience. They are very upset now about losing their right to bodily autonomy.
Vote for whomever you want, but be prepared to deal with the consequences, because either Biden or Trump will be president. And don't whine afterwards.
Tired of dealing with privileged narcissists.
You’re right there’s a lesson here but it isn’t for the people who voted for Bernie. The lesson is for the Democratic Party:
No One Owes You Votes. It is simply not enough to not be Donald Trump. Hilary Clinton proved that in 2016 and yet here everyone is in 2023 with a year left to make different choices all ready to blame, not the candidate, but the voters they’re failing to reach.
Work harder. And look at 2016 as a cautionary tale.
With all that's going on in the world right now, I think most people are willing to jump on board with a movement towards a presidential candidate that is actually fit to serve from 2025 through 2029. They are out there. We must demand it.
Or...and get this...you could make them want to vote for you rather than demanding they vote for you by offering them policies they want! And generally not being hostile to these people you want support from.
But alas. The Democrats still haven't learned. They think they can treat progressives like shit then stomp and yell and bully them into voting blue because Trump.
We hear this Every. Four. Years. Vote blue no matter who! Democracy is at stake. Enough is enough. I'm not voting for you! I do not agree with your policies. And you do not want me in your party.
DP.
I’m a left-leaning independent.
If the Dems move any further left, I’ll stay home.
Quite the conundrum for the party, I’d say.
What do you suggest?
Don't know. Sounds like we don't belong in the same party. But the Dems are a center right party these days. You used to be what we called a Republican. They aren't left of anything. You can have 'em.
Wow. You’re a true iconoclast. The Democrats don’t deserve to have someone as real as you are. We should all look to you for how to structure a party for positive change.
I’m seeing unkempt grey hair, stale patchouli funk and a voter who long ago abandoned the Democratic Party which could have made a positive change in the world. They just didn’t have the purity you demanded and so you decided to hell with the world, to hell with women and rape victims and a world slowly burning… the only sane option wasn’t pure enough.
Yep you nailed it. I guess I'll vote for your candidate now!
I'm actually none of the things you describe, funny enough. I'm not white nor old enough to have unkempt grey hair, patchouli stinks, and I was a registered Dem until this year.
I actually volunteer to help women and rape victims instead of passively voting every 4 years while the Dems talk a big game and do nothing with their power.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. I gave your party a chance. Your party doesn't want me nor does it support my policy views.
And your attempt to get me on your side includes insulting me and telling me to grow up. So essentially I should keep supporting your candidates because...they aren't Republicans and that's the only choice I have? Real strong argument there. Hope it works out for you.
Anonymous
10/30/2023 11:23
Subject: Re:To people frustrated with Biden who say they won’t vote in 2024
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You know, I remember quite a few Bernie female stans who didn't want to vote for Hillary in 2016 because of their conscience. They are very upset now about losing their right to bodily autonomy.
Vote for whomever you want, but be prepared to deal with the consequences, because either Biden or Trump will be president. And don't whine afterwards.
Tired of dealing with privileged narcissists.
You’re right there’s a lesson here but it isn’t for the people who voted for Bernie. The lesson is for the Democratic Party:
No One Owes You Votes. It is simply not enough to not be Donald Trump. Hilary Clinton proved that in 2016 and yet here everyone is in 2023 with a year left to make different choices all ready to blame, not the candidate, but the voters they’re failing to reach.
Work harder. And look at 2016 as a cautionary tale.
With all that's going on in the world right now, I think most people are willing to jump on board with a movement towards a presidential candidate that is actually fit to serve from 2025 through 2029. They are out there. We must demand it.
Or...and get this...you could make them want to vote for you rather than demanding they vote for you by offering them policies they want! And generally not being hostile to these people you want support from.
But alas. The Democrats still haven't learned. They think they can treat progressives like shit then stomp and yell and bully them into voting blue because Trump.
We hear this Every. Four. Years. Vote blue no matter who! Democracy is at stake. Enough is enough. I'm not voting for you! I do not agree with your policies. And you do not want me in your party.
DP.
I’m a left-leaning independent.
If the Dems move any further left, I’ll stay home.
Quite the conundrum for the party, I’d say.
What do you suggest?
Don't know. Sounds like we don't belong in the same party. But the Dems are a center right party these days. You used to be what we called a Republican. They aren't left of anything. You can have 'em.
If we don't figure something out together, neither of us will like the results.
I'm at the point where I've accepted that it has to get bad before it can get good. Progressives have been fighting for a $15 minimum wage for most of my adult life. We still don't have it. Dems always manage to fumble even when they have both houses and the white house. I'm realizing it's because they don't actually want progressive policies either.
I'm done. Let the Republicans create their Gileadean corporate hellscape. Maybe it'll get bad enough, and people will get fired up enough to finally make the major changes we need to make to keep up with the rest of the developed world.
But I'm done voting blue. It's like Charlie Brown and that damn football. Not falling for it anymore. We do not have the same goals.
Anonymous
10/30/2023 11:11
Subject: To people frustrated with Biden who say they won’t vote in 2024
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Great so instead the crazies will hand us to Russia Tump said last night he will pull us from NATO
He will have Nuclear codes .
If you are not petrified you should be.
That’s what the Republicans on this thread want to have happen. That’s the goal.
Any “Democrat” who despises the direction the country is headed but won’t acknowledge that the GOP will damage the country irretrievably isn’t a Democrat. On this board, anyway, they’re likely to be Republicans, happy to spread the idea that it’s the Democrats that are disaffected.
Don’t fall into this comfortable trap. Polling this weekend shows Biden’s support among *Democrats* flagging. Worst of his presidency.
He has a year to fix this. He has a year to reach out to the voters he’s alienating. That needs to be what the people around him tell him right now.
Anonymous
10/30/2023 11:07
Subject: Re:To people frustrated with Biden who say they won’t vote in 2024
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You know, I remember quite a few Bernie female stans who didn't want to vote for Hillary in 2016 because of their conscience. They are very upset now about losing their right to bodily autonomy.
Vote for whomever you want, but be prepared to deal with the consequences, because either Biden or Trump will be president. And don't whine afterwards.
Tired of dealing with privileged narcissists.
You’re right there’s a lesson here but it isn’t for the people who voted for Bernie. The lesson is for the Democratic Party:
No One Owes You Votes. It is simply not enough to not be Donald Trump. Hilary Clinton proved that in 2016 and yet here everyone is in 2023 with a year left to make different choices all ready to blame, not the candidate, but the voters they’re failing to reach.
Work harder. And look at 2016 as a cautionary tale.
With all that's going on in the world right now, I think most people are willing to jump on board with a movement towards a presidential candidate that is actually fit to serve from 2025 through 2029. They are out there. We must demand it.
Or...and get this...you could make them want to vote for you rather than demanding they vote for you by offering them policies they want! And generally not being hostile to these people you want support from.
But alas. The Democrats still haven't learned. They think they can treat progressives like shit then stomp and yell and bully them into voting blue because Trump.
We hear this Every. Four. Years. Vote blue no matter who! Democracy is at stake. Enough is enough. I'm not voting for you! I do not agree with your policies. And you do not want me in your party.
DP.
I’m a left-leaning independent.
If the Dems move any further left, I’ll stay home.
Quite the conundrum for the party, I’d say.
What do you suggest?
Don't know. Sounds like we don't belong in the same party. But the Dems are a center right party these days. You used to be what we called a Republican. They aren't left of anything. You can have 'em.
Dems like you are the reason Dems like me, aren’t really Dems anymore. I’m still a registered Democrat, been one my whole life. Grew up in a union home, member of a union today. Our party is definitely NOT center-right. I’m center/slightly left, and I feel almost like a total outsider now. I can’t tell if you’re being facetious or you’re really serious (and woefully misinformed) when you say the party is center-right. Because it most definitely is not. My father was a lifelong Democrat and union shop steward and poll worker, and I am absolutely certain he’d be ridiculed and run out of the party if he were alive today.
I like Joe. But I’m alarmed at some of the people who seem to be influencing him and running things for him. And I think he’s past his prime. He would’ve been fabulous a decade ago. But between the direction I see the party going and Joe’s performance, I’m not voting this time. And yes, I realize that incrementally increases the odds of DeSantis winning. But I think maybe a loss is the wake up call that Democrats need right now, to bring the party back towards the middle and reacquire people like me. Because there are a lot of us out here.
Anonymous
10/30/2023 10:34
Subject: Re:To people frustrated with Biden who say they won’t vote in 2024
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You know, I remember quite a few Bernie female stans who didn't want to vote for Hillary in 2016 because of their conscience. They are very upset now about losing their right to bodily autonomy.
Vote for whomever you want, but be prepared to deal with the consequences, because either Biden or Trump will be president. And don't whine afterwards.
Tired of dealing with privileged narcissists.
You’re right there’s a lesson here but it isn’t for the people who voted for Bernie. The lesson is for the Democratic Party:
No One Owes You Votes. It is simply not enough to not be Donald Trump. Hilary Clinton proved that in 2016 and yet here everyone is in 2023 with a year left to make different choices all ready to blame, not the candidate, but the voters they’re failing to reach.
Work harder. And look at 2016 as a cautionary tale.
With all that's going on in the world right now, I think most people are willing to jump on board with a movement towards a presidential candidate that is actually fit to serve from 2025 through 2029. They are out there. We must demand it.
Or...and get this...you could make them want to vote for you rather than demanding they vote for you by offering them policies they want! And generally not being hostile to these people you want support from.
But alas. The Democrats still haven't learned. They think they can treat progressives like shit then stomp and yell and bully them into voting blue because Trump.
We hear this Every. Four. Years. Vote blue no matter who! Democracy is at stake. Enough is enough. I'm not voting for you! I do not agree with your policies. And you do not want me in your party.
DP.
I’m a left-leaning independent.
If the Dems move any further left, I’ll stay home.
Quite the conundrum for the party, I’d say.
What do you suggest?
Don't know. Sounds like we don't belong in the same party. But the Dems are a center right party these days. You used to be what we called a Republican. They aren't left of anything. You can have 'em.
Wow. You’re a true iconoclast. The Democrats don’t deserve to have someone as real as you are. We should all look to you for how to structure a party for positive change.
I’m seeing unkempt grey hair, stale patchouli funk and a voter who long ago abandoned the Democratic Party which could have made a positive change in the world. They just didn’t have the purity you demanded and so you decided to hell with the world, to hell with women and rape victims and a world slowly burning… the only sane option wasn’t pure enough.
Anonymous
10/30/2023 10:29
Subject: To people frustrated with Biden who say they won’t vote in 2024
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If you live in a state that was at all a close Biden victory, just know that you are making it more likely that Trump will win again.
Be frustrated all you want, but ask yourself whether it’s worth a second Trump term.
Yes, well worth it!
There are many of us who see clearly that the difference between Biden and Trump is much less than the MSNBC/NPR/etc crowds imagined it to be. Dealing our big problems can’t start soon enough, but won’t come until the Democrats upgrade themselves enough to attract bigger majorities.
You’re so clearly a Republican.