Anonymous wrote:Maybe a digression, but I totally agree with the PP who noted how strange the obsession is with youth sports. My kids all did various sports for fun when they were young but now that they are in high school, their interest is dwindling which I think is completely natural since there are now other things that interest them. Very few people go on to play their sport at the college level, and even fewer as a post college career. But so many of my kids friends parents seem to be thinking the sports recruitment process is their kids path to college acceptance, which I think is such a risky bet. So much is beyond the kid’s control (sure, ability and training matter, but whether or not they are given an offer also depends on what skills the coach needs to fill in their team, what skills other players from accords the US are, if they can finish high school without an injury etc). I’d much rather my kids focus on what is in their control - learning the academic info they are taught.

I love to exercise and have done so my whole life but was never on a youth sports team sports team. Lifelong fitness and participating in organized sports are not the same thing.

That was me. Maybe I struck a nerve rolling my eyes at all the people I live near who either have UVA or VT flags in their front yards and still get excited 25 years later about their college teams. I find that kind of weird, but I guess I find watching all professional sports sort of weird. I know there's a reason people get so into it. They identify with the team. But it also feels like it's those same people who push their kids into youth sports.

The thing about all of that pushing is that you end up with little clones. If you really are encouraging your kids to do all of those things because you believe it will make them better people, then I'm going to assume you are modeling that behavior yourself. And if so--great. It is good to volunteer. If you're a parent who volunteers and you introduce that to your kid and say this is just what we do as part of being good citizens and people--great.

But it feels more to me like UMC kids are just ticking boxes.
1. Did Johnny take enough APs?
2. Did Johnny play the correct number of sports?
3. Was Johnny the president of a school club? Or better yet--did Johnny start his own "foundation" or non-profit to show leadership?

All of these kids do the same things, and it's so obvious that so many of them were coached. That doesn't mean those things won't help them get into college or that some of those things might be good for them. But it depends on the kid. If my kid would rather spend time working on art that no one sees but herself (and yeah...it drives me a little crazy) who am I to say that's not a valid interest for her to spend free time on? Because it can't be calculated? My kid doesn't volunteer. You know? I don't either. I should. But I don't. So I would be pretty hypocritical to make her do something I don't do. Her school actually requires some volunteering. But you know where she'll probably spend it? In the library shelving books. And she'll get in to a good school if she keeps her grades up. No. Not Harvard. But there are plenty of good schools she will get into just being herself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not let kids just chillax and be themselves?

What does that even mean?

Raising kids doesn't just mean feeding them and watching them grow. They aren't plants or pets. They will be adults one day and to have the best chance of being heathy and fulfilled adults you have to help them develop talents, pursue interests (watching youtube and tiktok do not count as interests), a physical activity they can pursue into adulthood, work ethic. These are all important to in order to have a successful career that makes enough money to get ahead, finding a quality spouse, staying in shape and heathy as an adult, being an interesting person that others want to talk to.

Do you really though? Left to their own devices, they’ll find interests of their own. But it may not be interests you value or on your preferred timeline. Therein lies the issue. You’re still seeing their lives and choices as a reflection of you.

I have a kid who has a little neighborhood side hustle with a friend. They mow lawns, rake, weed, trim hedges, etc. They make a couple hundred a week but he doesn’t even spend the money on anything as we buy his clothes, pay for his tennis lessons, lift tickets, gadgets, etc. He just wants to see the money adding up in his bank account.

Anyway, he’d rather do this than join any of the ~ 60 or so school clubs at his high school. Like newspaper or debate team or something that might look “good” on a college application. Right now he only does tennis in the spring and water polo in the winter. But no academic clubs because he wants to focus on his “business” lol. Are we supposed to say no? At least he’s doing something. It is what it is.

It seems a shame that he’s not exploring other interests because he’s already yoked to a job…he has his whole life to live like that.

The PP says he CHOOSES to work and that he doesn’t need the money. He’s showing admirable work ethic and ambition. Plus she says he does do activities - tennis, skiing, and water polo. Sounds like a good kid.

“Admirable work ethic”…you’re weird, you don’t even know the kid. Lawn care businesses don’t even operate during much of the school year.

And I stand by what I said before, it

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted this as a comment on another thread, but I think it's odd how many posters here are averse to pushing their kid and having them develop an amazing work ethic (the #1 key to success!) all because they're worried that they'll harm their fragile snowflake's "mental health."


I demand that my kid (who is of fairly average intelligence -- 110 IQ) take the most rigorous classes offered at their school (a "W" school), try their best to get straight As (so far successful except for 1 B sophomore year), participate in a sport, play an instrument, work a (crappy, minimum wage) summer job, and be active in community service. DC doesn't want to do any of this (they are naturally very lazy), but I push them academically and extracurricularly because it forms a well-rounded human being. Not for the sake of college admissions, not for the sake of impressing an AO, but for the sake of developing a work ethic that'll launch them into success in college and beyond. Too many Americans these days lack a strong work ethic.

And for some reason, the parents on here think that all of this will destroy my kid's mental health. The best thing you can do for your kid's mental health is to build grit and resilience, as well as normalize failure. That's why I demand that my kid try their best at activities that are naturally outside of their comfort zone. It seems as though this is a common approach to successful and well-rounded kids; the ones who are the healthiest and happiest in DC's friend group are the ones who are pushed by their parents to do things outside of their comfort zone while normalizing failure and not being the best at everything you do. And the ones in DC's friend group with the most mental health issues are the ones with coddling parents who try to shelter their kid from every potential failure while not pushing them to step outside of their comfort zone.

Ugh this is sickening. My DC does all of these things but we don't "demand". My DC wants to go to college and works hard for it but we don't force and make said child feel like they us be on top at all times. Your post sucks and I'm sure you do too!

Okay. Don't be mad when my kid gets into the Top 20s or gets that FAANG/BB IB/MBB gig and yours doesn't.

The thing is that your kid doesn't NEED to get into a Top 20 school to have a good life.
1. Having a parent that just cares enough to actually care about college is a huge step up from most people with parents who either don't or can't afford to care.
2. I know specifically that you don't need to have gone to a Top 20 school to work for a FAANG company because my husband has worked at three. And the vast majority of people he worked with didn't have degrees from a Top 20 school. I can't speak to other professions. I'm sure none of it hurts for your first job, but as you get older where you went to college matters less and less. I also know quite a few people who went to meh undergraduate programs and got graduate degrees at prestigious schools.

Maybe a digression, but I totally agree with the PP who noted how strange the obsession is with youth sports. My kids all did various sports for fun when they were young but now that they are in high school, their interest is dwindling which I think is completely natural since there are now other things that interest them. Very few people go on to play their sport at the college level, and even fewer as a post college career. But so many of my kids friends parents seem to be thinking the sports recruitment process is their kids path to college acceptance, which I think is such a risky bet. So much is beyond the kid’s control (sure, ability and training matter, but whether or not they are given an offer also depends on what skills the coach needs to fill in their team, what skills other players from accords the US are, if they can finish high school without an injury etc). I’d much rather my kids focus on what is in their control - learning the academic info they are taught.

I love to exercise and have done so my whole life but was never on a youth sports team sports team. Lifelong fitness and participating in organized sports are not the same thing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not let kids just chillax and be themselves?

What does that even mean?

Raising kids doesn't just mean feeding them and watching them grow. They aren't plants or pets. They will be adults one day and to have the best chance of being heathy and fulfilled adults you have to help them develop talents, pursue interests (watching youtube and tiktok do not count as interests), a physical activity they can pursue into adulthood, work ethic. These are all important to in order to have a successful career that makes enough money to get ahead, finding a quality spouse, staying in shape and heathy as an adult, being an interesting person that others want to talk to.

Do you really though? Left to their own devices, they’ll find interests of their own. But it may not be interests you value or on your preferred timeline. Therein lies the issue. You’re still seeing their lives and choices as a reflection of you.

I have a kid who has a little neighborhood side hustle with a friend. They mow lawns, rake, weed, trim hedges, etc. They make a couple hundred a week but he doesn’t even spend the money on anything as we buy his clothes, pay for his tennis lessons, lift tickets, gadgets, etc. He just wants to see the money adding up in his bank account.

Anyway, he’d rather do this than join any of the ~ 60 or so school clubs at his high school. Like newspaper or debate team or something that might look “good” on a college application. Right now he only does tennis in the spring and water polo in the winter. But no academic clubs because he wants to focus on his “business” lol. Are we supposed to say no? At least he’s doing something. It is what it is.

It seems a shame that he’s not exploring other interests because he’s already yoked to a job…he has his whole life to live like that.

The PP says he CHOOSES to work and that he doesn’t need the money. He’s showing admirable work ethic and ambition. Plus she says he does do activities - tennis, skiing, and water polo. Sounds like a good kid.

Where does it say that? How old is this kid?

I’m trying to raise kids who are internally self motivated. My DH had pushy parents. I did not. He did much better grade-wise than me through college and had the “better” job. But now that the pressure is off he really is at a loss. Meanwhile, I’ve been slow and steady but am constantly finding new things to love to do. I just turned 50 and am excited for the years ahead. Meanwhile, he’s “bored” most of the time which I think comes from a lack of internal motivation. Life is long OP! It’s not just about high school.

That said, I certainly have standards for my kids but I emphasize their effort not prescribe an output.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted this as a comment on another thread, but I think it's odd how many posters here are averse to pushing their kid and having them develop an amazing work ethic (the #1 key to success!) all because they're worried that they'll harm their fragile snowflake's "mental health."


I demand that my kid (who is of fairly average intelligence -- 110 IQ) take the most rigorous classes offered at their school (a "W" school), try their best to get straight As (so far successful except for 1 B sophomore year), participate in a sport, play an instrument, work a (crappy, minimum wage) summer job, and be active in community service. DC doesn't want to do any of this (they are naturally very lazy), but I push them academically and extracurricularly because it forms a well-rounded human being. Not for the sake of college admissions, not for the sake of impressing an AO, but for the sake of developing a work ethic that'll launch them into success in college and beyond. Too many Americans these days lack a strong work ethic.

And for some reason, the parents on here think that all of this will destroy my kid's mental health. The best thing you can do for your kid's mental health is to build grit and resilience, as well as normalize failure. That's why I demand that my kid try their best at activities that are naturally outside of their comfort zone. It seems as though this is a common approach to successful and well-rounded kids; the ones who are the healthiest and happiest in DC's friend group are the ones who are pushed by their parents to do things outside of their comfort zone while normalizing failure and not being the best at everything you do. And the ones in DC's friend group with the most mental health issues are the ones with coddling parents who try to shelter their kid from every potential failure while not pushing them to step outside of their comfort zone.

Ugh this is sickening. My DC does all of these things but we don't "demand". My DC wants to go to college and works hard for it but we don't force and make said child feel like they us be on top at all times. Your post sucks and I'm sure you do too!

Okay. Don't be mad when my kid gets into the Top 20s or gets that FAANG/BB IB/MBB gig and yours doesn't.

Anonymous wrote:There are two extremes. One is not pushing your kid to do anything, let alone achieve anything. The other is pushing to much, too hard. Neither extreme is optimal. Get to know your child and parent accordingly.

Tell that to the tiger moms of DCUM...

There are two extremes. One is not pushing your kid to do anything, let alone achieve anything. The other is pushing to much, too hard. Neither extreme is optimal. Get to know your child and parent accordingly.

Anonymous wrote:I posted this as a comment on another thread, but I think it's odd how many posters here are averse to pushing their kid and having them develop an amazing work ethic (the #1 key to success!) all because they're worried that they'll harm their fragile snowflake's "mental health."


I demand that my kid (who is of fairly average intelligence -- 110 IQ) take the most rigorous classes offered at their school (a "W" school), try their best to get straight As (so far successful except for 1 B sophomore year), participate in a sport, play an instrument, work a (crappy, minimum wage) summer job, and be active in community service. DC doesn't want to do any of this (they are naturally very lazy), but I push them academically and extracurricularly because it forms a well-rounded human being. Not for the sake of college admissions, not for the sake of impressing an AO, but for the sake of developing a work ethic that'll launch them into success in college and beyond. Too many Americans these days lack a strong work ethic.

And for some reason, the parents on here think that all of this will destroy my kid's mental health. The best thing you can do for your kid's mental health is to build grit and resilience, as well as normalize failure. That's why I demand that my kid try their best at activities that are naturally outside of their comfort zone. It seems as though this is a common approach to successful and well-rounded kids; the ones who are the healthiest and happiest in DC's friend group are the ones who are pushed by their parents to do things outside of their comfort zone while normalizing failure and not being the best at everything you do. And the ones in DC's friend group with the most mental health issues are the ones with coddling parents who try to shelter their kid from every potential failure while not pushing them to step outside of their comfort zone.

Ugh this is sickening. My DC does all of these things but we don't "demand". My DC wants to go to college and works hard for it but we don't force and make said child feel like they us be on top at all times. Your post sucks and I'm sure you do too!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know. I have a weird, anxious, super introverted kid I love. They’re awesome. They don’t play sports. Never have. Husband and I don’t either. We walk for exercise. I don’t get this obsession everyone has with team sports. It’s strange. Adults around me still flying their Virginia Tech signs like it matters? You’re 45.

My kid takes pretty much all AP and honors courses, but that’s because she does well at them. That’s the only place where my “pushing” really works…to make her keep the grades up. Otherwise, most of my pushing is focused on my kid making more friends, which is really hard got them—and the pushing doesn’t even work. I’m always telling myself I’m going to stop, and then I find myself doing it again.

I have a pretty weird relationship with my parents, who I know loved me, but have always made me feel like I’m disappointing. They expected great things out of me, and I’m just an average person, and they never really let me forget it. I would rather not have that kind of relationship with my own child.

As my child gets closer to college, I’m also starting to wonder what all the insanity is for. Someone told me their kid was applying to Vanderbilt and it’s really hard to get into Vanderbilt, and I was like…is it? I mean, who cares? Is it really going to matter that much in the long run? That’s how I’m starting to see a lot of things. I have a friend who has such a great relationship with his family. And they are just supportive and non judgmental, and man….I hope my could end up having that kind of relationship with me. I think some people are naturally going to be gregarious and put themselves out there, and some people aren’t like that. And that’s my god created computer science.

I agree with most of what you’re saying, but part of the reason your kids are having difficulty making friends is because they aren’t involved in sports and sounds like not other activities. You’re missing the whole aspect of community (e.g. flying tech signs)…and as long as you’re totally dismissive of that your kids will have a hard time with friendships, and will also struggle as adults.

Nah....I wasn't into sports nor was my husband. We had geeky and artsy friends. We played a lot of trivial pursuit, poker, smoked a lot of clove cigarettes, talked politics. My kid has those kinds of friends too (minus the cigarettes), but I think the difference is the internet. They never NEED to leave their rooms.

The crazy poster who said I was an ungrateful brat because I never achieved amazing things? I mean, I got multiple advanced degrees but they weren't in a high paying field. I wrote a few novels, but they never got published. I think my parents wanted me to become famous or accomplished in any field I chose, and that is just very rare. I probably should not have stayed home raising a child for as long as I did, but hindsight is 20/20. Really, all you should hope for is that your kid is healthy, able to take care of themselves and reasonably happy. They should not need to be rich or famous for you to proud of them and love them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not let kids just chillax and be themselves?

What does that even mean?

Raising kids doesn't just mean feeding them and watching them grow. They aren't plants or pets. They will be adults one day and to have the best chance of being heathy and fulfilled adults you have to help them develop talents, pursue interests (watching youtube and tiktok do not count as interests), a physical activity they can pursue into adulthood, work ethic. These are all important to in order to have a successful career that makes enough money to get ahead, finding a quality spouse, staying in shape and heathy as an adult, being an interesting person that others want to talk to.

Do you really though? Left to their own devices, they’ll find interests of their own. But it may not be interests you value or on your preferred timeline. Therein lies the issue. You’re still seeing their lives and choices as a reflection of you.

I have a kid who has a little neighborhood side hustle with a friend. They mow lawns, rake, weed, trim hedges, etc. They make a couple hundred a week but he doesn’t even spend the money on anything as we buy his clothes, pay for his tennis lessons, lift tickets, gadgets, etc. He just wants to see the money adding up in his bank account.

Anyway, he’d rather do this than join any of the ~ 60 or so school clubs at his high school. Like newspaper or debate team or something that might look “good” on a college application. Right now he only does tennis in the spring and water polo in the winter. But no academic clubs because he wants to focus on his “business” lol. Are we supposed to say no? At least he’s doing something. It is what it is.

It seems a shame that he’s not exploring other interests because he’s already yoked to a job…he has his whole life to live like that.

The PP says he CHOOSES to work and that he doesn’t need the money. He’s showing admirable work ethic and ambition. Plus she says he does do activities - tennis, skiing, and water polo. Sounds like a good kid.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not let kids just chillax and be themselves?

What does that even mean?

Raising kids doesn't just mean feeding them and watching them grow. They aren't plants or pets. They will be adults one day and to have the best chance of being heathy and fulfilled adults you have to help them develop talents, pursue interests (watching youtube and tiktok do not count as interests), a physical activity they can pursue into adulthood, work ethic. These are all important to in order to have a successful career that makes enough money to get ahead, finding a quality spouse, staying in shape and heathy as an adult, being an interesting person that others want to talk to.

Do you really though? Left to their own devices, they’ll find interests of their own. But it may not be interests you value or on your preferred timeline. Therein lies the issue. You’re still seeing their lives and choices as a reflection of you.

I have a kid who has a little neighborhood side hustle with a friend. They mow lawns, rake, weed, trim hedges, etc. They make a couple hundred a week but he doesn’t even spend the money on anything as we buy his clothes, pay for his tennis lessons, lift tickets, gadgets, etc. He just wants to see the money adding up in his bank account.

Anyway, he’d rather do this than join any of the ~ 60 or so school clubs at his high school. Like newspaper or debate team or something that might look “good” on a college application. Right now he only does tennis in the spring and water polo in the winter. But no academic clubs because he wants to focus on his “business” lol. Are we supposed to say no? At least he’s doing something. It is what it is.

It seems a shame that he’s not exploring other interests because he’s already yoked to a job…he has his whole life to live like that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know. I have a weird, anxious, super introverted kid I love. They’re awesome. They don’t play sports. Never have. Husband and I don’t either. We walk for exercise. I don’t get this obsession everyone has with team sports. It’s strange. Adults around me still flying their Virginia Tech signs like it matters? You’re 45.

My kid takes pretty much all AP and honors courses, but that’s because she does well at them. That’s the only place where my “pushing” really works…to make her keep the grades up. Otherwise, most of my pushing is focused on my kid making more friends, which is really hard got them—and the pushing doesn’t even work. I’m always telling myself I’m going to stop, and then I find myself doing it again.

I have a pretty weird relationship with my parents, who I know loved me, but have always made me feel like I’m disappointing. They expected great things out of me, and I’m just an average person, and they never really let me forget it. I would rather not have that kind of relationship with my own child.

As my child gets closer to college, I’m also starting to wonder what all the insanity is for. Someone told me their kid was applying to Vanderbilt and it’s really hard to get into Vanderbilt, and I was like…is it? I mean, who cares? Is it really going to matter that much in the long run? That’s how I’m starting to see a lot of things. I have a friend who has such a great relationship with his family. And they are just supportive and non judgmental, and man….I hope my could end up having that kind of relationship with me. I think some people are naturally going to be gregarious and put themselves out there, and some people aren’t like that. And that’s my god created computer science.

I agree with most of what you’re saying, but part of the reason your kids are having difficulty making friends is because they aren’t involved in sports and sounds like not other activities. You’re missing the whole aspect of community (e.g. flying tech signs)…and as long as you’re totally dismissive of that your kids will have a hard time with friendships, and will also struggle as adults.

Agreed. PP thinks having interests and caring about things is pointless…well, that’s why your kid has no friends—how would PP’s kid meet people and what would they even discuss?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know. I have a weird, anxious, super introverted kid I love. They’re awesome. They don’t play sports. Never have. Husband and I don’t either. We walk for exercise. I don’t get this obsession everyone has with team sports. It’s strange. Adults around me still flying their Virginia Tech signs like it matters? You’re 45.

My kid takes pretty much all AP and honors courses, but that’s because she does well at them. That’s the only place where my “pushing” really works…to make her keep the grades up. Otherwise, most of my pushing is focused on my kid making more friends, which is really hard got them—and the pushing doesn’t even work. I’m always telling myself I’m going to stop, and then I find myself doing it again.

I have a pretty weird relationship with my parents, who I know loved me, but have always made me feel like I’m disappointing. They expected great things out of me, and I’m just an average person, and they never really let me forget it. I would rather not have that kind of relationship with my own child.

As my child gets closer to college, I’m also starting to wonder what all the insanity is for. Someone told me their kid was applying to Vanderbilt and it’s really hard to get into Vanderbilt, and I was like…is it? I mean, who cares? Is it really going to matter that much in the long run? That’s how I’m starting to see a lot of things. I have a friend who has such a great relationship with his family. And they are just supportive and non judgmental, and man….I hope my could end up having that kind of relationship with me. I think some people are naturally going to be gregarious and put themselves out there, and some people aren’t like that. And that’s my god created computer science.

OP here. You sound like an ungrateful brat. Having parents with high expectations is a BLESSING, not a curse. Having parents who believe in you and who push you to accomplish extraordinary things is what leads to discipline, high achievement, and greatness. I would also be disappointed if my kid ends up being average or mediocre because (like your parents, PP) I expect my kid to accomplish great things. That's because I know they're capable of achieving amazing things if they put their mind to it.

Sounds good. Just one more thing...

Just make sure you also save enough for therapy for your kids, emotional support for their nearly certain divorce and depression and eventual alienation from you.