Anonymous
06/01/2023 11:19
Subject: Re:Madison H.S. Parents - Principal Survey and Skills-Based Grading
It’s terrible.
It’s terrible it applies to almost no FCPS schools.
It’s terrible that it was implemented with no input from parents or students beforehand.
It’s terrible that the school system will not address whether grades for many kids will go down, except for the lowest performing kids.
The videos referenced by the principal state it’s to help kids who can’t do their homework. How many kids are like that at this high school?
NO one can say this is great…because it hasn’t started yet.
It’s terrible it applies to almost no FCPS schools.
It’s terrible that it was implemented with no input from parents or students beforehand.
It’s terrible that the school system will not address whether grades for many kids will go down, except for the lowest performing kids.
The videos referenced by the principal state it’s to help kids who can’t do their homework. How many kids are like that at this high school?
NO one can say this is great…because it hasn’t started yet.
Anonymous
06/01/2023 09:05
Subject: Re:Madison H.S. Parents - Principal Survey and Skills-Based Grading
The discussion has been good with the exception of one person committing a logical fallacy: Ad Hominem. I notice that proponents of SBG don't have much to back up what they are saying, and they can't answer specific questions: "I'll get to that" or "to answer the question..." but what follows is not an answer just a word salad to burn the clock. The anonymous poster goes a step further calling us crazy and stupid, says she personally doesn't care either way, yet seems to have a vested interest.
The poster that has called us "morons," "chicken littles" and "crazy," and has said not to worry about our kids' education because her kid said he's doing just fine. She's not worried about anyone else. It's just a grading system.
We've pointed out specific reasons for concern: 1) SBG may demotivate students and lead them to procrastinate and learn later. 2)SBG may unfairly impact high-achieving students and devalue their hard work 3) SBG appears to impact students' mental health leading to frustration and anxiety 4) SBG may hide the achievement gap and result in passing on students thus robbing them of the education they deserve 5)SBG as a grading system may not motivate anyone to try their best
This next SB election is very important.
The poster that has called us "morons," "chicken littles" and "crazy," and has said not to worry about our kids' education because her kid said he's doing just fine. She's not worried about anyone else. It's just a grading system.
We've pointed out specific reasons for concern: 1) SBG may demotivate students and lead them to procrastinate and learn later. 2)SBG may unfairly impact high-achieving students and devalue their hard work 3) SBG appears to impact students' mental health leading to frustration and anxiety 4) SBG may hide the achievement gap and result in passing on students thus robbing them of the education they deserve 5)SBG as a grading system may not motivate anyone to try their best
This next SB election is very important.
Anonymous
05/31/2023 21:54
Subject: Re:Madison H.S. Parents - Principal Survey and Skills-Based Grading
People can say what they want here with Jeff as moderator. I think the discussion here has been good and civil and two college professors even agreed so I think your response is a bit over the top. People just don’t want the change. They think it’s a bad direction. And it’s new so they are allowed to think the school is going in a wrong new direction. It’s easier to stop something before people change over so it makes sense there would be a lot of comments now before implementation. Kudos to the community for saying they preferred the status quo. Which btw means no change for the school. Not exactly hammering the school by having that opinion.
Anonymous
05/31/2023 21:51
Subject: Madison H.S. Parents - Principal Survey and Skills-Based Grading
Anonymous wrote:What I'm seeing on THIS THREAD is ... C.R.A.Z.Y. Full stop crazy.
My kid is doing just fine. I'm not worried about what Madison is going to do for the kids who are close to failing out and need to be given more help to stay in school. Doesn't affect my kid. Kid is fine with the SBG. Does not see the big deal that you all are painting as a picture of dysfunction.
I understand that people can and do have opinions about things in their kids' lives... but the intensity and vitriol shown on here, as well as at the PTA mtg (and in the minutes) is just ... I don't even know what to call it other than ridiculously over the top. So freakin' dramatic.
Like all the phases and trends in education... they come and they go. They aren't the Main Thing. They might be distractions. They might be genius. But, they aren't going to change much about my kid's experience or what s/he learns. By the time kids are in HS -- esp. the upper levels -- their class content is what it is. I don't need to micro-manage the grading system.
If teachers have issues with it, then they can talk to the admins. But, as a parent with a kid who is doing just fine, I don't need to start picketting the school and writing all kinds of nasty-grams on DCUM about the sky falling down.
And really... the whole "you must be from Gatehouse" or "you HAVE TO BE an administrator" is getting trite. Expand your mind to consider that some people actually DON'T have the same opinions that you have. Maybe that's not how it has been done in your very narrow little social circles... but, surprise, surprise.... some people don't agree with you. Doesn't make their opinions less genuine just because you can't fathom the possibility of dissent.
Kindly suggest you ask this post be taken down and resubmit without the PTA reference. The comments at the PTA meeting were from a current student sharing their experience. I don’t think it is fair to call what was said as vitriolic (not even close).
Anonymous
05/31/2023 21:31
Subject: Madison H.S. Parents - Principal Survey and Skills-Based Grading
What I'm seeing on THIS THREAD is ... C.R.A.Z.Y. Full stop crazy.
My kid is doing just fine. I'm not worried about what Madison is going to do for the kids who are close to failing out and need to be given more help to stay in school. Doesn't affect my kid. Kid is fine with the SBG. Does not see the big deal that you all are painting as a picture of dysfunction.
I understand that people can and do have opinions about things in their kids' lives... but the intensity and vitriol shown on here, as well as at the PTA mtg (and in the minutes) is just ... I don't even know what to call it other than ridiculously over the top. So freakin' dramatic.
Like all the phases and trends in education... they come and they go. They aren't the Main Thing. They might be distractions. They might be genius. But, they aren't going to change much about my kid's experience or what s/he learns. By the time kids are in HS -- esp. the upper levels -- their class content is what it is. I don't need to micro-manage the grading system.
If teachers have issues with it, then they can talk to the admins. But, as a parent with a kid who is doing just fine, I don't need to start picketting the school and writing all kinds of nasty-grams on DCUM about the sky falling down.
And really... the whole "you must be from Gatehouse" or "you HAVE TO BE an administrator" is getting trite. Expand your mind to consider that some people actually DON'T have the same opinions that you have. Maybe that's not how it has been done in your very narrow little social circles... but, surprise, surprise.... some people don't agree with you. Doesn't make their opinions less genuine just because you can't fathom the possibility of dissent.
My kid is doing just fine. I'm not worried about what Madison is going to do for the kids who are close to failing out and need to be given more help to stay in school. Doesn't affect my kid. Kid is fine with the SBG. Does not see the big deal that you all are painting as a picture of dysfunction.
I understand that people can and do have opinions about things in their kids' lives... but the intensity and vitriol shown on here, as well as at the PTA mtg (and in the minutes) is just ... I don't even know what to call it other than ridiculously over the top. So freakin' dramatic.
Like all the phases and trends in education... they come and they go. They aren't the Main Thing. They might be distractions. They might be genius. But, they aren't going to change much about my kid's experience or what s/he learns. By the time kids are in HS -- esp. the upper levels -- their class content is what it is. I don't need to micro-manage the grading system.
If teachers have issues with it, then they can talk to the admins. But, as a parent with a kid who is doing just fine, I don't need to start picketting the school and writing all kinds of nasty-grams on DCUM about the sky falling down.
And really... the whole "you must be from Gatehouse" or "you HAVE TO BE an administrator" is getting trite. Expand your mind to consider that some people actually DON'T have the same opinions that you have. Maybe that's not how it has been done in your very narrow little social circles... but, surprise, surprise.... some people don't agree with you. Doesn't make their opinions less genuine just because you can't fathom the possibility of dissent.
Anonymous
05/31/2023 18:20
Subject: Madison H.S. Parents - Principal Survey and Skills-Based Grading
Anonymous wrote:You cannot seriously think that FCPS wants or expects every student to have the SAME GRADES across the classroom, grade-level, school, and district. Yes, they are trying to bring lower performing students into greater learning. But, it's just silliness to suggest that they want all kids to get the same grades and therefore FCPS (according to the chicken littles on this thread) is trying to bring DOWN the high performing kids, and falsely bring UP the low performing kids.
https://interactioninstitute.org/illustrating-equality-vs-equity/
This graphic that gets thrown around all the time literally shows that equity means you take something away from one student to give to another.
Anonymous
05/31/2023 17:52
Subject: Re:Madison H.S. Parents - Principal Survey and Skills-Based Grading
They also have pacing guides which direct which standards to teach in sequence. There is no need for an additional layer.
Anonymous
05/31/2023 17:50
Subject: Re:Madison H.S. Parents - Principal Survey and Skills-Based Grading
What's so silly about the whole thing is that standards are actually already built into all of the teaching in FCPS. They are called standards of learning. There are state and local standards.
Anonymous
05/31/2023 17:46
Subject: Re:Madison H.S. Parents - Principal Survey and Skills-Based Grading
Lucy Calkins was the wave of the future too. Now we are making up for the failings of that wave. So many more.
Anonymous
05/31/2023 17:38
Subject: Madison H.S. Parents - Principal Survey and Skills-Based Grading
You know darn well that the purpose of this SBG is to give kids more agency over their learning process and it is based on the latest research on learning. (I'm basing this on the video, not my own personal knowledge of learning research.)
I hate to break it to you, but educational research is not known for it's quality. And then the video actually doesn't cite real educational research. It refers to Ted Dintersmith, a venture capitalist that decided to become an education guru. He went and visited some cool schools doing neat things and wrote a book about what learning could be. This is not research. He just observed, probably with the principal at his side. Then it talk about deeper learning which doesn't have anything to do with SBG. Deeper learning did not happen for my kids this year. SBG is a grading system. If you know of any studies that show SBG works, please post it. Educational research should not be anecdotes, observations, or ideas.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2014/08/21/a-shocking-statistic-about-the-quality-of-education-research/
The principle of replication is the cornerstone of scientific inquiry.
From the article, "Their study says that despite the fact that replication of education research findings is vital to policymakers and educators, only 0.13 percent of education articles were replicated." There’s more: While nearly 68 percent of the replicated studies were successful in reaching the same conclusions as the original studies, it was also true that replications “were significantly less likely to be successful when there was no overlap in authorship between the original and replicating articles,” according to an abstract of the report. When an entirely new team of researchers did a replication, they were successful in duplicating the results of the original 54 percent of the time. “The results,” the abstract said, “emphasize the importance of third-party, direct replications in helping education research improve its ability to shape education policy and practice.”
For more than a decade, school reformers have said that education policy should be driven by “research” and “data,” but there’s a big question about how much faith anyone should have in a great deal of education research. This is so not only because the samples are too small or because some research projects are funded by specific companies looking for specific results, but because in nearly all cases, it appears that nobody can be certain their results are completely accurate.
You cannot seriously think that FCPS wants or expects every student to have the SAME GRADES across the classroom, grade-level, school, and district. Yes, they are trying to bring lower performing students into greater learning. But, it's just silliness to suggest that they want all kids to get the same grades and therefore FCPS (according to the chicken littles on this thread) is trying to bring DOWN the high performing kids, and falsely bring UP the low performing kids.
I don't care what the motives are at this point, although I assume it's self-serving or misguided. We have been discussing what we are seeing with our kids' grades
There is a philosophy in education research that DE-emphasizing grades is good for the student (even if it is not good for the student's parent!). And along with that is the idea of emphasizing learning and taking ownership of learning.
There you go again talking about "research" It's not research. More likely, someone or more than one, wrote a book and now trains teachers/holds workshops/sells something to FCPS
I don't know if what I've described (based on the video of SBG) is the wave of the future and what schools should all be doing. Or if this philosophy will be scrapped in 10 yrs.
But, I know that what they are trying to do is based in research. It's not a conspiracy to screw over the smart kids just to help the poor kids. And when you go down that line of argument, you just make yourselves look like crazy people.
Well, the SBG wave of the future happened more than 10 years ago. We are copying something that has shown to fail thousands of students. SBG is failing kids all over the country such as in Baltimore which adopted equity grading policies. I guess Madison should have implemented this back when they started thinking about in 2015 if they wanted to be a school of the future. According to Einstein, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. What I'm seeing at Madison is crazy.
Anonymous
05/31/2023 17:28
Subject: Madison H.S. Parents - Principal Survey and Skills-Based Grading
Anonymous wrote:It's funny how some of y'all go down these (il)logical rabbit holes.
You know darn well that the purpose of this SBG is to give kids more agency over their learning process and it is based on the latest research on learning. (I'm basing this on the video, not my own personal knowledge of learning research.)
You cannot seriously think that FCPS wants or expects every student to have the SAME GRADES across the classroom, grade-level, school, and district. Yes, they are trying to bring lower performing students into greater learning. But, it's just silliness to suggest that they want all kids to get the same grades and therefore FCPS (according to the chicken littles on this thread) is trying to bring DOWN the high performing kids, and falsely bring UP the low performing kids.
There is a philosophy in education research that DE-emphasizing grades is good for the student (even if it is not good for the student's parent!). And along with that is the idea of emphasizing learning and taking ownership of learning.
I don't know if what I've described (based on the video of SBG) is the wave of the future and what schools should all be doing. Or if this philosophy will be scrapped in 10 yrs.
But, I know that what they are trying to do is based in research. It's not a conspiracy to screw over the smart kids just to help the poor kids. And when you go down that line of argument, you just make yourselves look like crazy people.
There are indeed plenty of examples of skills-based grading being adopted. Here you go:
https://cvhsolympian.com/news/2022/05/16/more-bs-and-cs-fewer-as-and-fs/
https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ1264467.pdf
Both links highlight that a key feature of skills-based grading is to push more students to the center--B and C. How you feel about that probably depends on the type of student your child is and how much you think students at Madison will be compared to those in other FCPS schools without this policy. I don't think it is a conspiracy, but i do think the school has not acknowledged the impact this policy has had on all students, not just on the struggling kids.
Anonymous
05/31/2023 17:01
Subject: Madison H.S. Parents - Principal Survey and Skills-Based Grading
Anonymous wrote:It's funny how some of y'all go down these (il)logical rabbit holes.
You know darn well that the purpose of this SBG is to give kids more agency over their learning process and it is based on the latest research on learning. (I'm basing this on the video, not my own personal knowledge of learning research.)
You cannot seriously think that FCPS wants or expects every student to have the SAME GRADES across the classroom, grade-level, school, and district. Yes, they are trying to bring lower performing students into greater learning. But, it's just silliness to suggest that they want all kids to get the same grades and therefore FCPS (according to the chicken littles on this thread) is trying to bring DOWN the high performing kids, and falsely bring UP the low performing kids.
There is a philosophy in education research that DE-emphasizing grades is good for the student (even if it is not good for the student's parent!). And along with that is the idea of emphasizing learning and taking ownership of learning.
I don't know if what I've described (based on the video of SBG) is the wave of the future and what schools should all be doing. Or if this philosophy will be scrapped in 10 yrs.
But, I know that what they are trying to do is based in research. It's not a conspiracy to screw over the smart kids just to help the poor kids. And when you go down that line of argument, you just make yourselves look like crazy people.
Go back to Gatehouse.
Anonymous
05/31/2023 16:17
Subject: Madison H.S. Parents - Principal Survey and Skills-Based Grading
It's funny how some of y'all go down these (il)logical rabbit holes.
You know darn well that the purpose of this SBG is to give kids more agency over their learning process and it is based on the latest research on learning. (I'm basing this on the video, not my own personal knowledge of learning research.)
You cannot seriously think that FCPS wants or expects every student to have the SAME GRADES across the classroom, grade-level, school, and district. Yes, they are trying to bring lower performing students into greater learning. But, it's just silliness to suggest that they want all kids to get the same grades and therefore FCPS (according to the chicken littles on this thread) is trying to bring DOWN the high performing kids, and falsely bring UP the low performing kids.
There is a philosophy in education research that DE-emphasizing grades is good for the student (even if it is not good for the student's parent!). And along with that is the idea of emphasizing learning and taking ownership of learning.
I don't know if what I've described (based on the video of SBG) is the wave of the future and what schools should all be doing. Or if this philosophy will be scrapped in 10 yrs.
But, I know that what they are trying to do is based in research. It's not a conspiracy to screw over the smart kids just to help the poor kids. And when you go down that line of argument, you just make yourselves look like crazy people.
You know darn well that the purpose of this SBG is to give kids more agency over their learning process and it is based on the latest research on learning. (I'm basing this on the video, not my own personal knowledge of learning research.)
You cannot seriously think that FCPS wants or expects every student to have the SAME GRADES across the classroom, grade-level, school, and district. Yes, they are trying to bring lower performing students into greater learning. But, it's just silliness to suggest that they want all kids to get the same grades and therefore FCPS (according to the chicken littles on this thread) is trying to bring DOWN the high performing kids, and falsely bring UP the low performing kids.
There is a philosophy in education research that DE-emphasizing grades is good for the student (even if it is not good for the student's parent!). And along with that is the idea of emphasizing learning and taking ownership of learning.
I don't know if what I've described (based on the video of SBG) is the wave of the future and what schools should all be doing. Or if this philosophy will be scrapped in 10 yrs.
But, I know that what they are trying to do is based in research. It's not a conspiracy to screw over the smart kids just to help the poor kids. And when you go down that line of argument, you just make yourselves look like crazy people.
Anonymous
05/31/2023 15:23
Subject: Madison H.S. Parents - Principal Survey and Skills-Based Grading
Anonymous wrote:The priority is closing the achievement gap.I think this is what SB hired Reid to do. “Equal outcomes for all students”
And the only way to achieve "Equal outcomes for all students" is to meet at the lowest common denominator, so no one excels.
Anonymous
05/31/2023 10:58
Subject: Madison H.S. Parents - Principal Survey and Skills-Based Grading
The priority is closing the achievement gap.I think this is what SB hired Reid to do. “Equal outcomes for all students”