Anonymous
Post 09/05/2021 18:36     Subject: How often does a typical kid end up in the office? What for?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My kids- never. Well behaved and respectful. (we have gotten it home about too much talking). A kid in one of their classes often goes. It’s usually the kids with poor impulse control. They refuse to follow the rules, disrespectful to the teacher, spit, kick kids, use profanity, etc.



Teacher here. This is correct. My own son, who was later diagnosed with ADHD, was sent to the office fairly frequently in kindergarten due to poor impulse control. The principal knew him well by November. Once he was diagnosed in 3rd grade and started taking medication, he never went to the principal's office. In fact, his teachers couldn't believe he ever had behavior issues.

Some of my former kindergarteners who spend time in the office are later diagnosed with ADHD. The rest just grow up and grow out of the impulsivity.


Do you recommend the pills or the growing out of it?


there is no growing out of adhd.



In kindergarten, a lot of kids lack impulse control. By 2nd or 3rd grade, the ones who still cannot control their bodies most of the time need to be evaluated. My brother and son had ADHD. They both finally grew up around age 23 or so. It was a very long road but worse for my brother. They didn't really diagnose it back then.
Anonymous
Post 09/05/2021 17:42     Subject: How often does a typical kid end up in the office? What for?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:One of mine - never.

The other one - all the time.


LOL same. My oldest, never, middle child constantly. Birth order is real.


The oldest BELIEVES in the rules and will follow them to his own determent.

The younger takes everything as a suggestion and is willing to see through the consequences of his own choices.


They are still young (ES) but honestly, I worry way more about my older one than the younger one. The younger one is more "trouble" and requires more hands on and explanation and active parenting but he'll be ready to make his own educated choices and make them well far younger than his older sibling. The older one has a harder time self advocating or understanding that just because something is "required" doesn't make it right or right for him.


He’ll probably get there, but you can help him. I had a life changing moment from a single comment my mother made to me when I was in 7th grade. I was in a special program and we were going on a trip here to DC (I’m from the Midwest, so it was several days long). All 7th and 8th graders were together on one coach bus, and then the 6th graders were on another bus — except for 5 of us, all 7th grade girls, who had to ride on the 6th grade bus. I was sad that we couldn’t ride with our own grade and I complained to my mom that it especially bothered me that they chose the nicest, quietest, most well behaved 7th graders to suffer the indignity of riding with younger kids and they should have done it with the troublemakers, who need a lower student-to-teacher ratio. My mother replied, “That’s WHY they chose you. They knew you wouldn’t complain and cause problems.” I’ve never forgotten that. Because of that comment, whenever I’m getting screwed, I make a conscious choice not to make it easy for whoever’s doing it.


I'm glad you had that moment. I have a rule-following, always generous and giving DD and I'm afraid that she's going to be a doormat and people are going to walk all over her her whole life. Adults praise her all the time for being so self-less and giving to others, and she lives for that praise, so she doesn't get it when I tell her she doesn't always have to be the self-less one.

Anonymous
Post 09/05/2021 17:35     Subject: How often does a typical kid end up in the office? What for?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My kids- never. Well behaved and respectful. (we have gotten it home about too much talking). A kid in one of their classes often goes. It’s usually the kids with poor impulse control. They refuse to follow the rules, disrespectful to the teacher, spit, kick kids, use profanity, etc.



Teacher here. This is correct. My own son, who was later diagnosed with ADHD, was sent to the office fairly frequently in kindergarten due to poor impulse control. The principal knew him well by November. Once he was diagnosed in 3rd grade and started taking medication, he never went to the principal's office. In fact, his teachers couldn't believe he ever had behavior issues.

Some of my former kindergarteners who spend time in the office are later diagnosed with ADHD. The rest just grow up and grow out of the impulsivity.


Do you recommend the pills or the growing out of it?


there is no growing out of adhd.
Anonymous
Post 09/05/2021 10:14     Subject: How often does a typical kid end up in the office? What for?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:One of mine - never.

The other one - all the time.


LOL same. My oldest, never, middle child constantly. Birth order is real.


The oldest BELIEVES in the rules and will follow them to his own determent.

The younger takes everything as a suggestion and is willing to see through the consequences of his own choices.


They are still young (ES) but honestly, I worry way more about my older one than the younger one. The younger one is more "trouble" and requires more hands on and explanation and active parenting but he'll be ready to make his own educated choices and make them well far younger than his older sibling. The older one has a harder time self advocating or understanding that just because something is "required" doesn't make it right or right for him.


He’ll probably get there, but you can help him. I had a life changing moment from a single comment my mother made to me when I was in 7th grade. I was in a special program and we were going on a trip here to DC (I’m from the Midwest, so it was several days long). All 7th and 8th graders were together on one coach bus, and then the 6th graders were on another bus — except for 5 of us, all 7th grade girls, who had to ride on the 6th grade bus. I was sad that we couldn’t ride with our own grade and I complained to my mom that it especially bothered me that they chose the nicest, quietest, most well behaved 7th graders to suffer the indignity of riding with younger kids and they should have done it with the troublemakers, who need a lower student-to-teacher ratio. My mother replied, “That’s WHY they chose you. They knew you wouldn’t complain and cause problems.” I’ve never forgotten that. Because of that comment, whenever I’m getting screwed, I make a conscious choice not to make it easy for whoever’s doing it.
Anonymous
Post 09/05/2021 09:58     Subject: How often does a typical kid end up in the office? What for?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:One of mine - never.

The other one - all the time.


LOL same. My oldest, never, middle child constantly. Birth order is real.


The oldest BELIEVES in the rules and will follow them to his own determent.

The younger takes everything as a suggestion and is willing to see through the consequences of his own choices.


They are still young (ES) but honestly, I worry way more about my older one than the younger one. The younger one is more "trouble" and requires more hands on and explanation and active parenting but he'll be ready to make his own educated choices and make them well far younger than his older sibling. The older one has a harder time self advocating or understanding that just because something is "required" doesn't make it right or right for him.
Anonymous
Post 09/05/2021 09:54     Subject: How often does a typical kid end up in the office? What for?
Anonymous wrote:At my kid’s high school they just send the school cop aka “resource officer” to the classroom

For example, when my son argued with the substitute teacher that his regular teacher let him keep his earbuds in while doing independent work, they sent the cop to take him out of class into the hallway. I was never called, only heard about it a year later.

My friend’s 9th grade son had a similar experience when he refused to wear his shoes in class.


DP. What happens after this? Are they allowed to come back after, e.g., 5 min?
Anonymous
Post 09/05/2021 09:25     Subject: Re:How often does a typical kid end up in the office? What for?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I have 4 kids. Oldest in college, youngest in middle school. From my observation. "Most" kids never end up in the principal's office. A small percentage of kids end up in the office a couple of times and the consequences work and they clean up their act and don't end up there again. An even smaller percent of kids are there often. One of our kids has an IEP for anxiety and we have had a LOT of visits to the office. During one meeting with the VP the very kind and patient Vice Principal told us that he spends 10% of his time with 90% of the students and 90% of his time with 10% of the students. Of that 10% about half are there because they caused a problem and half are there because they suffered the problem. We have had 2 kids who fall in the "never" group, 1 that fell into the 2x in the office in middle school and one that is in the office often.


Came here to say basically this. Looking at a mean tells you nothing with something like this. It's a bimodal curve with probably 50-75% of kids collectively accounting for 0% of the disciplinary visits, and 5-10% of kids accounting for the vast, vast majority.

I was a kid who, over 13 years and when they'd send kids more often, was never once in the office once. That's most kids. DH was one of those kids that went, I think, twice. That's a significant minority. My brother was in there multiple times per week. That's fairly rare.

The mean is much less useful than the mode with something like this.

How did your brother turn out? Did he care that he went? Meaning, did he care deep inside and have any reflection on it, or did he not mind?
Anonymous
Post 09/03/2021 19:13     Subject: Re:How often does a typical kid end up in the office? What for?
I have 2 boys ages 10 and 12 and they have never been in the office.
Anonymous
Post 09/03/2021 17:44     Subject: How often does a typical kid end up in the office? What for?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My kids- never. Well behaved and respectful. (we have gotten it home about too much talking). A kid in one of their classes often goes. It’s usually the kids with poor impulse control. They refuse to follow the rules, disrespectful to the teacher, spit, kick kids, use profanity, etc.


How do you manage to raise such well behaved kids? Not a sarcastic question.


How? She makes sure they have good impulse control.


Thank you. That is such an insightful answer.


Parents have little control over that. She just got lucky. Good job!
Anonymous
Post 09/03/2021 17:00     Subject: Re:How often does a typical kid end up in the office? What for?
Anonymous wrote:I have 4 kids. Oldest in college, youngest in middle school. From my observation. "Most" kids never end up in the principal's office. A small percentage of kids end up in the office a couple of times and the consequences work and they clean up their act and don't end up there again. An even smaller percent of kids are there often. One of our kids has an IEP for anxiety and we have had a LOT of visits to the office. During one meeting with the VP the very kind and patient Vice Principal told us that he spends 10% of his time with 90% of the students and 90% of his time with 10% of the students. Of that 10% about half are there because they caused a problem and half are there because they suffered the problem. We have had 2 kids who fall in the "never" group, 1 that fell into the 2x in the office in middle school and one that is in the office often.


Came here to say basically this. Looking at a mean tells you nothing with something like this. It's a bimodal curve with probably 50-75% of kids collectively accounting for 0% of the disciplinary visits, and 5-10% of kids accounting for the vast, vast majority.

I was a kid who, over 13 years and when they'd send kids more often, was never once in the office once. That's most kids. DH was one of those kids that went, I think, twice. That's a significant minority. My brother was in there multiple times per week. That's fairly rare.

The mean is much less useful than the mode with something like this.
Anonymous
Post 09/03/2021 16:58     Subject: How often does a typical kid end up in the office? What for?
My now 6th grader had a teacher in 1st who would send him there almost every week, unbeknownst to me at that. He would tell me about it maybe 2-3 times that year. I was also volunteering a lot in the classroom.
Fwiw it was a high farms/ESOL school. I only realized how it impacted him when he transferred to a 10/10 school with an emphasis of SEL and told me how he never once went to the office that year. It was heartbreaking.
Also he was sent for minor infractions like talking or laughing
Anonymous
Post 09/03/2021 16:48     Subject: Re:How often does a typical kid end up in the office? What for?
As a teacher I will say that in most neighborhood schools 95% of kids will never go to the principals office for a behavior reason. 3% will end up there once or twice for some "major" infraction like a fight or stealing a small thing - there will be some punishment and it will never happen again. 2% will be there twice a week. In one school where I worked at the kids had a lot more problems at home, poverty and general life instability. Then, it was more like 90% never, 5% 1 or 2 times, 5% should have moved in.

I agree with the PPs about impulse control. Usually, even the kids who get sent a lot aren't really trying to be bad. There is always the exception to that rule though....
Anonymous
Post 09/03/2021 15:32     Subject: How often does a typical kid end up in the office? What for?
Both of my kids ended up in the office a lot in elementary school. It turned out that they both have ADHD and one also has a high functioning autism diagnosis. We got all this stuff figured out around 3rd grade and now things are much better we school all around.
Anonymous
Post 09/03/2021 15:12     Subject: How often does a typical kid end up in the office? What for?
Anonymous wrote:One of mine - never.

The other one - all the time.


LOL same. My oldest, never, middle child constantly. Birth order is real.
Anonymous
Post 09/03/2021 13:46     Subject: Re:How often does a typical kid end up in the office? What for?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I have 4 kids. Oldest in college, youngest in middle school. From my observation. "Most" kids never end up in the principal's office. A small percentage of kids end up in the office a couple of times and the consequences work and they clean up their act and don't end up there again. An even smaller percent of kids are there often. One of our kids has an IEP for anxiety and we have had a LOT of visits to the office. During one meeting with the VP the very kind and patient Vice Principal told us that he spends 10% of his time with 90% of the students and 90% of his time with 10% of the students. Of that 10% about half are there because they caused a problem and half are there because they suffered the problem. We have had 2 kids who fall in the "never" group, 1 that fell into the 2x in the office in middle school and one that is in the office often.


I forgot to answer the question about how we handle it. We back up the school 100% on consequences. If our kid caused a problem at school they get whatever the school punishment is plus something at home. Typically the consequence at home is a loss of screens plus a written apology to the teacher. The written apology helps us determine if the child actually understood why they got in trouble.


Thanks. How do you handle the emotional toll it takes on you, if it influences you?


The emotional toll is hard. Like another pp commented I dread seeing the school number when the phone rings. Having DH and I on the same page is really important. I have also discovered that time to talk to a friend each week is really important to my mental health. It isn't so much talking about this one child but rather talking to her about challenges and success and hearing about hers makes me able to handle the extra stress of things like calls from the school.