Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don't understand why this tread is still going on.

The summer swim season is so short. Are you really going to have a kid who was 8 at the start of the season and swam time trials as an 8 year old have to swim 50s for maybe the last 2-3 weeks of the season if they have an early July birthday? How does that even make sense?

The year round swim season is longer so I get that their policy is you age up on the day of your birthday. There aren't time trials and a ladder involved. As a team rep, I can't get my head around how we would handle a kid aging up in the middle of the season and needing new times.

Also one of my kids has the "perfect summer swim birthday" and it really hasn't given my kid a huge advantage because my child is already small for their age. Its not this magical advangate everyone seems to think it is. And with a two year age group, things even out every other year. This thread is seriously making my head hurt! Get over it!

If the cut-off date changed from June 1 to August 1 next year, you'd immediately see how much of an advantage it was for the kids who aged up by two years. Say the average 10 year old is improving by 3 seconds a year. If they age up by two years next year, they'd need to improve by 6 seconds next year just to keep up. Otherwise they'd fall 3 seconds behind the pack, which might not seem like much now but add 3 seconds to every event for an average 10 year old and see how many places that costs them every week.

What are you talking about? There would still be a whole bunch of August, September, and October kids swimming.

I have one kid who has a really “bad” birthday for summer swim and one kid who has a “good” birthday for summer swim.

I also know a kid who has a really bad soccer birthday (December) and a kid who has a really good soccer birthday (January).

I can name lots of other sports where this is the case.

It’s the nature of team sports.

I get that you want your child to have an advantage, but you really just have to accept that in this case, your child doesn’t.

I actually think the only people who would complain would be club swim parents. They expect their kid to beat everyone and when they don’t, they have to blame it on something. Summer-only swim parents - swim isn’t their thing - so they don’t care so much about it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don't understand why this tread is still going on.

The summer swim season is so short. Are you really going to have a kid who was 8 at the start of the season and swam time trials as an 8 year old have to swim 50s for maybe the last 2-3 weeks of the season if they have an early July birthday? How does that even make sense?

The year round swim season is longer so I get that their policy is you age up on the day of your birthday. There aren't time trials and a ladder involved. As a team rep, I can't get my head around how we would handle a kid aging up in the middle of the season and needing new times.

Also one of my kids has the "perfect summer swim birthday" and it really hasn't given my kid a huge advantage because my child is already small for their age. Its not this magical advangate everyone seems to think it is. And with a two year age group, things even out every other year. This thread is seriously making my head hurt! Get over it!

If the cut-off date changed from June 1 to August 1 next year, you'd immediately see how much of an advantage it was for the kids who aged up by two years. Say the average 10 year old is improving by 3 seconds a year. If they age up by two years next year, they'd need to improve by 6 seconds next year just to keep up. Otherwise they'd fall 3 seconds behind the pack, which might not seem like much now but add 3 seconds to every event for an average 10 year old and see how many places that costs them every week.

Anonymous wrote:I still don't understand why this tread is still going on.

The summer swim season is so short. Are you really going to have a kid who was 8 at the start of the season and swam time trials as an 8 year old have to swim 50s for maybe the last 2-3 weeks of the season if they have an early July birthday? How does that even make sense?

The year round swim season is longer so I get that their policy is you age up on the day of your birthday. There aren't time trials and a ladder involved. As a team rep, I can't get my head around how we would handle a kid aging up in the middle of the season and needing new times.

Also one of my kids has the "perfect summer swim birthday" and it really hasn't given my kid a huge advantage because my child is already small for their age. Its not this magical advangate everyone seems to think it is. And with a two year age group, things even out every other year. This thread is seriously making my head hurt! Get over it!

Anonymous wrote:"actually don’t think most of the people complaining are club parents. My kid has the worst summer swim birthday but because she swims year round and is talented, she is going to beat most kids in her age group even in the year she is at the lower end. This is the case for most good club swimmers. Sometimes when she is at the lower end there are some kids that are 2 years older than her that beat her, but that’s the nature of competition, which club parents are used to because it happens whenever their kid ages up."

As a parent whose 3 children are just about to start swim, and have always played travel baseball, this same thing is discussed in the stands. What we have noticed is that the parents who are more fixated on it have what we call "bubble kids". Average to maybe a little below average skill for their baseball age, and are usually on the younger side for that age group. We’ve been around youth sports long enough to see that sometimes it’s the bubble kids that have to work harder at the younger ages that eventually end up being the better players once the puberty fairy shows up. Not always, but enough that we’ve noticed.
I’ve read this entire thread and the one from last year on the same topic and I still can’t figure swim birthdays out.
So, what are the good swim birthdays for summer and club? Am I reading right that the age groups are more fluid in Club swim?
Our kids that will be starting swim have March, July, and August birthdays.
Thanks!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"actually don’t think most of the people complaining are club parents. My kid has the worst summer swim birthday but because she swims year round and is talented, she is going to beat most kids in her age group even in the year she is at the lower end. This is the case for most good club swimmers. Sometimes when she is at the lower end there are some kids that are 2 years older than her that beat her, but that’s the nature of competition, which club parents are used to because it happens whenever their kid ages up."

As a parent whose 3 children are just about to start swim, and have always played travel baseball, this same thing is discussed in the stands. What we have noticed is that the parents who are more fixated on it have what we call "bubble kids". Average to maybe a little below average skill for their baseball age, and are usually on the younger side for that age group. We’ve been around youth sports long enough to see that sometimes it’s the bubble kids that have to work harder at the younger ages that eventually end up being the better players once the puberty fairy shows up. Not always, but enough that we’ve noticed.
I’ve read this entire thread and the one from last year on the same topic and I still can’t figure swim birthdays out.
So, what are the good swim birthdays for summer and club? Am I reading right that the age groups are more fluid in Club swim?
Our kids that will be starting swim have March, July, and August birthdays.
Thanks!

March and July depend very much on whether the birthday falls early or late in the month. August is the perfect swim birthday. The best would be August/September or late March/April. My club swimmer has the worst swim birthday (February), but still manages to qualify for JOs, NCSA, Zones etc (though not win). I think in the long run this will be good for him because he is forced to have a lot of grit and work much harder than those with the lucky birthdays. But it is definitely hard in the moment!

Anonymous wrote:"actually don’t think most of the people complaining are club parents. My kid has the worst summer swim birthday but because she swims year round and is talented, she is going to beat most kids in her age group even in the year she is at the lower end. This is the case for most good club swimmers. Sometimes when she is at the lower end there are some kids that are 2 years older than her that beat her, but that’s the nature of competition, which club parents are used to because it happens whenever their kid ages up."

As a parent whose 3 children are just about to start swim, and have always played travel baseball, this same thing is discussed in the stands. What we have noticed is that the parents who are more fixated on it have what we call "bubble kids". Average to maybe a little below average skill for their baseball age, and are usually on the younger side for that age group. We’ve been around youth sports long enough to see that sometimes it’s the bubble kids that have to work harder at the younger ages that eventually end up being the better players once the puberty fairy shows up. Not always, but enough that we’ve noticed.
I’ve read this entire thread and the one from last year on the same topic and I still can’t figure swim birthdays out.
So, what are the good swim birthdays for summer and club? Am I reading right that the age groups are more fluid in Club swim?
Our kids that will be starting swim have March, July, and August birthdays.
Thanks!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don't see why having an August 1st cutoff date is a non starter? Wouldn't that solve this entire debate?

No it would just change the groups of kids advantaged and disadvantaged.

I heard the reason they put 6/1 as the cut off is so the kids would be the same age for the entire summer swim season. I don't think an 8/1 cut off would help fix that problem. 6/1 is the only one that works.

8/1 would work the same. Whatever age you would be on 8/1 is the age you swim for the whole season. So instead of kids with June/July birthdays swimming down to the age they were on June 1st, they would swim up to the age they will be on August 1st. It disadvantages the summer birthday kids though, instead of the current advantage they get.

But isn't that just as arbitrary? What does it fix over picking 6/1?

I didn’t say it would fix anything, I was responding to an incorrect post that stated using 6/1 was the only way someone would swim in the same age group the whole season. 6/1 and 8/1 are equally arbitrary. I find the passion people have for the 6/1 deadline to be a little over the top though given that it is just as arbitrary as 8/1. My club swimmer, a May birthday kid, could not care less about the cutoff. It’s summer swim, she’s a top swimmer regardless. She cares more that she has a good club short course season birthday.

Here's the thing. I probably come across as passionate. But what I really feel strongly is that people who sense that someone else has something and then throw a tantrum shouldn't get things changed in their favor. I mean someone is going to benefit. I'm not saying it should or shouldn't be my kids, but someone else throwing a tantrum to get it changed so that their kid has the benefit and making up stuff about how "all the rest of swimming does it this way" when they don't, and saying horrible things about kids who legitimately win and set records shouldn't win by getting it changed so their kid is the one who happens to be advantaged. Like I don't really care what the date is, except I don't want it to be whatever benefits horrible people like OP.

And then the fact that most of the people who are whining seem to be kids who swim club and rec, which is seen as cheating in pretty much every other sport, is so ironic.

As someone whose kid does club and summer I do see your point on the last comment. For us, it was summer swim that led DC to want to do club so they could improve for summer. If doing club prohibited summer, I imagine you’d see a lot lower PVS registrations and a lot more for organizations like Swim Farm, Norman etc.

To be clear, I think the club kids should be welcome. But I am just pointing out that when a kid who has a billion hours of expensive coaching loses to my kid who only swims summer and then whines that it doesn’t have anything to do with my kid’s hard work or talent and wouldn’t count if we did things the way USA swimming does it, I get annoyed.

That’s not the child’s fault for winning, it’s your fault for not doing year round swim.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don't see why having an August 1st cutoff date is a non starter? Wouldn't that solve this entire debate?

No it would just change the groups of kids advantaged and disadvantaged.

I heard the reason they put 6/1 as the cut off is so the kids would be the same age for the entire summer swim season. I don't think an 8/1 cut off would help fix that problem. 6/1 is the only one that works.

8/1 would work the same. Whatever age you would be on 8/1 is the age you swim for the whole season. So instead of kids with June/July birthdays swimming down to the age they were on June 1st, they would swim up to the age they will be on August 1st. It disadvantages the summer birthday kids though, instead of the current advantage they get.

But isn't that just as arbitrary? What does it fix over picking 6/1?

I didn’t say it would fix anything, I was responding to an incorrect post that stated using 6/1 was the only way someone would swim in the same age group the whole season. 6/1 and 8/1 are equally arbitrary. I find the passion people have for the 6/1 deadline to be a little over the top though given that it is just as arbitrary as 8/1. My club swimmer, a May birthday kid, could not care less about the cutoff. It’s summer swim, she’s a top swimmer regardless. She cares more that she has a good club short course season birthday.

Here's the thing. I probably come across as passionate. But what I really feel strongly is that people who sense that someone else has something and then throw a tantrum shouldn't get things changed in their favor. I mean someone is going to benefit. I'm not saying it should or shouldn't be my kids, but someone else throwing a tantrum to get it changed so that their kid has the benefit and making up stuff about how "all the rest of swimming does it this way" when they don't, and saying horrible things about kids who legitimately win and set records shouldn't win by getting it changed so their kid is the one who happens to be advantaged. Like I don't really care what the date is, except I don't want it to be whatever benefits horrible people like OP.

And then the fact that most of the people who are whining seem to be kids who swim club and rec, which is seen as cheating in pretty much every other sport, is so ironic.

As someone whose kid does club and summer I do see your point on the last comment. For us, it was summer swim that led DC to want to do club so they could improve for summer. If doing club prohibited summer, I imagine you’d see a lot lower PVS registrations and a lot more for organizations like Swim Farm, Norman etc.

To be clear, I think the club kids should be welcome. But I am just pointing out that when a kid who has a billion hours of expensive coaching loses to my kid who only swims summer and then whines that it doesn’t have anything to do with my kid’s hard work or talent and wouldn’t count if we did things the way USA swimming does it, I get annoyed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don't see why having an August 1st cutoff date is a non starter? Wouldn't that solve this entire debate?

No it would just change the groups of kids advantaged and disadvantaged.

I heard the reason they put 6/1 as the cut off is so the kids would be the same age for the entire summer swim season. I don't think an 8/1 cut off would help fix that problem. 6/1 is the only one that works.

8/1 would work the same. Whatever age you would be on 8/1 is the age you swim for the whole season. So instead of kids with June/July birthdays swimming down to the age they were on June 1st, they would swim up to the age they will be on August 1st. It disadvantages the summer birthday kids though, instead of the current advantage they get.

But isn't that just as arbitrary? What does it fix over picking 6/1?

I didn’t say it would fix anything, I was responding to an incorrect post that stated using 6/1 was the only way someone would swim in the same age group the whole season. 6/1 and 8/1 are equally arbitrary. I find the passion people have for the 6/1 deadline to be a little over the top though given that it is just as arbitrary as 8/1. My club swimmer, a May birthday kid, could not care less about the cutoff. It’s summer swim, she’s a top swimmer regardless. She cares more that she has a good club short course season birthday.

Here's the thing. I probably come across as passionate. But what I really feel strongly is that people who sense that someone else has something and then throw a tantrum shouldn't get things changed in their favor. I mean someone is going to benefit. I'm not saying it should or shouldn't be my kids, but someone else throwing a tantrum to get it changed so that their kid has the benefit and making up stuff about how "all the rest of swimming does it this way" when they don't, and saying horrible things about kids who legitimately win and set records shouldn't win by getting it changed so their kid is the one who happens to be advantaged. Like I don't really care what the date is, except I don't want it to be whatever benefits horrible people like OP.

And then the fact that most of the people who are whining seem to be kids who swim club and rec, which is seen as cheating in pretty much every other sport, is so ironic.

As someone whose kid does club and summer I do see your point on the last comment. For us, it was summer swim that led DC to want to do club so they could improve for summer. If doing club prohibited summer, I imagine you’d see a lot lower PVS registrations and a lot more for organizations like Swim Farm, Norman etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don't see why having an August 1st cutoff date is a non starter? Wouldn't that solve this entire debate?

No it would just change the groups of kids advantaged and disadvantaged.

I heard the reason they put 6/1 as the cut off is so the kids would be the same age for the entire summer swim season. I don't think an 8/1 cut off would help fix that problem. 6/1 is the only one that works.

8/1 would work the same. Whatever age you would be on 8/1 is the age you swim for the whole season. So instead of kids with June/July birthdays swimming down to the age they were on June 1st, they would swim up to the age they will be on August 1st. It disadvantages the summer birthday kids though, instead of the current advantage they get.

But isn't that just as arbitrary? What does it fix over picking 6/1?

I didn’t say it would fix anything, I was responding to an incorrect post that stated using 6/1 was the only way someone would swim in the same age group the whole season. 6/1 and 8/1 are equally arbitrary. I find the passion people have for the 6/1 deadline to be a little over the top though given that it is just as arbitrary as 8/1. My club swimmer, a May birthday kid, could not care less about the cutoff. It’s summer swim, she’s a top swimmer regardless. She cares more that she has a good club short course season birthday.

Here's the thing. I probably come across as passionate. But what I really feel strongly is that people who sense that someone else has something and then throw a tantrum shouldn't get things changed in their favor. I mean someone is going to benefit. I'm not saying it should or shouldn't be my kids, but someone else throwing a tantrum to get it changed so that their kid has the benefit and making up stuff about how "all the rest of swimming does it this way" when they don't, and saying horrible things about kids who legitimately win and set records shouldn't win by getting it changed so their kid is the one who happens to be advantaged. Like I don't really care what the date is, except I don't want it to be whatever benefits horrible people like OP.

And then the fact that most of the people who are whining seem to be kids who swim club and rec, which is seen as cheating in pretty much every other sport, is so ironic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don't see why having an August 1st cutoff date is a non starter? Wouldn't that solve this entire debate?

No it would just change the groups of kids advantaged and disadvantaged.

I heard the reason they put 6/1 as the cut off is so the kids would be the same age for the entire summer swim season. I don't think an 8/1 cut off would help fix that problem. 6/1 is the only one that works.

8/1 would work the same. Whatever age you would be on 8/1 is the age you swim for the whole season. So instead of kids with June/July birthdays swimming down to the age they were on June 1st, they would swim up to the age they will be on August 1st. It disadvantages the summer birthday kids though, instead of the current advantage they get.

But isn't that just as arbitrary? What does it fix over picking 6/1?

I didn’t say it would fix anything, I was responding to an incorrect post that stated using 6/1 was the only way someone would swim in the same age group the whole season. 6/1 and 8/1 are equally arbitrary. I find the passion people have for the 6/1 deadline to be a little over the top though given that it is just as arbitrary as 8/1. My club swimmer, a May birthday kid, could not care less about the cutoff. It’s summer swim, she’s a top swimmer regardless. She cares more that she has a good club short course season birthday.

Here's the thing. I probably come across as passionate. But what I really feel strongly is that people who sense that someone else has something and then throw a tantrum shouldn't get things changed in their favor. I mean someone is going to benefit. I'm not saying it should or shouldn't be my kids, but someone else throwing a tantrum to get it changed so that their kid has the benefit and making up stuff about how "all the rest of swimming does it this way" when they don't, and saying horrible things about kids who legitimately win and set records shouldn't win by getting it changed so their kid is the one who happens to be advantaged. Like I don't really care what the date is, except I don't want it to be whatever benefits horrible people like OP.

And then the fact that most of the people who are whining seem to be kids who swim club and rec, which is seen as cheating in pretty much every other sport, is so ironic.

As someone whose kid does club and summer I do see your point on the last comment. For us, it was summer swim that led DC to want to do club so they could improve for summer. If doing club prohibited summer, I imagine you’d see a lot lower PVS registrations and a lot more for organizations like Swim Farm, Norman etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don't see why having an August 1st cutoff date is a non starter? Wouldn't that solve this entire debate?

No it would just change the groups of kids advantaged and disadvantaged.

I heard the reason they put 6/1 as the cut off is so the kids would be the same age for the entire summer swim season. I don't think an 8/1 cut off would help fix that problem. 6/1 is the only one that works.

8/1 would work the same. Whatever age you would be on 8/1 is the age you swim for the whole season. So instead of kids with June/July birthdays swimming down to the age they were on June 1st, they would swim up to the age they will be on August 1st. It disadvantages the summer birthday kids though, instead of the current advantage they get.

But isn't that just as arbitrary? What does it fix over picking 6/1?

I didn’t say it would fix anything, I was responding to an incorrect post that stated using 6/1 was the only way someone would swim in the same age group the whole season. 6/1 and 8/1 are equally arbitrary. I find the passion people have for the 6/1 deadline to be a little over the top though given that it is just as arbitrary as 8/1. My club swimmer, a May birthday kid, could not care less about the cutoff. It’s summer swim, she’s a top swimmer regardless. She cares more that she has a good club short course season birthday.

Here's the thing. I probably come across as passionate. But what I really feel strongly is that people who sense that someone else has something and then throw a tantrum shouldn't get things changed in their favor. I mean someone is going to benefit. I'm not saying it should or shouldn't be my kids, but someone else throwing a tantrum to get it changed so that their kid has the benefit and making up stuff about how "all the rest of swimming does it this way" when they don't, and saying horrible things about kids who legitimately win and set records shouldn't win by getting it changed so their kid is the one who happens to be advantaged. Like I don't really care what the date is, except I don't want it to be whatever benefits horrible people like OP.

And then the fact that most of the people who are whining seem to be kids who swim club and rec, which is seen as cheating in pretty much every other sport, is so ironic.