Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's okay to leave a marriage, if it isn't what you want. Even after 20 years. Even after he tried hard to fix the problem. Sometimes it goes that way. Be kind to him, but take care of yourself. You don't have to stay for him.

I did this. We have grown kids and get along fine.

We both remarried.

Anonymous wrote:Did your cheat or get your needs met elsewhere during that time (emotionally and/or physically)? And are you comparing him to those men/experiences and he’s coming up short?

How old are your children? Close to empty nest or many more years at home?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just discovered this term and found this article: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/divorce-busting/200803/the-walkaway-wife-syndrome#:~:text=During%20the%20early%20years%20of,is%20right%20in%20the%20world. and I was shocked at the accuracy. I've been spending years in my marriage asking my spouse for more help, more time together, more engagement in the family as a unit, and asked to go to therapy multiple times over the years. Things finally came to a head right before covid when I basically pleaded with him for more support and he said he is "too ambitious" and could never give me the additional support I need. I felt the marriage was over, completely disconnected from him outside of simple logistical matters, and grieved the end of my marriage and wondered what I would do.

I disagree with the above article.

I would think you told him many times and in many ways what you needed, and he declined to care or notice or adapt. He may have even escalated things for the worse.

Maybe now he is semi-retired or in a less intense job or sports or friends situation, and convenient for him will finally take the time to listen to you or spend time. It's convenient for him.

I don't know. Can you continue on as is? Loveless but OK companions? Travel buddies, stay together for the adult kids? Or is it too insulting for you to do so. I feel you will have parallel lives whether you stay together or not.

Is there anything he has said or can do to make it up for you for the last 10-20 years? Does he do what he says he's going to do?

Yes this checks out — he has a bit more flexible hours than previously and also finally sees how great his kids are and how he wants to do more with them. So yes it has definitely been on his terms/schedule. To be fair he says he wouldn’t have been in a position to invest in and succeed at therapy if we went a few years ago. I understand that but it’s still frustrating that we are doing a lot of this on his terms.

I felt responsible for being the caretaker of the marriage for so long and now I feel responsible if we divorce because it’s “up to me.” Feels like lose-lose sometimes.

To your questions, sometimes I have flickers and thoughts and love that tell me I COULD do those things and live a life with him in this new relationship, even if it means I never fully love him as deeply as I did. But then I think it’s so painful, sometimes even physically painful, to feel like living that life with the deep love. And that I deserve a partner who sees me as an equal, respects my feelings/needs, and whom I love deeply and fully. Those flickers are what are keeping me in right now, hoping that they turn into something larger.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hear you saying he has changed but your feelings have not. Two things: first, you choose your feelings (they are created by your thoughts which are under your control). They are not just something that happen to you. Second, it’s hard to turn around a cruise liner. You were caught in a loop of (justified) negative thoughts for a long time. It’s unrealistic for you to expect to change your thoughts/feelings easily just because circumstances have changed.

Thank you. I have tried to give myself that grace and he has also been very understanding about giving me time to heal. It’s taken him awhile to understand that this went on for years from my perspective compared to his emotional injuries which were more or less confined to my being emotionally absent last year. We’ve unlearned some dysfunctional patterns which is great, I just struggle with how long we should tolerate this painful limbo before deciding it just won’t change. I guess your point is it can take a long time for those potential changes to happen and for a full deep love to return.

I agree that’s true but it’s not a passive thing on your part. You have to choose to love him again. It’s not going to “return” you’re going to choose to make it your reality (or not).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just discovered this term and found this article: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/divorce-busting/200803/the-walkaway-wife-syndrome#:~:text=During%20the%20early%20years%20of,is%20right%20in%20the%20world. and I was shocked at the accuracy. I've been spending years in my marriage asking my spouse for more help, more time together, more engagement in the family as a unit, and asked to go to therapy multiple times over the years. Things finally came to a head right before covid when I basically pleaded with him for more support and he said he is "too ambitious" and could never give me the additional support I need. I felt the marriage was over, completely disconnected from him outside of simple logistical matters, and grieved the end of my marriage and wondered what I would do.

I disagree with the above article.

I would think you told him many times and in many ways what you needed, and he declined to care or notice or adapt. He may have even escalated things for the worse.

Maybe now he is semi-retired or in a less intense job or sports or friends situation, and convenient for him will finally take the time to listen to you or spend time. It's convenient for him.

I don't know. Can you continue on as is? Loveless but OK companions? Travel buddies, stay together for the adult kids? Or is it too insulting for you to do so. I feel you will have parallel lives whether you stay together or not.

Is there anything he has said or can do to make it up for you for the last 10-20 years? Does he do what he says he's going to do?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hear you saying he has changed but your feelings have not. Two things: first, you choose your feelings (they are created by your thoughts which are under your control). They are not just something that happen to you. Second, it’s hard to turn around a cruise liner. You were caught in a loop of (justified) negative thoughts for a long time. It’s unrealistic for you to expect to change your thoughts/feelings easily just because circumstances have changed.

Thank you. I have tried to give myself that grace and he has also been very understanding about giving me time to heal. It’s taken him awhile to understand that this went on for years from my perspective compared to his emotional injuries which were more or less confined to my being emotionally absent last year. We’ve unlearned some dysfunctional patterns which is great, I just struggle with how long we should tolerate this painful limbo before deciding it just won’t change. I guess your point is it can take a long time for those potential changes to happen and for a full deep love to return.

I agree that’s true but it’s not a passive thing on your part. You have to choose to love him again. It’s not going to “return” you’re going to choose to make it your reality (or not).

How many of us who believe in - and have experienced - falling in love would describe the initial "falling in" as a choice, though? I understand, in part, what you are getting at, PP, but in practice and in concept, I think this is a hard idea for people who have married "for love" to grasp.

Oh, I don’t know. Is that true, that falling in love the first time was passive? Weren’t you actively dating and trying to find someone to love? And didn’t you want to fall in love with some suitable guy?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's okay to leave a marriage, if it isn't what you want. Even after 20 years. Even after he tried hard to fix the problem. Sometimes it goes that way. Be kind to him, but take care of yourself. You don't have to stay for him.

Thank you. I am very concerned about hurting him and feel that that urge may be getting in the way of identifying and communicating what I think I want. He’s come a long enough way that he has requested that I be as direct with him as possible and not worry about sparing his feelings, and while I’ve otherwise done that I am really afraid that if I say I want to leave that it will be the wrong choice because of how far we’ve come. Like maybe if I give it a few more months, a year, etc then something will change in me.

Just don't take a permanent solution to a potentially temporary problem. Think ahead. What if one of you gets sick, who will care for you and your kids? What do you want to look back on in 25 years?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hear you saying he has changed but your feelings have not. Two things: first, you choose your feelings (they are created by your thoughts which are under your control). They are not just something that happen to you. Second, it’s hard to turn around a cruise liner. You were caught in a loop of (justified) negative thoughts for a long time. It’s unrealistic for you to expect to change your thoughts/feelings easily just because circumstances have changed.

Thank you. I have tried to give myself that grace and he has also been very understanding about giving me time to heal. It’s taken him awhile to understand that this went on for years from my perspective compared to his emotional injuries which were more or less confined to my being emotionally absent last year. We’ve unlearned some dysfunctional patterns which is great, I just struggle with how long we should tolerate this painful limbo before deciding it just won’t change. I guess your point is it can take a long time for those potential changes to happen and for a full deep love to return.

I agree that’s true but it’s not a passive thing on your part. You have to choose to love him again. It’s not going to “return” you’re going to choose to make it your reality (or not).

How many of us who believe in - and have experienced - falling in love would describe the initial "falling in" as a choice, though? I understand, in part, what you are getting at, PP, but in practice and in concept, I think this is a hard idea for people who have married "for love" to grasp.

Oh, I don’t know. Is that true, that falling in love the first time was passive? Weren’t you actively dating and trying to find someone to love? And didn’t you want to fall in love with some suitable guy?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hear you saying he has changed but your feelings have not. Two things: first, you choose your feelings (they are created by your thoughts which are under your control). They are not just something that happen to you. Second, it’s hard to turn around a cruise liner. You were caught in a loop of (justified) negative thoughts for a long time. It’s unrealistic for you to expect to change your thoughts/feelings easily just because circumstances have changed.

Thank you. I have tried to give myself that grace and he has also been very understanding about giving me time to heal. It’s taken him awhile to understand that this went on for years from my perspective compared to his emotional injuries which were more or less confined to my being emotionally absent last year. We’ve unlearned some dysfunctional patterns which is great, I just struggle with how long we should tolerate this painful limbo before deciding it just won’t change. I guess your point is it can take a long time for those potential changes to happen and for a full deep love to return.

I agree that’s true but it’s not a passive thing on your part. You have to choose to love him again. It’s not going to “return” you’re going to choose to make it your reality (or not).

How many of us who believe in - and have experienced - falling in love would describe the initial "falling in" as a choice, though? I understand, in part, what you are getting at, PP, but in practice and in concept, I think this is a hard idea for people who have married "for love" to grasp.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hear you saying he has changed but your feelings have not. Two things: first, you choose your feelings (they are created by your thoughts which are under your control). They are not just something that happen to you. Second, it’s hard to turn around a cruise liner. You were caught in a loop of (justified) negative thoughts for a long time. It’s unrealistic for you to expect to change your thoughts/feelings easily just because circumstances have changed.

Thank you. I have tried to give myself that grace and he has also been very understanding about giving me time to heal. It’s taken him awhile to understand that this went on for years from my perspective compared to his emotional injuries which were more or less confined to my being emotionally absent last year. We’ve unlearned some dysfunctional patterns which is great, I just struggle with how long we should tolerate this painful limbo before deciding it just won’t change. I guess your point is it can take a long time for those potential changes to happen and for a full deep love to return.

I agree that’s true but it’s not a passive thing on your part. You have to choose to love him again. It’s not going to “return” you’re going to choose to make it your reality (or not).

How many of us who believe in - and have experienced - falling in love would describe the initial "falling in" as a choice, though? I understand, in part, what you are getting at, PP, but in practice and in concept, I think this is a hard idea for people who have married "for love" to grasp.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hear you saying he has changed but your feelings have not. Two things: first, you choose your feelings (they are created by your thoughts which are under your control). They are not just something that happen to you. Second, it’s hard to turn around a cruise liner. You were caught in a loop of (justified) negative thoughts for a long time. It’s unrealistic for you to expect to change your thoughts/feelings easily just because circumstances have changed.

Thank you. I have tried to give myself that grace and he has also been very understanding about giving me time to heal. It’s taken him awhile to understand that this went on for years from my perspective compared to his emotional injuries which were more or less confined to my being emotionally absent last year. We’ve unlearned some dysfunctional patterns which is great, I just struggle with how long we should tolerate this painful limbo before deciding it just won’t change. I guess your point is it can take a long time for those potential changes to happen and for a full deep love to return.

I agree that’s true but it’s not a passive thing on your part. You have to choose to love him again. It’s not going to “return” you’re going to choose to make it your reality (or not).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hear you saying he has changed but your feelings have not. Two things: first, you choose your feelings (they are created by your thoughts which are under your control). They are not just something that happen to you. Second, it’s hard to turn around a cruise liner. You were caught in a loop of (justified) negative thoughts for a long time. It’s unrealistic for you to expect to change your thoughts/feelings easily just because circumstances have changed.

Thank you. I have tried to give myself that grace and he has also been very understanding about giving me time to heal. It’s taken him awhile to understand that this went on for years from my perspective compared to his emotional injuries which were more or less confined to my being emotionally absent last year. We’ve unlearned some dysfunctional patterns which is great, I just struggle with how long we should tolerate this painful limbo before deciding it just won’t change. I guess your point is it can take a long time for those potential changes to happen and for a full deep love to return.