"Fence sitter" who had a kid here. I'm glad I have a child, particularly glad I have *my* particular wonderful child. But I do think the world would be a happier place if fewer people had kids, if parents were conservative (cautious) about how many kids they have vs. what they can handle, and if the default choice was not having kids.

Much of life's tragedy and trauma comes from unwanted children, poverty or bad parenting. Kids deserve to be wanted, loved, cherished and well-cared-for. Most of the parents I know would (imo) be happier with fewer children than they have, though of course that is not meant to denigrate the innocent, beautiful lives they brought into the world. Just to say that their stress level would be lower with fewer children, at least within modern expectations of parenting.

And in a less gloomy sense, life with kids is fulfilling in different ways and full of love, but life without kids ROCKS in ways you just can't replicate with young kids in the house (without spending $$). I love being a mom but I also look forward to the empty-nest days when I can hike and have a quiet, peaceful day with my husband with no one needing anything from us.

Anonymous wrote:The 1950s called. They said "Get over it Dorothy".

+1000000000000000

Anonymous wrote:Honestly having kids should be exclusively for people who WANT to have them. On the rough days with my kids I always know how much I wanted them and that I choose to have them and I’m at peace with how hard it can be. No one should ever be put into 18 years of parenting without choosing it. If your friend knows herself well enough to think that wouldn’t work for her, I applaud her understanding of herself. I think the choice to not have kids is a harder one in many respects and people who go against the majority have probably thought about it more than people who always just wanted children.

Yeah! On the other hand we're facing a population crisis - not enough kids being born. I think it's worth asking what is going on with our society that is making so many of us not want kids. In my case it was partly just, I didn;t want them - but if I didn't have 20 years worth of student loans to pay off, and life were cheaper and easier, I could have leaned the other way. I'm not saying it's all money money money, but we make it really hard for people to have kids in this country - some support could make it a more appealing prospect for those who are on the fence.

In short - I agree with you, and also I do worry what's going to happen when there is a teeny tiny younger generation and we, like, don't have enough food to eat because there's no one left to grow it. So I think maybe we could try to encourage more people to want to have kids, and that wouldn't be a bad thing.

Honestly having kids should be exclusively for people who WANT to have them. On the rough days with my kids I always know how much I wanted them and that I choose to have them and I’m at peace with how hard it can be. No one should ever be put into 18 years of parenting without choosing it. If your friend knows herself well enough to think that wouldn’t work for her, I applaud her understanding of herself. I think the choice to not have kids is a harder one in many respects and people who go against the majority have probably thought about it more than people who always just wanted children.

I’m the childless friend. I am also infertile and can’t afford to adopt. But you wouldn’t know that from speaking to me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ women not wanting kids is unnatural”. No, you’re thinking is wrong.

+1. Sex is pleasurable so nature tricks us into having kids.

I did get the biological urge for kids, but intellectually I wished that I wouldn't. I knew life would be far easier and I would be free if I didn't have kids. But I had to scratch that itch. I love my children more than any other people, but I envy those who do not want kids and don't have them.

I had always been told I would get that urge for kids and never did. But I eventually developed an intellectual/emotional desire to have kids -- it felt like something my life was ready for and like a challenge I would enjoy and was up to. And I was right. It was only after having one kid that I experienced what other women had told me about with those pangs to have a child (in my case, another one).

Interestingly, those pangs were hard to ignore but I once again listened to my brain and reason. My DH and I definitely had the urge for another kid but did not feel like it would be the right choice for our family. So we ignored those feelings and eventually they passed (I really think they were hormonal) and now I'm soooooo glad we didn't have another just because my body was like "yes please I want to be pregnant."

Just another perspective. I do think the hormonal urge to procreate is real, but not everyone experiences it the same way. And it's not the only or best reason to have kids. Nor does having that feeling mean you have to have kids to be happy. Hormones are always temporary -- don't let them trick you into stuff.

Of course I have childless friends! The only difference is, I would never ask them about it - you are SO rude to do that OP. It is disgusting of you to think it's "unnatural" for people to want to remain childless. I would not want to be friends with you, based on how narrow-minded and judgmental you are. Shame on you.

Anonymous wrote:“ women not wanting kids is unnatural”. No, you’re thinking is wrong.

+1. Sex is pleasurable so nature tricks us into having kids.

I did get the biological urge for kids, but intellectually I wished that I wouldn't. I knew life would be far easier and I would be free if I didn't have kids. But I had to scratch that itch. I love my children more than any other people, but I envy those who do not want kids and don't have them.

Anonymous wrote:The other thread got me thinking. I have a couple friend who are successful, financially stable, and in a good healthy marriage. They don’t want kids. The rest of our group does, and we always assumed they would have kids, but they are happy without them. When asked, they always list reasons why they don’t want kids or simply they just didn’t want them. They can easily afford kids and childcare. It seems very unnatural to me as a woman to not want kids. I went back and forth for a little bit and it felt weird picturing my life without kids. I wonder if she is truly happy. I worry they will get bored and have no one else to love. Anyone else have childless friends like this?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The other thread got me thinking. I have a couple friend who are successful, financially stable, and in a good healthy marriage. They don’t want kids. The rest of our group does, and we always assumed they would have kids, but they are happy without them. When asked, they always list reasons why they don’t want kids or simply they just didn’t want them. They can easily afford kids and childcare. It seems very unnatural to me as a woman to not want kids. I went back and forth for a little bit and it felt weird picturing my life without kids. I wonder if she is truly happy. I worry they will get bored and have no one else to love. Anyone else have childless friends like this?

Very few of my pre-kid couple friends want to have kids. Some probably will end up having them, but they all seem very happy with their lives. Some have pets, some travel a lot, some work a ton, people find things that make them happy that aren't kids.

I also don't really worry about whether my friends get bored. That's their problem unless they ask my advice and "have kids" isn't what I'd recommend.

Also, I have it on good authority that people with kids sometimes get bored, too. In fact I hear that going to 18 soccer games a week can be quite tedious.

Nothing against kids. I love my nieces and nephews to the moon. But I have never once wished that I had to spend more time going to and from daycare or all weekend at another kid birthday party.

+1

I was very rarely bored before I had kids, because I could mostly control what I did with my free time. I am sometimes bored playing Candyland or watching Paw Patrol or sitting on the sidelines of a little kids' soccer game or one of the many tedious things that we do with our kids because we love them.

Also, I have no idea if this applies to your friends, but some people who "don't want kids" may have tried having them and it didn't work out for them. They may feel sad or relieved or some combination but they don't necessarily want to share with you, especially if they can sense that you will not understand or be sympathetic (and I can 100% guarantee, OP, that you would not respond in a helpful way to someone in that situation so it makes sense they wouldn't share with you if that were the case).

Kids are hard. I think if I'd had them I would have been a better parent for some kids than others. Sometimes I'm wistful. Sometimes I'm glad I didn't have to find out if I'd be a good or a bad parent and I am happy to have the freedom that comes with not having kids. I still like kids (generally speaking--some I click with better than others) and am happy to hang out with my kid-having friends either with our without their children but if I got the sense that my friend thought I was "unnatural as a woman," not "truly happy," "bored," and with "no one else to love" I would not be friends with that person anymore.

To use the word “unnatural” here is so over-the-top judgmental and heinous. If you want to try and amend your attitude and start being a decent friend, stop asking them. They’ve already answered. And end the subject if others bring it up to make it clear you’ve finally gotten the message and respect their decision.

Good lord, OP. I frankly don't know anyone under the age of 75 who actually believes it's unnatural for a woman not to want kids. You really can't fathom that people want different things in life? You sound like a nosy busybody and a terrible friend.

Op. They don’t want your boring lifestyle.. Open your mind.

Anonymous wrote:The other thread got me thinking. I have a couple friend who are successful, financially stable, and in a good healthy marriage. They don’t want kids. The rest of our group does, and we always assumed they would have kids, but they are happy without them. When asked, they always list reasons why they don’t want kids or simply they just didn’t want them. They can easily afford kids and childcare. It seems very unnatural to me as a woman to not want kids. I went back and forth for a little bit and it felt weird picturing my life without kids. I wonder if she is truly happy. I worry they will get bored and have no one else to love. Anyone else have childless friends like this?

You are not them and they aren't you. People make different life choices and that is ok! Just find something else to do to occupy your thoughts. Just because someone can be parents doesn't mean they should. It is better to recognize that you don't want kids and not be pressured just because one "should". Think of all the kids that have terrible parents and have terrible lives.