Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Science can’t measure or test or prove or disprove anything about religion, God, or eternal life. It doesn’t have the capabilities to do so. It’s beyond the reach of science.

True -- science is limited to the material world. In addition to not being able to disprove God, religion or eternal life, it also can't prove or disprove ghosts, goblins, fairies, monsters or anything else that people imagine.

Religion, fairy tales, mythology and any other stories imagined by humans are beyond the scope of science.

It also can’t prove that rainbows are beautiful or that it’s wrong to rape your mother but we all know those things are true. There are other kinds of knowledge besides Science and direct observation.

Or maybe you see all beauty and morality as a “story imagined by humans.”

Feeling insulted that religion is being lumped in with fairy tales and mythology? Too bad, because the similarity is that they are all based on stories. Lovely stories in some cases and scary stories in other cases, but still stories.

No. I don’t feel insulted any more than I would feel insulted if you told me that there is no such thing as climate change.
It makes me sad, kind of sorry for you, and kind of overwhelmed. You are wrong, you will not open your mind even the smallest bit to the possibility that you are wrong, and you are representative of a large group of people that I, and my children, will have to live with. God, philosophy, and morality are not fairy stories. They are real truths that tell you about yourself and help you figure out how to live your life.

Without a real God, understanding of philosophy, and set of moral beliefs, then everything is kind of up in the air. And then yes, I agree, there is no difference between Qanon and any other way of thinking or being.

- Consider that when your children grow up, they may not believe the same things as you do. If often happens that way.
- Consider that my mind has opened and seen that the lack of gods is more plausible than their existence.
- Consider that your sentence beginning with "Without a real God" is your belief and not a fact.

- When my children grow up, they likely will not see the world exactly the way that I do, but I hope they will have enough humility to recognize that there is a right and a wrong, to try to do right, and to recognize and ask forgiveness when they make a mistake. I wish for them that they were growing up in a world full of people who thought and behaved that way, and, as I said, it makes me a little sad to know that they are going to be living in a world of people, like yourself, who hold no beliefs and just sway in the wind.
- I would be interested to hear about your thoughts on God, what you read, and what you thought when your mind was opened to that plausibility. I’m not sure that there is anyone alone who hasn’t had the experience of not believing, so you will forgive me if I find that less interesting.
- It is not a scientific fact, but it is a logical argument. If you do not believe that there is any one set of moral codes that all of humanity should follow, and you are a complete moral relativist, then you see any one set of beliefs as valid as any other set of beliefs. If you believe that there is a set of moral codes that all of humanity should follow, then you DO believe that there are truths that exist outside the realm of science and observable fact. (I’m not saying that this means that God exists, just that you cannot say that lack of observable proof means “not God.” You need more. Very real and important truths can exists outside the realm of scientific scrutiny.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Science can’t measure or test or prove or disprove anything about religion, God, or eternal life. It doesn’t have the capabilities to do so. It’s beyond the reach of science.

True -- science is limited to the material world. In addition to not being able to disprove God, religion or eternal life, it also can't prove or disprove ghosts, goblins, fairies, monsters or anything else that people imagine.

Religion, fairy tales, mythology and any other stories imagined by humans are beyond the scope of science.

It also can’t prove that rainbows are beautiful or that it’s wrong to rape your mother but we all know those things are true. There are other kinds of knowledge besides Science and direct observation.

Or maybe you see all beauty and morality as a “story imagined by humans.”

Feeling insulted that religion is being lumped in with fairy tales and mythology? Too bad, because the similarity is that they are all based on stories. Lovely stories in some cases and scary stories in other cases, but still stories.

No. I don’t feel insulted any more than I would feel insulted if you told me that there is no such thing as climate change.
It makes me sad, kind of sorry for you, and kind of overwhelmed. You are wrong, you will not open your mind even the smallest bit to the possibility that you are wrong, and you are representative of a large group of people that I, and my children, will have to live with. God, philosophy, and morality are not fairy stories. They are real truths that tell you about yourself and help you figure out how to live your life.

Without a real God, understanding of philosophy, and set of moral beliefs, then everything is kind of up in the air. And then yes, I agree, there is no difference between Qanon and any other way of thinking or being.

- Consider that when your children grow up, they may not believe the same things as you do. If often happens that way.
- Consider that my mind has opened and seen that the lack of gods is more plausible than their existence.
- Consider that your sentence beginning with "Without a real God" is your belief and not a fact.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Science can’t measure or test or prove or disprove anything about religion, God, or eternal life. It doesn’t have the capabilities to do so. It’s beyond the reach of science.

True -- science is limited to the material world. In addition to not being able to disprove God, religion or eternal life, it also can't prove or disprove ghosts, goblins, fairies, monsters or anything else that people imagine.

Religion, fairy tales, mythology and any other stories imagined by humans are beyond the scope of science.

It also can’t prove that rainbows are beautiful or that it’s wrong to rape your mother but we all know those things are true. There are other kinds of knowledge besides Science and direct observation.

Or maybe you see all beauty and morality as a “story imagined by humans.”

Beauty and even morality are in the eye of the beholder. Certainly there are things that can't be proven by science that are valuable -- that is not the issue.

Yes, science is not the only kind of "knowledge" but it's the only kind that can be proven. Religion is valuable to some people, and to others it is not. Please don't try to make it something it's not.

There are many religions, some with beliefs that are in conflict with other religions. People believe what they want to - not necessarily what is "accurate" according to science.

Ahh...if morality is in the eye of the beholder, then what is your issue with QAnon? What makes your version or morality any more valid than what they believe?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Science can’t measure or test or prove or disprove anything about religion, God, or eternal life. It doesn’t have the capabilities to do so. It’s beyond the reach of science.

True -- science is limited to the material world. In addition to not being able to disprove God, religion or eternal life, it also can't prove or disprove ghosts, goblins, fairies, monsters or anything else that people imagine.

Religion, fairy tales, mythology and any other stories imagined by humans are beyond the scope of science.

It also can’t prove that rainbows are beautiful or that it’s wrong to rape your mother but we all know those things are true. There are other kinds of knowledge besides Science and direct observation.

Or maybe you see all beauty and morality as a “story imagined by humans.”

Feeling insulted that religion is being lumped in with fairy tales and mythology? Too bad, because the similarity is that they are all based on stories. Lovely stories in some cases and scary stories in other cases, but still stories.

No. I don’t feel insulted any more than I would feel insulted if you told me that there is no such thing as climate change.
It makes me sad, kind of sorry for you, and kind of overwhelmed. You are wrong, you will not open your mind even the smallest bit to the possibility that you are wrong, and you are representative of a large group of people that I, and my children, will have to live with. God, philosophy, and morality are not fairy stories. They are real truths that tell you about yourself and help you figure out how to live your life.

Without a real God, understanding of philosophy, and set of moral beliefs, then everything is kind of up in the air. And then yes, I agree, there is no difference between Qanon and any other way of thinking or being.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Science can’t measure or test or prove or disprove anything about religion, God, or eternal life. It doesn’t have the capabilities to do so. It’s beyond the reach of science.

True -- science is limited to the material world. In addition to not being able to disprove God, religion or eternal life, it also can't prove or disprove ghosts, goblins, fairies, monsters or anything else that people imagine.

Religion, fairy tales, mythology and any other stories imagined by humans are beyond the scope of science.

It also can’t prove that rainbows are beautiful or that it’s wrong to rape your mother but we all know those things are true. There are other kinds of knowledge besides Science and direct observation.

Or maybe you see all beauty and morality as a “story imagined by humans.”

Feeling insulted that religion is being lumped in with fairy tales and mythology? Too bad, because the similarity is that they are all based on stories. Lovely stories in some cases and scary stories in other cases, but still stories.

One has nothing to do with the others.
Are you really trying to link Jesus to Q-Anon? Don’t be absurd

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It also can’t prove that rainbows are beautiful or that it’s wrong to rape your mother but we all know those things are true. There are other kinds of knowledge besides Science and direct observation.

Or maybe you see all beauty and morality as a “story imagined by humans.”

We can observe both rainbows and moral and aesthetic judgments. We know they both exist. So, fail. Fail real bad.

We can observe white light refracting into separate wavelengths that our eyes and brains perceive as different colors, but that’s not what we mean when we say “a rainbow is beautiful.”

And I am not sure that I would agree that you can observe moral judgement. If there is anything that seems like “just a belief,” it’s moral judgement.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Science can’t measure or test or prove or disprove anything about religion, God, or eternal life. It doesn’t have the capabilities to do so. It’s beyond the reach of science.

True -- science is limited to the material world. In addition to not being able to disprove God, religion or eternal life, it also can't prove or disprove ghosts, goblins, fairies, monsters or anything else that people imagine.

Religion, fairy tales, mythology and any other stories imagined by humans are beyond the scope of science.

It also can’t prove that rainbows are beautiful or that it’s wrong to rape your mother but we all know those things are true. There are other kinds of knowledge besides Science and direct observation.

Or maybe you see all beauty and morality as a “story imagined by humans.”

Beauty and even morality are in the eye of the beholder. Certainly there are things that can't be proven by science that are valuable -- that is not the issue.

Yes, science is not the only kind of "knowledge" but it's the only kind that can be proven. Religion is valuable to some people, and to others it is not. Please don't try to make it something it's not.

There are many religions, some with beliefs that are in conflict with other religions. People believe what they want to - not necessarily what is "accurate" according to science.

Anonymous wrote:It also can’t prove that rainbows are beautiful or that it’s wrong to rape your mother but we all know those things are true. There are other kinds of knowledge besides Science and direct observation.

Or maybe you see all beauty and morality as a “story imagined by humans.”

We can observe both rainbows and moral and aesthetic judgments. We know they both exist. So, fail. Fail real bad.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Science can’t measure or test or prove or disprove anything about religion, God, or eternal life. It doesn’t have the capabilities to do so. It’s beyond the reach of science.

True -- science is limited to the material world. In addition to not being able to disprove God, religion or eternal life, it also can't prove or disprove ghosts, goblins, fairies, monsters or anything else that people imagine.

Religion, fairy tales, mythology and any other stories imagined by humans are beyond the scope of science.

It also can’t prove that rainbows are beautiful or that it’s wrong to rape your mother but we all know those things are true. There are other kinds of knowledge besides Science and direct observation.

Or maybe you see all beauty and morality as a “story imagined by humans.”

Anonymous wrote:Science can’t measure or test or prove or disprove anything about religion, God, or eternal life. It doesn’t have the capabilities to do so. It’s beyond the reach of science.

True -- science is limited to the material world. In addition to not being able to disprove God, religion or eternal life, it also can't prove or disprove ghosts, goblins, fairies, monsters or anything else that people imagine.

Religion, fairy tales, mythology and any other stories imagined by humans are beyond the scope of science.

Anonymous wrote:Science can’t measure or test or prove or disprove anything about religion, God, or eternal life. It doesn’t have the capabilities to do so. It’s beyond the reach of science.

Science can’t measure or test or prove or disprove something that doesn't exist. It doesn’t have the capabilities to do so. It’s beyond the reach of science.

Science can’t measure or test or prove or disprove anything about religion, God, or eternal life. It doesn’t have the capabilities to do so. It’s beyond the reach of science.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your premise puts people who believe in Qanon in the same boat as people like Moses Maimonides, Saint Augustine, Martin Luther, Rene Descartes, and Thomas Moore.

One if these groups is a bunch of morons, and the other consists of brilliant thinkers who have contributed significantly to our understanding of the world.

I believe in “religion,” and not Qanon for the same reason I believe in string theory and not flat-earth theories. One of these things seems to me like it is getting close to the truth about the fundamental nature of the universe, even if it’s not completely understood, and the other is a bunch of YouTube videos and blog posts that don’t appear to be the truth about anything. Not even the small, self-focused thing they are talking about.

Plus it's comforting to believe in eternal life, despite there being no scientific basis for it.

Ahh...Thomas Moore, Saint Augustine, and Maimonides believe because it’s “comforting.” The symbol for Christianity is literally the torture device that was used on Jesus and many of those who followed him. It’s not comfortable.

Also, there are things that are true that do not have a scientific basis.
If there aren’t, then what is the point if any philosophy, religious or not? Furthermore, what is the point of any kind of values, morals, or ethics? Why care about gender or racial equality? Why grieve the dead? If human beings are to be boiled down to our biology, then we are nothing more than ants following our biological impulses.

Anonymous wrote:I’m religious and don’t know what that has to do with Qanon or antivaxxers.

Same