Anonymous
05/09/2023 10:37
Subject: Re:Companies are on the war path against remote work
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Young employees (new grads) hate WFH.
No they don't. That's just something micromanaging boomers in worthless middle management positions say without any evidence to support their claims.
Younger workers have also never done commutes for 10-20 years yet and don't have kids. Let's hear their opinions when they get closer to 40 and have wasted thousands of hours of their lives sitting in traffic or taking public transportation just to get to work.
My 22 year old daughter moved to Boston by her office for her job. They promised RTO but boomers keep pushing it back. She plans on quitting next year if no RT0. How can she learn sitting in her tiny rental by herself?
The same as if she were in the office. Really. She should volunteer for work, ask for more work, attend meetings, schedule follow-up meetings to ask Qs since she is new, etc. It should not be any different. The world is not moving away from virtual so someone like your daughter needs to learn how to use technology to get what she needs out of her job. Someone who can’t message someone on Teams to ask if she can help with something isn’t necessarily going to be able to stop by someone’s office and ask the same question.
It's different. The lack of in-person meetings and spontaneous interactions makes it harder to build real connections, and those connections matter both for doing your job well and future networking. For me, WFH is still worth it because I have kids, I already have a strong network, and I have in-person professional events not tied to my current job. But if you're young, you miss out on a lot.
Anonymous
05/09/2023 10:29
Subject: Companies are on the war path against remote work
WFH is bringing out who the real workers are because the ideas are more traceable with a digital footprint.
Anonymous
05/09/2023 10:23
Subject: Re:Companies are on the war path against remote work
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Young employees (new grads) hate WFH.
No they don't. That's just something micromanaging boomers in worthless middle management positions say without any evidence to support their claims.
Younger workers have also never done commutes for 10-20 years yet and don't have kids. Let's hear their opinions when they get closer to 40 and have wasted thousands of hours of their lives sitting in traffic or taking public transportation just to get to work.
My 22 year old daughter moved to Boston by her office for her job. They promised RTO but boomers keep pushing it back. She plans on quitting next year if no RT0. How can she learn sitting in her tiny rental by herself?
The same as if she were in the office. Really. She should volunteer for work, ask for more work, attend meetings, schedule follow-up meetings to ask Qs since she is new, etc. It should not be any different. The world is not moving away from virtual so someone like your daughter needs to learn how to use technology to get what she needs out of her job. Someone who can’t message someone on Teams to ask if she can help with something isn’t necessarily going to be able to stop by someone’s office and ask the same question.
Anonymous
05/09/2023 09:55
Subject: Companies are on the war path against remote work
My company is still allowing hybrid or full WFH; it's basically the individual line manager's call as to what works best for their team. We recently moved offices and the new office does not appear to have enough desk space for the whole D.C. contingent to work onsite, so the company likely has planned for WFH over the long term, reasoning that many employees aren't going to want to go onsite every day if they're not required to.
However, I have noticed a general shift back to the office, speaking with family members and friends who work elsewhere. DH's company has recently ordered everyone back into the office 2x a week (which is fine with him, he prefers the office to WFH). Beltway traffic in the AM and PM appears to be just as bad as pre-pandemic levels.
However, I have noticed a general shift back to the office, speaking with family members and friends who work elsewhere. DH's company has recently ordered everyone back into the office 2x a week (which is fine with him, he prefers the office to WFH). Beltway traffic in the AM and PM appears to be just as bad as pre-pandemic levels.
Anonymous
05/09/2023 09:29
Subject: Re:Companies are on the war path against remote work
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Young employees (new grads) hate WFH.
No they don't. That's just something micromanaging boomers in worthless middle management positions say without any evidence to support their claims.
Younger workers have also never done commutes for 10-20 years yet and don't have kids. Let's hear their opinions when they get closer to 40 and have wasted thousands of hours of their lives sitting in traffic or taking public transportation just to get to work.
My 22 year old daughter moved to Boston by her office for her job. They promised RTO but boomers keep pushing it back. She plans on quitting next year if no RT0. How can she learn sitting in her tiny rental by herself?
Anonymous
05/09/2023 09:02
Subject: Re:Companies are on the war path against remote work
Anonymous wrote:Young employees (new grads) hate WFH.
No they don't. That's just something micromanaging boomers in worthless middle management positions say without any evidence to support their claims.
Younger workers have also never done commutes for 10-20 years yet and don't have kids. Let's hear their opinions when they get closer to 40 and have wasted thousands of hours of their lives sitting in traffic or taking public transportation just to get to work.
Anonymous
05/09/2023 08:47
Subject: Companies are on the war path against remote work
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Only on this forum is it a criticism to say that people like WFH because of their kids. Is it a bad thing that parents aren’t burning two hours per day commuting when they could be spending it with their kids.
This country is a trip…..
It’s not just the kids. It’s also the dogs.
Hybrid snd flexibility to adjust would be the best. Very few are insisting on a five day RTO. It’s the ones that are insisting on complete WFH that are the loudest.
While there may be a few people who want total WFH, I think the bigger issue is that people just don't trust their company/managers right now. Because the guidance and rules are constantly shifting. Last year it was "just come in one day per week so we can all collaborate and get to know each other again" Then 2 days. Now 3 or 4. It seems pretty obvious that *some* managers from *some* companies won't be happy until things are back to how they were in 2019. Which wasn't great for anyone, as a rule. It would be such a sad outcome to have gone through the last three years and have learned *nothing* and have nothing at all change in the end.
Anonymous
05/09/2023 08:39
Subject: Companies are on the war path against remote work
My job which went 100 percent RTO has one blessing almost no meetings.
With everyone in I can just pop my head into HR, Accounting, IT get question answered in two seconds. Or I can shoot email and say swing by when free for a minute.
I had hybrid pre Covid and every meeting who is in office, set up zoom, book ahead of time, check calendars. We also had Flex Time so even if in some started early left early and some started late and left late.
It does suck commuting five days a week but office runs so much smoother. But I do notice new hires live much closer to work. Yes imagine that!! If you say 100 percent in person with set work hours people live close to office. All at once commute less of issue. It does greatly lower hiring pool and harder HR.
Nothing is perfect
With everyone in I can just pop my head into HR, Accounting, IT get question answered in two seconds. Or I can shoot email and say swing by when free for a minute.
I had hybrid pre Covid and every meeting who is in office, set up zoom, book ahead of time, check calendars. We also had Flex Time so even if in some started early left early and some started late and left late.
It does suck commuting five days a week but office runs so much smoother. But I do notice new hires live much closer to work. Yes imagine that!! If you say 100 percent in person with set work hours people live close to office. All at once commute less of issue. It does greatly lower hiring pool and harder HR.
Nothing is perfect
Anonymous
05/09/2023 08:19
Subject: Companies are on the war path against remote work
Anonymous wrote:Only on this forum is it a criticism to say that people like WFH because of their kids. Is it a bad thing that parents aren’t burning two hours per day commuting when they could be spending it with their kids.
This country is a trip…..
It’s not just the kids. It’s also the dogs.
Hybrid snd flexibility to adjust would be the best. Very few are insisting on a five day RTO. It’s the ones that are insisting on complete WFH that are the loudest.
Anonymous
05/09/2023 07:46
Subject: Companies are on the war path against remote work
Only on this forum is it a criticism to say that people like WFH because of their kids. Is it a bad thing that parents aren’t burning two hours per day commuting when they could be spending it with their kids.
This country is a trip…..
This country is a trip…..
Anonymous
05/09/2023 07:44
Subject: Re:Companies are on the war path against remote work
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Young employees (new grads) hate WFH.
That’s because they don’t know what the 9-5 in office grind really is. They also have no outside obligations other than happy hour, and have started work in a world with 1/3 the rush hour traffic.
They know not what they wish for, it’s adorbs.
I know several, who still somehow want to work from home, even though they have no friends, don’t date, don’t build any interpersonal skills at work, and are somewhat depressed.
It’s really people with kids who are pushing for this or people who have long commutes and believe so completely that it benefits their company because someone they are the absolute most important people at the office and will quit if it changes. Some will, but we all know many are full of crap. A year ago it was all about germs. Now they admit it isn’t about germs but need some other reason. No one cares how far away you live.
WFH is good for YOU. If you can’t argue that it’s best for everyone….because you can’t…..because literally nothing is best for everyone…..then you can’t argue it’s best. Running a company is a different job than what you do. I agree with PPs who have said everyone has preferences. Companies will decide what they want and the employees will accordingly shift. Those arguments you’re all making about money moving to suburban economies and the economy will adjust? Yeah, well so will the work force. Don’t believe someone isn’t behind you wanting what your job. Just go find another one.
DP. I don’t get your point. If you can’t argue work from home is best for everyone, because nothing is best for everyone, then you can’t argue that coming back in the office is best for everyone for the same reason… Nothing is best for everyone.
What most companies are going back to is a hybrid or flexible model so that everyone can make it work.
What you are not acknowledging is the the open floor plan Model was in a major crisis before the pandemic. All kinds of evidence was coming up, showing that it hurts productivity and hurts collaboration. So hybrid makes a lot of sense because people can get together for more group work, and be in their own spaces for the work that doesn’t take as much collaboration.
Yes and my point is that hybrid works somewhat best for most people. That’s exactly my argument.
People in this thread and throughout my organization are vehemently opposed to any time in the office at all.
Anonymous
05/09/2023 07:29
Subject: Re:Companies are on the war path against remote work
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Young employees (new grads) hate WFH.
That’s because they don’t know what the 9-5 in office grind really is. They also have no outside obligations other than happy hour, and have started work in a world with 1/3 the rush hour traffic.
They know not what they wish for, it’s adorbs.
I know several, who still somehow want to work from home, even though they have no friends, don’t date, don’t build any interpersonal skills at work, and are somewhat depressed.
It’s really people with kids who are pushing for this or people who have long commutes and believe so completely that it benefits their company because someone they are the absolute most important people at the office and will quit if it changes. Some will, but we all know many are full of crap. A year ago it was all about germs. Now they admit it isn’t about germs but need some other reason. No one cares how far away you live.
WFH is good for YOU. If you can’t argue that it’s best for everyone….because you can’t…..because literally nothing is best for everyone…..then you can’t argue it’s best. Running a company is a different job than what you do. I agree with PPs who have said everyone has preferences. Companies will decide what they want and the employees will accordingly shift. Those arguments you’re all making about money moving to suburban economies and the economy will adjust? Yeah, well so will the work force. Don’t believe someone isn’t behind you wanting what your job. Just go find another one.
DP. I don’t get your point. If you can’t argue work from home is best for everyone, because nothing is best for everyone, then you can’t argue that coming back in the office is best for everyone for the same reason… Nothing is best for everyone.
What most companies are going back to is a hybrid or flexible model so that everyone can make it work.
What you are not acknowledging is the the open floor plan Model was in a major crisis before the pandemic. All kinds of evidence was coming up, showing that it hurts productivity and hurts collaboration. So hybrid makes a lot of sense because people can get together for more group work, and be in their own spaces for the work that doesn’t take as much collaboration.
Anonymous
05/09/2023 07:06
Subject: Re:Companies are on the war path against remote work
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Young employees (new grads) hate WFH.
As someone with power in my company over WFH, then they can come into the office, any time (though it is SUPER dead on Fridays). I'm in tech BTW.
We provide catered lunches Monday through Wednesday. We definitely see people who love to come in and we encourage it. But we don't have room for everyone. So we are happy that many want to WFH and come in for meetings or retreats (Which we fund. We encourage teams to get together but understand the days of coming into an office to work in an open floor plans with headphones and a laptop are behind us).
I like the hybrid model but I used to have an office and I don't anymore. That is fine, but I plan my comings and goings around meetings because the office is not as good for non meeting work. And I like to get in early and usually leave early and I've noticed that is a pattern as well. People like to leave before rush hour.
I am an advocate for hybrid and I would love this set up. I wouldn’t even need the food, but the flexibility and planned collaboration time seems ideal.
Anonymous
05/09/2023 07:03
Subject: Re:Companies are on the war path against remote work
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Young employees (new grads) hate WFH.
That’s because they don’t know what the 9-5 in office grind really is. They also have no outside obligations other than happy hour, and have started work in a world with 1/3 the rush hour traffic.
They know not what they wish for, it’s adorbs.
I know several, who still somehow want to work from home, even though they have no friends, don’t date, don’t build any interpersonal skills at work, and are somewhat depressed.
It’s really people with kids who are pushing for this or people who have long commutes and believe so completely that it benefits their company because someone they are the absolute most important people at the office and will quit if it changes. Some will, but we all know many are full of crap. A year ago it was all about germs. Now they admit it isn’t about germs but need some other reason. No one cares how far away you live.
WFH is good for YOU. If you can’t argue that it’s best for everyone….because you can’t…..because literally nothing is best for everyone…..then you can’t argue it’s best. Running a company is a different job than what you do. I agree with PPs who have said everyone has preferences. Companies will decide what they want and the employees will accordingly shift. Those arguments you’re all making about money moving to suburban economies and the economy will adjust? Yeah, well so will the work force. Don’t believe someone isn’t behind you wanting what your job. Just go find another one.
Anonymous
05/09/2023 00:36
Subject: Re:Companies are on the war path against remote work
Anonymous wrote:Young employees (new grads) hate WFH.
That’s because they don’t know what the 9-5 in office grind really is. They also have no outside obligations other than happy hour, and have started work in a world with 1/3 the rush hour traffic.
They know not what they wish for, it’s adorbs.