I can guarantee, if he gives you silent treatment, your kids will have noticed.

My dad used to do this when he got upset. I didn't realize it was abuse at the time, but I always noticed when it was happening and felt the tension.

He'd do it for a few days and then one day just magically start talking.

The most vivid thing I remember about 9/11 is that my dad was giving the silent treatment at the time. My mom was in Boston for work and grounded there. She had a cellphone and my dad did as well, but my siblings and I didn't. His phone rang a few times and it was her number, but he wouldn't answer or let us answer. She finally got through on the landline hours later to speak with me and my siblings. He wouldn't speak with her.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like you bring out the worst in each other. No matter his behavior, you are still accountable for your “anger” as you describe it. I would give the ultimatum of couples counseling or divorce. Book the appointment and have a lawyer ready if he doesn’t show up.

No couples counseling with abusers. She already learned that the hard way.

+1

Anonymous wrote:Was he always like that — when you were dating, and newlyweds?

Turn that new part time job into a full time job as soon as you can and start planning your exit discreetly. Consult a lawyer.

This is not a relevant or legitimate question when there is a NT spouse being manipulated by a non NT spouse. Do your research.

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, OP. If financially possible at some point, I hope that you can eventually divorce. If you do, I would stay very vague and neutral about the reasons and keep it to “we grew apart”. He’d use anything you said against you.

If you have to stay married, stay as separated as possible. Don’t engage with his bullying, go into another room when he’s around, put on headphones and listen to a podcast so you don’t have to talk to him. He is enjoying your pain so try not to show it to him. Answer his questions briefly and with a placid smile, don’t confide in him or discuss anything personal. Keep all conversation short.

+1

YES! They seem to want you to be as miserable as they are, OP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, OP. If financially possible at some point, I hope that you can eventually divorce. If you do, I would stay very vague and neutral about the reasons and keep it to “we grew apart”. He’d use anything you said against you.

If you have to stay married, stay as separated as possible. Don’t engage with his bullying, go into another room when he’s around, put on headphones and listen to a podcast so you don’t have to talk to him. He is enjoying your pain so try not to show it to him. Answer his questions briefly and with a placid smile, don’t confide in him or discuss anything personal. Keep all conversation short.

How can anyone live this way for any prolonged period of time?

Great question but many do. It’s quite damaging, even once you ID it and have a name and books for it.

Leaving and doing the work to refund yourself, trust and love again is the best route but very tough with children and coparenting forever which such an unhealthy Ex.

The issue is that it is possible to coparent, but in some cases, the NT spouse (and DC) would be punished even more, if they left. If a NT spouse decides to stay (notice I did not say choose, as it is a non choice, to those in this situation), it is because it is seen as the lesser of two evils.

Anonymous wrote:Sounds hereditary- his father, him, possibly your difficult youngest daughter or the sons.

Read up on NT/AS relationships or www.theneurotypical.com

Does he have any deep or meaningful relationships? Or just talk shop or TV shows or news articles? Can he discuss anything if feelings are mentioned or involved? Or stonewall or get angry and deflect?

NP here. OP, I empathize because I have posted before, and gotten the "DCUM Treatment" (in short, gaslighting for being gaslit). I was actually reluctant to post, until I saw so many PP's in the same situation. All the intangibles, all the social and emotional issues that come about as a result of being with someone like this, for so long.

This PP's posting really helped, and reignited my interest in the subject. Some periods are worse than others, and (for example) being around DH's family brings out the worst in him, because they constantly treat him as a second (or third or fourth) thought. They do not include him in family events (before DCUM tries to pile it on, as they do - it has nothing to do with me, I get along with his family just fine). So many items on the referenced list (posted above) - naively gullible; terrible driver (her gets screamed at constantly on the road, it is dangerous), oblivious to others' feelings, touch averse, poor impulse control, "lack of understanding that they don't understand", they are always right, interpret everything literally, do not take your existing knowledge into consideration, rigid routines, same foods every day, present as "Mr. Nice Guy", same phone game for hours upon hours upon hours each day, emotional deprivation, fooling marriage counselors into taking their side, and more.

Sadly, the NT spouse gets the brunt of the rage (unable to process emotions properly or without rage). And yes, one or both of his parents are the same. I suspect that DC may have been lucky to have escaped, but DH still tries to triangulate, and creates a volatile situation whenever possible. If I left, the kids would have no college, frankly (I have run the numbers, before DCUM tries to pee on that, too).

It is always a relief to find out you are not alone in this terrible situation, OP. We didn't ask for this. Research will tell you that spouses with these traits are perfectly capable of presenting normally (ie: when dating).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, OP. If financially possible at some point, I hope that you can eventually divorce. If you do, I would stay very vague and neutral about the reasons and keep it to “we grew apart”. He’d use anything you said against you.

If you have to stay married, stay as separated as possible. Don’t engage with his bullying, go into another room when he’s around, put on headphones and listen to a podcast so you don’t have to talk to him. He is enjoying your pain so try not to show it to him. Answer his questions briefly and with a placid smile, don’t confide in him or discuss anything personal. Keep all conversation short.

How can anyone live this way for any prolonged period of time?

There are couples who do this for decades. You essentially lead separate lives.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, OP. If financially possible at some point, I hope that you can eventually divorce. If you do, I would stay very vague and neutral about the reasons and keep it to “we grew apart”. He’d use anything you said against you.

If you have to stay married, stay as separated as possible. Don’t engage with his bullying, go into another room when he’s around, put on headphones and listen to a podcast so you don’t have to talk to him. He is enjoying your pain so try not to show it to him. Answer his questions briefly and with a placid smile, don’t confide in him or discuss anything personal. Keep all conversation short.

How can anyone live this way for any prolonged period of time?

Great question but many do. It’s quite damaging, even once you ID it and have a name and books for it.

Leaving and doing the work to refund yourself, trust and love again is the best route but very tough with children and coparenting forever which such an unhealthy Ex.

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, OP. If financially possible at some point, I hope that you can eventually divorce. If you do, I would stay very vague and neutral about the reasons and keep it to “we grew apart”. He’d use anything you said against you.

If you have to stay married, stay as separated as possible. Don’t engage with his bullying, go into another room when he’s around, put on headphones and listen to a podcast so you don’t have to talk to him. He is enjoying your pain so try not to show it to him. Answer his questions briefly and with a placid smile, don’t confide in him or discuss anything personal. Keep all conversation short.

How can anyone live this way for any prolonged period of time?

Sorry, OP. If financially possible at some point, I hope that you can eventually divorce. If you do, I would stay very vague and neutral about the reasons and keep it to “we grew apart”. He’d use anything you said against you.

If you have to stay married, stay as separated as possible. Don’t engage with his bullying, go into another room when he’s around, put on headphones and listen to a podcast so you don’t have to talk to him. He is enjoying your pain so try not to show it to him. Answer his questions briefly and with a placid smile, don’t confide in him or discuss anything personal. Keep all conversation short.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds hereditary- his father, him, possibly your difficult youngest daughter or the sons.

Read up on NT/AS relationships or www.theneurotypical.com

Does he have any deep or meaningful relationships? Or just talk shop or TV shows or news articles? Can he discuss anything if feelings are mentioned or involved? Or stonewall or get angry and deflect?

Absolutely cannot discuss anything related to feelings unless it is 100% positive. Definitely stonewalls/gets angry/deflects. Those are the only reactions I have ever gotten.

Anyone hear of DARVO? I have read it's used mostly for sexual abuse, but it applies to him completely. Deny/attack/reverse victim-offender. Absolutely true and describes his way of dealing with anything that isn't wonderful. So we could never really develop a relationship that wasn't physical. He literally cannot "relate" to anyone unless it's talking about something he's interested in.

No, I don't think he's on the spectrum, but what do I know. He IS highly intelligent, and enjoys correcting me or "showing up" everyone else or being a know-it-all. Sometimes it's the only time I see him animated about anything.

Yet I started a new job 3 months ago and he isn't even interested enough to ask me about it. it's bizarre. He knows nothing about what I do and doesn't seem to care.

Whatever it is it presents as Narcissism and abusive.

Could also be misogyny, cultural, bipolar, borderline, adhd, asd. Or all of the above.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Covert narcissism" is a term I have heard

Need to yellow rock and gray rock while you plan your exit.

In short, yes this is it. Been down this road. Spectrum doesn't cover it. And get.it.girl on shutting down the details. No need to JADE (justify, argue, defend or explain).

You've got it on the head at narcissism or OCPD. It's not really worth parsing. These are personality disorders with massive, abusive maladaptations. Not changing.

Your goal is boundaries on boundaries and an exit plan. Will you be able to create a safe space? Finances? Legal representation? Let us know where you're at and what you need.

Was he always like that — when you were dating, and newlyweds?

Turn that new part time job into a full time job as soon as you can and start planning your exit discreetly. Consult a lawyer.

Anonymous wrote:Sounds hereditary- his father, him, possibly your difficult youngest daughter or the sons.

Read up on NT/AS relationships or www.theneurotypical.com

Does he have any deep or meaningful relationships? Or just talk shop or TV shows or news articles? Can he discuss anything if feelings are mentioned or involved? Or stonewall or get angry and deflect?

Absolutely cannot discuss anything related to feelings unless it is 100% positive. Definitely stonewalls/gets angry/deflects. Those are the only reactions I have ever gotten.

Anyone hear of DARVO? I have read it's used mostly for sexual abuse, but it applies to him completely. Deny/attack/reverse victim-offender. Absolutely true and describes his way of dealing with anything that isn't wonderful. So we could never really develop a relationship that wasn't physical. He literally cannot "relate" to anyone unless it's talking about something he's interested in.

No, I don't think he's on the spectrum, but what do I know. He IS highly intelligent, and enjoys correcting me or "showing up" everyone else or being a know-it-all. Sometimes it's the only time I see him animated about anything.

Yet I started a new job 3 months ago and he isn't even interested enough to ask me about it. it's bizarre. He knows nothing about what I do and doesn't seem to care.

Is this how he’s always been? It sounds a lot like he might be having an affair — he needs to making you into “the bad guy”and wrong at every turn so he can blame you and justify his behavior to himself.